Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[KevinM]

He's the secret independent role in this game.

I just can't see where you're coming from with Hippie feeling more townie then Kuz with Hippie's current gameplay

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's exactly that.

A feeling.

 

[th3kuzinator]

But I would like to see your reasoning for 1.

And is this feeling supported by any thread evidence?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Like, his play doesn't look like how scum would play at all.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'll try to search his posts for something more concrete tomorrow.

I feel brain powers fading. I'll probably keep checking the thread but refrain from posting as to not repeat the late-night mafia fiasco in that other game.

 

[KevinM]

Scum wouldn't play super defensive on an incap knowing full well there's another scum faction in the game.. especially if you're other theory is correct that about Kuz being scum (which I don't agree with)

By staying alive even one day as mafia Hippie would increase by a large percent his chance for whichever faction he'd be playing for to have complete and total control of the night kill assuming Kuz died and flipped scum, one of the most important parts of this game for mafia to be concentrating on.

So in that regard playing super defensive early in the day just seems like a knee jerk of knowing how important it would be if he's read lines up with yours.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm not reading Kuz as scum, if you're saying that.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Of course not, I'm obvtown.

It's just a debate over which of us he finds more town.

 

[KevinM]

@Xonar

You said you could see Kuz "fit both of those roles"

in your previous post so excuse me if I would read into it as you're possibly looking into Kuzscum.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Everyone should be looking into KuzScum
and KuzTown
and HippieScum
and HippieTown

cuz one of them will die.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And by on of them, you mean Samurai.

@Xonar: why the vote on Kevin?

@Kevin: Revised read on Xonar.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also unvote Circus he's pretty town man.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Circus is non-existent. Not sure if serious.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

100% serious.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Don't make me drag reasoning for every read out of you man. Why on both him and Kevin?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kevin for dumping his vote on an inactive whom is town allowing him a petty parking spot for his vote.
And before that his laughable excuse for scumhunting.
And gut.

Brainfart. Just remembered Swords is the other half of the Hipster hydra.

Would a scum whom heavily discussed who to incap forget half of one of the best players in the game?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kuz why don't you start telling me more about the people in this game instead of the other way around.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Like Kevin's post look pretty fluffy to me most of the time.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Maybe aimless is a better word?

 

[th3kuzinator]

>Hipster is one of the best players in the game.

Dead.

And it is entirely possible that Cirucs' team incapped me instead and thus didn't even consider Hipster. I see what you're trying to do but that isn't a clear cut enough example to be good WIFOM. Its null and should be treated as such.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

>I think this
"no you're wrong"
>okay

 

[KevinM]

Everyone should be looking into KuzScum
and KuzTown
and HippieScum
and HippieTown

cuz one of them will die.

You told me I'm posting fluff.. so lets lead off with this post

After basing your reads solidly on July saying Kuz could be either one

You come in with this doozy..

Who's posting Fluff again?

Also unvote Circus he's pretty town man.

Absolutely not, I don't think I'm going to allow someone who hasn't posted an entire game a pass to do so for rest of the game and it irks me that you would allow him to do the same.

As for your whole would he really forget 1 half of a strong hydra? How would I know and why would I give his entire D1 a pass because of that?

And by on of them, you mean Samurai.

@Xonar: why the vote on Kevin?

@Kevin: Revised read on Xonar.

I like him betterish now that he's posting but I haven't agreed with most of his posts thus far into the game.. leaning town however I just think his play thus far has been largely unhelpful.

Maybe aimless is a better word?

Have you been reading your last few pages of posts?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Agreed on the Kevin part but what really perturbs me is his callout of Circus for inactivity or wasting a town slot when Soup has yet to even make one post. That and the large inactive spurts from Rajam and DH really don't seem to make Circus all that special.

 

[Dooms]

I don't see any reasoning behind his KevinM vote, and it honestly just looks like a worthless OMGUS vote.

I was also confused as to why he chose Kuz, but after he explained that, it isn't bothering me anymore.

