Finally happened...

[choknater]

haha oh wow. Ninja love?

 

[NinjaLink]

Thats that Ninja Love baybee LOL but its just NL. PPl recognize NL as me anyway. To be honest, just leave swastika (name disturbs me as is) alone. He apparently doesnt get it and let him get his normal placing in tourneys. He's in idaho............does any one know any famous smashers from idaho......i guess not. Guess his method works in idaho only.

choknater ur coolies ^_^

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Ok pyle you can act like you never said this or that but.

Yes, sorry for trying to defend myself.

In post #35 you talk about how I can't emulate the talent in a match from may in other matches, and your reasoning is by comparing it to a match in april as shown in post #45. I'm disregarding your attempts of correcting your mistakes in the later post because of the fact that you disregarded me correcting my mistakes in footage when you talked about how you presented "evidence on why I think Naks is bad" in post #38.

Fine, we'll discuss one of your later videos instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DjTsDLZYDE

First thing I think you did wrong - approaching Ike instead of forcing him to come to you first. At that distance, there is absolutely no way he could have punished you for Dins.

Funny, for all the constant criticizing I get about Din's, you do the same thing at 0:19.

WOW AT 0:25! THE EXACT THING YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT BELOW THAT I SHOULDN'T DO, AND YOU'RE DOING IT YOURSELF.

0:28 - I'm not sure if that was a failed edgehog attempt, but that aether could have been easily shielded and followed by a d-smash. At that position, Ike might have been dead from it.

0:35 - GREAT f-smash opportunity.

0:42 - I actually like this dstilt to uptilt but I'm wondering why you chose it instead of up smash. Are you trying to save up smash as a kill move?

0:50- I'm pretty sure you know what you did wrong here.

0:57 - More Din's Fire from the same distance that everyone is trying to chastise me for. The odd thing is that he actually couldn't have punished you for it if you spotdodged properly.

57:-1:01 - This was just bad decision making.

1:05 - Good job, exactly what I said you should do earlier.

1:18 - More stuff that you know what you did wrong.

1:32 - Nice Lightning Heel, sucks that he teched it so well.

1:56 - More Din's from point blank range. You know, it's funny that despite everyone claiming it to be such a punishable attack, he has such a hard time actually hitting you when you defend properly.

2:06 - Point blank Din's again. You could have done a sliding upsmash but you appear to not to like that approach. Any special reason?

2:17 - WHAT A PERFECT CHANCE FOR AN UPSMASH. IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ANY BETTER. WHY DIDN'T YOU USE IT. WHYYYYYYY

2:21 - Absolutely WONDERFUL chance for a ledgehopped lightning heel.

Like I said before, you have your moments of talent, but when I watch your videos, I just want to yell at the screen 'WHY DIDNT YOU DO THAT?! COME OOOOOON! IT WAS SO PERFECT!' You could be winning these matches.



As for DM, you call him stupid in post #58 and you're basing that off of footage from like february and march. Wow that was a long time ago too.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't people improve over time making more up to date videos more accurate than the out of date ones? Hmmm...

You can still think a person is good while finding a certain aspect of his playing style stupid. I'm basing off of RECENT footage of DM. It's always been his style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1d0wHMwTXw

Look at how many Lightning Heels he throws out and gets punished for. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome when he lands one, but I don't think he should be that risky. The rest of his fundamentals are great.

Verbatim from post #58 "Against a good Luigi, it's nearly impossible to do a FW from off stage without getting either edgehogged or Fire uppercutted."
I don't see the word hard anywhere in there, I do see the word impossible though. but fine I guess I forgot to put the word 'nearly' in my last post.

Come on...really?

I'm shocked about this segment of post #70


You were under the impression that Din's leaves Ike dead in the water if you bomb him from off stage instead of popping him up? Why are you talking about 8-11% damage in that situation then? If you deal damage to someone they get hit by it clean and get popped up.

When I wrote this, I had the false assumption that Din's and quickdraw clanked against each other and caused Ike to just fall, stunned. I screwed up, sorry.

