Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[Hipster Samurai]

Gord if you haven't yet then answer my 210.

Except that's not what happened. I said I didn't like you because you haven't been scumhunting, that's not a be all end all conclusion; it's what you've done so far that I noticed and don't like, if you start scumhunting and I'll shut up. I NEVER framed it as defending yourself is a legitimate tell. I understand that you were getting hit early on and were defending yourself, but you haven't stepped out of that phase. Right now you and I are just going back and forth because you don't like that I said I didn't like your actions so far. I never said you didn't have the intent to scum hunt when I said I didn't like you, I stated a fact that you weren't doing something I want to see you doing if you are town. My decision on who I vote to uncap comes down to who looks like they are helping town more, and scumhunting is part of that.

What about our scumread on you though? Or what about the questions that I (although I admit not to a great degree, but it's still there) was asking yesturday? You say you'll "shut up" after when we start scumhunting, but at the time that you made this post we already were.

Second paragraph: I'll admit that saying you don't have the intent to scumhunt was harsh at this point, but I want to see you get out of defense mode. You defending yourself is ALL I have to go off for you so far, and it felt like when you attacked me for saying I haven't liked your play you were basically saying I'm not allowed not to like you at this point and shutting me down.

Again, right now we're NOT just defending our selfs. Gheb attacked you because he found your reasoning for your attack on us to be week and opportunistic. If you're interperting Gheb's attack as "over defensiveness," then you're mistaken.

I have no idea how you can be interpreting our attack as "shutting you down." You're allowed your opinion, like everyone else, but just as you have a right to your opinion, we to have a right to not like that opinion. You're going have to explain how "we're shutting you down."

There are other people who aren't scumhunting, and that's why I tried to get opinions from some of those people. including Joey, when I came into the game.

This supports Gheb's point though about you "selectively scumhunting." Why do we get the dislike and these players only the questions?

Third Paragraph: I just want you to scumhunt and get out of defense mode, because your defense mode has been way up since the beginning and that's not helping town. This is my last response to you in paragraph form, I want to get us out of this deadlock and see where you go from here on your interactions with other players and where you go with scumhunting. I don't want this to end up like HP with the tunneling and such I'm going to lay off you and reconsider my read for a bit.

When you say that some of Gord's stances seemed too stupid to be true, are you talking about in his interactions with Ryker?

@Brosuke: I liked Kuz in his interactions with Ryker, and I got the feeling that both of them were feeling each other out and trying to get some kind of read on the other, which they both seemed to do with some degree of success. I also liked that Kuz was willing to engage so vehemently against Ryker even though he's in a precarious position with being incapped, he didn't try to appease Ryker to get him on his good side, which as scum would probably be a good tactic for trying to stay alive considering how influential Ryker is as a player. However, I need more from Kuz, I want more reads and I want to see more scumhunting in general from him.

Again, already off of defense mode. Sorry that I responded with another wall (well, kinda a wall) even though you didn't want to this, but responding to your post point by point helps me keep my thoughts in line.

W.rt. Gord, Gheb was referring to the stances he made against us I believe.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Don't base my alignment off of conflict with Ryker. I don't consider him a big enough threat to go out of my way to appease him. This type of posting is exactly what Samurai is trying to do, though.

Will not be able to give this game attention until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest. Finals are next week and I can't focus on mafia right now.

Pff, please. Why? Because I said that I would want you dead over him when asked to pick between the two of you? Reach harder.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

When I asked you the question that I did, it was mostly to get a feel of your alignment. I kinda had a feel for you being scum, and I wanted to see how you'd respond to my feel. I liked it, and I feel your play's been better so far.

 

[Dooms]

This post alone has made me want to re-read.

I'll have analysis of some people today/tomorrow. I need to catchup and re-read everything.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

I'll say this. Something reeks about Hipster v July.

If I had to guess at this moment in time I'd probably say SvS, but SvT is entirely possible and I still need to form a more concrete read on both players. I'm obviously less worried about Hipster since he's dying toDay anyway but I'm still trying to diagnose what irks me about them both.

I also heavily dislike KevinM

/scumpicks.

