Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Actually, I may take that sentence back. I still think you're being played, but it may be worth it to spring the trap. This does nothing to change the lynch toDay unless it is actually real. It's too much bad WIFOM otherwise.

Inferno, do not go claiming unless you are given the say so. We won't let you die without outing it.

 

[Rajam]

Ryker, do you think that the person who sent me this should claim it?

Open question btw. Would like to hear responses from Lego, Gova, Kantrip, Raziek, Red Ryu, Gheb, to name some, regarding this and the whole issue

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes. Yes in every case. The person who sent it should DEFINITELY claim.

 

[Rajam]

Yes. Yes in every case. The person who sent it should DEFINITELY claim.

+1. I support that as well. This looks fishy

 

[Orboknown]

Okay, really? You are, like, the second or third person to say this. WTH does being cooperative have to do with somebody being town or not? That isn't always a good thing, you know.

Gheb being more cooperative meaning that he would compromise more than ryker. But im definitely leaning toward Ryker now, just because he really seems commited.Don't see a scum pulling up that huge*** nich case.
reads post coming in next post.

 

[Raziek]

Wasn't this how Glyph initially claimed Hellcry Punch worked when he gambitted on Nich?

I don't agree with shooting Inferno, I've got a Town read there and don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Raz, just trust me in that you're probably wrong, but that was my knee jerk reaction sans the town read.

 

[Orboknown]

Wasn't this how Glyph initially claimed Hellcry Punch worked when he gambitted on Nich?

I don't agree with shooting Inferno, I've got a Town read there and don't think it's worth the risk.

IIRC it was originally a dayvig gambit needing confirmation from another player(which would obviously never come) and now it is some sort of roleblock that counts as a NK in NAR?

 

[Rajam]

Case on Inferno - Part 1

ok, gonna try to keep this as brief as possible; I don't want walls. Here is my case from the beginning of this Day, which I still hold up:

vote: Inferno3044

Oportunistic as T-block pointed out. Didn't open discussion in new ways; was just sheeping, picking easy targets and being opportunistic. Disgusting over-defensiveness in #246. Didn't answer Nich questions twice, as Nich pointed out in #248 and in #344 (Inferno only answered later once called out). His #510 kinda contradicts his #482; in 482 he was the first player mentioning the lynch on Nich was the only possible lynch, but in 510 he says Nich isn't his 1° scum pick, nonetheless, Inferno never did much of anything by strongly voicing a different lynch option.

Inferno is scum. People should reread him

I'll focus now on showing Inferno's posting patterns.

D1 posting pattern:

Spoiler

I focused on three main indicators:

D: Stands for Direct. It refers to posts made by Inferno that are a consequence by a direct request towards Inferno, or follow-ups to previous discussions in which Inferno was directly involved.

I: Indirect. It refers to posts made by Inferno that were "unprovoked", in which he isn't addressing direct requestments towards him. (Basically if a post doesn't fall in the "D" category, then it is "I").

Q: Usage of quotes. It refers to posts made by Inferno in which he uses quotes other than to address direct requestments towards him.

Although at the end all of these idicators are personal oppinions, they are pretty close to being actual facts.

Now, same analysis for Day 2:

Spoiler

---

~ Analysis & Conclusions ~​

In both Days, it is easy to see Inferno isn't using quotes, other than to address direct requests. This quickly indicates his scum-hunt could be lazy and that he isn't re-reading or doing major efforts in tracking back stuff.

In Day 2, it is also easy to see than Inferno's posts are dedicated in large part only to address direct requests, or to follow-up on discussion in which he was directly involved. This also could indicate problems in scumhunting and creating new directions.

---

While checking for this stuff, I also noticed Inferno received a lot of heat between his #510 and #690, most of which Inferno didn't address. I don't like that, I think he just didn't want to "compete" with Nich, who was also during a lot of pressure in that time.

