Falcon Allies Week 3:Captain Falcon(extend)/Snake

[Darxmarth23]

I added some stuff to my tier list post two pages ago.

Yay for absolute deviation!

 

[sMexy-Blu]

fox's laz0rs are ****.

falco's laz0rs are bigger ****

 

[Darxmarth23]

falco's laz0rs are bigger ****

Reason why he'd be a good teammate.

Besides, he get you your bread.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

well, i've teamed with snake in person with my falcon. the "YESZ NOW" combo as i like to call it is inescapable. Falcon gets a c4 planted on him while falcon upb's the opponent (YESZ) and as the opponent is in the air, its hard to predict when it will detonate so it's very hard to airdodge so when you do airdodge you get blown up (NOW). falcon can also help snake's recovery in many ways, and considering snake is one of the best characters anyway, it is a good team.

just bumping this, because I feel I was completely ignored.

 

[Face124]

projectiles are a pro. Maybe less in 2v2, but still a pro.
Also, there are quite some effective strats involving samus' projectiles and falcon's speed+attacks.

Ok, but so what? Falcon seems to have more. also, Samus' is a quick attacked character mainly, she doesnt benefit as much from the fact that laggy attacks are better as much as Falcon does, a poin which I forget in the last post.

Fox's speed is a pro, just like it is a pro for falcon. And his blaster can deal damage and his quick Dsmash is very effective.

How is his D-smash very effective? His blaster can deal damage, but why is that relevant?

Mario's fire balls can setup for quite some team work.
Also, Mario's quite quick F/Usmash can deal quite some damage, even in the 'mayhem'

Ok, and Falcon's attacks can deal damage too. As you said, Mario has fast attacks generally, so not much of and advantage for him compared to Falcon. What do you mean by "quite some team work"

Luigi's green missle can be very effective in team battles, same is true about luigi's up b. (it can quickly become the fire uppercut in the 'mayhem'.)

granted, it is harder to punish in teams, but see how risky that attack is if not used very carefully? You say, perhaps kill your partner, then the other team can wombo combo and prolly just take a stock off, as it takes a while to die off the top, or enough time to do it anyway.

Really, most of the points you said were either irrelevant statements with pretty much no impact on the ratio, good things about attacks that I could easily say for all of falcon's moves or something which Falcon can do better. Also, none of the points you said made that team better than Falcon-Falcon.

 

[Zeallyx]

projectiles are a pro. Maybe less in 2v2, but still a pro.
Also, there are quite some effective strats involving samus' projectiles and falcon's speed+attacks.

Ok, but so what? Falcon seems to have more. also, Samus' is a quick attacked character mainly, she doesnt benefit as much from the fact that laggy attacks are better as much as Falcon does, a poin which I forget in the last post.

Fox's speed is a pro, just like it is a pro for falcon. And his blaster can deal damage and his quick Dsmash is very effective.

How is his D-smash very effective? His blaster can deal damage, but why is that relevant?

Mario's fire balls can setup for quite some team work.
Also, Mario's quite quick F/Usmash can deal quite some damage, even in the 'mayhem'

Ok, and Falcon's attacks can deal damage too. As you said, Mario has fast attacks generally, so not much of and advantage for him compared to Falcon. What do you mean by "quite some team work"

Luigi's green missle can be very effective in team battles, same is true about luigi's up b. (it can quickly become the fire uppercut in the 'mayhem'.)

granted, it is harder to punish in teams, but see how risky that attack is if not used very carefully? You say, perhaps kill your partner, then the other team can wombo combo and prolly just take a stock off, as it takes a while to die off the top, or enough time to do it anyway.

Really, most of the points you said were either irrelevant statements with pretty much no impact on the ratio, good things about attacks that I could easily say for all of falcon's moves or something which Falcon can do better. Also, none of the points you said made that team better than Falcon-Falcon.

I just don't understand how you can deny the facts.

How in the name of..
falcon will get *****, even in teams.

And for the record. I have entered a doubles tourny. Granted, it was online, but there was next to no lag, you can take my word on that.

I was in a team (I was falcon) with a MK. We were facing a team consisting of a wolf and a MK.
And face, you know my falcon does not suck, but even in doubles, falcon has trouble getting attacks in. A jab>jab>grab combo is way less effective in doubles, so that doesn't help racking up damage, and all falcon's smashes are still hard to connect with.

Well, we got *****. I couldn't do much against the team, for reasons also present in 1v1.

The grab release>Falcon punch/knee is not very reliable at all, too.

