Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Fawriel]

^^^above.
Okay you basically just said everything and less that we said on the last 9 pages. Nothing new or don't have the opinion, don't reply.

Since Wisey already replied intelligently to this:
Creo, I would appreciate if you stopped being such a hypocrite. Almost all your posts add nothing *at all* to the topic ( and I'm not just talking about this one, mind you ). Just a few pages ago you were having a conversation with Numa Dude about off-topic business. Get a grip on reality.

@Mendez: Wait, what? D=

 

[Vali]

If you want a proper sum up:

Since there are already 5 characters representing the Zelda franchise from Melee it is considered that it may be unfair to the other franchises that more than 1 new character from the franchise will be added, but with the highly probable chance that Sheik will be axed and Young Link will be updated with WW style (read: Cell-shaded) then we may see up to 3 new additions (including WW link). The choices from the remaining characters essentially boil down to 4, the 2 companions Tingle and Midna, and the 2 villains Vaati and Skull Kid. I ain't including Zant, unless it's for the most disappointing boss fight ever 'cause im sure you can all agree he was hyped up throughout the game to be such a badass and then turned into some prancing raving looney. Anyway.

Midna

Arguably one of the biggest roles given yet to a non-tri-force wielding character in a Zelda game, Midna has the biggest role in the most recent Zelda, TP, and has amassed a rather large fanbase from it. While having a recent and major role, due to the ending it is very likely that Midna was infact a one-off appearance and her importance to Zelda as a series and a franchise is therefore less important than her role in TP. Should Midna continue as a recurring character then her inclusion in Brawl would probably be almost unquestionable, but if we could see into the future about that we would already know the Brawl roster :D. It is argued that while one-off appearances can be included in Brawl as well as only those that have appeared recently (Sheik), it could also be argued that characters with more appearances would most likely have a greater chance due to recurring characters having a greater importance to the franchise, but also that popularity (which Midna has) can be a moot point (such as Roy's first game being Melee).

Midna's personality is an interesting one, as it has been really quite accurately stated that it is basically "a more extreme version of Navi" and the same could be said about her role, of course with storyline links. I don't believe this lessens her chances though, as even though she can be pretty annoying her fanbase speaks for itself and her character design (with the original fused shadow) is quite stylised.

As for Midna's fighting capabilities, she proves that not only is she capable of fighting (helps Wolf Link to fight in more than an advice way, kicks some *** during cutscenes) but she would have a unique moveset by being able transform her hair into different things like a hand and a spear. However it is also held true that a character never has to fight before to be included in Smash Bros. due to the creative minds of the Smash Bros. team fashioning movesets from nothing but their imaginations (Captain Falcon), so while already being able to fight is certainly a bonus as far as development time and candidatacy is concerned it isn't a huge factor that would stop a candidate from being picked.

It was also highlighted that Midna is also quite worryingly proportionalised in Imp form with having such a massive head. Now while this may not be such a worrying thing with such characters as Kirby added which arent exactly orthodoxly sized, it does bring up at least in my mind a concern that Midna's moveset would be limited by her tiny body. While Kirby among others have more of a flexible form due to starring in multiple games with a look which is usually updated every few games or so, Midna obviously does not have this luxury of a changing shape.

Of course all of this is talking about the Imp form of Midna, the princess idea is pretty rediculous imo as the Imp form is far more original and already developed upon.

As for the Villain vs. Hero argument, i think the fact that Midna is female counter-acts the lack of villains compared with heroes due to the lack of females.

Vaati

Vaati is the villain of the handheld era of Legend of Zelda which obviously werent as popular as the main console games but popular nevertheless. He's some sort of magic user, sorceror Minish guy that plays as the antagonist in The Minish Cap, The Four Swords and The Four Swords Adventure. This makes him the biggest recurring villain besides Ganon and also was voted the 2nd best boss series beside Ganon in a poll by Nintendo Power, which proves that he has a fanbase, and since Ganon is a shoe-in for Brawl, is a very likely villain to be added for Brawl.

If Cell-shaded Link is replacing Young Link then Vaati would provide the suitable villain - hero link for him, yet this also impacts on his chances of appearing due to the fact there is then a lesser need for the handheld series of Zelda to be represented as that is what Cell-shaded Link now represents (PH).

While his race would be nothing special as another humanoid, his style is unique among the possible brawl contenders and so he earns bonus points there even if the stlye is nothing necessarily revolutionary for a magic caster. The fact that he is a magic caster is even more bonus points as in a game like Smash Bros. the whole "sword in your face, punch to the gut and projectile to the groin" approach is currently in effect with very few characters representing magic casters, with Zelda being the foremost one (and hell she ain't used much in her current state in Melee). So far with more sword and melee'ing characters being added there is definitely a hole for magic users as well as villains to be added, which Vaati would fill nicely.

Going against him then would possibly be a lack of a huge fanbase such as Midna has and his importance to the Zelda franchise is not so great due to not appearing in the main games (OOT, MM, WW and TP) despite having appeared 3 times. However it could be very possible he is the enemy of PH which is quite late in development and it has been announced that the main enemy is unlikely to be ganondorf although im sure nothing has yet to be confirmed. Being the sequal to WW, it could mark a very important role for Vaati and thus his inclusion in Brawl would help boost his popularity.

Tingle

My least favourite character of the bunch, I'm personally hoping he doesn't make it in but then again, there are quite a few reasons for him to be included. Overcoming the odds as a 35 year old guy that likes to dress of a fairy and draw maps which he sells for a living while being suspended up high by balloons, he has a fairly large fanbase which largely consists of the Japanese. He's one of the most frequently recurring characters in the Zelda franchise and even has cameo'd in our beloved Smash Bros. and has his own miniature franchise in 2 spin-off games.

Due to his high recurring factor and side-quest/playability in WW he could be considered quite important to the franchise. However others may argue that recurring in minor roles is less important than playing 1 big role, it's merely down to opinion. Since of his popularity in Japan (where you know, the games are made and most of the polls held etc.) he can be perceived as being more important than we would instinctively classify him, but at the same time the Western countries would not be ignored either. His lack of popularity over here is evident in that his spin-off games were infact Japan only releases (1 might be in the process of localisation for a western release, remember reading it in this post/forum somewhere) and it might be the case that Japan sees Tingle included in the game as a Japan-only character (a popular notion for characters like Staffy).

His fighting prowess or style could be questioned as at first it doesn't seem like he really fits into Brawl at least in my opinion. However i do believe that in one of his spin-off outings he does actually fight, and his own unique and personal style would only add to the diversity of Brawl which is emphasised in this one (such as clones kept to a minimum/0).

