Final Fantasy 7

[limitbreak]

Haha FF8 was a joke. But yea, that gunblade is sick. And LionHeart is possibly the best limit ever.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I actually enjoyed FF VIII more. FF VII is the better game, game play of course, but I liked the setting and the plot before it became all "Go back in time and stop Ultimicia or she will posses Rinoah again!!! TIME COMPRESS FTL!!!" (the whole terrorist idea could have played out extremely well), but mostly, it was the GF's. Sure, lamer system, but cooler summons. I also like the characters more.

Still, neither hold a candle to FF VI

 

[sakuraZaKi]

lol the gunblade and "griever" (the lion symbol) was the only reason i ever played that game xD

oh and squall, i like his coat with the fur on it xD

ok i admit it, i love ff8 WAY more than ff7

 

[Emblem Lord]

FF8's system had far more customization in it. Which I liked.

Drawing? lolz.

Who draws?

Synthesizing magic FTW.

Also FF8 was also revolutionary. First game to try for more realism in the FF series. Also first game to truly concentrate on the love story. FF7 half ***** that part of it's story line. FF8 does romance justice.

I didn't like how ultimecia had little character development, but oh well. FF8 has flaws, but none that are any worse then FF7's.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

Pratically everysingle RPG during FFVII's time was turned based...and how was CT more exiting then VII's turnbase? Infact, if you look at it, CT's is pratically No Different from VII's turnbase, aside from doing Dual's and Triple Techs...what was so special about CT?

You talk about Random Battles and yet, everysingle FF game before VII was random, aside from Mystic Quest, which had the mobs visible, however, they would be literally blocking ways that you had to go, so it was a fight regardless. So if your saying turnbased wasn't fun....then are you implying this that VI's turnbased was horrible as well? So was IV's? Because by implying that, you are meaning, EVERY rpg that incorporated this...and during VII's time...there was ALOT.

CT even had a turnbased, and the only ones that didn't have a true Turnbase was something like Secret of Mana, which allowed you full freedom to move, attack and run when you chose too.

The Materia System was ABSOLUTELY nothing like the VI Esper System. Where in the world did you honestly get that idea? The Esper system allowed ZERO customization on your characters, and the only thing that you equipped espers was to gain the stats boost from them, and the magic spells.

There was nothing from previous FF games that rival the Materia System period, the only thing would've been the "Job System" however even in the earlier FF game, however even that wasn't Tactics Customizable.

Nothing before the Materia System even remotely came close, and with the materia system, it made crappy characters like Caith Sith legit. The Materia System was "not" supposed to make combat exciting, that was the job the visual affects of the Summons, the Magic Attacks, the Limit Breaks...and if those didn't excite you...then obviously, your being biased. Because the first time I saw Ifrit, Shiva, Knights of the Round Table, Meteor, and Omnislash...my jaws dropped and never closed up.

The Materia System allowed nearly infinite ways in which you could customize your character, so that they could have defensive properties beyond their regular capabilities, and definetly far more offensive capabilities then what they would have regularly. You can make it so that you absorb HP, and counter attack with a magic attack, or limit, or just a regular attack.

The ideas where nearly limitless...so how in the world does the Esper System even remotely worked close to this degree? Mind you, Final Fantasy VI was the FF game that I absolutely played the most out of any FF game.

Chrono Trigger had a STRAIGHT FORWARD storyline, while Final Fantasy VII did not. A ton of people missed Yuffie, and a even more completely missed Vincent, so there storylines would've never been seen if you didn't get them.

Not only that, but in CT, there was no strong storyline between the protagonist and the antagonist, while in VII, Cloud and Sephiroths storyline was one of the most powerful backbones to VII. VII really shined on storyline wise, was individual character driven plots, which is what really made VII great. Having a far smaller cast, you could really focus on each character more strongly.

Cloud's storyline was very strong, and it really made him human. Because for once, he was a hero that was intentionally made to have faults and to be weak, but most importantly, to have them openly displayed. Most protagonist before Cloud where Pure Heroes, or else they overcame their problems within a turn. However, Cloud struggled with his faults throughout all of VII and continued it even into AC.

You did not see this in previous FF games that was nothing remotely close to this. CT having a talking Frog does not make it better...how in the world does that give it better legitimacy then VII? I will give credit that FFVII did have plotholes, however AC covered up most of what occured in VII.

CT was killed because of Chrono Cross, just look at what "really" happened to Chrono and them now. In VII, Aeris's death is still one of the most emotional and impacted plot twist within the entire gaming world, not just within the rpg genre. That's a testament to VII's powerful character storyline, because Aeris's character was very well developed within VII, in order for her death to still be ranked within that lvl even today.


CT did nothing revolutionary that would push it to make an impact when it came out. The fact still remains, that when CT came out, Fighting Games where still dominating. The Fact still remains that when VII came out, RPG's took over as the #1 genre in video games.

There is a difference between the two, and that is why VII is not overrated, because it pushed rpg's to the forefront, and it made it become the #1 genre, and it made Square a PowerHouse back in the late 90's. CT did not even come remotely close to doing this.

Lastly on character's having individuality, honestly, most of this goes out the window. Even in a game like CT, that kills it even more.

Chrono, Ayla, Robo stand a vast distance away from everyone else. Lucca is very, very close to these three characters. However Chrono with Luminarie dealing out 6k+ damage to ALL enemies at the end+Rainbow Sword for 70% critical rates pushes him as the Best character in the game. Ayla with IronFist deals out 1.3k+ on regular hits!!! and 9999 damage on Critical and she does this almost as much as Chrono with Rainbow puts her up here.

Robo with his super versatility and group healing abilities pushes him here, and Lucca comes close, however everyone else, doesn't even remotely touch these characters. Why? There character individuality although great, becomes their bane at the end.

Magus has powerful magical attacks...however he's nowhere near Chrono/Lucca good, because Chrono and Lucca can deal out consistent psychical damage far better then Magus. Chrono can deal out 1.7k+ consistently with Rainbow, while Lucca deal upwards of up to 2k+ with her Wondershot.

Magus has nothing remotely close to consistent in that standard. Frog deals out great psychical damage with Masamune, however, he can't do it consistently without Hero Medal, and his Magic Attacks are pratically worthless at the end. Marle is the absolute worst character, and a horribly created character playing wise in CT (not storyline wise).

Simply because she has the best healing properties...but who's genius mind made it so that she could only heal ONE character a time.

You could as well stopped playing the rest, because Chrono, Ayla, Robo, and Lucca to a small extent pratically own this game. BTW, they become pratically Unstoppable in this game, and the only character worthy of fighting becomes the Nuu at the End of Time...even Lavos becomes a joke at maxed potential. We see this in basically EVERY Square rpg game.

As for Final Fantasy VIII, I just simply did not like the storyline, that had to be the most boring storyline I'd played for a FF game for it's time. I remember falling asleep so many times in that game, while trying frantacly to stay awake for it.

The Draw System was one of the absolute worst ideas ever concieved, because to max out some of your character stats, you had to sit there and draw out 100 each of those things...which was insane. To make it worst, if you used it, your stats would not only drop, but you would have to re-draw it again.

