Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Lego today.
Kantrip tomorrow/tonight.
RR/Rajam if the game isn't over.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, food for thought. Sang's claimed death timer won't take effect until after a three man scum team could have already won assuming we don't get two more correct protects (factoring one night kill every night).

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

We've been building a post detailing our reads and, because of our disorientation, everything will be reevaluated. Kantrip will, obviously, also be mentioned.
To-do: Kantrip, Gheb, Ryker, Raziek.

What THE HELL is risky about that? Nich's fate was sealed and all that was left was to collect the townie points for defending the dead townie. Very common play by bad scum.

I havan't really seen it that much, especially from a bad scum PoV. Nevertheless, instead of just going with the flow and lynching Nich, which would of been the easiest thing to do, Kantrip instead took the unpopular side.

I can't see a scum Kantrip activelly putting himself against a pretty much guernented mislynch. It would of been much easy for him to of just went with the lynch then to of put himself in opposition to players like you

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I really dunno if I should feel insulted or not. Also, someone didn't read any of Day 1 apparently.

Ah, but I did. You must not have read my catch-up post. Tl;dr? Anyways, Gheb tends to tunnel as well. You just did it more directly D1 and, as soon as Kanty started protecting Nich, you started attacking him. The other stuff was based purely on meta. I have yet to decide which of you it would be beneficial to keep.

Also, food for thought. Sang's claimed death timer won't take effect until after a three man scum team could have already won assuming we don't get two more correct protects (factoring one night kill every night).

Well then we had best not waste the Days we have.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright, I'm leaving myself a safety net here of one.

Here's the lynch pool:

Legolas - Needs to die IMMEDIATELY! Everything he's said today has been so very, VERY wrong. This is after his aggressive sidelining of Day 1. His case on Glyph was atrocious and filled with things pulled out of context. This wasn't a case born of suspicion. This was a case made by looking at the Who Posted and forcing things to appear scummy. Even his response to GLife was bad. GLife responded to points and he spewed out the same nearly identical information.

Kantrip - Scummy as ****. Replaced scummy as **** T-Block. I've been over why he should die in Day 1 and the beginning of Day 2. I'll reiterate if need be.

Sang - Replaced a null slot. Hasn't done anything to remedy that. Doesn't need to be lynched until she's supposed to be dead, but it is IMPERATIVE that we find scum today or tomorrow.

RR - Continues to remain null.



Everyone else that I can think of stands better than those four.

Gheb - Town read. He's indy if he's anything. His constant mistrust of myself with absolutely no follow-up is the only thing that bothers me. Where he does actually go in and pressure I've agreed with him one hundred percent. I'm still more important to have me than him.

Raz - Watcher fits. Lines up with his play. I set pitfalls for him to fall into forever and a day when his claim came out and none of them tripped him up in the slightest. Scum watcher is a possibility, but I don't see it. Everyone who keeps tossing his name around for a lynch needs to be under much heavier scrutiny because they never seem to back it up.

Gova - I didn't like him coming into today. Basically, I didn't like the way he aggressively tried to stay null. I like him better after today. He's gone from null lean scum to null lean town.

Glyph - My buddy. Dude is town in my book. A Lego scum flip is basically going to clear him for everyone else to see as well.

Rajam - Lean town. LEAN. I think that I'm beginning to comprehend how his brain works, it just doesn't work very well. He's trying to help, but he's just ALWAYS too slow and out of date.

Inferno - This mother ****er. I'm not gonna lie. I have him as town and I don't remember why for the life of me. He's a sheep, born and bred. If I had to pick one person to add to my lynch pool, it would probably be him.

Orbo - Orbo, Orbo, Orbo. The subject of much debate. What Nich took as scum tells, I saw as null if not noob town tells. Nich's case holds no ammo over any other inactive player. Orbo needs to stay in the game. Don't let him fade, not because that makes him scum, but because it makes him impossible to read. Check his input and see what his intentions are. He sits above Inferno and below Rajam on my town/scum list.

