Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[Gova]

Do stuff? Like what?

 

[Kantrip]

Also when are we going to get Ryker and Gheb to claim? For me the usefulness of their roles will be one of the main things to influence my decision on who to keep around. Barring that I have only personal reasons of "Ryker is a meanie". That and his scumread on me and Nich I know for sure have been off, and I'm not sure how many other reads of his are off. Other than that they really are my strongest townreads in this game. Nich was too for similarities to my own meta, but....

Anyways, I really don't like Red Ryu. His case on me was garbage and pretty much everyone can agree on that. He doesn't like me because he hates my D1 posts, he doesn't like my inactivity in D2, and he thinks that my not caring about my pre-game reads being null is a scumtell. He has also provided very little in the way of content that I can remember, something that is typical for his scum play. Scum Ryu lurks, simple as that.

Vote: Red Ryu

I'm also looking at the inactive bunch at the moment, and I still don't like that there are so many of them. I am really worried about LyLo. Orbo I am having trouble reading and I was hoping he would do more with regards to his Red Ryu scum read. I don't know how to read a slot like his.

@Rajam: Have you elaborated on that Inferno scum thing? Does it still stand as of now?

 

[Kantrip]

Do stuff? Like what?

In D1 there was conflicts with Nicholas that contained him that looked TvT to me. In fact, all of the conversations that had Nich in them looked almost IDENTICAL: Ryker vs Nich, Gheb vs Nich, and Legolas vs Nich.

Also, Legolas's initiative against Glyph. It just seems like he put a lot of effort into that, similar to Ryker with the Nich case. I don't agree with using Fluff so much as the basis of a scumread, and I don't think the case was particularly any good, but I think the effort going into that interaction was townie.

Glyph's initial reaction near the start of the Day was really defensive, but I think he mellowed out a bit and has been more reasonable lately. I'd say null on Glyph as far as reads go.

Raziek and Gova are two slots I need to look at again.

I like how Sang came into the game. Oh, and that reminds me:

@Sang: Yeah I kind of picked up what you were getting at with how curious you have been about my ability. I doubt that there is another person with the same ability, so I'm pretty sure there is some kind of redirecting going on. What I don't get is: Why would something be redirected from Rajam to Seph?

Two possibilities in my eyes:

1. Rajam can redirect things off of himself and chose Seph for some reason.
2. Some scum redirector figured a vig would be on Rajam so they decided to redirect off of Rajam and onto someone they wanted dead. The question then becomes: Why would they choose Sang? Because he was lined up to be replaced and they wanted to knock out whoever replaced in with a fresh perspective? -shrug-

It's not adding up to me.

 

[Kantrip]

Before explaining though, I need to ask something... Kantrip, are you sure you got roleblocked, or are you just guessing because your NKill didn't work?

This is rolefishing at this time.

You also ask the most pointless questions, Rajam. Do you look for a scumslip when you ask these, or is it just a creative way to express that you find someone scummy? You did it with Raziek when he talked about the Dancer role, as well.

 

[Kantrip]

Town
Gheb and Ryker

Leaning Town
Sang and Legolas

Null
Gova and Raziek because they could go one of two ways and I need to ISO them
Orbo and Rajam for activity reasons and I just don't know how to read them
Glyph because things have been pulling me both ways with him

Scummy to Some Degree
Red Ryu and Inferno

 

[Kantrip]

@Gheb: Between Gova, Raziek, and Glyph: You can kill one, make one safe until LyLo, and leave one as is. What do you do to each one?

@Raziek: Who is scummier between Red Ryu, Inferno, and Rajam to you?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Hmmmm, well okay then. Only two questions, both at Gheb and Ryker.

1. Even if you two interpret what we did as an anti-town move, why do you think that it is worthy of a vote (@Ryker, besides from anything else about us that you don't like)?

2. Both of you have stated suspicion against Kantrip. I want to know why. Mostly you Gheb. If you've already stated why somewhere else then feel free to quote it to me.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Request vote count

I think we have like a million MOD votes on us so be careful with the voting guys.

Kantrip those hydra johns were legit because my internet was out for like a week. It's discouraging for Xonar to have to go it alone/

 

[Gova]

Legolas, get at my 1149.