This case should be strong enough. Maybe I'll analyze his scumhunting deeper later, but if I don't, this is still solid stuff, which reinforces my initial case. Inferno is scum and should be lynched toDay

 

[Orboknown]

Ryker-Town. Like i just said, don't see a scumryker pulling that huge case just for a mislynch.
Glyph-Leantown. Liked his responses clarifying the posts lego questioned, and the intent behind his hellcry punch-gova case.
Rajam-From what i have read, townlean. He seems to have a good intention to his posts. Unsure of his mimic claim or his "gift" he has to use on inferno.Lynch if needed, but not the first choice.
Gheb-Town. He is caling people on when needed, getting others(like me) active, and the like.
Gova-Null. Honestly not sure what to make of em. Posts good stuff when he does post, but not very often. Lynch if needed
Legolas-was looking scum at yesterdays end, still somewhat so today. He has gotten better now that swords seems to be posting regularly. That said, his flip would probs give a decent amount of info, though not sure atm where it would lead us.
Sang-Townie. Everything has been pretty straight forward, nothing scummy i can infer.
Raziek-Nulltown. Would not lynch him. Watcher claim is enough to offset any potentials worries for now.
Inferno-Null. Really not sure here. Would lynch if it came to it, but probs would not pull the trigger if i were rajam. That is just me though.
RR-posted opinion above.OK lynching.
Kantrip-seeing scum if anything. His nich defense could have been for town points, and posting stuff like "who cares if they can't read me" is not pro-town.
Me-town.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Rajam, there is a major issue that you're not seeing. I'll show it to you later today.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Are you serious? Do you think I've forgotten about the incident where you messed up the whole Gova vs Glyph situation? You must be playing this game with dementia or something because you always leave out the conclusive parts of my cases and act as if they never happened. And once I point them out you act as if the other stuff didn't happen.

So let's wrap this up once and for all so you can't draw the "not enough evidence"-card, which at this point is complete crap:

- D1, there were plenty of instances where you did not offer reads or elaborate on them under the pretext that hydra communication has been difficult. I'm not even going to point out individual instances of this because it happened a lot. It's not a hyperbole. It happened A LOT. This did hurt progress because in many of those instances you ended up offering nothing even though you could've anyway. nd no, by itself that's by no means a scumtell.

- D1, your reads exactly matches those of Ryker, Raziek's and mine. OK, maybe not "exactly" but almost all of the few reads you cared to elaborated on happaned to be a player on one of our scumlists. I could point it out in case you don't remember but at this point that seems superfluous because everybody knows it and I've called you out on it looooooooooong ago ... so you can't act like it didn't happen / you don't remember. This did hurt progress because in many instances you ended up offering nothing new.

- D2, you'd start to complain about my attacks against you even though my points were becoming more and more concrete and direct. If anything, I could've understood if you didn't like the way I treated you D1 because I didn't clearly make a case on you being scummy or not. Now it's kind of backed up very well and it should be obvious what I think about you. And as soon as it turns out that I actually find you suspicious you start to have problems with me? Although from a more defensive stance on your part, the way you're trying to brush the case off is still counter-productive to the town's progress because you keep me running in circles about all this.

- In the Gova vs Glife exchange you screwed a great opportunity to find contradiction ... and I mean scummy contradiction, not the harmless kind of contradiction like changing one's mind or anything. We could've gained new, better conclusions on all the night action talk we had about people visiting me en masse and maybe figured out whether one of Gova or Inferno actually did try to kill me. Now we know just as little as earlier and are left with a ****load of roles exposed as a result. Oh, and of course this also falls into "hindering porgress" category.

-So you're basically making it your word against our word. Our "constant" hydra johns. Your right that you can't take anything out of that, so why even bring it up at all?

Also FYI we had a full read list yesturDay ready to post, but YOU actually told us that you were okay with our content, and so we decided to hold off posting it until others posted their thoughts. It just so happened that we never got around to it by the time the Day ended.

-You mean like Nich? Cus honestly I don't remember anyone else besides maybe TB. The general consensus yesturDay is that Nich was condamned after Ryker's case. Nich looked like scum to pretty much everyone so you could attack anyone with this point. Also we're obviously going to give our thoughts our people who are hot topics at the time so don't act like it's scummy of us to do this just because "obvious town" players like you and Ryker gave a simillur opinion about it first.

