Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Who's not understanding who, Gheb? Who is spouting AtE, Gheb? What I expect you to do is bring forth concrete points to me. I want to cooperate, but not if you just repeat the same stuff over and over again, because in that case I'll do the same.

A constructive solution would be something I can actually work against. Right now, your main point is hindering progress. But once I show you that we're working on that now we have the resources, you say that it's invalid because it's after the call-out. Do you understand why YOU are getting on MY nerves?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

tried to say it in a way so people would understand it without needing to be explained, but yes.
basically i need ryker to stick around for me to do so.

Still have no clue what you mean 0_0
You said you're "royall ****ed" if Ryker bites the dust. I don't understand what this has to do with a "L1 ability" [whatever that's supposed to be]. Unless you're dying from it you should definitely execute Ryker.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

And if you can't work with that reply then I give up, really.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol just let Sworddancer do the talk for now, you're not making things better at all <_<

 

[Orboknown]

Still have no clue what you mean 0_0
You said you're "royall ****ed" if Ryker bites the dust. I don't understand what this has to do with a "L1 ability" [whatever that's supposed to be]. Unless you're dying from it you should definitely execute Ryker.

L1-our given ability.
as a result of that, if ryker dies, i die.
sheesh.

 

[Orboknown]

literally coinflipped who to pick with that between you guys

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

If you've actually read what I said in big cyan text, he can't. He's busy with midterms. What in that reply even makes it so hard to reply to it? I thought it was perfectly reasonable :/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you've actually read what I said in big cyan text, he can't. He's busy with midterms. What in that reply even makes it so hard to reply to it? I thought it was perfectly reasonable :/

Eh OK, I try then.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A constructive solution would be something I can actually work against. Right now, your main point is hindering progress. But once I show you that we're working on that now we have the resources, you say that it's invalid because it's after the call-out. Do you understand why YOU are getting on MY nerves?

You're working on that? That's the thing I'm not buying. You seem to be under the impression that your D2 input has been satisfactory to me, which isn't the case. In fact, I remember mentioning that a list of reads alone at one point in the game doesn't make up for all the things you have NOT done. Just because of one rare instance, where you contribute in a manner that makes me think you're actually interested in town winning this game I'm not changing my mind on you "hindering progress", which you've still been doing almost all game. It's not like a well written post with some solid reads makes all the other things go away like that. Based on how you've been playing this game so far I still have no reason to believe you're going to be less of a problem.

You also don't offer a better lynch. You say Gova or Inferno but neither case is stronger than my case on you. If you actually were as commited to finding scum for us as you pretend to be then you shouldn't have troubles making a better, equally comprehensive case since mine is so "ugly", right? You're not avocating these lynches strongly so unless you're getting some serious work in on that I'll maintain that you're just doing what's necessary for you to stay alive.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Alright this is going somewhere.

You're working on that? That's the thing I'm not buying. You seem to be under the impression that your D2 input has been satisfactory to me, which isn't the case. In fact, I remember mentioning that a list of reads alone at one point in the game doesn't make up for all the things you have NOT done. Just because of one rare instance, where you contribute in a manner that makes me think you're actually interested in town winning this game I'm not changing my mind on you "hindering progress", which you've still been doing almost all game. It's not like a well written post with some solid reads makes all the other things go away like that. Based on how you've been playing this game so far I still have no reason to believe you're going to be less of a problem.

Points:
- You're on the impression I'm not working on further contribution
- D2 input is still not satisfactory
- Read list does not make up for the points we've not done
- No reason to believe we'll be less of a problem

- You're on the impression I'm not working on further contribution
Alright, Gheb, I'd like to refer you to our recent activity. This started just before the read list was written. I honestly don't see how we're not trying to advance the game and try to get reads out there.

- D2 input is still not satisfactory
Once again, I have the feeling that we are fixing this. Our posts have been asking questions and hunting scum. I really really really request you to reread recent activity. That is to say, from about this point onwards.

- Read list does not make up for the points we've not done
Here's the thing, we can't fix what is in the past. The only thing we're doing is trying to make up for it. But it's pretty darn hard to be forgiven when you keep hammering on that D1 play/early D2, where we've been severely limited. What could we do to make up for the points, besides a complete read list which shows everything we're thinking on everyone?