One thing that highlights Tingle's lack of western popularity was his omission from TP due to the more mature approach taken with it and Tingle would have seemed very out of place. This could mean the redudancy of Tingle from the main line of console games if the series continues in the same direction (after all it was admitted that WW, where Tingle's role was the biggest, had almost killed the franchise) and Tingle could instead be limited to appearing only in the cell-shaded (handheld) games or until his western fanbase grows. Mere speculation on my behalf though.

Skull Kid

The most controversial character of the picks i feel. We have the friendly Skull Kid in OOT with a minor side role whom then takes on the role as the antagonist of MM through Majora's mask unleashing his anger/sadness and finally appearing as a possible cameo in TP. Slated to be unaging, it is highly likely that all 3 iterations of Skull Kid are infact the same Skull Kid and not previously thought the same generic one, the hint/tie between them being Saria's song, but like so many things these are just conclusions drawn from speculation and as mentioned previously it could just be an attempt of reminiscence of the previous games and a generic Skull Kid.

Skull Kid's importance is often his most debated point. Once again it comes down to whether recurrance is important to a franchise or not as Skull Kid plays the previously stated major, minor and cameo. Obviously from this his most important role is in MM and so the form he would take in Brawl would be from this, Majora's mask and all as this would provide him with the unique moveset. For fighting style, a mixture of ragdoll like moves and Majora's Mask's tentacle powers could prove to really bring uniqueness to Brawl and i believe it would be interesting to play. As far as style and personality go, Skull Kid (despite having what could be considered a waning fan base) is considered by many to ooze with style and to the minority that have payed particular attention to him found him to be quite deep emotionally.

The reason for his particularly smaller fanbase in comparison with the other Zelda contenders would be that he suffers from the test of time, since his only major role in MM was 10 years ago and i believe many gave up on his chances for Smash Bros. at least when he wasn't in Melee. However as i stated in a recent post, a small fanbase and old games don't equate to a small chance to be in Smash Bros. since Pit, Ice Climbers and Game and Watch were all retro characters with smaller fanbases. Hell Roy didn't even have a fanbase or a released game, even if he was just a clone marketing ploy :D. The only thing that stops Skull Kid from slipping into "retroness" as part of the Zelda franchise is that he is revived from the cameo in TP and seems to have become a staple of Zelda, possibly proving his importance. For all we know, Skull Kid might make a comeback in the next main Zelda game.

If i missed any key points or brought anything out of context, feel free to let me know.

 

[Deleted member]

Well done with the sum-up, Luke. That's what Stryks should have done... Hopefully it will be helpful for analysis again if it all starts up again...

And Vali. Good Skull kid section, I'll read the rest later.

 

[Creo]

Apparently you don't read my posts because I am not a hypocryte and my posts few pages ago were on topic. Even Stryks can tell you that. Just stfu because you don't know what your talking about.
And Wisey pointed out that people would rather here intelligent facts. repeating what all of us have for the last 5 pages is not intelligent.

 

[Fawriel]

Oh, I don't know what I'm talking about. ****, you owned me there.

By the way, everything's been said anyway, right now people are summing up stuff because nobody wants to read through 30 pages of a bunch of idiots bashing each others' heads over fictional characters with the same arguments occurring all the time.
Now, posting a post replying to a reply telling someone not to post a reply that adds nothing to the topic, I'm not sure how much that contributes...

Now Vali, you get kudos for that reply. That must've taken some time to write.. good job, very well done. Thank you.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

^^^above.
Okay you basically just said everything and less that we said on the last 9 pages. Nothing new or don't have the opinion, don't reply.

Wow, you're an idiot. I was trying to summarize the points people had made over the last few pages, so of course there wasn't anything new. And if you actually read my post instead of just skimming over it, you'd see I actually did put my opinion in some parts. Stop being such a jerk, especially seeing how little you've contribute ever since you've been here (seriously, was there any point in actually posting that)

That said, Vali has outlined it so well that it puts my post to shame XD. Overall, I pretty much agree with what you have said, very nicely done.

 

[strider43]

I think i pissed my pants as i saw this.

 

[Johnknight1]

Hmm...I say Midna has a better chance than Skull Kid soley because a lot of "Zelda fans" hate Majora's Mask (can't admit it's awsome). Since TP is basically the new OOT, that sums up why Midna has a higher chance than SK, and SK played a very minor roll in OOT. MM lack of popularity amonst a lot of "Zelda fans" is what kills SK's chances. Personally, I would be happy with either, but I gotta say Midna's chances are greater.

For Vatti, I say he has a bit more of a chance than SK. Though he is the main villian in 3 LOZ games, they are basically the three worst selling LOZ games. As much as I like him, I say he only has a fair shot. Tingle, on the other hand is a minimally important character. Sure I like him In WW, MM, and FSA, but he isn't nearly as big or important as the other 3. Not to mention, I couldn't see a moveset, while I see a moveset easily for the other 3.

Still, the best chances, in terms of a new LOZ character is WW/cel-shaded Link. Obviously he plays a major roll in 2 LOZ titles (WW, and the upcoming Phantom Hourglass), and I doubt most people here are willing to debate this, considering WW Link has basically has a much better shot at being in Brawl vs. SK, Tingle, and Vatti. Any thoughts=???

@ strider43
Seriously ftw can't sum up how cool he is!

 

[strider43]

^^^ better john?

 

[Numa Dude]

Hmm...I say Midna has a better chance than Skull Kid soley because a lot of "Zelda fans" hate Majora's Mask (can't admit it's awsome). Since TP is basically the new OOT, that sums up why Midna has a higher chance than SK, and SK played a very minor roll in OOT. MM lack of popularity amonst a lot of "Zelda fans" is what kills SK's chances. Personally, I would be happy with either, but I gotta say Midna's chances are greater.

Are you mentally ill? MM is one of if not the most successful game in the entire franchise and it is loved by Zelda fans everywhere.

For Vatti, I say he has a bit more of a chance than SK. Though he is the main villian in 3 LOZ games, they are basically the three worst selling LOZ games. As much as I like him, I say he only has a fair shot. Tingle, on the other hand is a minimally important character. Sure I like him In WW, MM, and FSA, but he isn't nearly as big or important as the other 3. Not to mention, I couldn't see a moveset, while I see a moveset easily for the other 3.

Do you have a source saying those are the three worst selling games in the series? Until I see one I won't believe you. I do sort of agree on Tingle.

