Fighting Games Thread

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I ner said its bad lol, its exactly the oppositeI, I just wanted to say that the idea is already implemented.

 

[dezeray112]

Each game has their faults, but its complicate to see what is right and what is wrong.

• MVCI failed for the roster and graphics but it had a very good gameplay.
• SFV failed at the launch for the lack of content and the controversial new mechanics and the lack of other but it improved at the end.

To be fair, whilst Yoshinori Ono did had some positives that include revitalising the Street Fighter and the Fighting Game Community scene under his tenure, Street Fighter X Tekken came under fire for its controversial on-disc DLC, Street Fighter V's launch with lackluster content and Marvel Vs Capcom: Infinite launched with a questionable roster and reverted 2v2 gameplay mechanic.

Now that Ono is no longer working with Capcom, I am optimistic that the new team of Takayuki Nakayama and Shuhei Matsumoto (both of whom were in charge of final season of Street Fighter V) can put the Capcom fighting department back on the right direction where Ono could not quite achieve.

 

[Quillion]

I ner said its bad lol, its exactly the oppositeI, I just wanted to say that the idea is already implemented.

Oh, okay.

Still, considering these big fighter franchises indeed are releasing sequels every console gen, why do they need to rely on the GaaS "release incomplete" model? By all accounts, most of them still have very strong core gameplay, so why risk putting out something that will be remembered for remaining incomplete due to poor player support?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

To be fair, whilst Yoshinori Ono did had some positives that include revitalising the Street Fighter and the Fighting Game Community scene under his tenure, Street Fighter X Tekken came under fire for its controversial on-disc DLC, Street Fighter V's launch with lackluster content and Marvel Vs Capcom: Infinite launched with a questionable roster and reverted 2v2 gameplay mechanic.

Now that Ono is no longer working with Capcom, I am optimistic that the new team of Takayuki Nakayama and Shuhei Matsumoto (both of whom were in charge of final season of Street Fighter V) can put the Capcom fighting department back on the right direction where Ono could not quite achieve.

Ono was Capcom needed to revive their fighting game franchises but not what they needed to continue them.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Oh, okay.

Still, considering these big fighter franchises indeed are releasing sequels every console gen, why do they need to rely on the GaaS "release incomplete" model? By all accounts, most of them still have very strong core gameplay, so why risk putting out something that will be remembered for remaining incomplete due to poor player support?

Usually it ends being because their schedule trying to not retrase the launch.

 

[Quillion]

Usually it ends being because their schedule trying to not retrase the launch.

What does that mean?

 

[Perkilator]

What does that mean?

Usually, trying to launch the game before the end of their fiscal year.

An another note, I actually love this idea for a Persona 5 Arena:

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

What Perk said, sorry for not redact it well lol.

An another note, I actually love this idea for a Persona 5 Arena:

I love Thorgi's videos, he has very good ideas! For example I love his idea of teams for Capcom vs SNK 3.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

An another note, I actually love this idea for a Persona 5 Arena:

I liked that video too, only thing is I find it a weird choice that goro akechi was DLC.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I liked that video too, only thing is I find it a weird choice that goro akechi was DLC.

It makes sense considering that base P4A doesnt has Adachi.

 

[dezeray112]

• MVCI failed for the roster and graphics but it had a very good gameplay.

It is such a shame that MVCI had ran in to several issues like the points above.

Now, I have seen several threads within other forums that questioned whether there will be another Marvel Vs Capcom game in the future? Personally, I still think it will happen eventually. But right now, I feel that the Capcom fighting game department are currently focused on ensuring that Street Fighter 6 is well recieved and if they can achieve that, then I think this will not only put Capcom fighting games back on the map, but this could potentially see other fighting games (not just vs. games) that had been laid dormant such as the Darkstalkers franchise given a much needed spotlight (even though the Capcom Fighting Collection is already giving the franchise a much better spotlight.)

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Yeah I think Marvel vs Capcom has some sort of chances of coming back, but definitively Capcom shouldn't make the same error twice of make the game at the same time they are doing something bigger (everyone knows how low the budget of the game was comparing to the rest of SFV), maybe when SFVI establish in the market has a high quality product and after some DLCs for mantain the game active Capcom can start to think in giving a second chances to other projects.