Falcon is still falcon, even in teams.

Falcon-Falcon 2/10

 

[Player-3]

Doubles and Singles cant be compared
a jab jab gab shouldnt work in doubles and therefore its different, falcon is NOT bottom of bottom on the DOUBLES tier list, hes a great teammate

 

[Zeallyx]

Doubles and Singles cant be compared
a jab jab gab shouldnt work in doubles and therefore its different, falcon is NOT bottom of bottom on the DOUBLES tier list, hes a great teammate

That the jab>jab>grab doesn't work is not something good. Like I said before, falcon's smashes are still hard to connect with in doubles, so his jab is still one of the safer moves, but it doesn't work in doubles.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Use moves with big hitboxes. U-air works. U-tilt works.

 

[Dxkid]

epic bump

updated hmm my 2 cents

Snake is a hard partner why cuz you have to watch for c4,mines,n grenades lukly he has power on his side and graet mindgames that snake can use plus power is on his side while you have speed and the PAWNCH :D

my rating 9/10

Falcon is Falcon but this mean double the speed,double the mindgames,double the combos,double the PAWNCH
but.....
Falcon/Falcon is the samething and nothing can change that
my rating: 4/10

 

[Darxmarth23]

Snake is a beast. I would say 8/10. He is pretty hard to get rid of. The only thing i see as a problem is that he will be stealing all of your thunder.

 

[Zodac]

can we get an update on the first post please?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I hate that everyone ignored my post. Especially since I said snake a week ago.

 

[Player-3]

I hate that everyone ignored my post. Especially since I said snake a week ago.

didnt ignored it, but itd be better to mine the falcon then blow it up during the Flacon dives invincibility frames for the extra damage

NAO YES

 

[Darxmarth23]

I hate that everyone ignored my post. Especially since I said snake a week ago.

We're not going to respond to everything we see. Snake wasn't being discussed at the time.

 

[t3h n00b]

Fox: no combos, forced to be aggresive to work with Falcon.

Wombo Combo! And pretty good gimping, imo at least, although that goes both ways

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

didnt ignored it, but itd be better to mine the falcon then blow it up during the Flacon dives invincibility frames for the extra damage

NAO YES

Blown up AFTER. Simply air-dodge chase them and blow em up. Works 99% of the time. Just gotta depend on snake. YES NAO.

 

[Player-3]

Blown up AFTER. Simply air-dodge chase them and blow em up. Works 99% of the time. Just gotta depend on snake. YES NAO.

i never play snake.. does the c4 switch to them?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Snake's C4 can switch from person to person if they come into contact, you'll hear the sticky bomb sound if it does.

And no, I don't play teams so don't bug me about this thread lol *has been purposely ignoring it*

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i never play snake.. does the c4 switch to them?

I've teamed with a snake before I knew about this combo, and we invented it by accident. Yes, it does switch, and yes, it does ****.

 

[Tim-Tim]

its a good match up i'd say 7/10
snake helps falcon with projectiles, etc etc

 

[Winnar]

Okay so I know I'm way bringing up a way dead subject, but anyone who says falcon and falcon aren't a good team after seeing this will promptly receive a knee to the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TePtKpaOY8&feature=related

Also Snake and Falcon ehhhhh I dunno I've never seen such a weird combination, I can't imagine it being very good in terms of teamplay. Snake is pretty good but I can't think of any way in which Falcon supplements Snake's game in teams or vice versa.

 

[Zeallyx]

Okay so I know I'm way bringing up a way dead subject, but anyone who says falcon and falcon aren't a good team after seeing this will promptly receive a knee to the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TePtKpaOY8&feature=related

Also Snake and Falcon ehhhhh I dunno I've never seen such a weird combination, I can't imagine it being very good in terms of teamplay. Snake is pretty good but I can't think of any way in which Falcon supplements Snake's game in teams or vice versa.

A falcon falcon team isn't very effective
*dodges knee*..yesz..

also, Snake's tilts are always effective

 

[Lethon]

We need a Brawl Doubles tier list

Maybe a place where Falcon won't be on the bottom

 

[Zeallyx]

We need a Brawl Doubles tier list

Maybe a place where Falcon won't be on the bottom

He will most likely be bottom on the doubles list too.

play brawl+, 64 or melee for a better falcon.

 

[Winnar]

A falcon falcon team isn't very effective
*dodges knee*..yesz..

also, Snake's tilts are always effective

But you haven't given any valid reasons why a falcon falcon team "isn't very effective" Falcon arguably supplements Falcon's game better than anyone.