Still, the best chances, in terms of a new LOZ character is WW/cel-shaded Link. Obviously he plays a major roll in 2 LOZ titles (WW, and the upcoming Phantom Hourglass), and I doubt most people here are willing to debate this, considering WW Link has basically has a much better shot at being in Brawl vs. SK, Tingle, and Vatti. Any thoughts=???

Cell shaded Link is almost guaranteed I agree.

@ strider43
Seriously ftw can't sum up how cool he is!

No matter how cool he is he probably won't be in.

 

[Johnknight1]

Are you mentally ill? MM is one of if not the most successful game in the entire franchise and it is loved by Zelda fans everywhere.

You would be surprised by the amount of gamers I run into who love OOT, but hate MM. It isn't the most successful, but it definitely is up there in the top 5, at least in terms of units sold.

Do you have a source saying those are the three worst selling games in the series? Until I see one I won't believe you. I do sort of agree on Tingle.

I saw it on wiki, 1 sec...ahh here it is!

tLOZ: 6.5 million units
Zelda II: 4.3 million units
ALTTP: 4.6 million units
LA: 3.8 million units
OOT: 7.6 million units
MM: 3.3 million units
OoA: 3.9 million units
OoS: 3.9 million units
ALTTP/FS: 1.5 million units
WW 3.0 million units
FSA: less than 1 million units
MC: 1.0 million units
TP: 2.1 million units.

Thus ALTTP/FS, FSA, and MC are the 3 worst selling games in the series (even if they sold relatively well for most series). By all means, I like all of the LOZ gmaes, but stats are stats, and I'm not 100% what this means when it comes to Vatti's chances. Still, I think it lowers his chances quite a bit, but how much is debateable. Hmm intresting I thought the hated (but still awsome) Zelda II would do worse, and it turns out MM is the 8th best selling LOZ game=intresting. I never would have guessed that, I guess the numbers show how many people can't except that MM is awsome!

Cell shaded Link is almost guaranteed I agree.

We should all know that, but he's still friggen awsome!

No matter how cool he is he probably won't be in.

Ya, but he'll always be cool! Noone can deny how awsome he is!

Originally Posted by strider43
^^^ better john?

All I got to say is...TMI! Maybe something like "he will own anyone who dares even think about challenging him, or says he's not cool, cuz he's that friggen awsome!"

 

[Numa Dude]

First off you just because some people hated it doesn't mean its not loved by Zelda fans. Second Wikipedia is not always right because people are the ones that submit the stuff.

 

[Vali]

I saw it on wiki, 1 sec...ahh here it is!

tLOZ: 6.5 million units
Zelda II: 4.3 million units
ALTTP: 4.6 million units
LA: 3.8 million units
OOT: 7.6 million units
MM: 3.3 million units
OoA: 3.9 million units
OoS: 3.9 million units
ALTTP/FS: 1.5 million units
WW 3.0 million units
FSA: less than 1 million units
MC: 1.0 million units
TP: 2.1 million units.

Thus ALTTP/FS, FSA, and MC are the 3 worst selling games in the series (even if they sold relatively well for most series). By all means, I like all of the LOZ gmaes, but stats are stats, and I'm not 100% what this means when it comes to Vatti's chances. Still, I think it lowers his chances quite a bit, but how much is debateable. Hmm intresting I thought the hated (but still awsome) Zelda II would do worse, and it turns out MM is the 8th best selling LOZ game=intresting. I never would have guessed that, I guess the numbers show how many people can't except that MM is awsome!

You have to consider re-releases too. OOT has been rereleased once as part of the WW collector's edition and again on the VC (although im not sure if that is counted). Many of earlier Zelda games have been rereleased, not to mention the fact that MM was released in the wake of OOT. I think those figures dont really show much about the popularity of the games except obviously the 3 worst selling and the best 2 or 3, since WW was undeniably less popular than TP.

 

[Stryks]

1) Yet again with the Skull Kid is outdated Midna is more recent argument. Seriously I have had to fight every Midna argument at least twice on this thread so far. Anyway Skull Kid is a classic character that is still appearing while Midna is just a passing fad that probably won't come back. She is in the same position SK was in for melee and he didn't get in so why should Midna? Don't give me that Shiek crap because I have beaten it like 5 times already.

2) Midna's game was longer and she was the companion character of course she has had more screen time, so what. You barely saw adult Zelda in OoT but she still got in. Screen time means nothing as long as their role was important.

3) Just because someone doesn't fight in the games doesn't mean they can't fight at all.

4) Once again screen time means nothing. Skull Kid is the same one every time and it has already been proven on this thread so I won't waste time on it again. No matter what you say it won't change the fact that SK is more important to the series as a whole than Midna and I have already said why countless times.

5) I know that I was just pointing out that they are just as helpful in a fight to Link than Midna is.

6) I never said SK was relevant to the plot of TP.

7) As long as the character matters to the plot screen time is unimportant.

8) It's been proven several times that it is the same one.

9) Now your just ignoring the truth.

10) His support role was in TP not OoT.

11) Nintendo loves to show that the old days haven't been forgotten and by adding SK they could show that they still remember the old 64 days which will forever be Nintendo's greatest era.

12) Skull kid has One major role(MM), one supporting role(TP) and one minor role(OoT) while Midna only has one major role(TP) which makes SK more important than her.

13) First off you burn yourself by saying SK didn't make it into melee because if he didn't and he was in the same situation as Midna(recent major character) than what makes you think she has a chance? MM is one of if not the most popular Zelda titles out there.

14) Yeah Tingle has sort of mixed chances.

15) Even so there are still many character more unique than her.

15) Once again recent and screen time mean nothing and if Link's Uncle has been considered and put on that stupid poll I think they would have thought about SK too don't you think?

16) Stupid Nintendo not supplying enough Wiis.

17) I actually know enough about Midna and her role in TP to form an opinion on her so just drop this.

18) Yes, very easily.

1) and Yet u say the same thing can happen to midna:

In melee they had less time than they had fro brawl, thus with the deadline near they couldnt finish the game lik they whould have wanted, and they added characters that were pretyt much fillers, this AINT the case in brawl cause they have much more time than they had for melee, thus the chances that happens to midna are very slim...

2) Exactly, roles are important, and midnas role was the most impotatn in the game

3) True, but does that do fight take less time in thinking of a moveset, while character like for example fox and falcon had to have movesets from scratch, which take more time...

4) It has never been proven that the skull kid is the same one in every game, which is unlikely, theres a chance the OoT and MM skull kid are the same, with what skull kid says at the end of MM, but highly unlikely that the TP is the same one, having a drastically diferent look, a tad smaller in size I believe, and the fact that TP takes hundreds (not exactly 100 years, miyamoto said hundreds) of years after OoT...