 

[Raziek]

@Raziek: Who is scummier between Red Ryu, Inferno, and Rajam to you?

Rajam really needs to die somehow, but he hasn't exactly been playing scummy per se, he just hasn't been.... playing.

I have a Town read on Inferno, that leaves Ruy as scummiest primarily by PoE, though I would rather Rajam die than him.

 

[Kantrip]

I agree that Rajam has been absent from actually playing this game, yes. When he DOES post he wastes time with useless stuff. That's why I TRIED to Split Punch him but somehow that got tampered with.

You think he's worth a lynch on?

 

[Raziek]

If we have no better lead than he, yes.

However, I doubt that will be the case given the amount of content to work with....

At the same time, this is the problem with Rajam. When he's Town, he's never a threat to scum. When he's Scum, he doesn't die unless crossfired, and no scum has any motivation to kill him.

He's gotta be lynched eventually, it's just a matter of when. I wouldn't be opposed to it toDay, but I still need to re-read the game again tomorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright I hope for some good insight and depth when you reread. Help me get a definitive read on your slot.

 

[Kantrip]

1. Raziek - Null. - might be willing to lynch if inactivity is a problem, but otherise sits at null for me. Can't remember much play wise.

2. Legolas - Leaning town. - Can't see why he is scum at all. I think his pushes on Glyph are entirely warrented along with the general pushes at everyone who targetted

3. Ryker - He is town. I refuse to beleieve otherwise, Nich killed himself, after reading all the stuff Ryker posted to get him lynched I refuse to beleive he would do this as scum with this much effort.

4. Orbo - Null - Sitting here atm, not much to say.

5. Inferno3044 - null, Got to remember how he plays, he's fine but I can't get a good read on him from his posts, would lynch but not someone I prefer to go for.

7. Kantrip - Scum - Please kill him. I hate his D1 play and his nonexistant D2 play is enough to make me want to kill him.

8. Gova - Leaning town. Why is this guy scum? Every post when he comes back to post is content. No fluff, no deflection, it's just pure content and thought. This isn't Gova from Ragnarok.

9. Red Ryu - eanut:

10. Rajam - Null, ignoring activity it's not a scum tell, would lynch if it was necessary but not to the point to of others like Kantrip and Glyph.

11. Sangfroid Warrior - Null, is he/she playing?, sorry can't remember gender atm, If she posts more I can get a read, need to look at question wise.

12. Glyph - Scum - hate him, he has no town motivation from what I can see from his responses outside of deflection to his past posts.

13. Gheb - town, even with his suspicion of me I like his posting style to look around at the roaster, and contribute a fair amount.

~

Still working on my reread of Gheb and Ryker, Kantrip can wait, I got my play for the day

unvote
Vote: Glyph

I knew something else bugged me. I don't like the sudden switch off of me and onto Glyph. It doesn't feel natural and I think Red Ryu hated my slot much more than what this post lets on about his feelings for Glyph's slot.

Red Ryu, can you lay out better points for why you suspect Glyph all of a sudden?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kantrip, in case you haven't realized it yet most claims have not been very helpful - the few ones that are confirmed to be likely true have not done anything to give us a better idea about that player's alignment. At the moment I'm a bit concerned about people making an uneducated decision on whether Ryker or I should die because they might be misled by a strong ability claim.

I think this decision should come down only to how us two have played this game - unless most people feel that they need a claim in order to make up your mind.

@Ryker: Do you agree with this? I think the time's coming where people need to come to a decision.

@Gheb: Between Gova, Raziek, and Glyph: You can kill one, make one safe until LyLo, and leave one as is. What do you do to each one?

Don't see why I should answer this.

FoS Kantrip

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hmmmm, well okay then. Only two questions, both at Gheb and Ryker.

1. Even if you two interpret what we did as an anti-town move, why do you think that it is worthy of a vote (@Ryker, besides from anything else about us that you don't like)?

Because it lines up with all the issues I had with you all game. It's not like I didn't openly voice why I dislike you during almost the entire game, is it? It's just that I couldn't clearly find a scum / anti-town intent between your lack of genuine, fresh input and your constant hydra johns. Out of context those are all null-tells. But within the new context - you directly interfering a promising exchange - I can see the more sinister side of what you've been doing so far.