The dynamics of doubles and the dynamics of singles are vastly different. While an individual character's strength is important, also equally (if not more) important is that both characters compliment each other's game. And no, I'm not talking wombo-combo style moves that have been rehearsed, I'm talking about two characters simply being where the other cannot. Falcon-Falcon is a viable team and I'll prove it. Somehow. I now say 7/10

Then again I doubt it will matter, every logical and sensible argument anyone has provided that is pro-falcon-falcon you've tossed aside claiming "priority" or "melee" or something stupid like that. I stopped reading them and started skimming them after the 3rd or so where you just repeat yourself.

For Snake-Falcon, I don't know. It seems like Falcon would just get in the way for the most part. There might be a few cool combos you can pull off together, but ehhhhh I guess it could be alright. Really depends on the two players, but until I see something 6/10

Oh, and 9/10 for Metaknight. Just because he's ridiculous doesn't mean he makes for a perfect doubles partner

Oh and Wario (from experience) 8/10

 

[Zeallyx]

But you haven't given any valid reasons why a falcon falcon team "isn't very effective" Falcon arguably supplements Falcon's game better than anyone.

The dynamics of doubles and the dynamics of singles are vastly different. While an individual character's strength is important, also equally (if not more) important is that both characters compliment each other's game. And no, I'm not talking wombo-combo style moves that have been rehearsed, I'm talking about two characters simply being where the other cannot. Falcon-Falcon is a viable team and I'll prove it. Somehow. I now say 7/10

Then again I doubt it will matter, every logical and sensible argument anyone has provided that is pro-falcon-falcon you've tossed aside claiming "priority" or "melee" or something stupid like that. I stopped reading them and started skimming them after the 3rd or so where you just repeat yourself.

For Snake-Falcon, I don't know. It seems like Falcon would just get in the way for the most part. There might be a few cool combos you can pull off together, but ehhhhh I guess it could be alright. Really depends on the two players, but until I see something 6/10

Oh, and 9/10 for Metaknight. Just because he's ridiculous doesn't mean he makes for a perfect doubles partner

Oh and Wario (from experience) 8/10

'something stupid as priority' < did you really just say that?

anyway, falcon-falcon teams suck bad.
I am speaking from experience, you cannot touch a MK-MK team, or a MK-wolf team etc.

what are you gonna do..seriously..are you gonna hope for surprise knee's/punches?

you will disregard this as 'not a good reason' anyway, so tell me, what makes falcon-falcon a good team?
do they make up for eachothers flaws? no they dont
do they add something new (projectiles, ways of approach) etc.? no

all you can hope for is a grab release knee or punch, wich isn't likely to happen.

I know team battles are different than 1v1, but dont go deny the facts now (the facts applying to team and 1v1 matches)

 

[Winnar]

'something stupid as priority' < did you really just say that?

anyway, falcon-falcon teams suck bad.
I am speaking from experience, you cannot touch a MK-MK team, or a MK-wolf team etc.

what are you gonna do..seriously..are you gonna hope for surprise knee's/punches?

you will disregard this as 'not a good reason' anyway, so tell me, what makes falcon-falcon a good team?
do they make up for eachothers flaws? no they dont
do they add something new (projectiles, ways of approach) etc.? no

all you can hope for is a grab release knee or punch, wich isn't likely to happen.

I know team battles are different than 1v1, but dont go deny the facts now (the facts applying to team and 1v1 matches)

There are workarounds for his lack of priority. If there weren't then how would any of us play him in singles? Speed and mindgames, you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time or you will get crushed as Falcon (as almost anyone for that matter, though especially Falcon because it's one of the few things he's capable of). It's not the best solution, but when you can't rely on priority you find ways around it. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

No, surprise knees/punches(lolwut) aren't going to win you matches, at least not consistently (definition: surprise). Sure, they're nice every now and then but obviously I'm arguing that Falcon-Falcon is consistently viable.

Also, don't pretend to ask questions when you have no intention of hearing the answer to. "do they make up for eachothers flaws? do they add something new (projectiles, ways of approach) etc.?" Yeah, actually, they do. The higher up you get in doubles, the more important synergy becomes. Instead of just having two fights going on at the same time you have one fight between two teams. Again, it's hard to explain, you have to experience it to really understand.

The point is that Falcon is good at doubles because in the right hands he's a very good team player. He has many strong moves that are difficult to set up by himself, but with a teammate he can take advantage of other people's setups quite beautifully. Falcon sets up for Falcon quite well, and because of the high priority of fail knee you can save Falcon from a bunch of things/gimp opponents for your partner. There are so many things two Falcons can do that you aren't even trying to imagine.