When maxing out all of the VIII characters, that was one of the most boring things to do, sitting there drawing all day. Drawing was almost as bad as the Sphere-Grid that was implemented in X.

Case in point however, VII was not overrated. Also, it having spinoff's is the #1 indication why it's not overrated...because why would it have more of it, if it was "overrated"? To have AC, to have Before Crisis, and now Crisis Core? Btw, I've played and beat Crisis Core months ago, and it's a very, very solid game, and definetly fills alot about Zack's character, and Sephiroth before Pre-Nimbleheim.

That's hardly overrated at all, and Final Fantasy X was another that wasn't overrated as well, because this FF game actually achieved as much fame and success as Final Fantasy VII, that's why you had a Final Fantasy X-2...however that wasn't a good game at all.

To end, VII was not overrated, honestly, I'm beginning to think people just simply state it's overrated simply because it's so popular.

However, the proof is there, back in 1997, it made Rpg's the #1 Genre, it made Square a Powerhouse, it made an impact across the gaming world. It was even the 1st RPG to be talked about in the News...which rpg before hand made such an impact?

NONE...reasons why VII being overrated is simply ridiculous, because it wasn't, it did everything other RPG's before it couldn't do.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I think I found another reason people call FVII over-rated, the lulz of fanboy(or more commonly, fangirl) reaction.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

I think I found another reason people call FVII over-rated, the lulz of fanboy(or more commonly, fangirl) reaction.

Then post a valid reason why it is, otherwise, your just another biased bandwagoner.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Then post a valid reason why it is, otherwise, your just another biased bandwagoner.

That's "you're", by the way.

One valid reason I don't hold FF VII as my favorite is because I enjoy FF VI and earlier FF's more. Of course, I have nothing to back this up with except personal taste, I like the sprite's art style than the early 3D FMV (Which is probably the most influential thing FF VII brought to the table) I like the SNES way more than any other system, etc. Does that mean I hate FF VII? No, but you have to admit, when people get this defensive over it, it gets funny if you're watching from the sidelines. That's what makes debates so fun to attend.

About the whole "bandwagon" thing, I do admit that people just bash on it without playing (most Halo fanboys, way, WAY worse. They claim Halo is one of the most influential games [some kids at my school call it THE] of all time. The first one was a decent FPS for a console, then it got worse with each other one), and that is a big mistake. You can't deny the people jumping on the bandwagon calling it so influential because Famitsu says so, becoming fanboy status without EVER PLAYING THE GAME. I know this for a fact that many, MANY people like this exist, I met quite a huge group at Fanime 2006.

And about the "bias" thing, as the great historian Howard Zinn puts it, "A researcher always gets a bias when he has the final results in what to write down." (I am paraphrasing this, mind you) He may find facts, it's how you interpret them and present them. I am bias against it being the best FF, you are bias towards it. There never is any "un-biased" person in things like these. If you can't admit to this, we can get NOWHERE.

 

[crismas]

LOL the real arguement here is: FF7 IS POPULAR OMGZ IT IZ OVERRATED!!!!!!11

/end

 

[limitbreak]

Yup FF8's drawing and Gf features were great ideas but HORRIBLY executed. In CT, you pretty much had your party set up at the end of the game between those four characters. And in FF7, Aeris dies, Cloud is a weak hero/protagonist that kills one of the most influential villains of all time, and finally, there are still sequals/ prequals comming out for this game ... how could you go wrong?

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

If you don't like FFVII as much as VI, that is honestly your opinion. However, what I'm getting at is liking something and saying something is overrated is entirely different.

If you say well FFVII wasn't as good for me as VI, because of this, this, and in my opinion, I like VI more because I personally enjoyed it more...then that's fine. However one cannot overlook that Final Fantasy VII achieved on a global success, unlike rpg's before it, so to assume that it's overrated is outrageous.

You don't have to like the game, however when you look into account to what it achieved, you can't say that it's overrated either.

Final Fantasy VII did what Street Fighter II did back in 1991...maybe not up to the impact that SFII did, but it was pretty darn close. I will say this, I am not some fanboy, because as I've stated earlier, I've been playing FF since the late 80's when it first came out.

So I've been a fan of the series well before VII debuted, I was playing games like FFVI well before it even came out, because I imported the game back in the day before it even hit the US shore. I was playing the other FF games before most people even knew there was more then 3 FF's games.

Final Fantasy VI was my absolute favorite FF game of all time...that is, until I played FFVII. Again, I don't believe VII is overrated, simply because it impact was far to great.

If you really want my opinion of what my Top 3 FF games of all time are...it's as followed...

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Final Fantasy VI
3. Final Fantasy Tactics

Given, Tactics is not part of the true FF series, but it's gameplay+storyline is too good to not be placed up in my Top 3.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's called milking the franchise people.

>_>

Companies DO like to make money you know?

The reason why sqaure enix can pump out FF7 stuff even with plotholes is cuz they know people will buy it.

Duh.

Still like the game.

As for FF8 being boring as well as alot of other things people have said...its pretty much all opinion aside from some established facts here and there.

Also most people have 1 or 2 reasons why they hate FF8. Usually nothing substantial.

You don't have to draw to ****. And you most certainly don't have to draw every spell.

That's ludicrous.

You actually did that OneWingSephiroth?

L

O

L

SRSLY.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

If you don't like FFVII as much as VI, that is honestly your opinion. However, what I'm getting at is liking something and saying something is overrated is entirely different.

If you say well FFVII wasn't as good for me as VI, because of this, this, and in my opinion, I like VI more because I personally enjoyed it more...then that's fine. However one cannot overlook that Final Fantasy VII achieved on a global success, unlike rpg's before it, so to assume that it's overrated is outrageous.

This is exactly what I mean. As far as innovation and influence goes, the whole "it's innovative story, characters, and gameplay revolutionized games following" is bull. The biggest and most noteworthy influence of FF VII in ALL of gaming is the use of FMV's and the first to use polygons like it did, defining the PSX as game machine supreme, which, until the revealing of the PS3, had the Playstation systems still at the top of the game.

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Final Fantasy VI
3. Final Fantasy Tactics

Given, Tactics is not part of the true FF series, but it's gameplay+storyline is too good to not be placed up in my Top 3.

Wow, that's surprisingly close to my top 3.

1. Final Fantasy VI
2. Final Fantasy Tactics
3. Final Fantasy III
4. Final Fantasy VIII
5. Final Fantasy VII

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

It's called milking the franchise people.

>_>

Companies DO like to make money you know?

The reason why sqaure enix can pump out FF7 stuff even with plotholes is cuz they know people will buy it.

Duh.

Still like the game.

As for FF8 being boring as well as alot of other things people have said...its pretty much all opinion aside from some established facts here and there.

Also most people have 1 or 2 reasons why they hate FF8. Usually nothing substantial.

You don't have to draw to ****. And you most certainly don't have to draw every spell.

That's ludicrous.

You actually did that OneWingSephiroth?

L

O

L

SRSLY.

Milking the Franchise to me is only when they make trashy games that are spinoff's, now that's garbage. However, can you that AC is trash? Or that Crisis Core looks to be like garbage? I've completely played through Crisis Core, and it's a solid game, definetly not some milking garbage game.