- No reason to believe we'll be less of a problem
I can't reply to this. The only thing I can do is once again request you read from post 1316 onwards.

You also don't offer a better lynch. You say Gova or Inferno but neither case is stronger than my case on you. If you actually were as commited to finding scum for us as you pretend to be then you shouldn't have troubles making a better, equally comprehensive case since mine is so "ugly", right? You're not avocating these lynches strongly so unless you're getting some serious work in on that I'll maintain that you're just doing what's necessary for you to stay alive.

If you could look back at our previous posts, we have a problem with reads. Not enough strong town or any strong scum reads at all up for lynch to help us navigate.

What we think regarding Gova and Inferno is in our player list. The point we make against Gova can almost be considered similar to your point on us. Inferno is largely his D1 play coupled with his D2 play which has basically been purely claim-based, which can be seen in two ways depending on WIFOM.
The thing is that, just like we don't see your case as satisfactory, we feel that we can not put a satisfactory case down on any of our scum picks atm.

I can get behind your point of view, but here are a few questions for you:

- Why are we scummier than one of Red Ruy/Gova/Inferno/Orbo/(Kantrip in your eyes)?
- Is your case on us based on scummy play or anti-town play?
Be frank here, because right now I'm seeing you accuse us of anti-town more than scum, and we've explained the origin of those points.

Hell, the only one in that list I just gave you that is advocating another lynch is Red Ruy and Kantrip to some degree. Gova, Inferno and Orbo all don't advocate any lynch at all, and if they do, it did not make a lasting impression on me, because I don't recall anything. We hardly know what they think, while our thoughts are out there in the open. I think keeping us around will be a good decision for today regardless. I just can't wrap my head around why you'd sooner let our slot go than theirs, so please enlighten us all to that.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

literally coinflipped who to pick with that between you guys

Orbo I am very perplexed by this quasi-claim. You're saying that if Ryker dies today, that you're going to die as well, correct?

Then what's up with your first post of the day?

Ryker sucks at mafia

Who I'm Looking at:
Glyph-I'm starting to like him a bit more considering his later posts, but not enough to offset my initial reaction from that "lynch a weak link before we even care what faction they are".
Lego-Not posting much content(pot calling kettle black i know) except to say that he needs to talk with swords. Did not like how he accepted Rajam's D1 no-vote thing and turned around to vote him in the same post.
Seph's slot is null, but will look at it when sang posts.
Ryker town lean.
Gheb town lean, which complicates things because i really dont wanna execute either of you but don't wanna lose both of you.
Kantrip because of T-blocks play, and his whole doom thing. But that's closer to null than anything

Well gee, if killing on would result in your death then it sure seems to me like it'd be pretty damn obvious who I'd be backing. But hey, maybe that was just a fluke post.

@rajam-not voting yet ebcause havent had time to read since friday and im doing that RR iso swords/gheb asked for.

really unsure of who to execute over gheb/ryker. Ryker seems to be putting in more work at times but gheb more cooperative.

Also you're going to die if one of them dies. But hey, why should that sway your opinion at all right?

Gheb being more cooperative meaning that he would compromise more than ryker. But im definitely leaning toward Ryker now, just because he really seems commited.Don't see a scum pulling up that huge*** nich case.
reads post coming in next post.

'I think Ryker and Gheb are both town, and here are some reasons I have seen other people say'

Ryker-Town. Like i just said, don't see a scumryker pulling that huge case just for a mislynch.
Glyph-Leantown. Liked his responses clarifying the posts lego questioned, and the intent behind his hellcry punch-gova case.
Rajam-From what i have read, townlean. He seems to have a good intention to his posts. Unsure of his mimic claim or his "gift" he has to use on inferno.Lynch if needed, but not the first choice.
Gheb-Town. He is caling people on when needed, getting others(like me) active, and the like.
Gova-Null. Honestly not sure what to make of em. Posts good stuff when he does post, but not very often. Lynch if needed
Legolas-was looking scum at yesterdays end, still somewhat so today. He has gotten better now that swords seems to be posting regularly. That said, his flip would probs give a decent amount of info, though not sure atm where it would lead us.
Sang-Townie. Everything has been pretty straight forward, nothing scummy i can infer.
Raziek-Nulltown. Would not lynch him. Watcher claim is enough to offset any potentials worries for now.
Inferno-Null. Really not sure here. Would lynch if it came to it, but probs would not pull the trigger if i were rajam. That is just me though.
RR-posted opinion above.OK lynching.
Kantrip-seeing scum if anything. His nich defense could have been for town points, and posting stuff like "who cares if they can't read me" is not pro-town.
Me-town.