 

[Kantrip]

Ryker I really don't understand your reading anymore. Right now your lynch pool is 1 for 4 with who I agree with. How are Legolas's intents scummy? I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Kantrip]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Fishing so hard.

This isn't fishing. Learn the definition of fishing. Role fishing is NOT flat-out ASKING for a CONDEMNED PLAYER to claim. One of you are dying toDay, so why risk eliminating an important role/ability when we DON'T ****ING HAVE TO?

 

[Kantrip]

Basically I think Ryker should have his town leading permit revoked and all of his sheep should promptly perish in a fire.

 

[Kantrip]

As far as his scumreads go, I'd like the record to show he hasn't gone over ****.

"I want you to die" and "I hate you so much" are not cases.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's a good thing I don't need your scum team to vote with my Kantrip.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

As far as his scumreads go, I'd like the record to show he hasn't gone over ****.

"I want you to die" and "I hate you so much" are not cases.

Go die.

You ignore anything I've said about T-Block on Day 1.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't care what you've said about T-block. I don't know why he did or said anything that he did or said. I don't know what led him to subsequently replace out. All I know is MY play.

You said yourself I have been just as scummy as T-block, and I've yet to see that substantiated.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Ryker, I can see where you're coming from with our case, but you're looking from the wrong perspective.

We stepped back once we reached an impasse. We never intended to lynch off that case alone. It was not a strong case at all. Yes, I saw that, but it did provide information and moved the game along. It was not a case born of pure suspicion, it was a case made by looking at how we could provide information and move the game along, getting reads along the way.

Also, aggressively sidelining Day1? *****, last time I checked, most people had a town read on us Day1.

Glyph,

Spoiler

I've talked about this man a lot. My dislike lies in his lack of stances and the fact that his scumhunting has been lackluster. But looking at his overall intent and feeling I get, his posts just tend to scream town at this point. It's a conflict between gut and face value for me. There's something inside me saying this guy can't be scum.
I guess that Glyph's fluff isn't really a tell for him, but that it really is just his style of talking. I'm still kinda worried but his switch in stances from frustered town Nich to scum Nich, as that seems kinda oppertunistic, but nevertheless I CAN see where he was coming from with that... sorta. Overall Day 1 play seems too relaxed for scum and his gambits read townie, while results may lack.

 

[Kantrip]

I mean, I'd understand if Ryker said I was null or something and had replaced into a bad slot.

The fact that he has no reason for me being scum but says that I have been very scummy is proof that he tunnels HARD.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't care what you've said about T-block. I don't know why he did or said anything that he did or said. I don't know what led him to subsequently replace out. All I know is MY play.

You said yourself I have been just as scummy as T-block, and I've yet to see that substantiated.

Your behavior with regard to Nich doesn't line up with a townie perspective. You've got no reason to believe he was town and haven't backed it up.

Your play hasn't accomplished anything to this point.

You're role fishing like a mother ****er.

Your reads are consistent with what I expect scum Kantrip to want to go through.

Your night action is conveniently unconfirmable until scum can have won and didn't even do what you claimed it to do.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, I can see where you're coming from with our case, but you're looking from the wrong perspective.

We stepped back once we reached an impasse. We never intended to lynch off that case alone. It was not a strong case at all. Yes, I saw that, but it did provide information and moved the game along. It was not a case born of pure suspicion, it was a case made by looking at how we could provide information and move the game along, getting reads along the way.

Also, aggressively sidelining Day1? *****, last time I checked, most people had a town read on us Day1.

I don't care about what you say you intended. It NEVER read to me that you didn't intend to act on that case and I have no reason to take your word over my own observations.



Last time I checked, I didn't have a town read on you. Last time I checked, you're good at getting positive reviews from sheep (F&L/G3S). You don't even deny the accusation, you just try and change the subject.