You quoted me, you should know the downside. for that 8-11% damage that you just got on him you gave him more aggressive options of returning to the stage, now that he's burning he can throw out aerials and air dodge; as opposed to being commited to quickdraw and being unable to do anything until he either grabs the ledge or lands. The downside is you lose the upside of letting him quickdraw back which leaves him in a position where he's easier to kill than if you din's him. which I already explained in the part you quoted under your question.

This is just something where we have to agree to disagree then.

I say the extra damage is worth it, even if it gives Ike 'more options' to recover. He's going to make it back either way. I feel comfortable defending against Ike from off the stage. You don't, so you want to limit his options.

Her moves that come out faster and last longer are also ridiculously easy to punish when you block them and have just as much lag after you perform them. Zelda has laggy moves Din's fire included.

No, they aren't. Maybe if you're Metaknight she's easy to punish, but Zelda is widely known for having a great defensive game because of the nature of her smash attacks and projectile. I actually rarely saw him punish you for Dins in that match, nothing I couldn't see you spotdodge.

Okay I understand you're saying you'd play differently because the matchup is different and Luigi isn't Ike. LuigiKing has repeatedly demonstrated what the people in this thread are talking about as to why Din's fire is bad in your 9/20 matches. He nAirs Din's and punishes you for it.

No he doesn't. He nairs Din's from off the stage because it's typically more reliable then an air dodge. I hit him with Din's a LOT, because I use Din's Fire a LOT. I even get a few KOs with it.

He also punishes your laggy moves a lot. It's all demonstrated in your own video, the main difference with ike is he needs fewer openings to land the KO because zelda is so light and he's so heavy.

Luigi is completely different from punishing than Ike is though. He is much faster, and has an instant KO option at 50% if he plays his cards right. Luigi's moves are faster and less laggier then Ike's can dream of being. Ike has his jab and a shorthopped b-air, and he's not always in the proper position to do these if you aim and space your techniques right.

To answer your question about spot dodging. there's an animation to spot dodging and you have to wait till you come out of spot dodge to retaliate. Powershielding doesn't take as long and hence your window to punish him requires you to powershield to punish him because you'd likely get jabbed during your retaliation attempt if you tried to spot dodge those properly spaced moves.

A spot dodged down smash is faster then pretty much anything in Ike's arsenal. If Ike spaced himself so you can't punish him, then roll backward. If the moment is inopportune, wait for an opportune moment.

Edit: You're grossly overestimating the difficulty of blocking Zelda's Up smash, holding shield is a lot easier than powershielding and you can still punish her hard for doing it. The same applies to forward smash.

On paper, this is true, but it's different in actual practice. If they shield your f-smash, they are almost always pushed back by it and have a difficult time punishing. The upsmash is also hard to fully shield and punish properly, as her after-lag is very small until she can shield again. Yes, you CAN punish her, but it's much more difficult to punish Zelda for a botched attack then to punish Ike for a botched attack.

Thats that Ninja Love baybee LOL but its just NL. PPl recognize NL as me anyway. To be honest, just leave swastika (name disturbs me as is) alone. He apparently doesnt get it and let him get his normal placing in tourneys. He's in idaho............does any one know any famous smashers from idaho......i guess not. Guess his method works in idaho only.

You let me know when there's a 'famous Idaho tournament' I can prove my skills in. (THIS IS SARCASM!)

I'll make this as plain as I can for you.

NinjaLink, I don't like you. You flaunt your skills and videos around like the greatest thing since sliced bread, when in reality it pales in comparison to the real competitive greats like PC Chris or Fly Amanita. It's not just their skills that make them likable, it's that they have some humility about it as well. We all know you can play, you don't have to beat us over the head with it.

Tyler Durden voice: You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.

Also, 10 chokky <3

 

[GodAtHand]

The only problem I see with you arguing Swas is that from what I know about you (little) it makes it seem like you don't know ANYTHING about ANYTHING. I haven't seen you post videos ever, I haven't seen you give out any advice before, and now the first time I get to have an impression of you its arguing over something ridiculous, and with well respected players who have previously been helpful. This is why I am inclined to agree with Ryko, Naks, and NL.