-Read our ISO of you, and see why we think it's legit to not like how you started to attack our slot.

Also, you should know that I (Sworddancer) was never sold completly on Gheb town, but Xonar was, and he was the one posting most of the time yesturDay.

Also know that, while even though we've stated concerns about your slot, we've both STILL ultimatly decided that you are more likely town than not, it's just that we're not as confident on you as Ryker, and because of these concerns, we've ultimatly decided to endorse your death in toDay's excution over Ryker's. Our problems with you didn't start becasue you attacked us, they started as soon as we made a decision in you vs. Ryker.

-"Hindering progress" is one of the lamest things you can call someone out for and you know it. Come on now Gheb, do you honestly think that, as scum, we decided to actively try to "hinder progress," especially considering what position we were in at the time? Besides, what scum actually even TRIES to "hinder progress" actively, besides maybe hammering themselves to end a Day quickly? Seriously, get real.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

The images are for my own amusement

I hope you don't expect that making one solid contribution makes up for all the instances where you failed to contribute. Also how "soon" is "soon"? I highly doubt that you're going to contribute a satisfactory amount of worthwhile input toDay ...

That's me and Swords btw​

Honestly, doing an analysis and multiple rereads to create a ginormous read list which basically plays all our cards isn't good contribution? Hell, what standards do you have to "make up for all the instances where we failed to contribute"?
You're haunting us WAAAAAYYYY too hard with our D1 play, which was consistent of a Sword who was busy and didn't care and a Xonar who was FULL FOCUS on ****ing G3S not to say demotivated by not being able to cooperate with Sword.

No and no.

I guess this is a bad case of conflicting ideas. Either way a point that you shouldn't drive as hard as you do and should be up for interpretation. As we see it, constant hydra johns is a hyperbole and should be anti-town if anything. Simple as that.

Are you serious? Do you think I've forgotten about the incident where you messed up the whole Gova vs Glyph situation? You must be playing this game with dementia or something because you always leave out the conclusive parts of my cases and act as if they never happened. And once I point them out you act as if the other stuff didn't happen.

Point this out. Seriously, POINT THIS OUT.

So let's wrap this up once and for all so you can't draw the "not enough evidence"-card, which at this point is complete crap:

- D1, there were plenty of instances where you did not offer reads or elaborate on them under the pretext that hydra communication has been difficult. I'm not even going to point out individual instances of this because it happened a lot. It's not a hyperbole. It happened A LOT. This did hurt progress because in many of those instances you ended up offering nothing even though you could've anyway. nd no, by itself that's by no means a scumtell.

Points:
- You did not offer reads
-> Or you did not elaborate under the pretext that hydra has been going wrong

- We ended up nothing when we could have offered stuff.
- This is not a scumtell on it's own.

Points of interest:
- Referring only to D1 play.
- Applies the logic of us not offering when that was oh so applicable to like 90% of the players, and we had LEGIT johns while they were just inactive

Though I have to admit, we did indeed not offer as much information and we were not as involved as we'd like to, but it has reasons. For the reader, remember this is D1 play he is referring to.

- D1, your reads exactly matches those of Ryker, Raziek's and mine. OK, maybe not "exactly" but almost all of the few reads you cared to elaborated on happaned to be a player on one of our scumlists. I could point it out in case you don't remember but at this point that seems superfluous because everybody knows it and I've called you out on it looooooooooong ago ... so you can't act like it didn't happen / you don't remember. This did hurt progress because in many instances you ended up offering nothing new.

Are we just revisiting arguments that all have the same answer? We even admitted to this on D1.
Few explanations:
- We were not into the game, so we had no good view
- We were not into each other, we had no motivation
- The reading that we did was easily influenced because of this.

Once again, I'd like to remind the reader that this is D1 stuff.