I didn't like his conversation with Kuz, either. I don't see any reason that a townie would out right lie about their stances in a TvS/TvT/SvS situation.

I'd post more, but I'm at a library and preferring to do other things than play mafia .

 

[KevinM]

Agreed on the Kevin part but what really perturbs me is his callout of Circus for inactivity or wasting a town slot when Soup has yet to even make one post. That and the large inactive spurts from Rajam and DH really don't seem to make Circus all that special.

Soup I'm honestly not going to lie didn't even know he was in the game.

Rajam and DH I don't know them as much as players

Circus I know is a strong player and one whom usually makes posts worth reading through and he has yet to post anything substantial..

Calling out weaker players in this situation whom I don't know anything about is foolish, Circus should know better.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Bull you don't know DH as a player you just told Ryker earlier that if you had a shot you'd use it to ensure town had a strong endgame roster and you would shoot DH because of it.

 

[KevinM]

... How does me saying he's a weak player make what I said any less prevalent saying I wouldn't allow Circus to coast because I know he's a strong player.

reaching pretty hard there Kuz

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unvote; Vote: July

 

[th3kuzinator]

There is no reaching going on. Don't bother getting defensive. Circus isn't coasting, he just hasn't posted much. I don't even think he's due for his first prod yet. Why are you playing activity police already?

And you directly said you don't know DH much as a player when you clearly do. This contradiction is irrelevant to your point on Circus.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unvote; Vote: July

Kevin what are your thoughts on July vs Hipster.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

please note that above post is old and not quite up to date, i just wanted people to know i've been keeping notes and trying to compile my thoughts despite having no access.

i also apologize about the quote cluster****.

 

[th3kuzinator]

311 is a blank post. Joey, tell me your read on Kevin.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wait, it's blank?

hold on.

Hi guys, i'm late to the party, catching up and quoting as i read.

@ Anyone good:
Information on playstyles / level of these four?
9. July [0]
10. Rajam [0]
11. Circus [0]
12. Dark_Horse [0]

July is an analytical player who will write you a case even if you ask her for a read, she's fairly good at hiding her alignment but also town-telling easily, a player to watch out for indeed.

Rajam is okay, he's quiet but from his play i've seen from him he plays his role fairly well, he's a backstage player, mild caution to watch out for.

Circus is an overall good player, he's someone to watch out for certainly, i don't have an exact method of reading him so just read his content as whatever he puts out there.

DH tends to get upset easily and is melodramatic about things he is concerned or into, he tends to make really long juvenile posts that could either flop or actually have reason, finding the latter between him being town and scum is usually between his actions.

You shouldn't announce who you uncap yet btw. The other one will just lose his reason to play if you let him know that he's going to die anyway. Also, we should deffo be uncapped, not kuz

Or they should just prove that they are worth the survival

that.

Interesting.

This is your retaliation to the other person being uncapped. It's not really a defense, it's more like a threat.

"Hey guys, don't uncap kuz or i'll give up"

Incap: hipsters

I read it more like HSamurai just making a null statement for no reason, but i agree with your logic here.

That was a serious vote btw. I'm just figuring out if I want them to die by vote or by incap.

I'm running the numbers right now to see whether having one kill or two kills this phase would be better.

You sure show confidence that you won't be incapped or voted, and i would say one kill toDay is better than two kills.

scum have no nightkills, they both select a cap target independently and we vote who we let survive

Alright, thanks for that quick clarification, i didn't read the rules.

No we can't.

Scum uncaps two different people (if they incap the same person, that person just dies). Whichever player receives the most amount of uncap votes will survive when the day phases ends. In addition to this death, our lynch is a second kill.

Strictly speaking probabilities keeping this game's numbers even will enhance town's win percentage quite a bit. This means starting each phase with an even number. Lynching someone other than Gheb and letting the slot die would give us 11 the next day while just lynching Gheb would give us 12. This doesn't have to be done this day phase but sometime before endgame to even out the numbers woul be beneficial.

