FINISHED (yeah?)

[SuSa]

Yeah.... sorry.....I could add it to the OP...............but I'm too lazy right now.

You have no idea how long it took to add up 16 peoples lists...

I may add it tomorrow or something :x after I get back from a tourney.

 

[GemN]

Nah it's okay. I don't see anything mine would change besides the wario matchup.

 

[SuSa]

The Diddy tie...

Awwww, **** it. I'll add it in right now. <_<

 

[o-Serin-o]

Lawl. Do work SuSa.

 

[GemN]

It seems like you never sleep haha. Good work on this.

 

[SuSa]

Sleep? What's that.

PS:
You broke 2 ties, but caused one between Wario. xD

 

[GemN]

Ahh, the classic two steps forward, one step back.

Atleast I did something semi-useful now. =D

 

[Zajice]

I just realized I never posted one. x_x


You still want me to SuSa? It really won't change much...

 

[SuSa]

Sorry, going to deny. :x I'm done with this... we'll do another when we feel enough matchups have changed. XD I was just sad that we had the least amount done... now we have all of them done. <3 lol

 

[Zajice]

I'm surprised we don't have any complete **** match ups though. Seems like Snake should 90:10 at least one character or something. But he doesn't. D:

 

[SuSa]

As mentioned earlier by someone, these values are pretty conservative. We probably have a few 70:30 matchups or better..... but really, I had to go a lot off of personal experience for some of these matchups and some I didn't have a ton of experience in so I didn't want to overshoot. I think a lot of the people felt the same way (many even left the same ratios I put in)

 

[SamuraiPanda]

By the way, the port 4 business is ridiculous. I've said it before and I'll say it again, grenades don't work well in Snake dittos. But I'm not going to bother arguing the point, I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[DZhou]

As mentioned earlier by someone, these values are pretty conservative. We probably have a few 70:30 matchups or better..... but really, I had to go a lot off of personal experience for some of these matchups and some I didn't have a ton of experience in so I didn't want to overshoot. I think a lot of the people felt the same way (many even left the same ratios I put in)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking lol.

 

[Sinz]

By the way, the port 4 business is ridiculous. I've said it before and I'll say it again, grenades don't work well in Snake dittos. But I'm not going to bother arguing the point, I'm just stating my opinion.

My thoughts exactly. You just use your opponents nades and they get instant thrown back and then you punish them. Less grenades is better.

EDIT: Susa is posting. Oh NO.

 

[SuSa]

By the way, the port 4 business is ridiculous. I've said it before and I'll say it again, grenades don't work well in Snake dittos. But I'm not going to bother arguing the point, I'm just stating my opinion.

Grenade grabbing works great. You know what Port 4 does, right?

Thing goes boom during grab.

You don't take knockback.

Works great for mortars/grenades/c4 that randomly go off/mines (rare)

Snake dittos are one of the FEW matchups that port matters.

 

[GemN]

Which puts the port 4 snake in a better position of course...

I would put it at 53:47, but no weird numbers so i rounded up, as it DOES make a difference.

I find it funny how if the port 4 snake is grabbed and a nade blows up nearby, he drops down safely while the other gets blasted up. It's so lame how that happens ><.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Can someone quickly explain why Snake vs ROB is 55:45 Snake's favor? The matchup thread has it 40:60 R.O.B's favor. I also need advice on this matchup because the best player at my college mains ROB.

Thanks

 

[SuSa]

Probably because their matchup thread is outdated.

1) His camping isn't that bad. Originally it was "Oh noes, laz0r blows up grenades!"
2) Relatively easy to read from dthrow (he may escape a regrab if he rolls away though. But since that is his best option, we predict it :x)
3) He has a "ceiling" that I believe HugS was one of the ones to describe. When your opponent knows how to dodge nair, it becomes a pretty useless move. When you learn the disjoint on bair and don't fall for it's gimicks or run into it, it becomes a rather useless move. When you learn to not fall above ROB (usmash) it's a rather useless move. When you learn his glide toss length, you learn to expect the moments he will glide toss. Fsmash was already a rather useless move xD. When you learn to SDI out of dsmash, it doesn't put you in a horrible place anymore. When you learn that ROB's weakness is against people under him, you learn how to juggle him.