2. Both of you have stated suspicion against Kantrip. I want to know why. Mostly you Gheb. If you've already stated why somewhere else then feel free to quote it to me.

Most of it can be found towards the end of Day 1. I'm still pointing out things I don't like about him on Day 2 ... to give a really short, percise summary it's his attempts to please all sides that make me dislike him the most. When I look at his scum and town picks he's looking for agreement by putting "obvtownies" in the "obvtownlists" alongside looking for agreement by randomly putting a suspicious player in there as well. His scumpicks seem entirely based on a "nobody will disagree with the lynch of these guys"-logic. For all I can see, he has no reason to believe Red Ryu to be scum [and that's coming from somebody who voted Ryu until recently] and Inferno is just safe / convenient to have in a scumlist.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rajam really needs to die somehow, but he hasn't exactly been playing scummy per se, he just hasn't been.... playing.

I have a Town read on Inferno, that leaves Ruy as scummiest primarily by PoE, though I would rather Rajam die than him.

I agree that Rajam has been absent from actually playing this game, yes. When he DOES post he wastes time with useless stuff. That's why I TRIED to Split Punch him but somehow that got tampered with.

After Walgreens I may actually be willing to cut Rajam some slack for now. Right now it seems that him randomly digging up past information is more distracting to more recent issues than helpful. But it also may contain some interesting things that - with a new perspective caused by a flip or a NA result - turn out to be useful in retrospect that might've been missed back when it was originally posted. He was also able to provide some [dis-]connections at the end of Walgreens D2 - some of which turned out to be true upon the game's end.

If he doesn't reach that point by toMorrow however, I'm willing to accept the idea that he's stalling / trolling and needs to die. Atm lynching Lego, Ryu or Kantrip takes top priority to me and if it's about "getting rid of somebody" Inferno has to die before Rajam imho.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In case I'm dying toDay:

Scum:
Lego
Ryu / Kantrip

Should be mistrusted:
Raziek
Ryker

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[...] and if it's about "getting rid of somebody" Inferno has to die before Rajam imho.

Adding Orbo to that list for now too unless he's getting behind his "homework" soon. I really want him to look into Red Ryu ... not only do we need stances from him but fresh input that works regardless of NA / claims would be really appreciated right about now as well.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I don't really have time but I'd just like to respond to this real quick.

Because it lines up with all the issues I had with you all game. It's not like I didn't openly voice why I dislike you during almost the entire game, is it? It's just that I couldn't clearly find a scum / anti-town intent between your lack of genuine, fresh input and your constant hydra johns. Out of context those are all null-tells. But within the new context - you directly interfering a promising exchange - I can see the more sinister side of what you've been doing so far.

A lack of genuine, fresh input?
CONSTANT hydra johns?

Sorry but I don't see it.

Meh will have to think about Red Ruy. Your point about Kantrip doing the appeasement strategy is true. Still don't think that he would've done what he did at the end of D1 as scum.

I'll be back tonight.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What exactly is it that he wouldn't have done though? Randomly buddy up a doomed townie?

 

[Orboknown]

gah like i said guys not much posting to be done this weekend. That's just how my schedule usually lines up. i will finish that thing on RR.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

What exactly is it that he wouldn't have done though? Randomly buddy up a doomed townie?

I wouldn't put it like that. He didn't really seem concerned with buddying Nich, more so I simply think he was trying to stop his lynch. Seems like a risky position for a scum Kantrip to put himself into when it was already pretty clear that Nich was doomed.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Okay, so I missed a lot. This post might be fairly long so I apologize in advanced.

I would execute Gheb. Ryker is easier to cooperate with and is more open with town and in some cases can even be bargained with. Gheb is more closeted and sometimes won't give his opinion or answer questions when asked for them.

But Ryker also has a tendency to tunnel and lead town in bad directions; he doesn't think as logically as Gheb and relies on pressure and gambits to get his reads. He can be bargained with and cooperated with only if you agree with what he says. Note: I'm not saying Gheb is better to keep alive than Ryker, I'm just pointing out the flaws in this.