Personally, I'd love to only lynch Samurai this phase and stick to two every other (unless we have cop results on an incap target or something).

I agree with this post.

One thing that bugs me about lynching and killing the same person is that it allows town to play exactly to what one of the scum team wants, as the scum's cap pretty much means that a scumteam wants them dead.

Brosuke, why would you want a sample mafia role pm?

Capping and voting will become interesting and more useful come later game, especially with scum flips and results from the comparison cop, i think we shouldn't worry about the mechanic and the risk of both right now, just let the game play to itself and discuss how we are going to use it.

that said, (up to this point) i like Kuz and i don't like HSamurai, i would probably be putitng my incap vote on HSamurai if i didn't show up so late.

So far, the only thing that could have informed the incap targets we're seeing toDay is player reputation. One scum team incap'd Kuz because they feel threatened by him, regardless of his alignment. The other scum team did the same to HipSam for the same reason. It doesn't matter if our interests and one scum team's interests temporarily overlap, as long as it nets us dead scum.

Is this a solid statement or just a mere guess because of the targets? does the Incap targets make you biased towards one side or the other? possibility of one being scum? both town?

And if Soup modkills himself then we just helped scum (regardless of alignment; everyone would want soup dead).

very funny Kuz.

And we "help" scum even more if the incap'd player who dies is town and we mislynch. Obviously we're going to try not to kill any townies. My only point is that, in a game like this, "helping scum" is not always the same as "hurting town." By lynching any scum at all, we're naturally helping ourselves and the other scum faction. Just because one scum team wants it doesn't necessarily mean it's something we don't want.

Hm, ok, i see what you're saying here.

That's kinda WIFOMy.

I agree with Gorf here, this is a lot of WIFOM that is making my head hurt.

The only time I would NOT uncap is if the numbers line up in a MyLo situation. It's infinitely better to get the information out there and give up the gain from flips later on when there's more for you to pull from.

I find your argument situational rather than definite truth.

Ryker, you're doing a lot of ranting and raving over a mechanical situation, wouldn't you say to just ignore it for the time being and focus on the bigger stuff such as lynching scum? do you find you will use incaps as a benefit to vote/see scum?

One of the people who is "INcapped".

Why would we only lynch them Joey? Why would we not let them die AND go elsewhere? Show your logical processes.

I thought the deal was we can also lynch and incap a person, the person who is uncapped lives etc.

So i think Ryker is town, he seems to be set on his ways and his arrogance is quite a charm but none the less his motives are townie for the sake of being townie, that is until i get to that Kuz v Ryker thing i skimmed.

it's a titload of WIFOM

mmm yes i agree and the more we talk about it the more i want to ignore that wifom and just try to find scum normally, i find all of that "what if" bull, just that, bull.

Early interaction with Ryker v. Kuz seems pointless as it's just talk about numbers and mechanics, in fact the whole thing is just a giant ego-fest of 'I am right, you are wrong.'

You. In every scenario, including Kuz or HipSam.

Intredasting.jpg

I would say i wouldn't shoot either, right now both of them are just flopping egos and being cutthroat with every argument against each other, not once have i seen in this little fight one of them actually agree with a statement but just refute and re-direct it back.

ugly indeed, but what makes you lean Ryker at this point? too leading? too dramatic? talk to me bby.

As far as alignment, I get a clash-of-heads read. It helps with a town read on you, cuz I'm sure scumRyker wouldn't waste time knitpicking something like that.

I thought about this too.

If it was just between killing one of you two? Then Kuz. You seem to have immediately came into the game to make connections by asking clear cut questions. Kuzi hasn't done this. Instead he just decided that we're scum based off of one post, which he didn't even explain. No matter how you interpret our 12, it is a pretty weak reason to find us scummy. Also, Kuzi is challenging you, but he would do that as scum anyways, especially given the situation he's in, so that's a null point.