Some characters have a move, and while "useless" it has its time and place. However ROB's are simply avoidable and when you avoid them - you don't get punished (EG: airdodge MK's uair, eat a dair).... a ROB shouldn't be getting nair KO's at 70%. Shouldn't be getting you into the air to juggle you with a dsmash, etc.


EDIT:
However ROB does have the tools to gimp Snake (fair, and dair if you cypher at the wrong time, laser, etc.) and while his camping isn't as strong as it used to be, it is still good. His grab game is still something to worry about, and his tilts aren't bad either. He's not really a character Snake should expect to hit much when he's off stage.

 

[AfroQT]

Seriously Snake owns everyone except D3 and MK.
No one beats snake besides those to, best you can hope for is even. Atleast thats my opinion....

 

[Berserker.]

It's kinda sad for Snake that he has no 70:30 or above advantage and his match up with Ganondorf is 60-40 Snake.
I was expecting a 90:10 or 100:0 but that just seems too much but who cares.

Match up chart:
Meta knight 50:50
Wario 50:50
Falco 55:45
Falco 55:45
Diddy 55:45
DDD 50:50(Avoid chain grabs)
Marth 55:45
Game and Watch 60:40
Pikachu 55:45
Olimar 50:50
Ice climbers 60:40
ROB 55:45
Kirby 60:40
Lucario 55:45
ZSS 55:45
Toon Link 60:40
Pit 55:45
Donkey Kong 55:45
Peach 60:40
Luigi 60:40
Fox 60:40
Wolf 60:40
Sonic 60:40
Shiek 60:40
Bowser 65:35
Zelda 65:35
Squirtle 65:35
Ivysaur 70:30
Charizard 60:40
Ike 60:40
Lucas 70:30
Mario 70:30
Ness 65:35
Yoshi 70:30
Samus 65:35
Jiggly 75:25
C. Falcon 80:20
Link 50:50
Ganondorf 90:10

 

[mofo_]

wow never knew we had such close matchup with every char

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Seriously Snake owns everyone except D3 and MK.
No one beats snake besides those to, best you can hope for is even. Atleast thats my opinion....

Olimar says Hi.

 

[mofo_]

Olimar says Hi.

hahaha LOL!

 

[yellowroy]

everything looks good except for olimar. nice though.

 

[AfroQT]

Olimar says Hi.

Olimar is terrible.
The way to fight Olimar is like fighting Dhalsim in a street fighter game.
You hit him once and he literally dies.
His defensive options are so **** ****ty, that who cares if his -OFFENSIVE **** GOES HERE- is good. You hit him once.. it literally leads to his death.

Grenades matter in snake dittos lol. Port however, does not matter at all in snake dittos.
It might have a small effect...but it doesnt really matter. Very rarely will it end up deciding anything important.

Grenades are good to use in snake dittos, but CAMPING is very bad in them.

 

[SuSa]

Having the proper port has won me:

4 out of 7 Snake dittos. (3 lost due to having Port 1... hmm)
^ I really do hate doing the ditto

I will argue against "port doesn't matter". :x

 

[AfroQT]

I highly doubt you won clearly because the port was on your side.
It literally effects nothing in a snake ditto. On some stages i wouldnt even consider being blown away a bad thing. (ESPECIALLY IF YOUR THE ONE BEING GRABBED, AND A GRENADE THROWS YOU AWAY...DEFINITELY BETTER THEN TECH CHASE FTILT).

Port..... /sigh.

 

[gallax]

i like port priority only when the opponent falls into a grab while i walk towards then with a nade. lol. but in snake dittos...port priority really doesnt matter that much. its the tilts that matter. haha.

 

[SuSa]

I'm not going to bother with even arguing my point anymore after this post.

I still feel it matters, and by winning/losing to port I literally meant we got blown up during a grab (my grab specifically) and I won because I already KNEW my C4 would be going off any second. Without port, I would have lost that match.