Why? Start to back your reads up please.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is day 1.1 Vote Count (7/13)

1. th3kuzinator [0]
2. brosuke [2] JO_OEY, Gorf,
3. Raziek [0]
4. Ryker [0]
5. JO_OEY [1] Rajam,
6. Gorf [1] Ryker,
7. KevinM [1] Brosuke,
8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01) [0]
9. July [2] Hipster Samurai, th3kuzinator,
10. Rajam [0]
11. Circus [2] KevinM, Soupamario,
12. Dark_Horse [0]
13. Soupamario [0]

~

Incap count (most votes)

Th3Kuzinator [3] July, KevinM, Gorf
Hipster Samurai [5] Dark Horse, Hipster Samurai, Ryker, Brosuke, Soupamario,

 

[Hipster Samurai]

I agree on the weak reason to find someone scummy, but wouldn't you say it's also a way to start a game/start discussion, you can look at it like that but you can also look the positives and townie motive of it, i personally thought your 12 was scummy too.

Perhaps. Still though he didn't actually ever say why it was scummy, only that it "reeked." Plus really I thought it was too hard of a stance too soon.

Not that hard, i've already got plenty.

I was asking them about there town read on Kuz, who at the time I believe only had a battle with me and Ryker without much to actually back up what he was saying.

HSamurai, clarify your read on Kuz, you've already put Ryker on a pedastal enuogh.

Again, people were asking me about my read on Ryker. It's not like I went out of my way to praise him.

Anyways, the thing with Kuzi that bothers me is the fact that I find that he has forced interpreted everything we've done so far as scummy. I know that obviously he wants us to die toDay regardless of alignment, but the fact that he prettty much has had us as instant scum for petty reasoning strikes me as unfair. For this half of the hydra, he leans scum (the other half is indifferent to Kuz right now) for this reason.

Also, it would help my read of him if he started to back his stuff up. I can agree with that July vote, but I have no idea where he came from with that KevinM suspicion (note that he stated that he didn't like KevinM before KevinM voted Circus). Without his analysis he's harder to analysis than it should be.

Sounds like a lot of hublah.

I'll let Gheb get to this, since he made that post.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Would agree actually, i thought his post about Ryker was a townie thing indeed, if i knew the actual number that would help but i hope you get the jist.

This hydra agrees with DH being dumb town.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

@Soup: Again I'll let Gheb answer that, but I will like you to expand on what your referring to with the "making excuses" part.

Kuzi's vote on July doesn't really change anything. Other scum reads I have at the moment are leans on Kuzi and (forgive me but this is coming out of the blue) Joey. Kuzi for reasons already stated. Joey because he hasn't taken the incentive to do anything at this point in the game but answer questions and ocassionly do some sideline commentary. For this reason I'm not sensing too much incentive to scumhunt on his part.

Soup can you elaborate on your Joey town read? What's the town intent that you're picking up from him?

Alright cool, time for bed. I gotta get up at 5:30 in the mourning so to leave for Tampa at 6 am. =/

So peace guys, see you all on Sunday.

 

[Circus]

Uncap Th3Kuzinator

Work johns. I've skimmed through the thread to try to catch up, but I'll need to do a better read sometime later if I can find the time. I should be in bed right now as it is.

Kevin calling me out for inactivity and trying to explain why I'm a special case for his attention is hella weird and I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet. His all-the-other-coasters-are-weak/mysteries-to-me logic is not something anybody should be swallowing. If Kevin knows anything about me, he should know that I don't coast, even as scum. And besides that, less active players in general (read: him, usually), are not necessarily scum. He should be intimately aware of these things.

Soup, your 314 is difficult to respond to. Give me a minute to fish all the questions aimed at me out of it.

 

[Circus]

Is this a solid statement or just a mere guess because of the targets? does the Incap targets make you biased towards one side or the other? possibility of one being scum? both town?

It's a statement that has to be fact. Scum have nothing to go on but player reputation, whether it be "this player is a threat" or "this player always looks townie" or "this player is stubborn and I don't want to deal with them this game." My point was that, regardless of how scum had picked to incap last Night, the decision could not have been made based on play relating specifically to this game, which means that neither Kuz nor HipSam were chosen for any reasons more strategic than the examples I gave above. I can't remember why that even needed to be clarified at the time.

My instinct when I read the incaps at the start of the Day was to save Kuz. The play from both he and HipSam so far has backed up that gut feeling. My uncap isn't set in stone, but I'm certainly biased toward Kuz at this point. HipSam might be scum. Pretty confident Kuz is not. Right now.