Milking a franchise is like what Capcom did to Street Fighter, by making garbage games like CapcomFightingJam, or remaking 10938402398 different versions of ST for different systems when they should've just made SuperTurbo:HD Remix like they are now (Now that looks really good), and that is truly milking.

Yes, I did do that, when you actually want to find out who's the Best characters within the game, that's what you have to do. Obviously now, after the Sphere-Grid, I've completely stopped grinding hardcore, moreso because I'm bored of it, but more importantly, I do not have the time that I used to anymore to do such things.

Drawing is ridiculous, regardless of what you may think, even if you don't get "everysingle" magic around, the fact that you have to sit there, and draw...and getting 100 is a pain. Worst yet, you have to do it with every single character, if you want them to have the magic so that they can either equip it or stock it.

The Draw System wether you think about it or not, is just garbage, because what they should've done was that once you fully drew the Maxed potential, that you would have the maxed amount and would no longer need to draw it anymore. Now that would've made it far better and more effecient.

However, still...nothing beats the Sphere grid...I don't know if any of you people did it, but I completely deleted the sphere-grid (all the ones that you can, which is alot), and replaced them all for their maxed potential. That was the only way you could find out the full potential of the characters...yeah, X's sphere-grid was the absolute worst of them all, by far.

Seriously, I honestly don't see what's so funny about it? Don't you spend tons of hours on Smash? I've spent even more hours on SFII then anything ever? Doing this on an rpg is no different, because your trying to find the best solutions, the best ways to win, and finding the full potential of characters..so yeah, nothing to really LoL about it.

I could Tier Pratically everysingle FF game and tell you who's good, and who is garbage, to what's good and what isn't.

 

[Brightside6382]

lol I dont see why you would do that with the sphere grid. You didn't have to max out each chars stats to see who was the best. It was obvious by endgame that Tidus, Wakka, and Yuna were the 3 best chars. (Yuna being the best because of Yojimbo and the little Bee girl)

 

[Emblem Lord]

No one is truly garbage in an FF game really.

Maxed out anyone will **** any enemy.

Also, yeah I did do that when I was younger and on my first playthrough. But I like to grind so I really have no beef with the draw system. Also you don't have to draw for every character.

Who told you this lie? Just switch GF's between characters and give one characters amgic to another and give them the same set-up. There is an in-game option on the junction menu that lets you do this if I'm not mistaken.

Saying you don;t like FFVIII is fine. But to say it was bad game is silly IMO.

Also FF AC was plothole heaven.

And Sephiroth is dumb. He just needs to possess Cloud and become one with him so he own everyone or just cut the **** and die for good.

Just felt like finally saying that.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

i agree with Emblem Lord, maxed out anything would ****...

and basically ALL everyone has said are opinions

(and for drawing? i just like it for drawing Ultima, it seems like a sweet stat raiser. i'm still half through the game and i'm not a person who plays through rpg-games thoroughly *with the exception of Star Ocean: till the End of Time* man i love that game)

 

[Kyd]

On X: filling out the sphere grid makes all the characters equal because they all max their stats equally. Yuna is the only standout character due to her summoning ability.

I'm a FF VII fan, and from my experiences with other FF players for the most part I've covered that those who like VII dont like VIII much and vice-versa.

VIII: it had a better plot than VII, the characters' backgrounds were more developed than those in VII. I personally have no problem with the junction/draw system because Final Fantasy is always looking for ways to change their setup, it's what they do. The junction system was very clever because it ultimately gave the players the choice of how to upgrade their characters. The main thing i hated about this game was its weapon system, i would rather buy them not make them.

VII: It (in my opinion) had better gameplay. I love the Materia system (more than junction) and the batlle system's layout. You have more options for your characters which means your commands arent limited nearly as much as in VIII. Sephiroth to me was a better developed villian (in all actuality, he was the most developed character in the game) than any other that I've seen (I've only played 7 - 10). Regardless of how highly I feel about this game, I must say that most of its success was due to it being the 1st one to use cinematics that were 3D. It's extras (Advent Children, Last Order, Dirge Of Cerberus) were MAJOR plot holes, but I still loved the plots and the gameplay (DOC).

 

[crismas]

I thought VII had a better plot, its all based off preference though.

You know what get's no love though? FFIX, I really enjoyed that game. BUT this isn't a topic for IX so I'll leave my opinion at that.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

EL, your comments about Sephiroth is laughable,, considering he's one of the most well developed FF Antagonist of all time, now Kefka, he's the most overrated antagonist of all time, but that will be set for another time.

Everyone is powerful at the end, however some are way better then others. Are you to tell me that Quistis is as good as Zell in the end? When Zell can potential deal out 1million+ damage to a single opponent with his Limit Break?

Or that Barret is not better then Caith Sith by a gigantic margin because Urgamax with 18xhits for 9999 is better then anything CS can remotely do in one single turn...add this with Counter Materia and you'll get the answer.

Or what about Auron...he's great throughout the game, but he's near worthless at then end, when Wakka, Yuna, Lulu and Tidus stand well above everyone. Btw, Lulu potentially has the MOST damage potential, I've been able to clock in 13-15 turns with her Overdrive, that makes it deal 15 turns for 90k+ damage, far surpassing even that of Wakka's Attack Reels.

Yuna "can" be Top-Tier because of Mindy with her 15-hit Strike for 99,9999 damage, however what really sets Yuna as the #1 Best Character in FFX is because of Yojimbo with his Instant Kill.

That's why you max out characters, because if you didn't do so, guess what, Rinoa would not be one of the BEST characters in VIII? Why? Because her Final Limit Break depends upon her stats.

Wishing Star at full potential Deals out 20 Hits for 9999 a piece, that is only surpassed by LionHeart with Renzokuken which is 23 hits for 9999, and obviously Zell's Limit.

So how does Quistis rival these characters in VIII? When Blue-Magic is just completely nerfed in VIII, at least in VII it was still good. Or what about Caith-Sith???? What does he really have that Barret, Cid, Yuffie, and Cloud don't have but 50x better? Or even in a game such as Chrono Trigger posted here earlier...what does Marle have that can say she's not a horrible in-game character when compared to the rest of the cast, especially the top elite?

So by comparison, these characters, are infact, pretty much left in the dust...that's why it's a Tier Listing.

The only exceptions are some of the older FF games, like VI for example, where at the end, everyone deals out 9999 piratically almost regardless of the situations, and the only time people can surpass that is with Gem-Box, or Offering+Genji-Glove combo's.

Final Fantasy VI to this day for me, simply has to be the hardest FF game to tier, simply because as I stated earlier, everyone is just a powerhouse at the end, so tiering them, becomes nearly impossible. You "could" probably set a few together, but the rest would be in just one big glob.

That's the only time where characters don't really stand above one another, however since VII onwards, you cannot say the same.

The Junction System is horrible, "sure" you can switch it between characters, however that's a pure pain, and a hassle, reasons why the Junction System is horrible. Not only that, if you use the magic, you'll also potentially lose stats as well, that's a pure system, bar none.
Reasons giving everyone the stocked magic from draws is pretty much a given.

If say, my idea of once you max out the certain magic, that you'll gain it forever, and keep it at full stock was implemented, I would actually agree that the Junction system would've been pretty cool, however that's just wasn't the case.