Escaping multiple times out of grabs because I approached carefully with a grenade (I hate to camp for the most part <_<) and got grabbed for approaching, the grenade saves me from an ftilt, and he still takes the 14~% from the explosion which is the only way you can damage him in a grab - and you can frame trap people into this so if you have the lead and you need to give him damage. Why not do this?. I take knockback, but I don't mind being in the air in a Snake ditto so long as I'm ON stage.

Seeing a mine, and knowing I have the port, dthrowing him into it. Knowing I am safe, rather then me blowing up.

If I have port 1... what... my advantages are.... if we grab at exactly the same time, I get the grab? Woopty ****ing doo

EDIT:
The differences are small. The differences are minute. But when it comes down to it, those differences are advantages. 3+ advantages that your opponent simply does not have due to port.

So yes, I'd say port really ****ing matters. Otherwise you are saying "lawl. advantages don't matter!!!!oneone111!1one11!! :D"

 

[Bladewing]

Snakes grabs are amazing. At port 1 his grabs have more priority, at port 4 he doesn't take knockback from explosions, so in the end it pretty much evens out.

 

[SuSa]

His grabs do not have more priority. But if you just so happen to grab exactly on the same frame that you got grabbed on (eg: They have a 9 frame grab, yours is 8, you input grab 1 frame after them) you will get the grab.

In a Snake ditto, unless both you AND your opponent decided to grab ON THE VERY SAME FRAME - this shouldn't matter.

Read:
This never ****ing happens, and it's happened to me maybe 1 time (against an IC, which I got fsmashed out of my grab anyways) since I started to play Brawl in May 08

And that 1 "bonus" (I'd hardly call it such) doesn't equate to the multiple bonuses received from port 4.

 

[Ken Neth]

Here's another thing you get from port 1 you might have not thought about, and it seems to happen to me a lot...

With port 4 If you upsmash, and then grab the mortar would knock the player out of your grab only giving them 10~% or whatever the mortar does. But if you have port 1, then the mortar doesn't knock them out of the grab, you get the extra 13% from the dthrow, and very possibly you get a ftilt for another 21%.

So in that situation port 4=10~% and port 1=44~%, and it happens often enough for me to consider it a bonus of being 1st port.

Just throwing that out there. I personally don't mind which port I have in snake dittos, but if I had to choose I'd probably take 4th slot.

 

[AfroQT]

It matters slightly...before that post you were making it sound like a huge ****ing deal.
Its not.
It doesnt matter.
Theres advantages to port 1 and 4.
Being blown up during a grab, and being blown up when you get grabbed BOTH have negatives and cons. And winning Ftilt battles because of port is pretty **** nice as well... Just like you said its a advantage. Same with grabs.

But it doesnt matter, it literally matters so little that it will not effect a ditto greatly.

 

[Ken Neth]

I thought ports only changed grab stuff and not ftilt?

 

[gallax]

if you both your ftilts' clink then your next instinct should be to jab, not another ftilt.

 

[AfroQT]

From a range, ftilt beats jab.

 

[SuSa]

Port does not decide ftilts. One person just isn't buffering properly.

Ken, that is an advantage. I can see your point on that. But during parts of the animation as Port 4, you can throw them. They'll take throw damage + mortar damage as Port 4. I find it a negligible advantage. Just time your throws as Port 4 and you gain the same advantage. Plus they take the knockback from the projectile (which is more knockback then pretty much any throw IIRC from my BKB/GKB stuff in the frame data)

 

[Ken Neth]

But a lot of the times when I grab them, the mortar is too close to get the throw in before it hits them. And The timing for that with port 4 is pretty strict IIRC. I don't think ports really do much in snake dittos. Both have their ups and downs.

 

[Berserker.]

I think the port advantage is correct but I don't mind about it.

By the way the match up between Snake and Link is 55:45, it's pretty weird as in a fail tier in just a slight advantage of a high tier but who cares, I get why it's like that

 

[yellowroy]

Olimar is terrible.
The way to fight Olimar is like fighting Dhalsim in a street fighter game.
You hit him once and he literally dies.
His defensive options are so **** ****ty, that who cares if his -OFFENSIVE **** GOES HERE- is good. You hit him once.. it literally leads to his death.

qfft.

guys olimar is no way 60:40

just down throw him. he's probably 40:60 maybe 45:55.