Intredasting.jpg

I would say i wouldn't shoot either, right now both of them are just flopping egos and being cutthroat with every argument against each other, not once have i seen in this little fight one of them actually agree with a statement but just refute and re-direct it back.

ugly indeed, but what makes you lean Ryker at this point? too leading? too dramatic? talk to me bby.

Too interested in how he's being perceived and too interested in indirectly overselling how town he is. He brought up the fact that scum didn't incap him multiple times at the beginning of the Day, stating that he was surprised he didn't get incap'd and that scum would regret neglecting him. This is potentially him trying to spin a nulltell to look like a towntell—it felt grimy then and it still does.

Not to mention, dat red flag.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'll reply to Gorf then take a break and read up later.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This looks eerily similar to a game that I can't mention where people planned for the scumpick to flip scum and did all this shiz and he flipped town... I think you might remember what I'm talking about.

Okay?

What DOES happen upon a Kuz town flip?

Someone who I deemed to be more likely to flip scum happened to flip town.

Weak.

Actually, iirc, you've been mad weak with a lotta shiz.

Remember last time you called me weak?

Also, call-out without backup? Nice. I don't see where your accusation comes from.

What?

Comprehension must not be your forte.

Hey Brosoup stop giving out such insignificant town reads and try'na pass it off as content.

Unvote Vote Brosuke

You so scumhunt.



Basically, back your **** up or get out.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Okay so Kuz I said I'd find in-thread evidence and I tried but really, it all comes down to gut.

The way he posts, the way he hunts scum. It just drips town to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Rajam you've been online for a pretty darn long time now.

Get to posting.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This looks like total WIFOM to me. I went back and reread the post that you were talking about, and I don't see it. What was it that made you think he's setting up fake distancing, and how is it not WIFOM?

Yes it's WIFOM. The callout is just speculation, it's just how I saw it.

I don't see where you're going with this though.

 

[KevinM]

Unvote; Vote: July

Kevin what are your thoughts on July vs Hipster.

Will get to this either tonight or tomorrow night but for now I have to go to work and then I'm hosting a tournament tomorrow.

v/la 2 days will try and post though.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ryker, I like Kuz more in the Kuz v Ryker because you're basically saying his logic is really flawed and you're getting on him for that, but I liked the logic and agreed with it.

Besides the logic side of it, though, Kuz really isn't giving any evidence behind his stances, like when he said "for reasons already stated" even though the only reasoning he has is "Hipster is scum because he is"... o_O. Yeah... I think I was wrong on choosing the Kuz side of this XD.

1st paragraph: "I like kuz more"

2nd: I don't like kuz

This is practically the definiton of wishy-washy.

Also, I'm far from an everyone pleaser. I promised Ryker I would buy his reads with an action thus I voted Gorf. Besides that, I don't like Gorf, so I guess I'm okay with it.

That said...

This answers one question, and asks a billion more.

Why would you lie to gord? Why would you raise suspicious by flip flopping so quickly? What is there to gain from this?



[

QUOTE=Rajam;13775462]

You must have been really skimming: he was referring to a townie proving his worth to avoid being lynched, which means that the burden of proof lies on him

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Why would you lie to gord? Why would you raise suspicious by flip flopping so quickly? What is there to gain from this?

I didn't lie to Gorf.

What? You think I'm raising suspicion by flip flopping? Maybe you should just read exactly what I posted and it will make sense to you.

I seriously don't see how you didn't see it, so let me help you. Let me tell you, it'll be a shocker.

Spoiler

I was seeing if I could alter July's response

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'll respond (if/when) I come tonight or tommorow (morning/night) when I come home.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man these people misspelling my name with a d instead of an f what the eff is that?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Spoiler

I was seeing if I could alter July's response

I'm calling BS on that one.

Between your original post, and your EBWOP, july had made no change.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

...Huh? I dont follow.

The thing was that i asked ryker n july a q
ryker answered
i stated rykerscum
july answered
ilied

whats the probs here?

 

[Rajam]

Up to post #120

I do have that luxury and I will use it however I want. I will be uncapped over Samurai so I'm not worried about it. Samurai is scum for reasoning already stated. Anything else would be unfounded since there simply isn't enough content for a full read.

Funny that you're grilling me for not giving adequate reasoning for Samurai scum when you've yet to provide anything yourself.

And don't even try to assume a leadership tone in this situation. Just because town has a decision to make doesn't mean you're leading them to a decision.

What reasoning? Up to this point you were basically snowballing from 1 post...