VIII's storyline wasn't appealing like previous FF games before it, the Love Storyline I thought was really cool because for once, they actually focused on something like, and in my honest opinion, was one of the biggest reasons why the storyline kept it's appeal to me, however the strong points of what occured in VII like with the protagonist and antagonist where barely next to nothing in VIII.

You fought so many sorcerers/ess that by the time you fought Ultimecia which is the true final antagonist, you where like....Okay...whatever. The main antagonist is one of the biggest key plots for making an rpg work, yet for VIII, it was just almost nowhere to be seen.

Should I even get into the Summons? Where dealing more damage you have to tap the square button at the times that it's available????? :ouch:

VIII had excellent character designs, hands down, Squall Lionheart imo to this day, is the best designed FF protagonist of all time, and Quistis wins my vote as the sexxiest Female FF character of all time.

Cinematically, and graphics wise, VIII>>>>>>VII by far, hands down, however storyline wise is where it really fell, which I feel is one of the most important things to any rpg. Also, we got the Junction System in place for the Materia System. Score Wise, I would place VII over VIII as well, theme songs like Aeris, Tifa's Theme Song, World Theme Song, and definetly One Winged Angel (I regard that as the best FF score piece ever created).

However Final Fantasy VI hands down, has the best Score overall.

 

[crismas]

Tifa's theme ftw.

But I'm curious on how Kefka is overrated. IMO he's probably the most pure evil villians in the FF series. Though feel free to correct me since this is just where I stand on it. What I love about Kefka that Sephiroth didn't have is just the insanity without reason part. Sephiroth, love for him because he was a solider once and not insane. But events made him insane, his past, his mind, the fact he had no loving people in his life. Kefka was like LOL I'M JUST GONNA POISON AN ENTIRE CASTLE OH BOY THATS FUNNYLOL! Twisted yes? Who needs development when you just have pure madness. That's what I call a villian!

Don't get me wrong though cause I love Sephy lot's.

 

[limitbreak]

No one is truly garbage in an FF game really.

Maxed out anyone will **** any enemy.

Also, yeah I did do that when I was younger and on my first playthrough. But I like to grind so I really have no beef with the draw system. Also you don't have to draw for every character.

Who told you this lie? Just switch GF's between characters and give one characters amgic to another and give them the same set-up. There is an in-game option on the junction menu that lets you do this if I'm not mistaken.

Saying you don;t like FFVIII is fine. But to say it was bad game is silly IMO.

Also FF AC was plothole heaven.

And Sephiroth is dumb. He just needs to possess Cloud and become one with him so he own everyone or just cut the **** and die for good.

Just felt like finally saying that.

Haha I love how people keep bringing up plot holes. These "plot holes" are there to keep the audience guessing and hint at possible sequals. And Sephiorth is by far the most influential/famous villain of all time. If you havent realised this now then you need to come out of your hole. lol

 

[limitbreak]

Tifa's theme ftw.

But I'm curious on how Kefka is overrated. IMO he's probably the most pure evil villians in the FF series. Though feel free to correct me since this is just where I stand on it. What I love about Kefka that Sephiroth didn't have is just the insanity without reason part. Sephiroth, love for him because he was a solider once and not insane. But events made him insane, his past, his mind, the fact he had no loving people in his life. Kefka was like LOL I'M JUST GONNA POISON AN ENTIRE CASTLE OH BOY THATS FUNNYLOL! Twisted yes? Who needs development when you just have pure madness. That's what I call a villian!

Don't get me wrong though cause I love Sephy lot's.

Kefka was definitely an evil villain but no where near as interesting or devastating as Sephiroth.

 

[crismas]

I agree limitbreak but I was just replying to his statement about Kefka being overrated. I never found him to be as such since he was legitmately insane and had some awesome role as a true villian.

 

[Kyd]

well im unfamiliar with Kefka but the reason I loved Sepiroth is because he is agrreeable at times. If you found out you were born as an experiment and had the ability to destroy in massive proportions, what would you do? I wouldn't turn away from that. Revenge would be a reasonable craving if you realized everything about your life was fake.

 

[Skler]

CT even had a turnbased, and the only ones that didn't have a true Turnbase was something like Secret of Mana, which allowed you full freedom to move, attack and run when you chose too.

Which is why I love secret of mana. The gameplay in that game is so much better than pretty much every RPG ever made.

Not only that, but in CT, there was no strong storyline between the protagonist and the antagonist, while in VII, Cloud and Sephiroths storyline was one of the most powerful backbones to VII. VII really shined on storyline wise, was individual character driven plots, which is what really made VII great. Having a far smaller cast, you could really focus on each character more strongly.

The antagonist is a giant monster that shoots lava out of it's back. It's a ****ing emotionless monster, it just kills ****. It's basically man (and friends) vs Nature, so there is no real antagonist. Wow, just wow. It's a story about an entire world, a much better story than FFVII could ever tell. The best part is, even with such a huge story there were no plot holes. Did you even play through CT? You get to know each character pretty well (near the end each character pretty much gets their own little story and quest to go with it). Not so much to bore the **** out of me, but enough so I care. The story is mostly about the entire world, not about a few specific people.

Spoiler

As all people should know the antagonist isn't just a giant monster, but mentioning him in the story would ruin the surprise.

You did not see this in previous FF games that was nothing remotely close to this. CT having a talking Frog does not make it better...how in the world does that give it better legitimacy then VII?

I don't think I even need to explain why having a talking frog/man/frogman makes the game better than FFVII. You also failed to argue the points I made about explosions, dinosaurs and exploding dinosaurs.

I will give credit that FFVII did have plotholes, however AC covered up most of what occured in VII.

I shouldn't have to watch a movie because a game had plot holes. As a matter of fact, I refuse to watch a movie because of bad story telling. If anything AC is another reason FFVII is overrated. AC should never have existed, FFVII did a bad job telling a story so they released a movie to fix it. That isn't good at all, that's bad.

CT was killed because of Chrono Cross, just look at what "really" happened to Chrono and them now. In VII, Aeris's death is still one of the most emotional and impacted plot twist within the entire gaming world, not just within the rpg genre. That's a testament to VII's powerful character storyline, because Aeris's character was very well developed within VII, in order for her death to still be ranked within that lvl even today.

Chrono Cross is not CT, so why do you even mention it? I'm comparing games here, not series. People who cry (or care) when Aeris dies are ****ed up. If frog died I would be upset, but fortunately he is badass.

Lastly on character's having individuality, honestly, most of this goes out the window. Even in a game like CT, that kills it even more.

Chrono, Ayla, Robo stand a vast distance away from everyone else. Lucca is very, very close to these three characters. However Chrono with Luminarie dealing out 6k+ damage to ALL enemies at the end+Rainbow Sword for 70% critical rates pushes him as the Best character in the game. Ayla with IronFist deals out 1.3k+ on regular hits!!! and 9999 damage on Critical and she does this almost as much as Chrono with Rainbow puts her up here.

Robo with his super versatility and group healing abilities pushes him here, and Lucca comes close, however everyone else, doesn't even remotely touch these characters. Why? There character individuality although great, becomes their bane at the end.