Words are just words, so you try to Din's, he dodged, whatever! the videos and real experience are what counts and we don't know that you have any merit yet at all...

Just throwing in the opinion of someone who wasn't arguing...

peace all ^_^

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I have videos posted right down the front page. A mere search on youtube of my name should give you all you need to find. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make this seem like a one-sided argument. I said I didn't think NinjaLink's Zelda was exceptional and that the matchup was in Zelda's favor and a lot of people got angry at me for it. You can see a number of people in this topic making various strawman arguments and references to things I didn't say.

I have videos up and I give advice in a number of different boards. I agree with you. Watch my videos, and you'll see that my real experience DOES count.

 

[-Mars-]

Why the f*** is your name swastika if you don't mind me asking.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=swastikapyle&search_type=&aq=-1&oq=

I thought it was kind of obvious, but here you go.

Edit: Also, sorry for snapping at you earlier. I was in a terrible mood.

 

[Luthien]

I said I didn't think NinjaLink's Zelda was exceptional and that the matchup was in Zelda's favor and a lot of people got angry at me for it. You can see a number of people in this topic making various strawman arguments and references to things I didn't say.

Explanation for hostile reactions #1: You belittle people's talent and expect it to go over well with them?

Explanation for hostile reactions #2: The "Zelda ***** Ike" mentality amongst smashers is something Rykoshet, Nakayorz and various other players on this forum have been fighting against for a very long time now. It's been debated for a very long time, and you coming in and saying that "the idea that Ike has the advantage against Zelda is just plain wrong, in my opinion. " sort of sent off the uh-oh alarm for some of us. After hearing that Din's > Ike for like the 30-billionth time, I'm sorry, very few of us have the patience to calmly explain how that is incorrect any more.

-End hostility-

By the way,if you want to see how ineffective Din's really is against Ike, I think the best way is playing Ryko. Not a money match or anything, just try it for kicks. Even if you have to settle for Wifi like I do, he has very little problem dealing with it. I've tried the spam-from-really-far-away strategy against him. He just patiently dances around it waits for you to slip up.

I'm pretty sure Ryko knows the Din's Fire timing better than most Zelda players. The only things I could reccomend using against him less are Farore's (that's a given, but he has a special talent for punishing it) and usmash.

Edit:

I thought you'd NEVER question my credentials instead of replying to my points.

Rofl

I'm sorry, NinjaLink, I really am, but I'm siding with Swastika here. I know tourney placings are important, but at least address his points first (still a bit peeved with a certain AiB Zelda forum moderator).

 

[GodAtHand]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=swastikapyle&search_type=&aq=-1&oq=

I thought it was kind of obvious, but here you go.

Edit: Also, sorry for snapping at you earlier. I was in a terrible mood.

In all honesty I kept spelling swastika wrong. I tried swapstika, swasticka, swaspsticka, and maybe even some others....

Now go look at my vids!

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Explanation for hostile reactions #1: You belittle people's talent and expect it to go over well with them?

I never belittled anyone's talent except for the possibility of Nak, and that was purely for the purpose of examining Ryko's status as a Zelda Killer.

Explanation for hostile reactions #2: The "Zelda ***** Ike" mentality amongst smashers is something Rykoshet, Nakayorz and various other players on this forum have been fighting against for a very long time now. It's been debated for a very long time, and you coming in and saying that "the idea that Ike has the advantage against Zelda is just plain wrong, in my opinion. " sort of sent off the uh-oh alarm for some of us. After hearing that Din's > Ike for like the 30-billionth time, I'm sorry, very few of us have the patience to calmly explain how that is incorrect any more.

I never went as far as to say Zelda ***** Ike, but I do think she has the advantage. I think the only thing we can do is agree to disagree.