I like Kuz more in Kuz v Ryker.

Don't know if someone asked you later, but... why?

Also, your posts are irrelevant, you don't scumhunt, and after posting some little lines of nothing, you go away... classic scum play

Your scum picks?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Rajam are you going to be playing catch up all game? I remember this being your play in a couple games we've been in together (only one I can note off the top of my head is, iirc, Villains maf but still), and it's just going to be a drawback if you're stuck on old crap...

Also, your posts are irrelevant, you don't scumhunt, and after posting some little lines of nothing, you go away... classic scum play

...that being said I like this.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Okay?


Someone who I deemed to be more likely to flip scum happened to flip town.



Remember last time you called me weak?

Also, call-out without backup? Nice. I don't see where your accusation comes from.


Comprehension must not be your forte.

You so scumhunt.



Basically, back your **** up or get out.

I'll play your game.

It's a feel.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Since Sworddancer isn't here over the weekend I'm going to read up some stuff and see if there's anything for me to respond. I see he has gone into more detail on July and I don't see why more people aren't pressuring her.

I will say that I like DH's points against Xonar. I'm just really not sure whether you can draw a bigger scumtell out of all these inconsistencies [+ the stuff Kevin mentioned earlier] but I have to say that they are getting a bit too numerous to be coincidence in my book.
DH is also right about Rajam's skimming but by now I've learned that this is the usus when he catches up on games [a situation he's regularly in] and it has no bearing on his alignment. He'd skim like that in ToS Mafia as scum and in Superheroes as town. It's a null tell but I think he should provide some better content anyway.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

OK, the one thing that's left open is Soup calling my point "hublah" or something like that and a "blatant excuse" but I don't see where the problem is in that. I was merely clearing up a misunderstanding with DH - of course you can always twist that in the most negative light and call it "a blatant excuse" but that's not exactly conclusive to anything. You can twist it into an anti-town action and call it an "excuse" but you can also twist it into a pro-town action and call it "an honest attempt to get rid of a superfluous problem". I don't see why you'd choose one idea over the other for any reason other than bias tbh.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

And while we're on it I'm also going to respond to the other part of Soup's questions:

Yes, my opinion on Ryker is still the same as the one Sword told you. I can't tell what he's really thinking but dumbtown is almost completely out of the question for me. If he isn't right about the stuff he's giving input on then I'm almost 100% sure he's scum.
Kuz, on the other hand, is a detriment to town, straight-up and anybody who thinks that he should survive toDay given how he's played is ********. The only justification for choosing him over me is if you think I'm scum but that seems to be more of a conformist, opportunistic stance than a well backed-up one at the moment.

July, Xonar and Circus make good lynches toDay I think.

 

[Rajam]

Up to #160

No. I tell you that you are committing a scummy action and that I know how you profess to play and that it will get you lynched in conjuction with further scummy actions. It's a threat, if you didn't catch it.



I don't give a rat's *** about your opinion on the matter, tbh. Explain your reasoning for your decision and answer your question. It gives a solid stance on who you want gone out of the players I mentioned at this moment. It gives me a paper trail to look back at which is NEVER a bad thing. You *****ing about it doesn't change that.

Thanks for actually answering the question in that paragraph though.

I'm quick to dismiss it because it's completely useless to me. It doesn't further anything. It allows you to sit on a null tell and not contribute. No thanks. I really don't care to watch you idle your way through Day 1 with dead end paths.



Gambit implies significant risk. There is none here. Don't misuse the term.

Xonar will post. The man is on a European schedule. I can tell you right now exactly what his response to your question will be regardless of his alignment. That being said, yes, it's completely useless to me. I get much more out of badgering you to actually be useful.

A little strawmanish?

I'm giving myself an out? You're funny. As a matter of fact, I've been sticking my nose into every ongoing conversation at the moment, including your's. It might just be that you're path is a dead end which is just a lovely excuse to sit on a Xonar vote and wait for it to inevitably fail to pan out.