I agree on the weak reason to find someone scummy, but wouldn't you say it's also a way to start a game/start discussion, you can look at it like that but you can also look the positives and townie motive of it, i personally thought your 12 was scummy too.

I like Kuz more in Kuz v Ryker.

I would have to disagree with you.

Kuz is def. reading town.

I would have to disagree with you.

How did you guys (Joey / Gord) come to these reads already?

Not that hard, i've already got plenty.

Ryker is turning everything into ultimatums and that his questions have no point to then. They're just whimsical attempts to give the appearance of producing content.

But instead you're a fan of his clear cut questions. Talk about superficial reasoning.

You guys should kiss and make up already, i can't seem to agree with either of you because you just want to dis-credit their play, both of your points don't mean anything unless you can prove it, and right now it's just talking out of your ***.

HSamurai, clarify your read on Kuz, you've already put Ryker on a pedastal enuogh.

KevMo's entrance is okay, i didn't see brosuke that way but W/E

I don't have to comment on two brash people throwing out null tells and WIFOMy thoughts left and right when you guys are not making any progress on the game at hand and instead having an ego war.

I read your stuff and got what I thought was necessary from it, I don't feel the need to comment on it currently.

Brosuke has however struck me on an entirely different chord, why are you so quick to dismiss it ... scum got your tongue?

I like KevinM.

You're mad I'm on your scummate.

Brash, i find Gorf playing more Null than leaning to the other side, why the quick call-out besides them being transparent??

I would've thought that Gorf wouldn't sit there with his finger up his bum. Doesn't match up with the Gorf I know. Your answer was pretty inconsequential other than as something to look back at if you contradict it without good reason.

Hm, yeah i agree Gorf is playing Null but once again, why is he sided with Kuz? can he be solo scum?

Dislike KevMo's need to insist on standing in the back of the class talking with the emo kid rather than give me the stances I want on the people I want to know about. His "draft a strong late game" really is no excuse not to give me them at all.

I didn't mind it, as long as he's making sense and i agree with his effort/find it townie he can play that role all he wants.

Originally Posted by Joey
Why did you rush this? >> '

Mostly to assure I got the right answer, partly cuz I wanted to imitate Ryker.

>Intimidate Ryker
>2011

Ryker flailing. Ryker case bad. Gorf town. Samurai scum.

i agree with all of this.

My post was not meant to be a threat at all. It was actually meant to be the opposite of it but back then I had not realized that the two mafia parties can incap each other. It's not mentioned in the rules and it doesn't make sense in context with the original set-ups [L4S only had one mafia faction and mafia can't kill each other in F & E] so I wrote under the assumption that Kuz and us are both confirmed town - imagine my surprise when I saw people were seriously considering voting me! Since there were no clear rules about inacpping and uncapping in the OP I thought he'd just use the standard F & E game plan with L4S mechanics.

Sounds like a lot of hublah.

I'm not impressed.
Unvote Vote July

Bold play, sell me on it.

That distinction probably affects what you mean in the bolded but whatever, I'll address it anyways. If I came in and you were defending yourself but also asking people for their opinions or giving your thoughts on something like Ryker v. Kuz then I wouldn't have a problem with you. My problem is that you didn't make any effort to comment on anything going on in the thread that didn't deal with survival between you and Kuz.

July seems to be putting up the better argument here.

Kuz v Ryker was dumb, leaning Ryker being town for the moment despite being obnoxious, Kuz needs to start doing something.

Gorf is null-lean town.

July is town, HSamurai still looks like scum to me.

DH idk

KevMo is cool for now.

incap: HSamurai

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That better Kuz?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah I see it. I have no comments on it really, mostly old stuff. Catch up quickly.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm on it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kuzi, what's your read on DH?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Town .

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

HSamurai and July looks TvT at the moment, i understand both of their arguments but i also didn't like HSamurai's blantant excuses at times.

unvote uncap.

Kuz, i see your vote on July right now, could you explain me why it's there? i'm on page 6 40ppp.