 

[Kantrip]

Your behavior with regard to Nich doesn't line up with a townie perspective. You've got no reason to believe he was town and haven't backed it up.

Untrue. I said that ALL of his interactions SCREAMED TvT and he reminded me a lot of how I react to pressure. Keyword: badly. I saw town that was backed into a corner by a tunneling Ryker. You know, it doesn't matter what alignment you are in that situation: When all of town is against you you WILL do scummy things.

Your play hasn't accomplished anything to this point.

I'm not sure if I should call this untrue or ask you what you mean by it. What constitutes "accomplishing something"? I've definitely been asking questions and scumhunting. I have laid out my stances and proposed ideas. I was ACTIVELY trying to change the lynch from what I thought would be a mislynch, and I'd say I've accomplished more than a great number of player's in this game. I will not accept this as a point.

You're role fishing like a mother ****er.

VERY BIG exaggeration. Tell me where I've been rolefishing BESIDES saying I thought the execute targets should claim.

Your reads are consistent with what I expect scum Kantrip to want to go through.

Baseless speculation based on near nonexistant scum play? You were hardly involved in the ONLY game I've ever gotten scum. I'd expect Swords, the mod of that game, to know my scum play the best. Followed by people who were relevant in that game. This is BAD meta.

Your night action is conveniently unconfirmable until scum can have won and didn't even do what you claimed it to do.

It's pretty confirmed that my Night Action exists. It got redirected to Sang, apparently, but what about it is NOT confirmable? Are you giong to wait until Sang is dead to consider that confirmable? Fine. Then how is Raziek's claim confirmable? Yours? Gova's? Inferno's?

No one's claim is confirmable, and so that's not an acceptable point in a case. The fact that I have claimed an ability that you can't confirm is a NULL tell COMPLETELY.

So we have a false accusation, a flat-out lie, an extreme exaggeration, some bad meta, and an unconfirmable claim.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I don't care about what you say you intended. It NEVER read to me that you didn't intend to act on that case and I have no reason to take your word over my own observations.



Last time I checked, I didn't have a town read on you. Last time I checked, you're good at getting positive reviews from sheep (F&L/G3S). You don't even deny the accusation, you just try and change the subject.

What, can I even deny accusations like this? When I say something, it is overruled with "buuuut I see it THIS way". Hell, what the **** is aggressive sidelining anyway?

Getting positive reviews from sheep... like FL? You mean like the entire ****ing game including you? Or how Kuz in G3S said "I will kill myself if Xonar is scum"?

No town read on me?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14074358&postcount=579
"Like Legolas as a whole, lean town"


I get the impression that you're scum goggling me.

 

[Kantrip]

I want to move my read on Ryker down, but would it even make sense for scum to be up for execution?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I get the impression that you're scum goggling me.

Scratch that. You ARE scum goggling us.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Untrue. I said that ALL of his interactions SCREAMED TvT and he reminded me a lot of how I react to pressure. Keyword: badly. I saw town that was backed into a corner by a tunneling Ryker. You know, it doesn't matter what alignment you are in that situation: When all of town is against you you WILL do scummy things.

You know what? Our interactions scream SvT and I know I'm town, so you must be scum.

YOU'RE STATEMENT IS EMPTY! IT MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OTHER THAN YOU WANT TO GO ON RECORD AS HAVING NICH AS TOWN!

You accomplish nothing without backing that statement and that's exactly what you wanted to do. You never wanted to derail the lynch, just go on record as having said you were against it.

I'm not sure if I should call this untrue or ask you what you mean by it. What constitutes "accomplishing something"? I've definitely been asking questions and scumhunting. I have laid out my stances and proposed ideas. I was ACTIVELY trying to change the lynch from what I thought would be a mislynch, and I'd say I've accomplished more than a great number of player's in this game. I will not accept this as a point.