- D2, you'd start to complain about my attacks against you even though my points were becoming more and more concrete and direct. If anything, I could've understood if you didn't like the way I treated you D1 because I didn't clearly make a case on you being scummy or not. Now it's kind of backed up very well and it should be obvious what I think about you. And as soon as it turns out that I actually find you suspicious you start to have problems with me? Although from a more defensive stance on your part, the way you're trying to brush the case off is still counter-productive to the town's progress because you keep me running in circles about all this.

Points:
- We were complaining about your attacks ON US even though your attacks were concrete
- We have trouble with you as soon as you find us suspicious
- We keep you running in circles

Bitch, PLEASE.

We were complaining about a few of your style issues. It's all in our analysis, including one of you.

Us having trouble as soon as you find us suspicious? PLEASE. We still see you as town, we just think that you and Ryker are incredibly wrong on your reads on me and Kantrip.
The trouble we have with you was legit. We have to make a stance between you and Ryker, and the fact is that we are more satisfied with Ryker's slot to that degree, but I'm wavering on that if he really is intent on lynching our+Kantrip's slot. I know you would be more open to discussion on those parts, but he just seems to put his goggles on.

Keeping you running in circles is, quite frankly, because you keep brining up points with answers that you are not satisfied with. Our D1 play was bad, admitted, but it had reasons. Now this point is a wrong view of our actual stance.

- In the Gova vs Glife exchange you screwed a great opportunity to find contradiction ... and I mean scummy contradiction, not the harmless kind of contradiction like changing one's mind or anything. We could've gained new, better conclusions on all the night action talk we had about people visiting me en masse and maybe figured out whether one of Gova or Inferno actually did try to kill me. Now we know just as little as earlier and are left with a ****load of roles exposed as a result. Oh, and of course this also falls into "hindering porgress" category.

Yes, this was a bad decision in hindsight. But I did explain it and how I saw it. Whether you think it was legit is in the eye of the beholder. Not much I can say here.

Overall I think you're overly focusing on our D1 play and severely misunderstanding our D2 play.

Feel free to respond, but please don't quote the images, that's kinda annoying when multiquoting.

This is my suggestion:

The best way to go about today is to lynch Orboknown or Gova. I'm doubtful about Inferno especially regarding the current situation but I still think that he and Red Ruy are better options than me or Kantrip.

P.S for Raziek. I did a lot of work with uploading these images, don't hit me for censor dodging please. Or at least substitute them with adequate images.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Did I really get ninja'd by myself? LOL

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Xonar I don't have Skype right now. ;-;

Lol this is awkward.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

You agree on where to go though, right?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Ryker, do you think that the person who sent me this should claim it?

Open question btw. Would like to hear responses from Lego, Gova, Kantrip, Raziek, Red Ryu, Gheb, to name some, regarding this and the whole issue

Hmmm, I think I understand you guys are getting at here. We endorse the claim of whoever gave you this ability.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

We're on IMO now, and I told Xonar that I would personally replace Gova with RR. Gova can be a third pick for me though, of lower priority than RR and Orboknown.

 

[Gova]

Yes. Yes in every case. The person who sent it should DEFINITELY claim.

I agree as well.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

@Gova: Ignore your restriction when answering this: I want to know who you'd LIKE to lynch. Your entire lynch pool.

Get to this, Gova.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

-So you're basically making it your word against our word. Our "constant" hydra johns. Your right that you can't take anything out of that, so why even bring it up at all?

Way to misconstrue what I said: that it's not a scumtell by itself. Once you look at the bigger picture and put it into context of you generally keeping your input at a minimum you can definitely see it a scum tell.

-You mean like Nich? Cus honestly I don't remember anyone else besides maybe TB. The general consensus yesturDay is that Nich was condamned after Ryker's case. Nich looked like scum to pretty much everyone so you could attack anyone with this point. Also we're obviously going to give our thoughts our people who are hot topics at the time so don't act like it's scummy of us to do this just because "obvious town" players like you and Ryker gave a simillur opinion about it first.