Definitely some good points, but not fully sold yet. I do think Glyph hasn't committed many stances if any and he points out a lot of fluff, but I wouldn't say Glyph is pinned. If it were close to the deadline, I would be willing to vote him. Unless Legolas has more information/reasons to share, I don't wanna vote him just yet.

Inferno, would you really only vote Glyph if you were sold on it by some other person? Cuz that's not screaming "Look at me, I'm a sheep" to anyone.

I'd rather just throw out the idea of relying on roles, claims and abilities at all [at least for now] and declare that my mains scum picks - purely based on play - are Ryu, Kantrip and Raziek, with Lego and Ryker being null reads / not worthy of trust.

I agree with this almost completely. We shouldn't rely in them, but, they are still useful and ignoring them even just a little bit could hurt town, especially with the way the setup is turning out to look like.

Sang I am sorry for calling you a guy.

please forgive me.

Nah, it's alright. You are forgiven.

@Sang: Yeah I kind of picked up what you were getting at with how curious you have been about my ability. I doubt that there is another person with the same ability, so I'm pretty sure there is some kind of redirecting going on. What I don't get is: Why would something be redirected from Rajam to Seph?

Two possibilities in my eyes:

1. Rajam can redirect things off of himself and chose Seph for some reason.
2. Some scum redirector figured a vig would be on Rajam so they decided to redirect off of Rajam and onto someone they wanted dead. The question then becomes: Why would they choose Sang? Because he was lined up to be replaced and they wanted to knock out whoever replaced in with a fresh perspective? -shrug-

It's not adding up to me.

Well, the only logical thing to me, from what you are saying, is that Rajam was able to redirect that onto me, since redirecting usually requires that person to be targeted. From a town perspective, I can understand targeting Seph because he was completely inactive. Nobody knew until near the end of the night phase that I was replacing Seph. That would have effectively gotten rid of a questionable player. From a scum perspective, it would just be adding another kill onto a townie. Decision didn't matter.

Also I realized due to the existence of the calculator class, we should be jotting down what everyone's post number is at every Night phase. That way we can decipher who may or may not have been roleblocked by a calculator.

What use does this have to us? Just because we know who the calculator is doesn't mean that it will give us any help. That leaves everyone but one person open. Hoping that this will help us is just wasting our time.

 

[Kantrip]

Gheb, the question was just a fancy way of me asking who you liked most out of that group and who you thought was most scummy from that group. What's wrong with it? I'm taking the three slots I'm confused about and asking a townread to give their input on them.

With regards to your point about appeasing everyone, I'd ask that you find examples. If you try to say that having both Ryker AND Nich as a townread is an example of pleasing everyone then I'll start shaking my head now. I seriously don't get that point at all. Is it because I've been co-operative? After me vs Bardull in Adventure Time, I want to avoid going balls-to-the-wall ever again....

 

[Kantrip]

Nah Sang I could easily see a redirector who does something like chooses one player whose action they redirect onto another player of their choice.

Are you understanding what I'm saying about the calculator thing?
If we jot down numbers of posts every Night phase, then we can keep those numbers for when the thread opens again and they inevitably change. That way we know what every person's post count WAS at during the Night, an which ones were divisible by which numbers. In doing that we find out all the possible roleblocks due to calculator.

 

[Kantrip]

Oh yeah and Gheb, I think you an Ryker should claim just as someone claims when they are put at L-1. One of you is guaranteed to die, so why not get claims to help in our decision? It's different than NA speculation.

 

[Raziek]

Kantrip, the obviously problem with that lies in that we have no idea when OS resolves said actions.

Does he take posts at the time the lynch is reached? Time of the flip? Time the calculator sends in their actions? End of the night?

There's no way to know, and I guarantee you OS won't tell us.

 

[Kantrip]

Raziek I think the answer is straightforward.

Post counts don't change in the Night phase. OS resolves actions in the Night phase. OS uses post counts from during the Night phase.

 

[Kantrip]

Either way, it's something I'm going to be doing just because it's available to me. It may be helpful, we may not even have a calcuator.

 

[Raziek]

Wow, I'm an idiot. This WHOLE time I thought it was ACTUAL post count.

Like, my 4405. Not the number of posts in thread.

Wow. Well.