'I think Ryker and Gheb are both town, and here are some reasons I have seen other people say'


Main idea here being: You have done NOTHING to make me believe you're linked to Ryker in any way. Seriously.


And I'm sure you'll respond (or someone else will defend you with) 'But Glyph! I'm a townie! I don't want to come across as self preservational!'

But there is a time and a place to do so. If all townies rolled over and died without a fight, every wagon ever would go through and scum would just win win win win win.

Convince me that your play makes sense with you being life-linked to Ryker, or else I'm very okay with Orbo dying today.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

What could we do to make up for the points, besides a complete read list which shows everything we're thinking on everyone?

jfyi this is not rhetorical.

 

[Inferno3044]

When has not quoting been any sort of scum tell Rajam? I rarely quote unless I feel it's necessary like if you ask a question. Even then I sometimes just post in a way that it's obvious what I'm talking about and who I'm addressing. Also I'm assuming me asking about Raziek's results were counted as direct quotes. Also, assuming you aren't gambiting, someone is setting you up and I hope you know that.

 

[Orboknown]

Orbo I am very perplexed by this quasi-claim. You're saying that if Ryker dies today, that you're going to die as well, correct?

in short, yes. but its not that clean cut, however i don't wanna release the seond half of this info.

Then what's up with your first post of the day?

because i was conflicted on who i wanted to use my ability on. i hadn't chosen who to use it with yet.

Well gee, if killing on would result in your death then it sure seems to me like it'd be pretty damn obvious who I'd be backing. But hey, maybe that was just a fluke post.
Also you're going to die if one of them dies. But hey, why should that sway your opinion at all right?

yea, because whoever i choose out of the pair im obviously not going to execute.

'I think Ryker and Gheb are both town, and here are some reasons I have seen other people say'



'I think Ryker and Gheb are both town, and here are some reasons I have seen other people say'

ok. seriously, its better than saying i have no read on them.

Main idea here being: You have done NOTHING to make me believe you're linked to Ryker in any way. Seriously.

Because i wasn't until this afternoon.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

So its a day ability then?

So tell me, you knew full well that if the person you used this ability on died, you would as well.

You took this chance to link yourself to one of the two players who have a 50% chance of dying.

This whole thing is just really really really gross

 

[Orboknown]

ok. bad wording.

If the ryker is chosen to die, i will die. better? interpret the rest as you will.

 

[Orboknown]

and yes, it is a day ability. One shot, cannot change the target.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

...no, that part was very clear actually. The icky part is you suddenly deciding that should town want to execute Ryker, we're suddenly losing you as well. You've stacked the odds in his favor in a way that you really should not have acted on based off the super lame town reads you've stated on both of them.

 

[Orboknown]

...do i have to spell it out once and for all?

seriously, i had a choice to pick a person to be linked with. when they are chosen to die, i die. the intended death target does not. Saving ryker would have a better town benefit then keeping me around.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

OH! Well that's fantastic news! We'll execute Ryker and get rid of you!

 

[Orboknown]

god that does not sit well. Not even for the fact that its me, but lynching someone to get rid of someone else instead of the target? we should still decide who would be a better execute target.

since that is out there, Execute, Gheb
literally a coin toss between you guys. No hard feelings gheb

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Why is it a coin toss if it's you/Gheb? You're making no sense :/

Anyone who wants to win should execute Orbo (Ryker that would be), frees up a lynch for us for Inferno/Gova/RR.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Well considering you've just made the choice Orbo v Gheb, I think its pretty obvious who we're going to pursue.

And if Ryker dies and you don't, we'll just lynch you the next day. Everybody happy!

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Glyph what do you think of Kantrip exactly? Leave T-Block out of it, just pure Kantrip.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wow, execute Ryker guys this is almost perfect.