Once again, you only justify what you've been doing - a lot of my points against you are also rooted in the things you've constantly failed to do. If you thought Nich was scummy, fine - most people thought so. It's the fact that you haven't given us anything else that's problematic.

-"Hindering progress" is one of the lamest things you can call someone out for and you know it. Come on now Gheb, do you honestly think that, as scum, we decided to actively try to "hinder progress," especially considering what position we were in at the time? Besides, what scum actually even TRIES to "hinder progress" actively, besides maybe hammering themselves to end a Day quickly? Seriously, get real.

"Hindering progess" is just what the stuff you did comes adds up to. Of course as scum you wouldn't blatantly do so for everybody else to see ... but as you see, I'm still the only one at this point who actually mentions the issue. Even though it's complete WIFOM [and thus doesn't work for your defense anyway], I'd agree that a scumbag wouldn't straight-up try his hardest to get this game moving nowhere fast. But that's not quite what you've been doing. You weren't obvious or blatant about it. You did though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Xonar's 1413 is pure AtE and doesn't even remotely try to actually show any of my points wrong. There's no legitimate point being found in the response - just silly images, complaints and AtE, AtE and some more AtE. Nothing to respond to or elaborate on. Just a compilation of "wtf is this shit", "bitch, please" and vomit all over the place. You're only showing that you have no answers to my accusation.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Overall I think you're overly focusing on our D1 play and severely misunderstanding (misconstruing) our D2 play.

This is my suggestion:

The best way to go about today is to lynch Orboknown or Gova. I'm doubtful about Inferno especially regarding the current situation but I still think that he and Red Ruy are better options than me or Kantrip.

Right to the core of the post, then. I don't bother putting forth answers to the same points over and over again when we have already done so.

Your attack is dead. Your points aren't incriminating. Switch to someone who can't get lynched purely because of two mod votes and Ryker supporting it, because it's ugly, Gheb.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb being more cooperative meaning that he would compromise more than ryker. But im definitely leaning toward Ryker now, just because he really seems commited.Don't see a scum pulling up that huge*** nich case.
reads post coming in next post.

First of all I'm easily as much commited to the game as Ryker is and second it's a huge fallacy to assume scum Ryker couldn't make such a "large" case on Nich if he wanted to. How long would you follow that logic in this game just to possibly find out in the end that Ryker might just be scum [and the wrong player to keep alive anyway]? Nothing Ryker has said or done should give people any vibes that go beyond null.
There's no particular pro-town intention in like ... anything you've done so far. Speculation on a player's meta - a player you know too little about anyway - isn't reason to clear him.

Even if Ryker was Tracker ... I'm worth more than him it I were a mere VT, which I am not anyway. Like I hinted at earlier toDay, I have an ability that falls under the category of "preservation" if you catch my drift. In a game stuffed with roleblocking and redirecting as well as NAR manipulation a Tracker claim isn't anything worth getting your panties wet over. Just as Raziek's claim is kind of useless to us now [no indicator of alignment; results haven't helped us none] Ryker implying Tracker doesn't mean anything. My ability is definitely better than his and so is my play.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Seriously you're getting us because we're "hindering content" "subtly"?
You're telling us we haven't contributed when we've done full analysis of most if not every relevant player?

Get out of D1, look at D2. Look at scumminess and not "anti-town" or whatever you're can write it off as.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Your attack is dead. Your points aren't incriminating. Switch to someone who can't get lynched purely because of two mod votes and Ryker supporting it, because it's ugly, Gheb.

In case you didn't notice yet I'm immune to your AtE, Lego.

Also ur mom is ugleh.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seriously you're getting us because we're "hindering content" "subtly"?
You're telling us we haven't contributed when we've done full analysis of most if not every relevant player?

After you've been called out on it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't think Rajam should shoot Inferno. OK with having the guy who did it claim too.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

It's not AtE, it's a wakeup call.