Let me rephrase it. Everything you've done has had no soul behind it. You're not trying to lynch scum, you're trying to sit there and not have anyone look at you. That, and you're trying not to let people lynch your scummates.

VERY BIG exaggeration. Tell me where I've been rolefishing BESIDES saying I thought the execute targets should claim.

Execute targets shouldn't claim. That's the whole point. It's not a big exaggeration. It's there in black and white.

Baseless speculation based on near nonexistant scum play? You were hardly involved in the ONLY game I've ever gotten scum. I'd expect Swords, the mod of that game, to know my scum play the best. Followed by people who were relevant in that game. This is BAD meta.

Don't twist my meaning.

I never mentioned meta. Your reads are where a scum player in your slot wants the reads to be. You have baseless town reads on scummy slots and an extreme lack of definitive scum reads.

It's pretty confirmed that my Night Action exists. It got redirected to Sang, apparently, but what about it is NOT confirmable? Are you giong to wait until Sang is dead to consider that confirmable? Fine. Then how is Raziek's claim confirmable? Yours? Gova's? Inferno's?

No, it's not. You've got someone saying she's affected, but that's not even who you targeted. It doesn't take effect until after it would be too late. You can't replicate the feat. I'd be GLAD to have you target me with such an ability in order to prove it exists, but you claim you can't.

Raz's claim is backed up by THREE actions, so you're stretching your point there. Mine is backed by Raz's action. However, that's beside the point as it really only matters WHEN YOU COMBINE IT WITH A SCUM READ!

Seriously, what the hell does saying that other people's actions are unconfirmable do when other people aren't even the matter at hand.

No one's claim is confirmable, and so that's not an acceptable point in a case. The fact that I have claimed an ability that you can't confirm is a NULL tell COMPLETELY.

It's a supplementary fact showing just how convenient that everything you've done has been. In conjunction with the rest of your play, point stands.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What, can I even deny accusations like this? When I say something, it is overruled with "buuuut I see it THIS way". Hell, what the **** is aggressive sidelining anyway?

Getting positive reviews from sheep... like FL? You mean like the entire ****ing game including you? Or how Kuz in G3S said "I will kill myself if Xonar is scum"?

No town read on me?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14074358&postcount=579
"Like Legolas as a whole, lean town"


I get the impression that you're scum goggling me.

When in the hell did I say I wanted you to defend yourself? Where in the hell did you get the idea that you have a right to defend yourself against your own damning actions. Your only hope at this point is that the interpretation of your actions falls correctly.

Jesus, tearing my posts out of isolation. That post is LONG before the end of the day.

You're simply furthering my point that bad players having a town read on you at the end of Day One is meaningless. Why did you even bring it up?

Again though, you ignore the point of my original post: you sat on your *** and did nothing but appear to be doing something throughout Day One.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

2v1 odds are still in my favor.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

When in the hell did I say I wanted you to defend yourself? Where in the hell did you get the idea that you have a right to defend yourself against your own damning actions. Your only hope at this point is that the interpretation of your actions falls correctly.

Again though, you ignore the point of my original post: you sat on your *** and did nothing but appear to be doing something throughout Day One.

Am I allowed to defend myself from this point, your highness?

Seriously though, I'd love for you to point stuff out instead of meaningless words. This is getting annoying.


It ain't 2v1 though, but good attempt at AtE. I don't think you're scum, simply goggling really hard here.

 

[Kantrip]

You know what? Our interactions scream SvT and I know I'm town, so you must be scum.

I could use the same logic right back at you here.
However, I'd rather you elaborate on this. In what way do these actions scream SvT?

Or are you just saying empty logic with no backing again?

YOU'RE STATEMENT IS EMPTY! IT MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OTHER THAN YOU WANT TO GO ON RECORD AS HAVING NICH AS TOWN!

You accomplish nothing without backing that statement and that's exactly what you wanted to do. You never wanted to derail the lynch, just go on record as having said you were against it.