-End hostility-

By the way,if you want to see how ineffective Din's really is against Ike, I think the best way is playing Ryko. Not a money match or anything, just try it for kicks. Even if you have to settle for Wifi like I do, he has very little problem dealing with it. I've tried the spam-from-really-far-away strategy against him. He just patiently dances around it waits for you to slip up.

I can't do it, dude. I just can't freaking handle WiFi. It makes me wanna pull my hair out and shout curses when you anticipate a move and press block but the machine can't keep up with you and you get punished anyways.

I'm pretty sure Ryko knows the Din's Fire timing better than most Zelda players. The only things I could reccomend using against him less are Farore's (that's a given, but he has a special talent for punishing it) and usmash.

I hate FW, which is why I almost never use it unless I absolutely have to.

Edit:


Rofl

I'm sorry, NinjaLink, I really am, but I'm siding with Swastika here. I know tourney placings are important, but at least address his points first (still a bit peeved with a certain AiB Zelda forum moderator).

10redrepplies

 

[LuigiKing]

I'm going to stay out of this argument, but I will say one thing. NLs last post was full of so much fail I'm not sure what to say. Assuming someone is a poor player because they live in Idaho shows the comprehension of a four year old. Really, you're making yourself look like a ****.

 

[NinjaLink]

I'm going to stay out of this argument, but I will say one thing. NLs last post was full of so much fail I'm not sure what to say. Assuming someone is a poor player because they live in Idaho shows the comprehension of a four year old. Really, you're making yourself look like a ****.

Well showing confidence about a matchup when u only played but so many ppl doesnt hold much weight in a convo.

And to Swastika. Dont care much that u dont like me. I talk PC quite often. Yea hes cool. Fly Amanita? Reason why u compared me to him other than he beating plank? Never heard of him before that. Nothing against u, but i think some ppl can agree. No one thinks of smash when someone mentions Idaho. If u have good competition, then ok. All im sayin is and what alot of others are saying, U talk with so much confidence about the matchup but u have no standing because no one has heard of u before.

I thought you'd NEVER question my credentials instead of replying to my points.

I've never won any tourneys. I might do better (find some) if I lived in SoCal instead of Idaho. That sadly isn't the case.

By u sayin this, u must not like the comp u have in idaho and rather live in SoCal. Ur pointing out its not good enough for u.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Mmmmm... NinjaLink and Ryko are new yorkers... now that you mention it i always hear about you guys that it's so **** obvious now that you would be...

Why weren't you at the Game Table tourney o.o i wanna play you guys!!!!

 

[NinjaLink]

Mmmmm... NinjaLink and Ryko are new yorkers... now that you mention it i always hear about you guys that it's so **** obvious now that you would be...

Why weren't you at the Game Table tourney o.o i wanna play you guys!!!!

I went to a different tourney. I thought it woulda had a better turnout. How many ppl was at GameTable?

 

[Oh Snap]

zelda has an advantage over ike.

just down+b!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

zelda has an advantage over ike.

just down+b!

truth

*10sheikpwns*

 

[Nakayorz]

Fine, we'll discuss one of your later videos instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DjTsDLZYDE

First thing I think you did wrong - approaching Ike instead of forcing him to come to you first. At that distance, there is absolutely no way he could have punished you for Dins.

Funny, for all the constant criticizing I get about Din's, you do the same thing at 0:19.

0:19 shows what happens when you try to force an approach with din's fire.

WOW AT 0:25! THE EXACT THING YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT BELOW THAT I SHOULDN'T DO, AND YOU'RE DOING IT YOURSELF.

0:28 - I'm not sure if that was a failed edgehog attempt, but that aether could have been easily shielded and followed by a d-smash. At that position, Ike might have been dead from it.

an edgehog wouldn't work in that situation, he landed on the stage, Due to the super armor on startup of aether, chasing with a dair initially at so low is suicide, the din's was to put him at a viable height for a safer dair or fair, failing that I tried to get behind aether and bair him as he lands. The correct response here is to powershield the aether because of the nature of yoshi's island it blasts him off the stage.

0:35 - GREAT f-smash opportunity.