Magus has powerful magical attacks...however he's nowhere near Chrono/Lucca good, because Chrono and Lucca can deal out consistent psychical damage far better then Magus. Chrono can deal out 1.7k+ consistently with Rainbow, while Lucca deal upwards of up to 2k+ with her Wondershot.

Magus has nothing remotely close to consistent in that standard. Frog deals out great psychical damage with Masamune, however, he can't do it consistently without Hero Medal, and his Magic Attacks are pratically worthless at the end. Marle is the absolute worst character, and a horribly created character playing wise in CT (not storyline wise).

Simply because she has the best healing properties...but who's genius mind made it so that she could only heal ONE character a time.

The game is beatable using any team. I like Marle because of haste. Haste kicks ***. Plus, you need her to not suck so you can beat Lavos at the start of the game, which is extremely fun. Besides, you have to use all characters at certain points to fully beat the game (such as needing Frog for his little masamune sidequest).

reasons why VII being overrated is simply ridiculous, because it wasn't, it did everything other RPG's before it couldn't do.

Let's list things it did that other RPGs before it didn't do.

1. Looked pretty in 3D.

Everything else had been done, but for some reason (a reason I obviously can't see) a bunch of people liked the way FFVII did it more. The only people who I've met that still worship FFVII are obsessed with every FF game. Fanboyism to the extreme.

This will probably be my last post on this thread, I'm going to go play games that are better than FFVII, like Secret of Mana, Ogre Battle and Pong.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

Tifa's theme ftw.

But I'm curious on how Kefka is overrated. IMO he's probably the most pure evil villians in the FF series. Though feel free to correct me since this is just where I stand on it. What I love about Kefka that Sephiroth didn't have is just the insanity without reason part. Sephiroth, love for him because he was a solider once and not insane. But events made him insane, his past, his mind, the fact he had no loving people in his life. Kefka was like LOL I'M JUST GONNA POISON AN ENTIRE CASTLE OH BOY THATS FUNNYLOL! Twisted yes? Who needs development when you just have pure madness. That's what I call a villian!

Don't get me wrong though cause I love Sephy lot's.

Kefka is overrated because his character development is next to nothing. Throughout the entire storyline of FFVI, you just know that he's insane and that he's evil. These I repeat...are NOT qualities that always make for a great antagonist, this is what is simply known as Simple Evil.

Even a 3rd Grader can create a character like Kefka and throw him in the game, because his personality and charcter development is nearly washed over. He is no different then the DBZ villains, much like how Freeza is.

I mean seriously, look at the two, there both ridiculously evil, they love to kill, and they love power. So if we where to regard someone like Kefka as one of the great antagonist because he's evil+powerful, then the DBZ villains are the undisputed greatest antagonist ever created. Because unlike most antagonist, they've actually wiped out planets/solar systems and lived to tell the tale, not to mention they evil to the core.

However, that's not the case, what makes a great antagonist, is great character development. Someone like Sephiroth or Kuja are great examples, because they really dig deep into these characters and their personalities. For Sephiroth you get to see more of his character, and how he actually falls into his realm of darkness.

This gives Sephiroth the sense of a once great hero fallen from grace, and he has a powerful ideaology. Not only that, but Sephiroth resorts to other measures, instead of just "blowing things up", he utilizes manipulation and confusion to achieve his means, especially against the main protagonist Cloud.

His very close relationship with Cloud makes him that more interesting, because it makes confronting Sephiroth more on a personal lvl.

Delita although from Tactics, is another well made antagonist, because you never know what his real intentions are, and he's a great manipulator. Yet he is nowhere near amongst the Pure Evil persona, nor does he even remotely come close to Sephiroth, Kuja or Kefka's power potential. However, his great character development makes him an excellent antagonist in Tactics.

Kefka does not display nowhere near this amount of character development, sure he becomes a Demi-God, however with no real solid back bone to his character, he's not amongst one of the greatest FF antagonist.

I regard, Sephiroth, Delita (Tactics) and Kuja as the three most polished FF antagonist to date.

 

[Retroking2000]

^

I wish i had that username (jealous)

 

[crismas]

All emotional back story doesn't equal an amazing villian. Kefka was just a sicko, so he didn't have a back story right? It didn't effect me none, I thought he was truly an amazing villian, sick and twisted in every sense of the word. It's nice to have a villian sometimes that doesn't have mommy issues or somethin but that just completely lost his mind. He was also very hilarious character at that. Overrated, not in the least...regarded as just pure and simple...evil.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

All emotional back story doesn't equal an amazing villian. Kefka was just a sicko, so he didn't have a back story right? It didn't effect me none, I thought he was truly an amazing villian, sick and twisted in every sense of the word. It's nice to have a villian sometimes that doesn't have mommy issues or somethin but that just completely lost his mind. He was also very hilarious character at that. Overrated, not in the least...regarded as just pure and simple...evil.

That doesn't make him a great character. The fact is, he's one-dimensional, and just look at antagonist that are considered good, if you'll notice they have great character development and personality. Look at Magneto, he's nowhere near Pure Evil, and yet he's an excellent antagonist, we can also look at another character like Delita from Tactics, not pure evil, yet a great antagonist.

Sephiroth having so called mommy issues is probably a ploy to try and mock his character, comming from you, which I'm sure. However, to show how ill wrong you are. Sephiroth wanted to achieve what Jenova did before him. He believed in his ideaology so much that he was willing to wipe out all life for it. Plain and simple, it's like how your a fan of what someone did and you want follow in there footsteps. So what's wrong with that?

The thing about Kefka is, he was a joke character all the way up until the WoR time. Your entire party slapped Kefka around like a whimpered dog throughout nearly half of FFVI. However, the same case could not be said about Sephiroth, he could only be taken down by the most powerful of characters ex: Cloud, where as Kefka got pawned at many multiple points before WoR.

Case and point, Kefka was a one-dimensional, simple evil character. He is definetly overrated, because he has no backbone for his character. He's like every DBZ villain, pure simple and one dimensional evil.

Which is why I love secret of mana. The gameplay in that game is so much better than pretty much every RPG ever made.

So basically your saying all turnbased rpg's are crap besides action/rpg oriented games?

The antagonist is a giant monster that shoots lava out of it's back. It's a ****ing emotionless monster, it just kills ****. It's basically man (and friends) vs Nature, so there is no real antagonist. Wow, just wow. It's a story about an entire world, a much better story than FFVII could ever tell. The best part is, even with such a huge story there were no plot holes. Did you even play through CT? You get to know each character pretty well (near the end each character pretty much gets their own little story and quest to go with it). Not so much to bore the **** out of me, but enough so I care. The story is mostly about the entire world, not about a few specific people.

Spoiler

As all people should know the antagonist isn't just a giant monster, but mentioning him in the story would ruin the surprise.

Nothing against the storyline of CT, however, let's be serious now, that game was straight forward. The characters where great, but they did not have really deep in personal depth like say...someone like Cloud. We did not get to really, really dig deep about Chrono did we? Infact Marle got more personal time then Chrono. So what are you really saying?