How is it pointing in a different direction scummy? Because it derails from how you want the game to flow? You say that it leads to a null-end, so it would allow KevinM to just sit and do nothing... wouldn't been better to wait a little and confirm the scummy act instead of foresighting it? Anyways, not liking the direction you're conducting the game towards; as per usual you just want the game revolve around you, and so far after 160 posts you got stuck with kuz, Gorf, and now KevM, and you're letting people escape, like Dooms, meanwhile several people hasn't even posted, like July, Raziek, Soupamario... you're not generating helpful discussion if you only focus on 2-3 players, and when someone points in a different direction you discredit them

you vs kuz = Not liking how kuz wants to survive over Hipster by calling him scum based on post #12
you vs KevM = null
you vs Gorf = Not fully convinced by the several posts of Gorf; needs more focus on scumhunting instead of on plain commenting. I like him more than at the beginning though

Dooms = lol-pop-in-pop-out-scum

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'll play your game.

It's a feel.

Scumhunting with a feel?
Really, you gotta point out a post that gives you the scum feel.

And @ Ghebdancer, I don't see inconsistencies, I simply see miscommunication/misinterpretation. Point 'em out, ty.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Really, you gotta point out a post that gives you the scum feel.

Didn't have much time, I was sleeping over my friends house and had just enough time to go through all my mafia games. But this is what I mean:

KevM voices suspicion of you (whether the reasoning be good or bad is not in question). You respond to the pressure, sure, but then in your 208 you bring up the i-think-Ryker's-scum gambit. My feel is that it can easily be a deflection of KevM's pressure and trying to shift onto a totally different aspect of the game. In fact, all the pressure on you that I can remember is met with you responding by just brushing it off, as if it's not even a big deal. And I don't like it.

Unvote Vote Brosuke

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is the mouse-over-spoilers thing disabled? If not then why the eff can't I see 379 without highlighting O.o?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

In fact, all the pressure on you that I can remember is met with you responding by just brushing it off, as if it's not even a big deal. And I don't like it.

All assaults have been so insubstantial that there's basically nothing to defend from.

Like gimme something concrete that isn't just a misinterpretation and I'll totally help you out.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If you're town, aren't all thoughts of scum intent or scumminess "misinterpretations" in your head?

If you're town, aren't all assaults "insubstantial" because they aren't true?

Why is it that, at the least, me, KevM, and Hipster don't see the accusations against you as "misinterpretations" or "insubstantial"? As town, you should wanna make sure that people see that the accusations against you (no matter how bad they may be) are wrong (hell, it should be EASIER if they're bad) so a townie isn't mislynched...

I don't like your play.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

KevM has been basing his assault on a "gambit" I pulled.

Hipster has been basing his assault on a misinterpretation by DH which I already explained.

You have made these posts.

Want me to rephrase that post?

Spoiler

This looks eerily similar to a game that I can't mention where people planned for the scumpick to flip scum and did all this shiz and he flipped town... I think you might remember what I'm talking about.

I don't see this as incriminating. Do you?

What DOES happen upon a Kuz town flip?

Someone who I deemed to be more likely to flip scum happened to flip town. I once again do not see this as incriminating. Do you?

Weak.

Actually, iirc, you've been mad weak with a lotta shiz.

I don't see how I have been weak at all. Could you elaborate?

What?

I do not see how there is an issue with that.

Hey Brosoup stop giving out such insignificant town reads and try'na pass it off as content.

You're twisting my words. I've never tried to pass that off as content.

Unvote Vote Brosuke

I don't see this as incriminating.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lemme get to Dark House

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Brosuke also seems to be suffering with Xisscumdon'task syndrome: his 180 and 184 show no explanation, just thesises.

Point taken.
I'll elaborate after this post.

He also seems to be an everyone pleaser, as he goes from doing what ryker says for him to be doing to thinking ryker is scum.

Resolved.

Xonar, don't be vauge. What did you want to run by me.

Wanted to see how easy it was for you to think if there were actually 2 scum nightkills.

This answers one question, and asks a billion more.

Why would you lie to gord? Why would you raise suspicious by flip flopping so quickly? What is there to gain from this?

Resolved.

I'm calling BS on that one.

Between your original post, and your EBWOP, july had made no change.

Miscommunication/resolved.

 

[July]

Sorry for inactivity but its reading days and finals are coming up, so I'm a little bogged down by drinking. And studying I guess.

Don't base my alignment off of conflict with Ryker. I don't consider him a big enough threat to go out of my way to appease him. This type of posting is exactly what Samurai is trying to do, though.

Will not be able to give this game attention until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest. Finals are next week and I can't focus on mafia right now.

Fair enough. Kuz, read on Brosuke and updated read on Gorf?

Gord if you haven't yet then answer my 210.