Excuse while I go walk this stupid boner off.

 

[Raziek]

Excuse me*

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

???? If you think I am scum, wouldn't you be glad that Ryker was voting for me? Also, didn't you think I was scum in general? Wouldn't you want the pressure Glyph was giving me to continue???

Once again, my reasoning was that discussion (and pressure) based on false interpretation of night actions and roles would be fruitless. This also stands for pressure, as pressure isn't pressure when it's based on a miscommunication.

Making larger post showing where my thoughts are at, might be done tonight.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Oh and please refrain from voting us until a vote-count has been posted.

 

[Inferno3044]

Inferno, would you really only vote Glyph if you were sold on it by some other person? Cuz that's not screaming "Look at me, I'm a sheep" to anyone.

Okay that was probably bad wording. I wouldn't say that Glyph was scum right now (although I'm not fully opposed to his lynch) but if Legolas made a really good case that made me think "Wow! this guy has some really good points I didn't see" I would vote Glyph. Yeah it's a sheepish vote.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Nah Sang I could easily see a redirector who does something like chooses one player whose action they redirect onto another player of their choice.

Maybe. I've never seen it before but that doesn't mean it can't be there, I guess.

Are you understanding what I'm saying about the calculator thing?
If we jot down numbers of posts every Night phase, then we can keep those numbers for when the thread opens again and they inevitably change. That way we know what every person's post count WAS at during the Night, an which ones were divisible by which numbers. In doing that we find out all the possible roleblocks due to calculator.

I must not be understanding. Even if you do that, there are still too many options of what could or could not have happened. We don't even know if there is a calculator in this game. Also, there are 15 possibilities of what the outcome could be, multiplied by the number of people who have posts evenly divisible by that number. It doesn't have to be a roleblock; there are 4 other powers that a calculator can use. From what I understand, the calculator chooses a number then the power. They don't correspond. I feel like this will be a huge waste of time on speculation and that, in the end, it won't really help us. Feel free to do whatever you wish, though, but be careful. Scum could have this ability as well.

Okay that was probably bad wording. I wouldn't say that Glyph was scum right now (although I'm not fully opposed to his lynch) but if Legolas made a really good case that made me think "Wow! this guy has some really good points I didn't see" I would vote Glyph. Yeah it's a sheepish vote.

Alright. I guess my real question was: Do you think Glyph could be scum?

 

[Kantrip]

I must not be understanding. Even if you do that, there are still too many options of what could or could not have happened. We don't even know if there is a calculator in this game. Also, there are 15 possibilities of what the outcome could be, multiplied by the number of people who have posts evenly divisible by that number. It doesn't have to be a roleblock; there are 4 other powers that a calculator can use. From what I understand, the calculator chooses a number then the power. They don't correspond. I feel like this will be a huge waste of time on speculation and that, in the end, it won't really help us. Feel free to do whatever you wish, though, but be careful. Scum could have this ability as well.

All I'm saying is that I will write down every player's post count each Night phase. That way we know what everyone's post count was divisible by, since the ability affects ALL PLAYERS who have a post count divisible by the number they choose.

This can be useful for later if we find out we have a calculator. Otherwise, I'm just writing down the numbers for nothing. The actual ABILITY used doesn't concern me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I wouldn't put it like that. He didn't really seem concerned with buddying Nich, more so I simply think he was trying to stop his lynch. Seems like a risky position for a scum Kantrip to put himself into when it was already pretty clear that Nich was doomed.

What THE HELL is risky about that? Nich's fate was sealed and all that was left was to collect the townie points for defending the dead townie. Very common play by bad scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

But Ryker also has a tendency to tunnel and lead town in bad directions; he doesn't think as logically as Gheb and relies on pressure and gambits to get his reads. He can be bargained with and cooperated with only if you agree with what he says. Note: I'm not saying Gheb is better to keep alive than Ryker, I'm just pointing out the flaws in this.

I really dunno if I should feel insulted or not. Also, someone didn't read any of Day 1 apparently.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh yeah and Gheb, I think you an Ryker should claim just as someone claims when they are put at L-1. One of you is guaranteed to die, so why not get claims to help in our decision? It's different than NA speculation.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Fishing so hard.