In VII, we get to see how weak Cloud really is, and just how much he outcasted he puts himself in. You, also seemed to have forgotten that everyone in VII had a little sidequest for their storyline going, infact even more intimate then even CT's. Tifa got to be head leader for awhile, Barret's dispute with Marlene's real father and his past, Vincent's past, Yuffie with her father at Wu-Tai, Nanaki and his father, the only character who didn't recieve anything really was Caith Sith?

Also, are you to tell me that the VII wasn't about the ENTIRE WORLD? Are you kidding me?!

That's why Shinra being the Super Power had to try and stop Sephiroth. That's why the Weapons went on a complete rampage all over the entire world. That's why Nanaki's grandfather was talking about how the world could come to an end. That's why Meteor was summoned to wipe out the world of life.

Did you play VII at all?

I don't think I even need to explain why having a talking frog/man/frogman makes the game better than FFVII. You also failed to argue the points I made about explosions, dinosaurs and exploding dinosaurs.

Right...maybe I should go on about how having a talking Big Cat in FFVII>>>>>>>>Talking Frog in CT. Not to mention, at the end of the game, RedXIII has far more legitimacy ingame then Frog does

I shouldn't have to watch a movie because a game had plot holes. As a matter of fact, I refuse to watch a movie because of bad story telling. If anything AC is another reason FFVII is overrated. AC should never have existed, FFVII did a bad job telling a story so they released a movie to fix it. That isn't good at all, that's bad.

Then explain to me your oh so great huge plot holes that your crying about? If anything, your just nitpicking then really getting at the game entirely. Guess what? Suikoden is one of the greatest rpg's around, and there are alot of plotholes in it. However, in VII, the biggest plothole was the dispute between Sephiroth vs Jenova, which was infact solved by AC.

AC wasn't made to just "cover up" the storyline, it was made because VII was popular.

You talk about PlotHoles and yet look at CT, whatever in the world happened to Schala during CT? She just all but dissappeared. Oh wait...it took CC, a horrible sequel to CT to put her plot hole into perspective...in which they pretty much killed it.

Chrono Cross is not CT, so why do you even mention it? I'm comparing games here, not series. People who cry (or care) when Aeris dies are ****ed up. If frog died I would be upset, but fortunately he is badass.

Because CC is the sequal to CT duh? People crying when Aeris dies is their own feelings towards it, that might be because 1. That character's storyline was so strong that they where emotionally attached to it 2. It was so dramatic that it released the emotions of that person watching the scene take place.

Frog didn't die so him being put into the picture is irrelivent.

The game is beatable using any team. I like Marle because of haste. Haste kicks ***. Plus, you need her to not suck so you can beat Lavos at the start of the game, which is extremely fun. Besides, you have to use all characters at certain points to fully beat the game (such as needing Frog for his little masamune sidequest).

Yes, you can beat the game with any team...however you can do this with any rpg game. However, that doesn't stop Marle from being garbage. Seriously, haste is nowhere near as useful in CT as it is in earlier previous other games which incorporated it. Haste actually becomes completely useless at the end, throwing Marle down another notch. The fact that basically all of her skills are only single character selected kills it's usefulness.

Why have Marle, when I can use Robo to group heal? The fact remains is that Marle was a poorly made character in-game at the end, and her usefulness is completely out the door. She has no group healing capabilities, her best skills are single casting only, she does garbage damage psychical and even on a magical lvl.

Marle was a bad ingame character, period at the end, plain and simple. Chrono, Ayla, Robo and Lucca are characters that vastly outshine the rest of the cast.

Also, lol at using all of the characters...at one point in time, everyone that you get legit in VII, you have to use at one point in time. So what are you really seriously talking about? Sidequest?

Guess what? FFVII has 50x more Sidequest to do then what was given in CT. Not to mention, some of the Sidequest involved tremendous amounts of hours? The Chobo Raising Quest to obtain some of the most powerful Materias in the game. What about the sunken airplane in the ocean? How about the mini-games with their quest items at Gold Saucer...the list goes on. If your talking about these types of things to "fully" beat the game, VII does not come short, and they far surpass that of what we've seen in CT.

Let's list things it did that other RPGs before it didn't do.

1. Looked pretty in 3D.

Everything else had been done, but for some reason (a reason I obviously can't see) a bunch of people liked the way FFVII did it more. The only people who I've met that still worship FFVII are obsessed with every FF game. Fanboyism to the extreme.

This will probably be my last post on this thread, I'm going to go play games that are better than FFVII, like Secret of Mana, Ogre Battle and Pong.

So what your saying is that VII was revolutionary for its time right? Isn't that what I said in comparison to Street Fighter II as well? Did you not bother to read?

There where many fighting games before Street Fighter II, however Street Fighter II was the game that did a few differences. They had better graphics then what came before it (same like VII), they used the same mechanics shown in other fighting games before it and improved in certain aspects of it (The Materia System and the Limit Break System are key improvements over other system in previous rpg's).

VII added tons of sidequest with a few that would take hours to achieve and 2 characters that where optional to obtain. They had a powerful storyline with events from it that are still to this day, are being talked about.

For real, what are you trying to debunk? It still remains clear and simple...before VII, rpg's where a nich genre, after VII, rpg's became the #1 genre.

Plain and simple, how can that be overrated?

Honestly, people who consider VII overrated has brain damage, if you didn't realize that VII brought Square to the forefront as a company, btw, I forgot another thing, VII was the game that helped pushed PSX to completely dominate the 32-Bit era, and helped make rpg's become the genre of choice for the next years to come.

There's a difference between "opinion" of what you like and don't like, and something being overrated.

So how is that overrated? Because, Right...it isn't.

It's okay to leave the topic Skler when you have nothing that can prove why VII is overrated.

 

[crismas]

No he isn't a great character, but he's a great villian. I still don't see your point, I'm not sitting here comparing Sephiroth to Kefka cause that's just silly obviously Sephiroth is more developed who's arguing with that? But who cares, I'm saying that Kefka is still a great villian on his own, and I'm not sure what's wrong with having a villian just act like a villian. He's a likable charcter because he's funny and then he just decides to poison a whole castle full of people then completly betray the Empire. Manipulate Terra, try to manipulate Celes for his own well being. Kefka was looking out for one guy and one guy alone, HIM. I guess having some twisted sense of humor in a villian is wrong beause he's NOT SEPHIROTH or whatever and we didn't feel bad for him. I don't wanna feel bad for the villian I just wanna see him create chaos and it's not like he wasn't his own character. Dude made his soldiers clean his shoe in the middle of the desert lolz too good. Man f all logic, I like the fact that he was just out to f up the world for mistreating him and his sick delusions, good stuff imo.

And for your information I'm a fan of Sephiroth and I would defend his character too. I'm just not one of those people who go on my knees and pray to Sephiroth every night and get all sensitive when people don't worship the ground he walks on.

 

[Teebs]

OK, so we all understand that Kefka is no where near better than Sephiroth, correct?

Everything else had been done, but for some reason (a reason I obviously can't see) a bunch of people liked the way FFVII did it more. The only people who I've met that still worship FFVII are obsessed with every FF game. Fanboyism to the extreme.

This will probably be my last post on this thread, I'm going to go play games that are better than FFVII, like Secret of Mana, Ogre Battle and Pong.