This is how you perceive it so it's not like there's any way to defend from this, is there? I pretty clearly said DURING D1 to NUMEROUS people that I wanted to lynch someone different. I advocated a Rajam lynch or a lynch on an inactive player, and I said DURING D1 that Nich was town AND WHY.

Let me rephrase it. Everything you've done has had no soul behind it. You're not trying to lynch scum, you're trying to sit there and not have anyone look at you. That, and you're trying not to let people lynch your scummates.

Again, something that can't be PROVEN nor DISPROVEN. This is like a religious debate or something, and you're on about me not having a soul.

Execute targets shouldn't claim. That's the whole point. It's not a big exaggeration. It's there in black and white.

I don't understand why.
Either way, you can't find any other instances of me "ROLEFISHING LIKE A OTHER****ER"?

Don't twist my meaning.

I never mentioned meta. Your reads are where a scum player in your slot wants the reads to be. You have baseless town reads on scummy slots and an extreme lack of definitive scum reads.

Okay then it's not meta. I misunderstood when you said "scum Kantrip". It's just another case of WIFOM like most of your points have degraded into.

No, it's not. You've got someone saying she's affected, but that's not even who you targeted. It doesn't take effect until after it would be too late. You can't replicate the feat. I'd be GLAD to have you target me with such an ability in order to prove it exists, but you claim you can't.

Raz's claim is backed up by THREE actions, so you're stretching your point there. Mine is backed by Raz's action. However, that's beside the point as it really only matters WHEN YOU COMBINE IT WITH A SCUM READ!

Whoa whoa whoa hold on right there. Confirming that someone targeted a specific player is not CONFIRMING THEIR ACTION. Nobody is being confirmed by Raz. They could EASILY be a lying killer. Where is it proven that Inferno hasted Gheb? It's not. This. Point. Is. BAD.

Seriously, what the hell does saying that other people's actions are unconfirmable do when other people aren't even the matter at hand.

It proves that you're tunneling me by trying to use a point that's not exclusive to me against me exlusively. It's like making an anti-campaign for a politician saying he's a ba choice to elect because he performs speeches.

It's a supplementary fact showing just how convenient that everything you've done has been. In conjunction with the rest of your play, point stands.

It's got nothing to supplement.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Lego, the thing is. You're asking me to point out an entire approach to a Day phase.

And no, you can't, because the actions are there and they speak for you.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Lego, the thing is. You're asking me to point out an entire approach to a Day phase.

And no, you can't, because the actions are there and they speak for you.

Pff. Fair enough, from your PoV.

Still think you're goggling our slot hard.

So, to have it black on white, the approach to D1 phase was "aggressive sidelining" and D2 was "mis-lynch Glyph"?

 

[Kantrip]

Actively opposing the Nich lynch along with a short blurb of why I disagree with it.
Citing examples that support my reasoning.
An additional example.
Giving players I don't like.
Suggesting an alternative lynch from my list of scumpicks.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I do think scum can be up for execution.
Ryker moving down to null.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh my God, Kantrip. That twist is DISGUSTING!

The first thing you quoted is taken completely out of context. It was an example of just why your bull**** doesn't hold up to investigation and you instead steamrolled over it and tried to turn it on me as a key pillar of why I want you lynched when it has nothing to do with it.



Where did you say why Nich was town? Quotes or it didn't happen. These quotes had better include detailed analysis of why the major points that I brought up don't hold up.




Kantrip, don't argue WIFOM with me boy because I am the goddamn MASTER. WIFOM is anything that can't be proven or disproven, however, it has a place in EVERY case. Any player with enough common sense can create a he said/she said for his actions to hold up against accusations. At the core, every case is WIFOM. It's your behavior and the probable motive behind it that helps discern alignment. The thing about religious debates that you're not recognizing is that I'm not appealing to the preacher, I'm trying to sway his congregation.