In the other hand unlike companies like Arc System Works and SNK that can be expected to revive their old IPs Capcom manages a huge variety of genres and even if it has under their wings iconic franchises like the proper Street Fighter, Dakrstalkers, Rival Schools, etc they don't require and, at least to what its apparently, they don't care that much about the genre. I would like to be wrong and Capcom shuts my mouth announcing that Darkstalkers aren't dead for real this time and announces a brand new game or gives an opportunity to Hideaki Itsuno to do Rival Schools 3 but I feel that they just wouldn't do that and will limit themselves to make compilations and cameos in the form of skins or the ocassional guest character in SF like Akira Kazama.

Part of this is the reason why I miss MvC, it isn't just a very fun game but it was a way to give a spotlight to characters from longtime dead franchises (and not only in terms of FG) like Darkstalkers, Ghost's n Goblins, Strider, Star Gladiator, Mega Man X, etc.

 

[Quillion]

Part of this is the reason why I miss MvC, it isn't just a very fun game but it was a way to give a spotlight to characters from longtime dead franchises (and not only in terms of FG) like Darkstalkers, Ghost's n Goblins, Strider, Star Gladiator, Mega Man X, etc.

Maybe Capcom should just bite the bullet and do a Capcom-only crossover again.

Yeah, I know about CFE; that just means they can do it again and do it right.

Maybe they could even do a knockback platform fighter as a low-key release like Nick.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I always liked the idea, particulary since my favorite characters in MvC where always the ones of the Capcom side. It would also remove the problems with external interference at the moment to make the roster that limits the options.

 

[Quillion]

I always liked the idea, particulary since my favorite characters in MvC where always the ones of the Capcom side. It would also remove the problems with external interference at the moment to make the roster that limits the options.

Given that there's Capcom Fighting Evolution and PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, are there any other fighting game ideas that deserve to be done again and done right?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Jump Force

 

[Quillion]

Jump Force

Anime licenses are practically Bamco's lifeblood at this point, but they are certainly capable of putting out anything better than warm spit to crap for their licenses.

Should they just farm out a big Jump crossover to ArcSys like they did with DBFZ, or could someone else do it better? At any rate, a Jump crossover can do much better than Ganbarion or Spike Chunsoft.

Maybe they could call in Sora Ltd. for a favor; give Sakurai something to do while he's not working on Smash.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Has anyone here played samurai shodown sen before? It just never really gets mentioned much and I impulsively bought it for xbox 360. I know it’s controversial so I’m just wondering what people think of it.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Maybe they could call in Sora Ltd. for a favor; give Sakurai something to do while he's not working on Smash.

You say it like if isn't obvious that the man is so workaholic that he is probably already in other project rn.
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Has anyone here played samurai shodown sen before? It just never really gets mentioned much and I impulsively bought it for xbox 360. I know it’s controversial so I’m just wondering what people think of it.

I didn't played Sen, but I always liked the artworks and the designs of some of the new characters (though maybe some of they work more in LB rather than SamSho).

 

[dezeray112]

I always kept on wondering, what had happened to this particular trailer shown over 10 years ago.

 

[Quillion]

Here's a question I want to get off my chest:

Is the traditional fighter at an evolutionary dead end?

I'm wondering this because it seems that shooters have been experimenting with so many damn elements like time loops, open worlds, portals, RPG loot and experience systems, paintballing the terrain itself... There's clearly a lot of room for the shooter to branch out into many different directions.

I've said it a few times, but it feels like the traditional fighter isn't a highly variable genre. Even Street Fighter 5 has its "here's a super meter, now here's another super meter that lets you install or reversal or whatever." Part of it is because including a Borderlands-style RPG loot system would really suck in a fighting game, while open worlds, while not bad, would be pretty pointless.

IDK, I just think that the traditional fighter genre has reached its limit. This is just me though.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

All that was for Darkstalkers Resurrection

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Here's a question I want to get off my chest:

Is the traditional fighter at an evolutionary dead end?

I'm wondering this because it seems that shooters have been experimenting with so many damn elements like time loops, open worlds, portals, RPG loot and experience systems, paintballing the terrain itself... There's clearly a lot of room for the shooter to branch out into many different directions.

I've said it a few times, but it feels like the traditional fighter isn't a highly variable genre. Even Street Fighter 5 has its "here's a super meter, now here's another super meter that lets you install or reversal or whatever." Part of it is because including a Borderlands-style RPG loot system would really suck in a fighting game, while open worlds, while not bad, would be pretty pointless.

IDK, I just think that the traditional fighter genre has reached its limit. This is just me though.

I find a very simple answer, yes and no.

Well maybe isn't that simple.