[responding to Xonar next]

 

[Orboknown]

there ya go then.
martyr for town.

ryker, your welcome.
as its pretty obvious im gonna take the fall, should i claim for you guys?

 

[Orboknown]

Why is it a coin toss if it's you/Gheb? You're making no sense :/

Anyone who wants to win should execute Orbo (Ryker that would be), frees up a lynch for us for Inferno/Gova/RR.

was a coin toss for who i was gonna pick to die for.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Glyph what do you think of Kantrip exactly? Leave T-Block out of it, just pure Kantrip.

I think he is a stinky butt

And have made several posts detailing why I find his posterior less than appealing

Big points being his push on keeping Nich without actually offering an alternate lynch and his weird pushes on getting Ryker to give him an escape route from the lynches he had put forth.

Now, maybe I'm misunderstanding the execute command, but don't you 'vote' for the person you want to die?

If you're really being the martyr that you claim Orbo, why did you vote for Gheb?

 

[Orboknown]

honestly, voting for effectively myself still doesn't make sense. I admit im fine with dying though.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Your actions and what you claim as your motivations don't line up.

execute: Ryker

But at this point there's nothing to do about it but test it. If you die and Ryker lives, congrats you've done town a big favor. If anything else happens, we kill you tomorrow.

 

[Orboknown]

if it wasn't going to happen, why even say it would happen? I know i would catch a ****storm if i faked this and it actually went through with ryker dying

 

[~ Gheb ~]

- You're on the impression I'm not working on further contribution
Alright, Gheb, I'd like to refer you to our recent activity. This started just before the read list was written. I honestly don't see how we're not trying to advance the game and try to get reads out there.

Activity =/= moving the game forward. You can actively say a lot of nothing. Not to say that that's exactly what you've been doing but it still covers a lot of what you've been doing. Definitely some of that toDay as well.

- Read list does not make up for the points we've not done
Here's the thing, we can't fix what is in the past. The only thing we're doing is trying to make up for it. But it's pretty darn hard to be forgiven when you keep hammering on that D1 play/early D2, where we've been severely limited. What could we do to make up for the points, besides a complete read list which shows everything we're thinking on everyone?

1.) Just because you can't fix it doesn't mean it doesn't speak against you. It just means that you did something that's irreversible.
2.) The "forgiven" part kind of shows the issue too: you're more concerned with being "forgiven" and getting yourself cleared than to find scum. It still lines up with my initial accusation.
3.) Not everything can be made up for. I don't think you can make up for what you failed to do so far before about the middle of the next Day phase tbh. Yeah, I'm not "forgiving" you or "giving you a chance" here but you could've done something about that right from the start.

What we think regarding Gova and Inferno is in our player list. The point we make against Gova can almost be considered similar to your point on us. Inferno is largely his D1 play coupled with his D2 play which has basically been purely claim-based, which can be seen in two ways depending on WIFOM.
The thing is that, just like we don't see your case as satisfactory, we feel that we can not put a satisfactory case down on any of our scum picks atm.

So how exactly is any of that better or more conclusive than my points against you? You basically say that your case on Gova is similar to mine on you ... but since mine supposedly doesn't really apply how can you expect me to take your "case" on Gova any serious? By your own logic, you don't actually have a legitimate case on him.

I can get behind your point of view, but here are a few questions for you:

- Why are we scummier than one of Red Ruy/Gova/Inferno/Orbo/(Kantrip in your eyes)?
- Is your case on us based on scummy play or anti-town play?
Be frank here, because right now I'm seeing you accuse us of anti-town more than scum, and we've explained the origin of those points.

1.) I don't have a particular scum read on Gova or Inferno so I don't see why you add them there. Kantrip actually hasn't made as many "offenses" toDay as you did and Ryu just hasn't been around enough to make clear points on him other that all of his cases have been garbage [which I kind of expected anyway]. I'd love to see either vigged and imo lynching one of them soon is almost completely inevitable in my book. It's just a question of being able to gather enough points against them, especially in Ryu's case who's been notoriously inactive in all recent games as far as I can tell.

2.) In your case there's no point in the distinction. If the player is as experienced as you are then anti-town always has to be scum too. You don't play "accidently" anti-town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If Orbo doesn't die upon Ryker execution we get a scumbag for free.