B-reverse nayru's sets up for dair I just messed up the execution of the move

0:42 - I actually like this dstilt to uptilt but I'm wondering why you chose it instead of up smash. Are you trying to save up smash as a kill move?

Had he tripped I would have.

0:50- I'm pretty sure you know what you did wrong here.

0:57 - More Din's Fire from the same distance that everyone is trying to chastise me for. The odd thing is that he actually couldn't have punished you for it if you spotdodged properly.

57:-1:01 - This was just bad decision making.

I was actually trying to FW there but messed up on execution again

1:05 - Good job, exactly what I said you should do earlier.

1:18 - More stuff that you know what you did wrong.

1:32 - Nice Lightning Heel, sucks that he teched it so well.

1:56 - More Din's from point blank range. You know, it's funny that despite everyone claiming it to be such a punishable attack, he has such a hard time actually hitting you when you defend properly.

Poorly spaced on ryko's part there


2:06 - Point blank Din's again. You could have done a sliding upsmash but you appear to not to like that approach. Any special reason?

Front tilt attempt gone wrong, I hit the wrong button, but whatever no johns wouldn't have worked out either way..

2:17 - WHAT A PERFECT CHANCE FOR AN UPSMASH. IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ANY BETTER. WHY DIDN'T YOU USE IT. WHYYYYYYY

This is why. 4:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IppWvqZ_FpI
In hindsight it's not such a bad idea but he normally just shields but he saw I went aerial, I guessed wrong obviously.

2:21 - Absolutely WONDERFUL chance for a ledgehopped lightning heel.

yeah that was me flubbing a ledge jumped b reverse nayru's attempt and not getting anything, tried to compensate with bair but didn't work out, oh well.


When I wrote this, I had the false assumption that Din's and quickdraw clanked against each other and caused Ike to just fall, stunned. I screwed up, sorry.

No projectile does that with the exception of pikmin and Dedede's minions as far as I know. Having been under this misconception reflects that you don't have much exposure to Ike. Why are you trying to act like an authority on a matchup you don't really have experience with?

You quoted me, you should know the downside. for that 8-11% damage that you just got on him you gave him more aggressive options of returning to the stage, now that he's burning he can throw out aerials and air dodge; as opposed to being commited to quickdraw and being unable to do anything until he either grabs the ledge or lands. The downside is you lose the upside of letting him quickdraw back which leaves him in a position where he's easier to kill than if you din's him. which I already explained in the part you quoted under your question.

This is just something where we have to agree to disagree then.

I say the extra damage is worth it, even if it gives Ike 'more options' to recover. He's going to make it back either way. I feel comfortable defending against Ike from off the stage. You don't, so you want to limit his options.


Well if you wanna reset the exchange with it more power to you, down smashing his quickdraw or edgehogging it ends it nice and fast.

Her moves that come out faster and last longer are also ridiculously easy to punish when you block them and have just as much lag after you perform them. Zelda has laggy moves Din's fire included.

No, they aren't. Maybe if you're Metaknight she's easy to punish, but Zelda is widely known for having a great defensive game because of the nature of her smash attacks and projectile. I actually rarely saw him punish you for Dins in that match, nothing I couldn't see you spotdodge.

0:19......

Okay I understand you're saying you'd play differently because the matchup is different and Luigi isn't Ike. LuigiKing has repeatedly demonstrated what the people in this thread are talking about as to why Din's fire is bad in your 9/20 matches. He nAirs Din's and punishes you for it.

No he doesn't. He nairs Din's from off the stage because it's typically more reliable then an air dodge. I hit him with Din's a LOT, because I use Din's Fire a LOT. I even get a few KOs with it.

My mistake he dairs them when he approaches.

He also punishes your laggy moves a lot. It's all demonstrated in your own video, the main difference with ike is he needs fewer openings to land the KO because zelda is so light and he's so heavy.

Luigi is completely different from punishing than Ike is though. He is much faster, and has an instant KO option at 50% if he plays his cards right. Luigi's moves are faster and less laggier then Ike's can dream of being. Ike has his jab and a shorthopped b-air, and he's not always in the proper position to do these if you aim and space your techniques right.