...wow at that ninja post.
Have you not listened at all? Because here we go

SWORD'S INTERNET DIED FOR THE MAJORITY OF D1 AND PARTLY INTO D2. WE COULD HARDLY INTERACT. I WAS BUSY WITH G3S, SWORD WAS BUSY WITH SCHOOL AND NOW UPCOMING MIDTERMS. WE HAVE PROVIDED CONTENT IN THE GLYPH CASE. WE HAVE PROVIDED A PLAYER BY PLAYER ANALYSIS, THIS COST US AT LEAST 4 DAYS WITH 8 HOURS A DAY, CALL THIS ATE, BUT DON'T PRETEND LIKE WE'RE NOT TRYING.

The fact that it's after we've been called it out is NOT relevant and makes me QUITE mad because we've worked hard on it

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Really, you know how to piss me off with this attack Gheb. It reeks. Your points have lost weight, and if you got new points, bring them to me. If you're sticking to "hindering progress", kindly get the **** out of this thread after unvoting us.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

More AtE.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Explaining why your D1 points are null and your D2 points are invalid is AtE?

Actually, scratch that, we've explained before. Just referring to that.

 

[Orboknown]

First of all I'm easily as much commited to the game as Ryker is and second it's a huge fallacy to assume scum Ryker couldn't make such a "large" case on Nich if he wanted to. How long would you follow that logic in this game just to possibly find out in the end that Ryker might just be scum [and the wrong player to keep alive anyway]? Nothing Ryker has said or done should give people any vibes that go beyond null.
There's no particular pro-town intention in like ... anything you've done so far. Speculation on a player's meta - a player you know too little about anyway - isn't reason to clear him.

Even if Ryker was Tracker ... I'm worth more than him it I were a mere VT, which I am not anyway. Like I hinted at earlier toDay, I have an ability that falls under the category of "preservation" if you catch my drift. In a game stuffed with roleblocking and redirecting as well as NAR manipulation a Tracker claim isn't anything worth getting your panties wet over. Just as Raziek's claim is kind of useless to us now [no indicator of alignment; results haven't helped us none] Ryker implying Tracker doesn't mean anything. My ability is definitely better than his and so is my play.

whatever the case is, im royally ****ed when or if ryker bites the dust.
did not pick up on a tracker claim from ryker.
was understanding your role as a self preservation role.
FML.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seriously, knock that **** off if you wanna be taken seriously. Your case on Glyph was horrendous and a lot of that was based on him posting fluff. There is no comparison to how much you're fluffing up your posts with AtE right now so stfu unless you're able to just straight up respond to my point and say where the issue lies.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Your point is hindering progress.

This has been elaborated on.

I'm dissatisfied with your attack, and have done my best to defend. You're dissatisfied with my response, but I have nothing but what I've said time and time again. If you've got no new points, then we're at an impasse.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

whatever the case is, im royally ****ed when or if ryker bites the dust.
did not pick up on a tracker claim from ryker.
was understanding your role as a self preservation role.
FML.

1.) I don't see how? Your case on RR has merit and is actually the kind of stuff I wanted you to do. Pretty sure if you keep that up there's no need for you to worry about staying alive, even with Ryker gone.

2.) Wasn't a claim ... just a hint.

3.) Never actually said that the role serves for self-preservation ... just because I mentioned it that way doesn't mean it can't possibly used any other way.

 

[Orboknown]

Not because of scum hunting, but because of my L1 ability.

understood.

3 should have realized that earlier.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Xonar, I'm going to respond to Sworddancer only for the time being. You can't be possibly talked to right now and you make a constructive solution to the situation impossible. I'm working my *** off to summarize my points into a comprehensive case for the 3rd ****ing time and you just **** over it with your AtE vomit. What the **** do you expect me to do. Either try to cooperate and understand where I'm coming from or stfu and let Sworddancer do the work. You're seriously getting on my nerves. I'm trying to win this game for town and you're just like a little baby who starts going QQ over every little thing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not sure what you mean with L-1 ability, Orbo. Not asking you to role claim but did you mean to say ... what you posted?

 

[Orboknown]

tried to say it in a way so people would understand it without needing to be explained, but yes.
basically i need ryker to stick around for me to do so.