I highly doubt how one sime-big role, one appearance wheres hes playing a flute and a cameo consider a character a character important to the entire series... and no matter what u say it wont change the fact that midna has more of a chance for being more recent, stars in the newest game, and has a big fanbase... dont believe me? look at the rate their chances thread, midna is on the top ten....

5) in a fight the kign was useless actually, and navy and tatl just target the oponents, midna actually fight, by creating the shadow fields and all, hell she even took on god form gnaondorf...

6) ok

7) Yep, midna is important to the plot, but also has screen time, its win-win!

8) No it hasnt, So far I have nto seen PROOF that its the same one, the closest thing ive seen is:

"Skull kid has the same look as the moon, it has to be the same one!"
something like that...

9) OMG then wolf link is OoT link and MM link! he howls the same songs! give me a break... just because he plays sarias song, doesnt mean its the same one, it could be that in the hundreds of years between the gaps of OoT/MM and TP, SOMEONE could have learned the song from the OoT skull kid, I mean, I can learn a song in a day, I bet they can learn a simple song in hundreds of years...

10) Thus his role in OoT was kinda useless...

11) 64 doesnt need rep, more than haf the characters in melee were from 64, the ones that need rep are NES, SNES and GC, 64 had plenty of rep, and aint retro enough to get rep either...

12) Time and time again, appearances mean nothing, and sheik only had one minor role in OoT, look at that she was in melee, hel lskull kid didnt even had such a big role in MM, u just c him in the begining and at the end, when u face the mask, yeah u dont face him, u face tha mask, he aint really the bad guy, being the puppet and all, even the mask said so... u cant consider his role in OoT, u didnt really need him, hell Malo in TP had more of a role that SK in OoT, at 1st u went to save the little guy and the other kids, and to get the magic armor u needed him to get it...

and well a cameo aint really much help either, if u were to combined SK role sin one, it would barely be a match to the big role midna had in TP

13) Ill say it again (2 times in one post hope u dont repeat it)

Melee had less time to be developed than brawl has rite now, melee had what 2 years, and was delayed, and look at what characters we got: pichu, doc, y.link being a clone, skull kid would have been perfect, but due to lack of time, he couldnt be in, its sad really...

Rite now sakurai has had over 2 years now, and all 07 to finish it, thats 3 years or mor eif its delayed, thats more than enough time to add all the characters he wants and avoid clones by giving them unique movesets, we may get 1 or 2 clones, but thats it, point is midna aint in the same situation as SK, because brawl has more time for development athn melee...
MM is one of the most popular zelda games? rite now TP is the most popular, thus midna has a better chance...

14) *Hopin tingle aint in brawl*

15) and Imp from another dimension who is a princess, knows magic, and can use her hair as a weapon, hard to find anything more unique than that in the zelda series...

16) Midna is more recent, is more popular, had the biggest role in (rite now in recent days) the most popular zelda game, and not only that, what we lack in smash are females, she fits the bill, were gonna have way more villains in brawl:

Metaknight (more like a rival, but hes an enemy u face in the game), dedede (hes practically in), ganondorf, mewtwo (if the returns), bowser, bowser jr (highly likely), vaati/zant, ridley, wolf... so on...

Theres only a handful of female characters, and shes perfect for the spot...

17) Umm they released the on on GC *sigh* theres no excuse, u cant judge her if u havent played the game... glad I got my wii on launch XD

18) Cmon I know enough about metaknight, yet Ive never played a kirby game, So I know I can judge him properly, and never do, same with pit, zamus (never played zero mission) and so on... the popular term is: U cant judge a book by its cover...
Hahaha I thought the harry potter book was ognna be uber lame, even though I knew everyting by ifno and movies, yet I read it and liked it, shpws how true that quote is... (FYI I dont read harry potter anymore, only read it when was a kid )

19) Porven time and time again

 

[Wiseguy]

Majora's Mask?

Fair enough.

Well, we got Marth and Roy in Melee before we even knew who they were. So it's possible.

It is possible Tingle will be included. I just think Midna is far more likely.

...I'll give you that, but that's just one instance. Falbi was creepy, not funny, and Fyer always depressed me. Plum is just mean, and the Gorons would've been comedic...if it weren't for their giant, constantly erect nipples.

I think Twilight Princess had its share of funny moments. Other moments that immediatly come to mind are the parrot shopkeeper outside the monkey dungeon, the Yetis and the Zant boss fight. I also think the Gorons added a ton of personality to the game - although the goron elder Gor Coron (who fights you in the sumo wrestling match) should have been forced to wear a bra by the ESRB.

I will grant you that Twilight Princess was a much darker game, story wise, than most Zelda fans are used to. However I, for one, prefer the stories of Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess over the more light hearted Wind Waker. You may feel free to disagree.

You're still on this? What proof? What evidence? Like LostAddict says, 99% of the soundtrack of TP is remixed (sometimes bad remixes) Ocarina music.

I know TP isn't your favorite Zelda Mendez, but is it really necessary to constantly put it down? I loved the music in Twilight Princess. Sure, it payed tribute to some of the tunes from OoT but that's hardly a bad thing.

Also, I know everyone want to preserve their energy, but could you call me Wiseguy and not Wisey? Its only two extra letters, after all.

 

[Johnknight1]

You have to consider re-releases too. OOT has been rereleased once as part of the WW collector's edition and again on the VC (although im not sure if that is counted). Many of earlier Zelda games have been rereleased, not to mention the fact that MM was released in the wake of OOT. I think those figures dont really show much about the popularity of the games except obviously the 3 worst selling and the best 2 or 3, since WW was undeniably less popular than TP.

MM was only re-released in a LOZ: Collcetor's Edition disk, that had OOT, tLOZ, and Zelda II on it as well. OOT was in that, the Master Quest re-release, tLOZ& Zelda II was in CE, a GBA port, and probably a few other ports. LA had one remake for the GBC, while all the others haven't had remakes. Yes TP is more popular than WW (even if I like WW, TP is the best), but TP is an exception. It has been out what, 7 months, and WW been out wat, over 4 years=?

Originally Posted by Numa Dude
First off you just because some people hated it doesn't mean its not loved by Zelda fans. Second Wikipedia is not always right because people are the ones that submit the stuff.

You know I agree with you that just because some people hate it, doesn't mean it isn't loved, but Nintendo has made OOT their poster LOZ game, and left MM in the cold. wiki being right is debateable, but I'm not willing to waste time going to other sites, plus wiki is constanly edited, so I see no reason why it is not primaraly right. I've seen similar stats elsewhere on MM, so I assume the number is close to the actual number of units sold.