You see, each fighitng game has their things, some of them are more impressive than others, SFVI introduced a mechanic that it's basicallly a mix of all previous mechanics attached into one resource. Meanwhile you have Guilty Gear Strive that introduced Tekken-like Wall Breaks but adapted to the 2D enviroment, DNF Duel has the conversion sistem that expands the "white life" that was seen before in games like SFV now being a core mechanic.

Now, all this are small changes, but why there aren't huge ones?, why we don't make things like make an open world fighting game or being able to grind the characters (while this was actually did before in Red Earth cof cof), the main answer is the competitive scene.

Fighting Games live and die for their communities (especially those that aren't spin offs of already established marks like Marvel, DC, Dragon Ball, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, etc). And most of this community enjoys one thing and it's make tournaments, there is a reason why one of the main events related to fighting games is the EVO that it's exactly a tournament.

There is no reason to not try to do a super different game with brand new mechanics never seen before but since the people who still plays the game after the first weeks are the ones who plays for the online then there is the risk to made the game "unfun" for that particular sector.

It's very similar to Pokémon now that I think about it, we still don't know how would Scarlet and Violet be but most likely would remove some of the most "out of place" mechanics like the two styles for mantain the competitive fandom happy.

 

[Quillion]

Infinity Sorcerer : I don't know about the competitive scene; Call of Duty is mostly played for its multiplayer, yet I can't think of any traditional fighters that attract the bandwagoning hipster vitriol that Call of Duty does.

What you're saying is understandable though; competitive players are a lot more sensitive to little changes in gameplay such as one move being three frames faster or slower than a previous patch. Therefore, they'll be the first to be vitriolic if gigantic changes were made.

Still, if we held Pokémon and Call of Duty to the standard of innovation that traditional fighters are held to, I'm sure those two franchises would be viewed as highly as 3D Mario. People don't call Twilight Princess a gigantic leap forward from Ocarina of Time just because you can combo with Link's sword attack string in the former and not in the latter.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

True but the thing is that even if Call of Duty or even Pokémon that I used has an example has multiplayers and even became an integral part of them the fighting games borned especifically has a competitive game against an active player. Over all genres are probably the one most focused on that, I aren't a competitive player because first for all I suck in most games and even if I play a lot online games like Third Strike, 2002UM or Accent Core +R I usually tend to search casual matches where people just want to pass the time. Yet I perfectly know that there it is a scene and that its so important that there it was even a controversy that afaik it's still active right now about the frame data. I don't see it has a good thing but also don't see it has a bad thing, yet has I said before most casual players excluding some of them like me only plays for the first weeks or with some luck the firsts months until the game stills being trending and then goes to play the next game, periodically coming back just to see the new DLC that if it was of their attention they buy it, try it and goes to play other game again, the only people who plays it for all the life cycle (and even after) are the competitve players.

Or at least in most case, the only games that finds a way to mantain the casual audience active are those who are made for the fandom (Injustice, Marvel vs Capcom, Smash, etc) yet usually casual players sees videos of compettive players and if their favorite youtubers says that the game is trash they probably wouldn't even give it a try.

yet I can't think of any traditional fighters that attract the bandwagoning hipster vitriol that Call of Duty does.

Probably because more people plays Call of Duty than traditional fighting games but in promedium there are more casual players in Call of Duty and similar games than casual players in fighting games.

 

[Quillion]

Infinity Sorcerer : So what you're saying is that while multiplayer is a vital component of games like Call of Duty, Pokémon, or even Dark Souls, Fighting Games (starting circa SF2) were designed with multiplayer as the main event of its design with single player being an afterthought.

I think you're right there, but I'd expand the idea that the only people who play after the first few months of purchase are the competitive players. People who play after the first few months are those who want to optimize the game's mechanics and find exploits, regardless of whether the game is multiplayer or not.

This is the reason why Breath of the Wild is played avidly five years after release, while all of FromSoft's games DeS-on have a lot of players for even their older games. It's also why Minecraft doesn't need a sequel. I think the driving force of retaining players past the purchase window is really emergent gameplay, with competitive merely being a subset of that.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Not counting games that where more like simulators of MMA rather than fighting games, since Karate Champ the PvP factor was there. There it was single player of course (there is a reson why the mode even in these days is still called "Arcade") but the main source of money where the combats between players. What do you say it's true, has I said there are exceptions to the "only competitve players still plays the game after the wave" but it's a way smaller group.