Otherwise he'll die but I'll find the scum either way. Execute Ryker, seriously.

 

[Inferno3044]

The execution decision just got easier. I was probably gonna choose Ryker in the end anyways. Have a stronger town read on Gheb and I feel like he can lead us better.

Execute: Ryker

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Activity =/= moving the game forward. You can actively say a lot of nothing. Not to say that that's exactly what you've been doing but it still covers a lot of what you've been doing. Definitely some of that toDay as well.

Alright, I simply disagree here. I really don't see how we're not actively moving the game forward.

1.) Just because you can't fix it doesn't mean it doesn't speak against you. It just means that you did something that's irreversible.
2.) The "forgiven" part kind of shows the issue too: you're more concerned with being "forgiven" and getting yourself cleared than to find scum. It still lines up with my initial accusation.
3.) Not everything can be made up for. I don't think you can make up for what you failed to do so far before about the middle of the next Day phase tbh. Yeah, I'm not "forgiving" you or "giving you a chance" here but you could've done something about that right from the start.

The black I can't do anything with.
But point two annoys me. Why do you think I'm MORE concerned with being forgiven? No, I'm not, it's just that most my scum reads are relatively inactive and hard to pursue, do you disagree on this point?

So how exactly is any of that better or more conclusive than my points against you? You basically say that your case on Gova is similar to mine on you ... but since mine supposedly doesn't really apply how can you expect me to take your "case" on Gova any serious? By your own logic, you don't actually have a legitimate case on him.

Yup. I even admitted it in the quote you have there:

The thing is that, just like we don't see your case as satisfactory, we feel that we can not put a satisfactory case down on any of our scum picks atm.

I'm not a hypocrite here.

1.) I don't have a particular scum read on Gova or Inferno so I don't see why you add them there. Kantrip actually hasn't made as many "offenses" toDay as you did and Ryu just hasn't been around enough to make clear points on him other that all of his cases have been garbage [which I kind of expected anyway]. I'd love to see either vigged and imo lynching one of them soon is almost completely inevitable in my book. It's just a question of being able to gather enough points against them, especially in Ryu's case who's been notoriously inactive in all recent games as far as I can tell.

See, here's the problem. We don't agree on Kantrip, you won't agree to Gova or Inferno and you even admit that getting Ryu is borderline impossible. We are with our backs against the wall and the only way to not get lynched is to support a lynch on a player we have a town read on.

2.) In your case there's no point in the distinction. If the player is as experienced as you are then anti-town always has to be scum too. You don't play "accidently" anti-town.

Alright, fair point to some degree. Our anti-town behavior is explained. The D1 stuff and stopping Gova/Glyph was an accident based on a wrong view, that's all I can say.

Questions once again:

1.) If we really were so concerned with surviving, why don't we take Kantrip's lynch? There are an equal amount of people on Lego and Kantrip (more on Kantrip?), with Kantrip having more support overall. Yes this point is sorta ugly, but waiting for someone else to point it out won't help my slot. I need to do something as soon as possible.

2.) What do you think about this interaction?

3.) Point out where we've stopped information flow besides the Gova/Glyph accident, because I don't recall doing so. You say we're doing it subtly, so I won't reply to your pointing out, and leave it up for interpretation, fair deal to me.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Yes, I'm set on talking this out. I really think you're not on track with this. We will go on til a solution or impasse is reached.

 

[Orboknown]

alright, so we have 7 votes needed to execute.
lego cant vote.
im at E-2(5 votes on ryker if i counted right)
ryu and kantrip need to throw down execution votes iirc

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

See, here's the problem. We don't want to get lynched, but we don't agree on Kantrip, you won't agree to Gova or Inferno and I have a feeling that you won't because it's the 29th already, and you even admit that getting Ryu is borderline impossible. We are with our backs against the wall and the only REALISTIC way to not get lynched is to support a lynch on a player we have a town read on.

alright edited that a bit. looked grimy.

 

[Orboknown]

its the 28th in est.we have 21 hours left.

 

[Orboknown]

btw im out for the night. will be here intermittently tomorrow but have class 2-330 so will most likely not be here to hammer at deadline.