HAHA! This just made me pee my pants! Wow is all I have to say about this. Although I am not the kind of person to judge other opinions, this just peaked my attention. Pong? Yes it's the first game ever made, but how in the heck is it better than FFVII? Answer that and I will show you something completely strange.

Anyway, I can completely agree with everything that OWS said above. Honestly, a few things that Skler posted seemed like personal attacks to FFVII fans everywhere. For instance, why would anyone care if people show emotion towards Aeris' death? It's our own thing, I can even say publically that I was very close to sheding tears during this scene. So how does this make me or anyone else who came close f'd up? It doesn't. These kind of emotions can come out in ANY GAME that have similar scenes/storylines.

All I can get out of you Skler is, once again, opinions (which everyone has), and a bunch of whining, on which it seems, the enitre game of FFVII itself, and complaining of the fans. I also think that you need to get your facts straight.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Sephiroth is more developed becuase he isn't evil.

If something is simply in your nature does it need explaining?

Nope.

Because it's who you are, most likely from birth.

Sephiroth is a psychopath with a god-complex/oedipus complex. He's not evil. He's demented.

Why did some of you say I think Sephiroth is overrated?

I didn't say that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. I know he is a well developed villian. I mean in-character he is a moron and his arrogance is one of his biggest down-falls.

Don't assume things about what I'm saying. It's stupid to do so.

Also I play liked FFVIII's growth system because you could do so much with it. Customize stats, elemental stats, even boost your speed, HP, MP, give your characters cool commands. You could also customize GF abilities which was awesome.

Maybe you don't like the way it was implented, but you can't ignore the wealth of options it gave you.

Also FFIV = Best FF game IMO.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh, yeah just remembered Sephiroth did try to take over Cloud's body at the end of FFVII.

And he got *****.

GG.

lol.

Double post FTW.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

No he isn't a great character, but he's a great villian. I still don't see your point, I'm not sitting here comparing Sephiroth to Kefka cause that's just silly obviously Sephiroth is more developed who's arguing with that? But who cares, I'm saying that Kefka is still a great villian on his own, and I'm not sure what's wrong with having a villian just act like a villian. He's a likable charcter because he's funny and then he just decides to poison a whole castle full of people then completly betray the Empire. Manipulate Terra, try to manipulate Celes for his own well being. Kefka was looking out for one guy and one guy alone, HIM. I guess having some twisted sense of humor in a villian is wrong beause he's NOT SEPHIROTH or whatever and we didn't feel bad for him. I don't wanna feel bad for the villian I just wanna see him create chaos and it's not like he wasn't his own character. Dude made his soldiers clean his shoe in the middle of the desert lolz too good. Man f all logic, I like the fact that he was just out to f up the world for mistreating him and his sick delusions, good stuff imo.

And for your information I'm a fan of Sephiroth and I would defend his character too. I'm just not one of those people who go on my knees and pray to Sephiroth every night and get all sensitive when people don't worship the ground he walks on.

Nothing wrong with being delusional or being crazy, or a psychopath...LOOK at The Joker. However, Kefka's storyline was completely piss poor, and to the core, he was a poorly developed character.

That's why he's overrated, the fact that he looks over himself...so what. Look at any DBZ antagonist, all they care about is themselves, all they care about is destroying things, all they care about is power?

Are you to tell me that, they deserve to be amongst the great and well made antagonist of all time as well? Kefka is overrated, because he is a poorly made antagonist, and that can't be removed, because it's been shown.

So what, he becomes a Demi-God, and nearly destroys the world. That's no big achievement considering Kuja summoned Necron that could potentially wipe out all life within the universe of IX, Sephiroth summons a meteor that was near it's goal of wiping out life within the world, and was only stopped by Holy+the Lifestream, a feat that Cloud and the group had no power to control and only hoped.

There is nothing great about Kefka that makes him one of the best FF antagonist ever created. Infact, most of the FF antagonist from VI downward are quite simple and one-dimensional.

From VII onward, we saw a hefty change in how antagonist where viewed, and how much more well developed and a more intimate role they would play, instead of the "I'm the badguy!" role. We didn't see the one-dimensional antagonist in the newer FF games until VIII with Ultimecia, however Kefka is overrated. Power and being evil does not = Great Villain, you have to have more then that, because anybody can create a villain like Kefka in a whim.

"If" we just judged Kefka by power and evil, then he ranks amongst the best in the FF series, however that's not simply the case. He was poorly made because he was one-dimensional and simple evil. You can like Kefka for his antics, I sure loved him for some of his moments, however if I had to judge by what he brought to the table, and how well he was made, he is not one of the best FF antagonist ever made.

Btw, Crismas, if you like Kefka for your own personal reasons, that's cool, however he is definetly not one of the better made FF antagonist.


As for EL, VIII's system was horrid period, regardless of the "customs", because why? You had to sit there and stock it, over and over, if you ended up using it. Your stats dropped if you used it, that meant that whatever was equipped to your stats, you had to not rely upon it. Sadly, most of these equipments where some of the most powerful and useful magic.

It had a "great idea" but a poorly made game mechanical flaw, which basically makes the great idea obsolete. You've seen the Sphere-Grid, they had some great implementations in it, like at the beginning, depending upon where you go could change how effective your character would be at which path they took, meaning that Tidus could move down to Yuna and have some healing capabilities, or he could "potentially" warp to Lulu and gain powerful offensive magical properties. However, the Sphere-Grid was of such gigantic size that it literally crippled itself from within.

Btw, EL, it's your post like this is what makes us think otherwise with comments like this about Sephiroth....

"And Sephiroth is dumb. He just needs to possess Cloud and become one with him so he own everyone or just cut the **** and die for good."

Crap like that is spelled for trouble, however I did misunderstand your statement, so I do apologize for that? However, I want to bring something up...Which antagonist isn't arrogant?

Look at Kefka? Look at Kuja? Look at Seymour? Didn't there arrogance get them killed?

Honestly, you delude me, because Sephiroth has a flaw that pratically 99.9% of all antagonist do, they are full of themselves. However, if anyone would've read the Final Fantasy VII interview from Square themselves.

They officially confirmed that Sephiroth loves to toy with his opponents, especially Cloud, and that he purposely holds back just to mess around with them, because he does not want to go out and kill them outright.

Another statement that they have is this, and that is that Sephiroth throughout Pre-Nimbleheim, VII and Advent Children. He has not fully displayed his full powers, every confrontation he's had, he has never unleashed his full capability, always holding back. Again, he is confident in his abilities, even at the watered down lvl.

This probably goes in hand in hand with the notion that, since he cannot truly die (as proven twice already), that his goal could potentially be achieved sooner or later.

I will admit, Sephiroth falls short because of his arrogance (Like pratically almost every antagonist). However, how much fun would it be for us to play 50+ hrs only to have the antagonist achieve their goal.

Oh, yeah just remembered Sephiroth did try to take over Cloud's body at the end of FFVII.

And he got *****.

GG.

lol.

Double post FTW.

Honestly, you need to quit these little 5 year old rants about Sephiroth. Are you intentionally trying to start a flamewar here? Because it really looks it to me. Honestly, keep it about the debate.