The examples aren't bad thought the difference is that in all those games people search a different type of experience, maybe the most similar thing would be Minecraft with the PVP servers but even then would fall more in the Pokémon/CoD category than anything else.

 

[Quillion]

So I've been checking out what SF6 has planned for its revamped World Tour mode, and it seems you'll be playing as your own player avatar while meeting the other characters along the way. I think it's obvious that all the other characters will be your teachers a la DB Xenoverse while you can mix and match moves from each of these characters for your own character.

I find this to be a great idea, because after all this talk of traditional fighters and learning and experimenting with elements from other genres, I've been wondering if a fighting game can lean completely into that idea. I actually would love to see a fighting game that only has a single playable character: your Avatar. The gist of the game is that you can travel the world learning fighting techniques from different masters, allowing you to learn different normals and specials you can mix and match, albeit with some kind of limit. You could have your character undergo exercises that changes their stats, such as weightlifting that increases brute strength, agility training to increase movement speed, or aerobics to increase health in battle. You could even acquire "standard" fighting game mechanics as part of the training such as burst, super meter usage, parrying, rolling/spotdodging, running, just frame upgrades, all things like that. And there would be the usual plot of stopping some sort of evil organization from taking over the world. And then you could take your built-up character into online mode (justified in-story as a fighting tournament) where you could fight against other players' built-up characters.

If there's a game that has done exactly the idea I've mentioned above, I want to know about it. If SF6 implements exactly that idea for World Tour mode, so much the better.

 

[dezeray112]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Probably know what to expect for ASW, SNK and Capcom. Namco could possibly reveal a new Tekken game and maybe Warner Bros could reveal a new MK game?

 

[Deleted member]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Probably know what to expect for ASW, SNK and Capcom. Namco could possibly reveal a new Tekken game and maybe Warner Bros could reveal a new MK game?

Warner I'm feeling it'll be Multiversus stuff. MK feels more like a Game Awards thing. You Need know though.

Namco I could see a Tekken teaser. Another Arc anime fighter like OP or something would be cool but it's proablly too early for that.

 

[dezeray112]

Warner I'm feeling it'll be Multiversus stuff. MK feels more like a Game Awards thing. You Need know though.

That makes sense and I do agree that MK will be more suited to the Game Awards.

 

[Deleted member]

That makes sense and I do agree that MK will be more suited to the Game Awards.

A teaser here is always possible. But Geoff does have a built in relationship with MK at his shows.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

For SNK there are two particular options:

• Team 4 Sneak Peak Samurai Shodown Team
• Goenitz has a free Boss Challenge character like Rugal for accompany A. Orochi Team.

 

[dezeray112]

Today is the last day of the EVO championships in which I do anticipate that there will be big reveals and announcements for fighting game news coming during the finals.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

We already get quite a lot of good news, particulary the day started with rollback for Dragon Ball FighterZ something that its great!, I just hope that ArcSys also reminds Xrd...

 

[toonito]

Garou 2 wow SNK goin off lol

 

[Quillion]

Infinity Sorcerer : Your desire for a Garou/FF continuation aged well then:

Not technically interquels but FF/AOF timeline was be in the fridge for a long time, their stories advanced in the KOF timeline but we need to be honest, the FF/AOF characters in KOF are mostly a joke, Joe never being able to have a date with Lily, Andy escaping from Mai's suggestions of have childrens, the Kyokugenryu Dojo having problems with the money, Kasumi searching his dad who is always near her, etc. We need a new game of their actual timeline.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Assuming this game will be a direct sequel to Garou Mark of the Wolves, I hope they focus on making new characters and don’t just bring back a bunch of characters from the fatal fury series. I think SNK’s games in general have had a pretty big problem lately with not changing the status quo of the lore and pandering to nostalgia too much so I hope that doesn’t happen to Garou

 

[Quillion]

Assuming this game will be a direct sequel to Garou Mark of the Wolves, I hope they focus on making new characters and don’t just bring back a bunch of characters from the fatal fury series. I think SNK’s games in general have had a pretty big problem lately with not changing the status quo of the lore and pandering to nostalgia too much so I hope that doesn’t happen to Garou

Garou 1 itself was intended as a soft reboot to FF, so I'd hope they'll continue with its mostly new cast.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Infinity Sorcerer : Your desire for a Garou/FF continuation aged well then:

IM SI ****ING HAPPY MAN FOR REAL YOOOOOOOOO.

I REALLY HOPE THIS **** SELLS LIKE HOTCAKES SINCE MOST LIKELY WE WOULDNT HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY AGAIN