What about our scumread on you though? Or what about the questions that I (although I admit not to a great degree, but it's still there) was asking yesturday? You say you'll "shut up" after when we start scumhunting, but at the time that you made this post we already were.



Again, right now we're NOT just defending our selfs. Gheb attacked you because he found your reasoning for your attack on us to be week and opportunistic. If you're interperting Gheb's attack as "over defensiveness," then you're mistaken.

I have no idea how you can be interpreting our attack as "shutting you down." You're allowed your opinion, like everyone else, but just as you have a right to your opinion, we to have a right to not like that opinion. You're going have to explain how "we're shutting you down."



This supports Gheb's point though about you "selectively scumhunting." Why do we get the dislike and these players only the questions?



Again, already off of defense mode. Sorry that I responded with another wall (well, kinda a wall) even though you didn't want to this, but responding to your post point by point helps me keep my thoughts in line.

W.rt. Gord, Gheb was referring to the stances he made against us I believe.

I'm fine with addressing reasons you think I'm scum, but I don't think there were any early questions that I didn't address from your earlier posts. Those just turned into a circular argument about me thinking you were being too defensive instead of scumhunting and you thinking that was an opportunistic stance. I don't have anything else to say on it, I think that you could be overdefensive as town or scum but either way I didn't like it and found you unhelpful, hence why I said "I don't like you" instead of putting you as a scum read. After you started blowing that up, that's when you started to look scummy because of how far you blew it out of proportion.

I did interpret it as over defensive and still do because you have admitted that you were defensive and weren't scumhunting because of your situation, so what I said WAS true; you just blew it up and made it seem like I was trying to get you lynched for it or that I was sure you were scum, which wasn't the case. That was the only way you could assert I was reaching and being opportunistic. Also, even characterizing it as an "attack" on you is reaching; I wanted to see you do more, and weighing you against Kuz it wasn't like "Oh Kuz is town and Hipster is scum", it was "Kuz is at least doing something and making connections, Hipster Samurai is useless right now". At that point you could have been useless town or just scum trying to save themselves, but either way why am I not supposed to weigh that in my consideration of who to uncap?

You were shutting me down by completely taking my dislike of you and instead of considering why I disliked you and if there was town intent behind me wanting to see you stop defending yourself and start scumhunting, you just attacked me as if it was wrong or scummy to do so. Understand that you and Kuz are in a unique position; you need to produce content and show you are helping town or you die, and you weren't producing content. That's also a factor into why you got pressure while other players got questions; if I'm not sure if they are useless town or scum, I have time to pressure them and figure out their reads/intent, I don't HAVE to lynch them toDay if I'm not sure what their reads are, or they haven't made any connections or reads to provide info upon their flip. You don't have that luxury; one of you or Kuz dies toDay whether I think both of you are town or not, so utility is imperative. Kuz was interacting and putting info out there, you weren't.

It's okay, really I wanted to cut down on the walls because I'm in essay writing mode and if I'm presented the opportunity to write a wall of information, I will.

I understand you are out of defense mode now, and I can see you providing reads on other players. I agree with your read on DH, and I understand concerns about Joey.

My big question in still reading you is determining whether your read on me is genuine or not. In some ways it seems like you genuinely thought I was being opportunistic, yet the immediate reaction to my dislike of you is unsettling; the fact of the matter is that things I said got blown out of proportion to intentionally support a scum read on me.


Anyways, other reads:

I don't particularly agree with Circus' reads in his #371, but I understand his reasoning and see good intent in it. I've taken Ryker's posts about how he's surprised he wasn't incapped to be a genuine show of his ego, but I can see Circus' pov.

I've never seen a playstyle like Brosuke's before, it seems to be based on him keeping his read cards close to his chest at all times. One thing that I did notice:

No...

No.

I just have a more solid town read on Hippie than Kuz atm.

It's exactly that.

A feeling.

Scumhunting with a feel?
Really, you gotta point out a post that gives you the scum feel.

And @ Ghebdancer, I don't see inconsistencies, I simply see miscommunication/misinterpretation. Point 'em out, ty.

What is the difference between you supporting your read on Hipster Samurai based on a feel and Gord's feel on you?

I'm going to hold off on feelings about Brosuke/Gord actions til I see how this plays out. I will say that going into the interactions I had a stronger town read on Brosuke than Gord.

Soup's #314 is quite a bit of catch up, but he has also been very open about his reads and I agree with most of his reads atm.