By all means, I would love for SK to be in SSBB, but I just don't see it happening, unless Nintendo starts treating it like OOT (MM Master Quest would be awsome!), so I don't see a MM character being in Brawl. If they would have made it, there would be one in Melee, and Nintendo would be treating MM at least half as good as OOT.

 

[Creo]

Wow, you're an idiot. I was trying to summarize the points people had made over the last few pages, so of course there wasn't anything new. And if you actually read my post instead of just skimming over it, you'd see I actually did put my opinion in some parts. Stop being such a jerk, especially seeing how little you've contribute ever since you've been here (seriously, was there any point in actually posting that)

That said, Vali has outlined it so well that it puts my post to shame XD. Overall, I pretty much agree with what you have said, very nicely done.

I am a jerk and your calling me an idiot. And I have contributed a lot more than you have so I don't no what your talking about. And yes there was a point...we were starting slowly to start something anew but your stupid *** brought it back. Now I am being a jerk.

 

[Vali]

TP is an exception. It has been out what, 7 months, and WW been out wat, over 4 years=?.

While yes i agree with you on the point that a game being out longer helps it's sales, i think that TP had the benefit of being heralded as the best launch game of all time on the best selling console of all time where, let's face it, really decent games have yet to really take off. I think by now (around the 7 month mark) a LOT of the people that would have bought it have already bought it as well as a large amount of people that may not have bought it had it not been a launch title. Now when you consider that it's also the only Zelda game to have ever launched simultaneously on multiple platforms, it has a lot going for it as many of the people who couldn't get hold of a Wii might have bought it for Gamecube and might even possibly buy it later for Wii as well to take advantage of the sword swinging and awesome bow aiming that makes the experience that more immersive.

You're bang on about MM being abandoned behind the OOT flagship though, such a shame since i prefered MM, it was just so much fun to play. I'd love nothing more than Nintendo to release a LoZ Compilation set of OOT, MM and WW with updated graphics/sound and the same control scheme as TP, i think it'd sell really, really well and would introduce some of the innovation and classic 64 Zelda to a partially new audience while at the same time making the games better to play.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I am a jerk

Yes, you are. People were wanting a summary so I tried to make one, then you go and criticize my summary for essentially being a summary and saying that I shouldn't post (which isn't the first time you said that to me). Your post was really nothing short of a pointless flame, and you claim you actually contribute to discussions? The fact that you feel you can talk to me in such a way makes you, in every sense of the word, a jerk. Now stop trying to derail this thread and contributing even less than you usually do.

It is possible Tingle will be included. I just think Midna is far more likely.

It's debatable really. Tingle does seem to have an overwhelming popularity in Japan, yet is met quite fiercely outside of Japan (which is why I think we haven't seen any news of Tingle's game getting an international release). I think there was even a survey at one point directed to American gamers on their thoughts on Tingle in response to his negative attention. He'll be in the game in some shape of form, I'm fairly certain of that, but whether it's an upgrade from what he was in melee is harder to decide.

 

[Stryks]

Remember guys tingle was part of the stage in termina, so at some point he [sakurai] must have thought in adding tingle in melee, yet he place him as part of the stage, I doubt he'll add him now, IMO anyway...

 

[Creo]

Yes, you are. People were wanting a summary so I tried to make one, then you go and criticize my summary for essentially being a summary and saying that I shouldn't post (which isn't the first time you said that to me). Your post was really nothing short of a pointless flame, and you claim you actually contribute to discussions? The fact that you feel you can talk to me in such a way makes you, in every sense of the word, a jerk. Now stop trying to derail this thread and contributing even less than you usually do.



Well you only posted the I am a jerk part... what about the rest. I did not say you shouldn't post, I said don't post repeats of what has been said. It was a flame because of your dumb ***! I do actually contribute so stop running your mouth you ****. Just end it.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Tingle wasn't as established back then though, MM was the only game he ad been in before melee (except for possibly OoA, that might have been released beforehand). He's developed a bit and seems to have gained a lot of popularity in Japan since then, so I think his chances are better now than they were around the time of melee.

Edit to Creo: I only had the jerk part because it's the only relevant part of your post. You are the one flaming and insulting me for no reason, and the fact that you failed to acknowledge that my post was a summary just makes you look ignorant. And you aren't contributing at all, every post you have made this last page has been critical or flaming mine. Contributing my ***.

 

[Stryks]

Yeah true, yet I still he just gets a trophy, and gets no where near as a playable character XD

 

[Creo]

Well you got that from my sig and I spelled it wrong. I am sure Nintendo would make a decent attack set for Him. Last time, I didn't say he would be in Brawl before her but has more of a chance because he is more popular amongst people. And his appearences does pwn her because Midna will be a forgotten character and Tingle...no. Plus, Tingle helps in all the games not as a main Like Midna but is an important character. Examples: Wind Waker.

You summed up Skull Kids history. There is way more behind it.
Tatl is better than Midna.
HMS is original. He was an ORIGINAL person in OoT and a main in MM. He was crying over MM because he knew terrible things would happen.
I didn't feel like reading the rest so the stuff I typed, I PWN.
If any Zora, it would be Maiku.

Ok. There was a LoZ called Navi Trackers.

Happy Mask Salesman was a main because do you forget it is his mask(game is based on it), he taught you a song, and is one of the people you always remember.(usually mains)

Skull Kid still has an extensive backround. Not as much but has more than you put it.
Midna is a sorry excuse for help and Navi and Tatl pwn her.

Maiku is the MM Zora playable character.

It is not required to get all the masks or any for that matter. Kafei was not a main. Tingle had a more extensive role then him.

What is this Luke. I am not conrtibuting at all huh. How about read the other pages before talking smack. Now ended.(I didn't want to edit...sorry.)
If he is not a character, he should be and enviroment part again and a trophy.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I said you contributed little, not nothing. And out of all the posts you've made in this thread, those are the only ones that have the slightest bit of contribution? Bravo, my friend, Bravo.

Seriously, stop trying to derail this topic. I keep trying to bring it back on topic but you keep flaming me, so I'm not even going to bother anymore.

 

[Creo]

Tingle wasn't as established back then though, MM was the only game he ad been in before melee (except for possibly OoA, that might have been released beforehand). He's developed a bit and seems to have gained a lot of popularity in Japan since then, so I think his chances are better now than they were around the time of melee.

Edit to Creo: I only had the jerk part because it's the only relevant part of your post. You are the one flaming and insulting me for no reason, and the fact that you failed to acknowledge that my post was a summary just makes you look ignorant. And you aren't contributing at all, every post you have made this last page has been critical or flaming mine. Contributing my ***.