Again you can space Ike's Fair to be nearly unpunishable on block. And spacing zelda's moves leaves you close enough for his sword for him to out space you on it.Luigi's instant KO option at 50% requires him to be right in your face and the hitbox for that is extremely precise if anything it's harder to punish with unless you're suffering from a lot of afterlag on something.

To answer your question about spot dodging. there's an animation to spot dodging and you have to wait till you come out of spot dodge to retaliate. Powershielding doesn't take as long and hence your window to punish him requires you to powershield to punish him because you'd likely get jabbed during your retaliation attempt if you tried to spot dodge those properly spaced moves.

A spot dodged down smash is faster then pretty much anything in Ike's arsenal. If Ike spaced himself so you can't punish him, then roll backward. If the moment is inopportune, wait for an opportune moment.


a stationary spot dodge into down smash will miss a spaced Ike, and please do roll backward and eat a timed dash attack or a spaced quickdraw -> jab combo hitting you as you recover from your roll

Edit: You're grossly overestimating the difficulty of blocking Zelda's Up smash, holding shield is a lot easier than powershielding and you can still punish her hard for doing it. The same applies to forward smash.

On paper, this is true, but it's different in actual practice. If they shield your f-smash, they are almost always pushed back by it and have a difficult time punishing. The upsmash is also hard to fully shield and punish properly, as her after-lag is very small until she can shield again. Yes, you CAN punish her, but it's much more difficult to punish Zelda for a botched attack then to punish Ike for a botched attack.

The push back on Zelda's upsmash on block isn't even half a character length, the stubbiest of arms can hit you. and you're definately still in grab range.

I will say that trying to hyphen smash a grounded opponent on zelda is in general a bad idea unless you mindgamed them into thinking you're going to dash grab them. If you got their shield low before trying it or if they are close to the edge fine, but otherwise expect to get fully shielded and backaired/grabbed/jabbed every time. Maybe Idaho can't resist letting go of their block button early but NY is a different story. Won't be getting away with that unless someone's never fought Zelda before.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

I went to a different tourney. I thought it woulda had a better turnout. How many ppl was at GameTable?

1st prize was in over $100, 3rd was like 25 or something. I dunno second because i diddn't ask and my friend took 3rd. I think Bum took 2nd and Jman took 1st.

There was quite a few people there we were there from 2-11pm. I missed it cus i worked to 5pm which blew. Wes and Bum were there and i'm really happy because i go to friendly Bum at the last second.

There was Melee singles + doubles as well as Brawl singles and doubles+ both had good turn out. I also heard DJ Nintendo was there earlier before i came for the doubles.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I'm really just insanely bored of going through all this so I will say congratulations on such a patriotic post, with all the red, white, and blue.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm really just insanely bored of going through all this so I will say congratulations on such a patriotic post, with all the red, white, and blue.

lol, best thing you said in this whole thread.

 

[Rykoshet]

I'm going to leave it at this honestly, Pyle. You're doing the very same thing that gets all the other zeldas losses: You're imagining ike to be worse than he really is and if there's one thing you do not want to do against a character that can viably kill you at 15%, it's underestimate it. I don't just pull zelda's flaws out of my *** because I want to disregard her.

 

[Mars-]

Pyle you need to get the **** off of Marsula, and start worrying about your own matches. I was watching SwastikaPyle vs LuigiKing 1 and after I saw the first life I saw enough. Stop acting like your good, your some random *** scrub who made a account to post on brawl and things that you are good because of that. Your not.

As for the matches they were very sexy. That last match was filled with sexy kills.

 

[NinjaLink]

Pyle you need to get the **** off of Marsula, and start worrying about your own matches. I was watching SwastikaPyle vs LuigiKing 1 and after I saw the first life I saw enough. Stop acting like your good, your some random *** scrub who made a account to post on brawl and things that you are good because of that. Your not.

As for the matches they were very sexy. That last match was filled with sexy kills.