So, in short, I really don't give a **** about your explanation of your actions because it doesn't match up. What does matter is what Raz, Gova, Glyph, Inferno, Rajam, and Orbo think.




Are you kidding me? You just strawmanned my response into oblivion WITH A LIE! Raz is confirmed to have targeted Gheb and he is confirmed to have the correct number of targets. That's about as confirmed watcher as a man can get, but AGAIN, that's beside the point.

No, it's not. You've got someone saying she's affected, but that's not even who you targeted. It doesn't take effect until after it would be too late. You can't replicate the feat. I'd be GLAD to have you target me with such an ability in order to prove it exists, but you claim you can't.

Raz's claim is backed up by THREE actions, so you're stretching your point there. Mine is backed by Raz's action. However, that's beside the point as it really only matters WHEN YOU COMBINE IT WITH A SCUM READ!

YOU STRAIGHT UP IGNORED THE CORE ISSUE!






The remainder of your post operates from the perspective that nothing else I've said is valid which is a flat-out lie.

 

[Kantrip]

Oh yeah, I missed this one.

 

[Kantrip]

That's also another crumb for my ability which Ryker doesn't seem to believe I have.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Actively opposing the Nich lynch along with a short blurb of why I disagree with it.

You think he's town because you're applying your own meta to another player's slot.

Not a good enough reason. I'll give you a shot though. Let's see.

Citing examples that support my reasoning.

Your reasoning cited here is one post where literally all Nich asks is "What reasons, Inferno?"

One post that you openly admitted would be easy to fake.

One post where you try and derail me without touching my arguments and instead claiming it was for "personal reasons."

An additional example.

One post where Nich asks Inferno to answer him.



So ends your defense of Nich. NONE of it is solid. None of it should lead you to be so vehemently opposed to his wagon. THAT'S why I claim ulterior motive.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh yeah, I missed this one.

This simply restates that you don't think Nich is scum and tries to say you oppose my case without actually tackling it. No backing is found within this post.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's also another crumb for my ability which Ryker doesn't seem to believe I have.

No, your crumb is there. I don't dispute that. Hell, T-Block's crumb was probably legitimately planned. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter two ****s because crumbing a delayed vig is easy and doesn't even have to be outed if they don't want to. Hell, should the situation arise, the results can even be forged.

 

[Kantrip]

What, you expected me to tackle your entire case?

My town read on him wasn't the only reason. He was one of the more active posters at the time and I knew he would be more valuable than half the playerlist as town. He also had a valuable role that was not worth discarding. Compiling these onto disagreeing with your case against him and finding his intents townie I wanted to change the lynch. A Rajam lynch would have been much better.

You asked for examples of when I SAID my reasons for opposing the lynch. My townread came from every post of his. I really didn't see a Nich post that I agreed had scummy intent.

 

[Kantrip]

How can the delayed vig be forged when the target is INFORMED?

 

[Kantrip]

Bloody hell. I promised myself not to get so worked up over mafia.

Taking a break.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

How can the delayed vig be forged when the target is INFORMED?

I'm sorry. I don't believe you ever crumbed that the target was informed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it ever came out until Sang told us she was informed. Could be wrong, but you claiming it after claiming to have been role blocked on your one shot is still just as bad.

Actually, didn't you claim you were roleblocked. Why would you assume that if you didn't receive a message in confirmation of it. You would assume everything was fine and dandy and Rajam was going to die.

 

[Kantrip]

Ryker you are terrible at scumhunting and you should feel bad. I can't wait until postgame where you tell Nich he is better than you.

@Rajam: Did you get a PM last Night about a Death Sentence? Also give me your read on Gheb and Ryker.

This strange incap thing is definitely scum's doing. @Legolas: Do you think that it is a NK replacement? I'm not sure on this at the moment.

@Glyph: Give me your opinion of Rajam's jump onto Inferno.

I didn't crumb it, but I specifically asked Rajam if he had gotten the PM.