It is nice.(jk)

Yes, you are. People were wanting a summary so I tried to make one, then you go and criticize my summary for essentially being a summary and saying that I shouldn't post (which isn't the first time you said that to me). Your post was really nothing short of a pointless flame, and you claim you actually contribute to discussions? The fact that you feel you can talk to me in such a way makes you, in every sense of the word, a jerk. Now stop trying to derail this thread and contributing even less than you usually do.



It's debatable really. Tingle does seem to have an overwhelming popularity in Japan, yet is met quite fiercely outside of Japan (which is why I think we haven't seen any news of Tingle's game getting an international release). I think there was even a survey at one point directed to American gamers on their thoughts on Tingle in response to his negative attention. He'll be in the game in some shape of form, I'm fairly certain of that, but whether it's an upgrade from what he was in melee is harder to decide.

Okay I only selected three and if you read the posts before it, it was bigger contribution then you think.
Lets see yours above...wow, your great huh.

 

[Johnknight1]

You're bang on about MM being abandoned behind the OOT flagship though, such a shame since i prefered MM, it was just so much fun to play. I'd love nothing more than Nintendo to release a LoZ Compilation set of OOT, MM and WW with updated graphics/sound and the same control scheme as TP, i think it'd sell really, really well and would introduce some of the innovation and classic 64 Zelda to a partially new audience while at the same time making the games better to play.

While I like OOT like .000000000000001% more than MM, MM should get a Master Quest. Seriously, A MM MQ would be better than that OOT MQ (which was pretty darn awsome!). Man, what would be sick is OOT, MM, and WW usingthe Wiimote&Numchuck functions, exactly like TP=uber ownage! How sick would OOT, MM, and WW be using the Wiimoteand Numckuck functions like TP=?

Side Note: The only reason TP isn't higher is because Japan thinks the Wii is a non-gamer system a lot more than we do here in America. Plus on top of it all, they don't want the GC version. Plus, there are a ton of non-gamers who got the Wii, and don' know how friggen awsome, and I'm sure that number I got is off, because I know TP sells are at least 10% higher, and I'll bet the sales for TP will stand tall with the best selling in the series. Also, that stat didn't include the GCN version=ya.

 

[Creo]

I disgress(is that right?) with your statement. I think OoT will just stay at top because it simply outplayed TP with ease.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

wow, your great huh.

Well, if you insist. I guess I can't argue with that.

Now to finally return to the topic at hand. Regarding the sales list on the last page, Vaati's games do seem to have been the least successful, and it doesn't seem to be simply because they are handhelds (both oracle games sold remarkably well, though the fact that they have the same number is a bit odd). That does bring into question just how big his fanbase actually is compared to other characters, as they are significantly lower than average.

And it's a pity that MM is so overshadowed by OoT, though at least it did get a stage in melee. Though it seems slightly doubtful that it will get any recognition in brawl, tough I wouldn't necessarily discount Skull Kid entirely just yet.

 

[Numa Dude]

1) and Yet u say the same thing can happen to midna:

In melee they had less time than they had fro brawl, thus with the deadline near they couldnt finish the game lik they whould have wanted, and they added characters that were pretyt much fillers, this AINT the case in brawl cause they have much more time than they had for melee, thus the chances that happens to midna are very slim...

We have no reason to think SK was even considered for melee and with Midna in a similar situation we have no reason to think more time increases Midna's chances.

2) Exactly, roles are important, and midnas role was the most impotatn in the game

Stop repeating this.

3) True, but does that do fight take less time in thinking of a moveset, while character like for example fox and falcon had to have movesets from scratch, which take more time...

It doesn't really take that much time to make an original moveset for characters who have none.

4) It has never been proven that the skull kid is the same one in every game, which is unlikely, theres a chance the OoT and MM skull kid are the same, with what skull kid says at the end of MM, but highly unlikely that the TP is the same one, having a drastically diferent look, a tad smaller in size I believe, and the fact that TP takes hundreds (not exactly 100 years, miyamoto said hundreds) of years after OoT...

I highly doubt how one sime-big role, one appearance wheres hes playing a flute and a cameo consider a character a character important to the entire series... and no matter what u say it wont change the fact that midna has more of a chance for being more recent, stars in the newest game, and has a big fanbase... dont believe me? look at the rate their chances thread, midna is on the top ten....

It has been proven by several people on this thread to be the same one you just aren't listening to what they are saying. All of the people on the rate their chances thread are biased. You want proof? Midna got to be voted on twice with the stupid wolf as an excuse.

5) in a fight the kign was useless actually, and navy and tatl just target the oponents, midna actually fight, by creating the shadow fields and all, hell she even took on god form gnaondorf...

It doesn't matter if she helped you more than the other companions she was still just a companion.

7) Yep, midna is important to the plot, but also has screen time, its win-win!

Stop repeating her importance to TP.

8) No it hasnt, So far I have nto seen PROOF that its the same one, the closest thing ive seen is:

"Skull kid has the same look as the moon, it has to be the same one!"
something like that...

It's the same one for the love of god and it has been proven several times.

9) OMG then wolf link is OoT link and MM link! he howls the same songs! give me a break... just because he plays sarias song, doesnt mean its the same one, it could be that in the hundreds of years between the gaps of OoT/MM and TP, SOMEONE could have learned the song from the OoT skull kid, I mean, I can learn a song in a day, I bet they can learn a simple song in hundreds of years...

Now you're just in denial of the obvious truth. It's the same SK the facts are all right in front of you and you still choose to ignore it.

10) Thus his role in OoT was kinda useless...

Your new name is capt. obvious.

11) 64 doesnt need rep, more than haf the characters in melee were from 64, the ones that need rep are NES, SNES and GC, 64 had plenty of rep, and aint retro enough to get rep either...

Every era needs rep and will probably get rep in a way whether it be a move character or stage. Every era will get rep because Nintendo loves to show how they remember the old classics. Saying the 64 doesn't need rep is like saying they should forget about it.

12) Time and time again, appearances mean nothing, and sheik only had one minor role in OoT, look at that she was in melee, hel lskull kid didnt even had such a big role in MM, u just c him in the begining and at the end, when u face the mask, yeah u dont face him, u face tha mask, he aint really the bad guy, being the puppet and all, even the mask said so... u cant consider his role in OoT, u didnt really need him, hell Malo in TP had more of a role that SK in OoT, at 1st u went to save the little guy and the other kids, and to get the magic armor u needed him to get it...

and well a cameo aint really much help either, if u were to combined SK role sin one, it would barely be a match to the big role midna had in TP

Why must you continue to argue with me on this point and continue to use the same examples? Appearances show if they are going to continue to use the character and SK's appearances show they will continue to use him while it is still too early to tell for Midna she has only had one appearance so far and she is still not important enough yet to use. Stop saying it was all the mask in MM because it was SK that committed all of the crimes all the mask did was corrupt his heart and mind and made him a crazy emo that wanted to kill everything. You can't use Shiek as an example of why Midna can get in and I have said why countless times and you have continued to ignore it.