Thanks ^_^

 

[RedSnowman]

Pyle you need to get the **** off of Marsula, and start worrying about your own matches. I was watching SwastikaPyle vs LuigiKing 1 and after I saw the first life I saw enough. Stop acting like your good, your some random *** scrub who made a account to post on brawl and things that you are good because of that. Your not.

As for the matches they were very sexy. That last match was filled with sexy kills.

Haha Agreedoo

 

[LuigiKing]

You guys have some serious superiority issues here. No one on these boards is pro, so none of you have any bragging rights at all. You guys are being really, really childish. I feel like this thread is a copy paste from an episode of south park. People are being so ridiculous it must be satire, you people cannot be serious...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Oh wow! I really enjoyed the 3rd video NL!
I really liked the 1st kill with the sourspotted LK to Nair and what else can be said about the B-reversed Nayrus' to Dair. It was awesome.

Great vids altogether.

Totally avoiding angry parts of thread, so many flames!

 

[RedSnowman]

You guys have some serious superiority issues here. No one on these boards is pro, so none of you have any bragging rights at all. You guys are being really, really childish. I feel like this thread is a copy paste from an episode of south park. People are being so ridiculous it must be satire, you people cannot be serious...

Lol, take some time to read your own post... I mean you're criticizing our "superiority complex" by coming in here acting like you are superior. Also pro is a very relative term. Anyways... this all started because of Swas talking about a matchup he doesn't have much experience with. That was the real satire. Until he plays a lot of Ike's and gets vids/credibility the discussion is essentially over.

 

[Rykoshet]

I've been pretty plain faced about it. Personally, on a very basic level, it's kind of a no brainer regarding this sort of thing. It's not like I brainwashed every single last zelda i've come across to fear ike, they've all experienced just how annoyingly hard a fight it can be, and I've not beat my chest once throughout the entire discussion. You're perfectly free to hindsight nitpick at each and every mistake made but there are plenty of things that are obviously just well scouted defenses/spacing/reactions because, as mentioned, I know the timing and range of zelda's moveset like the back of my hand. She doesn't have anything on ike, even on paper. In execution it tends to be worse.

 

[choknater]

imo there is a little bit of superiority complex here on the zelda boards

but it's ok i'll let it slide cuz zelda is cute and she deserves to feel that way

 

[SinkingHigher]

Afterall, she is a mother****ing princess.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Afterall, she is a mother****ing princess.

Well said!

10princesses

 

[PK-ow!]

3rd video at 00:56 is **** amazing.

People need to appreciate how fricking hard that must have been practiced, and flawlessly executed it was in that moment.

And last kill was, as the video comments say, "super sexy."
*~*~*~

I think that, so long as ATs continue developing in the way they have now (i.e, "not really," and not drastically), Zelda and Ike will always be an even matchup. They're really quite similar characters, pitted against each other. Ike's recovery troubles are about the difference in weight class.

Ike has all the features Zelda wants to see in an opponent - mediocre mobility, cumbersome attacks, melee moves - but at the same time Ike has this equally 'limp' target, a character who has the size, and the pace of offense, to allow him to throw his own power around.
The only way this could separate (aside from ATs we can't imagine) is if a large difference arises between Zelda's side-B usage and Ike's ability to set up "oops, you lose." K.O.s at 15%. But I think these will stay even.

They're really very similar characters. It becomes defense versus offense, except when Zelda tries to go aggro, where it is then ingenuity against ingenuity.

 

[Nic64]

If you think it's in Zeldas favor give some more reasons than he is "slow". I'm guessing you've never played a good Ike, he has several fast moves with minimal cooldown time and he punishes HARD.

I wouldn't say it's in zelda's favor but I think it's fairly even anyway, not a **** matchup in ike's favor by any means at least. the zelda in the vid you posted got ***** because he ran right into it like 5-10 times every stock, almost everything Ike does aside from his jab is highly punishable, he can and will own you if you attack him with no regard for your own safety, but that has nothing to do with the matchup aside from maybe ignorance of it.