KevinM I liked in the beginning, I'm starting to question that read now. His #305 and his reasons for calling out Circus are shallow to me, it seems like its based on reputation much more than an actual concern that Circus is scum.

Joey, what is your read on Kuz? I've had trouble following your read on him because it seems to have fluctuated quite a bit.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I've decided to skip posts that don't really need commenting on.

Spoiler

Kinda want to vote Brosuke just for the whole can we get a sample mafia role PM..

I've run that gambit like 100 times in open set-ups against weaker players to great success, and after that he went kinda quiet.

Sorta seems like he wanted some easy way to appear townish without having to voice an opinion on anything in the game thus far.

... (rereading)

yeah eff that after a reread I'm definitely gonna start a choo choo over here on the Brosuke line to scum town.

Vote Brosuke

Yeah he basically read everything, and without commenting on anything, he started with voting me. Like, I can see where he's coming from, but I hope you can also see how this vote is basically a good excuse to avoid commenting on big stuff and drop your vote on something.
The thing is; you can't build off of an accusation like this. It's more of something you throw on a case you build later on. Cherry on top thing, ya know?

Then he posts this;

I don't have to comment on two brash people throwing out null tells and WIFOMy thoughts left and right when you guys are not making any progress on the game at hand and instead having an ego war.

I read your stuff and got what I thought was necessary from it, I don't feel the need to comment on it currently.

Brosuke has however struck me on an entirely different chord, why are you so quick to dismiss it... scum got your tongue?

Don't feel the need to comment on it currently. Eh, sure. But I struck a different chord, so he decided to go after me immediately? It's just not the best course of action if you truly want to find scum. You want to provoke a reaction you can work with. Ryker pointed this out too.

Fact: Xonar could slip up and give you something off your bull**** vote.
Fact: I don't really give a **** and would prefer to see you actually doing things that stand a chance of mattering.

I dunno, eventually it seems Ryker discussed a lot of Kevin's stuff already.

But let's go on.

Still keeping my vote on you, I didn't like the entire way you've played today, call it stubborn but after the call-out you came into the day.. told me you wouldn't make that gambit because you're not bad like me (an adhoc argument not acknowledging the fact that you asked for a role PM in an announced semi-open set-up), told us the only people we can have firm reads from information on are uncaps (basic knowledge), and your response to me pointing out the unlikelihood of Rykers initial read of mafia hitting each other you make a silly quote.

You're begging people for stances but you haven't taken a firm one other then that you think there are a number of weak players in the game and that you believe Gorf and myself are a scum team due to Ryker's train of thought but don't agree with his assessment that me and you would be early game distancing because in Ryker's opinion my thoughts on your early game play was scummy.

Honestly this post is just straight out wrong. I literally considered bolding whatever was just illogical and wrong but I really would have to bold everything except a sentence or two.

Anywayyyss

Dark Horse while writing this I decided I should ask you what you're leaning on in the whole incap situation..

Any lean-to on who you would incap.. doesn't have to be based on whats happened so far in game but if you can show me your thought process it would be nice.. you've spent a lot of time talking about the game semantics and not enough scum hunting.

This is kinda off to me. Asking who Dark House would incap? That's not hunting for scum. It just seems aimless. What's gonna grow out of this?

Not only have I used that gambit, it's a fairly common gambit to use.

I felt the need to focus on Xonar to make sure the game wasn't growing stagnant on Ryker's playstyle. I've since commented on other things but if you're going to assume that I will let things that irk me slide under the game without bringing them up because there are things that have happened since then you have a weird way of looking at the game.

Also considering how early it was in the game and how insubstantial the reads Ryker had given us at that point I'd much rather go with something that struck out to me instead of just commenting like a few of the others did with "Ryker is being egotistical and posting erratically, however I am not going to go into detail on why that is bad for town or if I agree/disagree with it"

He has commented on other things? He asked questions that didn't go anywhere. He asked Ryker who to uncap, DH who to incap and stuff like that.

Also, the last bolded sentence.
Well he kinda did that. Except that it didn't derail, but whatever.

Vote Circus

Hey buddy just wondering if you plan on helping town at any point in the game or are you just gonna see how hard you can waste a player slot toDay?

"Let's park my vote somewhere to make it seem like I'm doing something! Why Circus? Why not?!"

[some back and forthing with me that was usually pretty fluffy by him]
[some back and forthing with Kuz that didn't fall well with me, you can probably see why on your own]