13) Ill say it again (2 times in one post hope u dont repeat it)

Melee had less time to be developed than brawl has rite now, melee had what 2 years, and was delayed, and look at what characters we got: pichu, doc, y.link being a clone, skull kid would have been perfect, but due to lack of time, he couldnt be in, its sad really...

Rite now sakurai has had over 2 years now, and all 07 to finish it, thats 3 years or mor eif its delayed, thats more than enough time to add all the characters he wants and avoid clones by giving them unique movesets, we may get 1 or 2 clones, but thats it, point is midna aint in the same situation as SK, because brawl has more time for development athn melee...
MM is one of the most popular zelda games? rite now TP is the most popular, thus midna has a better chance...

For all we know SK wasn't in melee because they didn't know if he was going to continue to be a part of the series and with his role in TP (however minor it may be) it shows they still remember him and plan to use him in the future. It's the same situation no matter how you word it.

14) *Hopin tingle aint in brawl*

*Hoping Tingle is in brawl*

15) and Imp from another dimension who is a princess, knows magic, and can use her hair as a weapon, hard to find anything more unique than that in the zelda series...

Rock people who eat rocks, fish people who eat fish, plant people who shoot nuts, humping zombies, humping mummies,kids with no faces, magic clothes that protect you from heat and choking and carpenters who mysteriously have no eyes. I say the Zelda series has alot of unique stuff.

16) Midna is more recent, is more popular, had the biggest role in (rite now in recent days) the most popular zelda game, and not only that, what we lack in smash are females, she fits the bill, were gonna have way more villains in brawl:

Metaknight (more like a rival, but hes an enemy u face in the game), dedede (hes practically in), ganondorf, mewtwo (if the returns), bowser, bowser jr (highly likely), vaati/zant, ridley, wolf... so on...

Theres only a handful of female characters, and shes perfect for the spot...

You got me on the female thing but being female does not automatically equal a chance in brawl. Besides there are tons of possible female characters that have better chances like Krystal or Lyn.

17) Umm they released the on on GC *sigh* theres no excuse, u cant judge her if u havent played the game... glad I got my wii on launch XD

The Wii version is supposed to be better so I'm waiting to play that one. I've had the **** game since Christmas and STILL haven't got a **** Wii yet. I want to know what the hell happened to supply and demand.

18) Cmon I know enough about metaknight, yet Ive never played a kirby game, So I know I can judge him properly, and never do, same with pit, zamus (never played zero mission) and so on... the popular term is: U cant judge a book by its cover...
Hahaha I thought the harry potter book was ognna be uber lame, even though I knew everyting by ifno and movies, yet I read it and liked it, shpws how true that quote is... (FYI I dont read harry potter anymore, only read it when was a kid )

That term is meant to be used when someone doesn't like something withought ever trying it and I'm not doing that. I'm judging her chances on facts that I already know and not how I like or dislike her.

19) Porven time and time again

Please learn to spell.

 

[Vali]

We can always dream John With the shortage of Wii's hopefully coming to an end in the short term future and the sales of TP continuing to be steady i think it'll breach the 3 million mark by it's first year, if it'll continue to increase up past 5-6 million though? Anyone's guess ^^

 

[Creo]

Well, if you insist. I guess I can't argue with that.

That is exactly why I flame you.

QUOTE]

We have no reason to think SK was even considered for melee and with Midna in a similar situation we have no reason to think more time increases Midna's chances.



Stop repeating this.



It doesn't really take that much time to make an original moveset for characters who have none.



It has been proven by several people on this thread to be the same one you just aren't listening to what they are saying. All of the people on the rate their chances thread are biased. You want proof? Midna got to be voted on twice with the stupid wolf as an excuse.



It doesn't matter if she helped you more than the other companions she was still just a companion.




Stop repeating her importance to TP.



It's the same one for the love of god and it has been proven several times.



Now you're just in denial of the obvious truth. It's the same SK the facts are all right in front of you and you still choose to ignore it.



Your new name is capt. obvious.



Every era needs rep and will probably get rep in a way whether it be a move character or stage. Every era will get rep because Nintendo loves to show how they remember the old classics. Saying the 64 doesn't need rep is like saying they should forget about it.



Why must you continue to argue with me on this point and continue to use the same examples? Appearances show if they are going to continue to use the character and SK's appearances show they will continue to use him while it is still too early to tell for Midna she has only had one appearance so far and she is still not important enough yet to use. Stop saying it was all the mask in MM because it was SK that committed all of the crimes all the mask did was corrupt his heart and mind and made him a crazy emo that wanted to kill everything. You can't use Shiek as an example of why Midna can get in and I have said why countless times and you have continued to ignore it.



For all we know SK wasn't in melee because they didn't know if he was going to continue to be a part of the series and with his role in TP (however minor it may be) it shows they still remember him and plan to use him in the future. It's the same situation no matter how you word it.



*Hoping Tingle is in brawl*



Rock people who eat rocks, fish people who eat fish, plant people who shoot nuts, humping zombies, humping mummies,kids with no faces, magic clothes that protect you from heat and choking and carpenters who mysteriously have no eyes. I say the Zelda series has alot of unique stuff.



You got me on the female thing but being female does not automatically equal a chance in brawl. Besides there are tons of possible female characters that have better chances like Krystal or Lyn.



The Wii version is supposed to be better so I'm waiting to play that one. I've had the **** game since Christmas and STILL haven't got a **** Wii yet. I want to know what the hell happened to supply and demand.



That term is meant to be used when someone doesn't like something withought ever trying it and I'm not doing that. I'm judging her chances on facts that I already know and not how I like or dislike her.



Please learn to spell.

I agree and especially *Tingle for Brawl*

 

[Wiseguy]

Numa Dude: I'm sorry you haven't been able to find I Wii yet. I actually had to beat up an old lady to get mine (What? She had it coming) but shouldn't you refrain from judging Midna's worthiness for Brawl until you've actually played Twilight Princess? I'm not saying you can't debate your point of view, it just seems a little silly to me that you are dismissing Midna without having played her game. Just a thought.