Also, you are incorrect, Sephiroth was not trying to "take over Cloud's body" this was just Cloud trying to beat Sephiroth on the mental lvl. To overcome his shadow, and relinquish himself once and for all of Sephiroth. Because Cloud always looked at Sephiroth as being someone vastly more powerful then him, and someone that Cloud could not beat.

This had nothing to do with Sephiroth taking a "last effort" into trying to take over Cloud's body. "If" Sephiroth had wanted to do that, he could of easily done this during FFVII's time when Cloud was pathetically weak minded.

Sephiroth's intentions with Cloud was to not take over his body, but manipulate, toy and break down Cloud's mind and will, in which he basically achieved this during VII.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh, I think the final battle is left open to interpretation between the two of them.

And yeah I like to egg Sephiroth fanboys on.

What of it? Not saying you are one. Just fun to see people's reactions.

As for the interview..lol. **** now I KNOW they plan on mliking the franchise.

"He can unleash his full power anytime he chooses too, but doesn't to make it interesting."

This ***** is Gouki (Akuma) now?

So basically they just set the stage so he can come back at anytime, get *****, and have an excuse so he can just come back again.

Square-Enix..props to you. You know how to milk fanboys and make that money.

And **** you for not making AC a game, like it should have been.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain that Cloud is up there in terms of raw power.

I also have my own theory as to why Cloud was able to match Sephiroth even after he lost his Jenova cells and Aeris used the lifestream to cleanse him.

And wtf@Jenova? The ***** never talks.

Well, yeah techincally she does since "she" is the Sephiroth that you talk to throughout the game really. And she talks to Cloud in his dreams.

Crazy broad. >_>

 

[crismas]

No it's fine, you're entitled to your opinion too OWS. I have nothing more to say on the issue otherwise I'd be rehashing. Though, I think you really missed my point. All I was doing was arguing that Kefka was a great villian, not the best antagonist and not overrated. I don't think anything in FFVI is overrated. FFVI and FFVII are the best FF's in my eyes so ya.

 

[Skler]

HAHA! This just made me pee my pants! Wow is all I have to say about this. Although I am not the kind of person to judge other opinions, this just peaked my attention. Pong? Yes it's the first game ever made, but how in the heck is it better than FFVII? Answer that and I will show you something completely strange.

The Pong part was a joke, you're taking the internets too seriously right there.

Anyway, I can completely agree with everything that OWS said above. Honestly, a few things that Skler posted seemed like personal attacks to FFVII fans everywhere. For instance, why would anyone care if people show emotion towards Aeris' death?

Because it's one of the reasons FFVII fans love that game so much. They say it has the most emotional scene in any game, and it did nothing for me. I don't understand why people have any attachment to Aeris. I guess you agree that everyone who thinks FFVII is overrated has brain damage too? Thats a shame, you seemed sensible.

FFVII fans take any insult about the game as an insult to themselves. It found it boring and I still find it to be overrated. It did very few things that hadn't been done before.

It's our own thing, I can even say publically that I was very close to sheding tears during this scene. So how does this make me or anyone else who came close f'd up? It doesn't. These kind of emotions can come out in ANY GAME that have similar scenes/storylines.

Maybe ****ed up was a bit of a strong word to use, but the storyline in FFVII did nothing but bore me. If I really wanted to get to know characters that well I'd read a book. When I play games I expect to learn a little about the characters, but I don't want any drawn out stories. I play games for gameplay.

All I can get out of you Skler is, once again, opinions (which everyone has), and a bunch of whining, on which it seems, the enitre game of FFVII itself, and complaining of the fans. I also think that you need to get your facts straight.

You're saying that what I posted is opinion, but what other people post is fact (Protip: them agreeing with you doesn't make it fact, it's still their opinion)? That's flawed on so many levels. FFVII is fine for people who like turn based RPGs and/or feel like spending tons of time on side quests and **** like that. It isn't the sort of game I would ever play again. I found it decent, but certainly not one of the best games ever.

I might be confused on some parts of the game because I haven't played it in a very long time (I said before I didn't like it that much). The only RPGs I really bothered replaying were SoM, CT and SMRPG.

I'll adress OWS's post about the storyline of CT and FFVII. You don't need to know anything about Chrono. He's an average person who just so happens to be thrown into a strange situation. Not much to explain there. I'm saying that CT didn't need to give me tons of details that I don't care about. I got plenty of story from it, any more would have made the game feel like a chore. Chrono is constantly helping the people of the world and seeing the effects of it later. I'm pretty sure CT was the first game to do something like that, and it did that very well. I find its story much more enjoyable than FFVII.s

I never argued about there being more sidequests in CT, but you made it seem like the game was completely straightforward and had no character development at all. I never said CT has more character development than FFVII, I never said CT had more sidequests than FFVII. I also find it hilarious that you said a sidequest being long essentially makes the sidequest good. Oh man, quantity > quality nowadays? Sidequests are great if they aren't tedious, which is why I love the CT sidequests. They are all unique and interesting, each one rewards you well and they certainly don't get boring.

Stop mentioning CC. It wasn't a good game and it wasn't Chrono Trigger. I'm comparing games, not sequels or any bull**** like that. You are an idiot if you honestly think CC makes CT any better or worse (I'm not calling you an idiot unless you actually think that, in which case you must be). Sorry if this is seen as a personal attack, but you must be kidding if you think CC being released makes CT any less amazing. I might as well say all those terrible FFVII spinoffs make FFVII worse.

Since I forgot to multiqute, here's the stupidest part of OWS's post.

"For real, what are you trying to debunk? It still remains clear and simple...before VII, rpg's where a nich genre, after VII, rpg's became the #1 genre.

Plain and simple, how can that be overrated?

Honestly, people who consider VII overrated has brain damage, if you didn't realize that VII brought Square to the forefront as a company, btw, I forgot another thing, VII was the game that helped pushed PSX to completely dominate the 32-Bit era, and helped make rpg's become the genre of choice for the next years to come.

There's a difference between "opinion" of what you like and don't like, and something being overrated.

So how is that overrated? Because, Right...it isn't.

It's okay to leave the topic Skler when you have nothing that can prove why VII is overrated."

It should be have brain damage, not has. Sorry, but please insult a huge group of people with proper grammar. At least let us brain damaged people read it, you make it so difficult.

You use one fact (that FFVII made RPGs more popular) and that instantly makes all of your opinions facts? It can be overrated, and it is. People like you make it overrated. You worship the game and NOBODY can convince you otherwise. You're extremely bigoted (although you'll deny it), and you refuse to accept that anything in the game is flawed. The game is flawed, get over it. There are better games out there.

You called it the best RPG ever, that's overrating it dip****. It was an influential RPG. does that make it better than games that came after (or before) it? No.

The brain damage part proves you're a bigot, you ran out of things to defend FFVII with so why not insult everyone who disagrees with you?

Edit: This post got a lot longer than I originally intended it to be.

 

[M.K]

Well, the only Final Fantasy I was ever compelled to beat...is the one with Cecil, Kain, Rydia, FuSoYa, and everyone else. I don't really remember which number it was....

That WAS a good one right?

 

[blazer787]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2953
thats 20%
also, i think people here who dislike this game fall into one of these catagories,
1) they haven't actually played it
2) they're mad and dislike it because one of the greatest games wasn't on a nintendo consoel