 

[Johnknight1]

I disgress(is that right?) with your statement. I think OoT will just stay at top because it simply outplayed TP with ease.

TP>any other LOZ game IMO. We agreee to disagree! Still, ALTTP is heavily underrated, c'mon it is just as good as OOT! But TP is still the best IMO.

Originally Posted by Vali
We can always dream John With the shortage of Wii's hopefully coming to an end in the short term future and the sales of TP continuing to be steady i think it'll breach the 3 million mark by it's first year, if it'll continue to increase up past 5-6 million though? Anyone's guess ^^

TP will definitely reach 6 million IMO (If you include both versions). That list had it at wat 2. something million, and I checked elsewhere in a more updated place and it said 3 million units (Wii version only). Plus Japan isn't smart enough to get it, and around 88% of all US Wii owners have the game. Plus that number and percentage is rising, so I see TP competing with the original LOZ at least in terms of units sold.

Also another thing to note is many Japanese video game producers don't like TP and are saying it sucks, and several Japanese review magaizines are saying it isn't that good. Lol, another random thing is Famisu recently had a article of their reader's 10 fav games of all-time, and 9/10 of them were Final Fnatasy or Dragon Quest, with #10 being OOT. Shows the diffrence between NA+Europe and Japan, because here in NA or in Europe, the results wouldn't be exclusively two series, but a definite mix.

The shortage of Wii's is either for publicity, or the fact the DS is selling so well, and some Wii productions are cancelled, in favor of the DS. A little off topic, but the DS is going down in the Guineuss Book of World Records for fastest selling system of all-time. Ya, that is how big the DS is, the DS is absolutely destroying the PSP, and I don't see the PSP doing any better.

Originally Posted by Wiseguy
I actually had to beat up an old lady to get mine

You stole that from the first Spider-man!

 

[Stryks]

Numa Would u mind showing where exaclty is that "proof" that TP skull kid is the same one from MM, is u say that the guys here have proven it, its no diferent from the reat their chances, which u called biase, I want real proof, which their isnt...

More time to develop doesnt increment her chances to be in the game god read the post, it increment the chances that the same thing wont happen to skull kid, if shes consider to be in brawl, yet if theres no time then thats what gonna happen to her [same thing [probably] that happen to SK], yet if shes consider, and with far more time to develop the game, they can add her without worriying about the deadline...

Believe me, it takes far more time to make anything from scratch, than using a reference to create it...

Midna was voted twice cause there are too possible forms of midna, solo midna or wolf link/midna, both were added to c which one is more popular and too c wich has more of a shot (in our opinions)...

Dude theyre aint gonna rep every single console there was, the ones that will most likely get rep are NES, GC and some Wii characters, "Every era will get rep because Nintendo loves to show how they remember the old classics." wow u sure do sound confident, mind explaining how u knwo so much?

It hasnt been proven that skull kid from TP is the same one, give me REAL info, and not opinions from people here...

By the time melee was released, we didnt know if sheik will continue to appear in future zelda games, yet she appeared didnt she? its the same with midna...

It doesnt matter how many times a character has appeard or wil lcontinue to appear, if he only plays minor roles, then theres no need to include him in a game of all stars...

Midna is only one of her kind, in impish form, there are many gorons, zoras, dekus, mummies and all, they arent unique, unique means that theirs only one, and there are plenty of the ones I mentioned b4, yet theres only one imp character with all those abilities...

"That term is meant to be used when someone doesn't like something withought ever trying it and I'm not doing that."
Thats exactly what ur doing, u said it urself a few posts/pages back, u dont like midna, ur judging her by "knowing enough info on her" and yet u never played the game, I say play it, and then u can judge her, but ur doin it rite now which is very ********...

Numa Dude: I'm sorry you haven't been able to find I Wii yet. I actually had to beat up an old lady to get mine (What? She had it coming) but shouldn't you refrain from judging Midna's worthiness for Brawl until you've actually played Twilight Princess? I'm not saying you can't debate your point of view, it just seems a little silly to me that you are dismissing Midna without having played her game. Just a thought.

Even Wiseguy knows its no rite judging a VG character without playing the game...

There are no facts that prove TP SK is the one of MM, hell they dont look the same! now dont give me "Its proven time and time again ur in denial" what denial ive seen nothing! show me the info, so far u have given NO reason why midna should not be in brawl, and has been proven by me and many other people here...

 

[Creo]

Not to get back to Tingle because I stated why he has a chance well already, but Tingle looks nothing like himself in any of them but is still the same. Looks can be deceiving.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

That is exactly why I flame you.

Seriously, let's drop this now, we really are derailing this topic. I apologize for calling you a jerk and an idiot, I seriously can't be asked for this anymore and I'm not really in the best of moods so it'll just degenerate into a flame war, which would just ruin this topic entirely. We'll be getting new information very soon that'll be up for discussion, and I don't want to ruin this excitement by arguing with someone over the internet in what seems to be an increasingly stupid bicker (on both our parts, not just you).

As for TP Skull Kid being the Skull Kid we know and love from OoT and MM, there isn't any hardcore proof that they are the same. However, I recall that the Lost children are ageless (no idea where I got this from, but I definitely remember something), so it's possible that it is the same Skull Kid. I think people prefer to think of him as the same Skull Kid rather than some random one just for the sake of nostalgia. There's probably more to it than that, but I'm shaky on the scene so I can't remember if there was something he said that was significant or not. TBH, I did actually wonder if it was the same Skull Kid when I first saw him in TP.

 

[Creo]

Well you are right on that. Kokiri children who get lost in the lost woods forever turn into that and still don't age. Also true that we don't have hardcore proof, but from what fans such as me and Numa have deciphered, it is a likely possibility.

My Tingle thing is not all true.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Tingle is very much an oddball in the series. He seems to be the same tingle in each game (like Ganondorf, but unlike Link and Zelda), yet a lot of these games are separated by possibly centuries (MM was even in a different dimension), yet from what we can gather he's entirely human. Granted he is a comic relief character, so he's probably not meant to make much sense in that regard. Though I was seriously WTF when I saw him in that Jail in WW.

 

[Creo]

Tingle is very much an oddball in the series. He seems to be the same tingle in each game (like Ganondorf, but unlike Link and Zelda), yet a lot of these games are separated by possibly centuries (MM was even in a different dimension), yet from what we can gather he's entirely human. Granted he is a comic relief character, so he's probably not meant to make much sense in that regard. Though I was seriously WTF when I saw him in that Jail in WW.

He is basically the same character but is not because of the time lines and that is it. Any way you put it, he always uses maps and talks the same and everything else. We can consider him the same.