And obviously double metaknight is going to wreck double falcon are you crazy? We're talking about Falcon - ______ teams, not MK - ______ teams.

Also pivot walking is the greatest thing in the history of Super Smash Bros. If all else fails just pivot walk your way to success. Or DOUBLE pivot walk your way to success. Make train noises. Brilyant metamindgames rite thur </rambling>

 

[Zeallyx]

There are workarounds for his lack of priority. If there weren't then how would any of us play him in singles? Speed and mindgames, you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time or you will get crushed as Falcon (as almost anyone for that matter, though especially Falcon because it's one of the few things he's capable of). It's not the best solution, but when you can't rely on priority you find ways around it. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

No, surprise knees/punches(lolwut) aren't going to win you matches, at least not consistently (definition: surprise). Sure, they're nice every now and then but obviously I'm arguing that Falcon-Falcon is consistently viable.

Also, don't pretend to ask questions when you have no intention of hearing the answer to. "do they make up for eachothers flaws? do they add something new (projectiles, ways of approach) etc.?" Yeah, actually, they do. The higher up you get in doubles, the more important synergy becomes. Instead of just having two fights going on at the same time you have one fight between two teams. Again, it's hard to explain, you have to experience it to really understand.

The point is that Falcon is good at doubles because in the right hands he's a very good team player. He has many strong moves that are difficult to set up by himself, but with a teammate he can take advantage of other people's setups quite beautifully. Falcon sets up for Falcon quite well, and because of the high priority of fail knee you can save Falcon from a bunch of things/gimp opponents for your partner. There are so many things two Falcons can do that you aren't even trying to imagine.

And obviously double metaknight is going to wreck double falcon are you crazy? We're talking about Falcon - ______ teams, not MK - ______ teams.

Also pivot walking is the greatest thing in the history of Super Smash Bros. If all else fails just pivot walk your way to success. Or DOUBLE pivot walk your way to success. Make train noises. Brilyant metamindgames rite thur </rambling>

No matter how 'good' falcon is as a team player, other characters are better.
Its just true.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player.

and said setups for your attacks are unreliable, as the other team consists of 2 characters too.

 

[Player-3]

No matter how 'good' falcon is as a team player, other characters are better.
Its just true.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player.

and said setups for your attacks are unreliable, as the other team consists of 2 characters too.

Then hes not 1/10 is he?

l2notcontradictyourself

 

[Zeallyx]

No matter how 'good' falcon is as a team player, other characters are better.
Its just true.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player.

and said setups for your attacks are unreliable, as the other team consists of 2 characters too.

Then hes not 1/10 is he?

l2notcontradictyourself

lrn2read.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player = falcon-falcon, 1/10

 

[Player-3]

lrn2read.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player = falcon-falcon, 1/10

why are we comparing ratings
thats stupid.

a character is THIS good, other characters are better, yes, but that doesnt mean 1/10
you guys are using stupidly flawed reasoning and comparing to other characters, which is just RIDICULOUS
if your going to that you need a 0-36 ranking

 

[Zeallyx]

why are we comparing ratings
thats stupid.

a character is THIS good, other characters are better, yes, but that doesnt mean 1/10
you guys are using stupidly flawed reasoning and comparing to other characters, which is just RIDICULOUS
if your going to that you need a 0-36 ranking

hahaha
do I seriously have to explain how this rating works haha
comparing to other characters is A MUST to avoid wrong ratios (something that has to be done in the matchup thread, too)

when a character is the worst, that would make him 1/10, on a scale from 1/10.
lrn2ratio lol

 

[Winnar]

No matter how 'good' falcon is as a team player, other characters are better.
Its just true.

every other char as a team player>falcon as a team player.

and said setups for your attacks are unreliable, as the other team consists of 2 characters too.

See, you just did it again. You disregarded my ENTIRE argument by qualifying your own opinions. You can't just say "Oh, well this is just how it is, you know" and then go and accuse me of doing the same thing when I'm going well out of my way NOT to.

Besides, what you're arguing is a logical fallacy. You're claiming evidence that we have yet to prove.

It's not until we decide upon an opinion to be closest to the truth that we can start using that truth to argue other points.

 

[Player-3]

See, you just did it again. You disregarded my ENTIRE argument by qualifying your own opinions. You can't just say "Oh, well this is just how it is, you know" and then go and accuse me of doing the same thing when I'm going well out of my way NOT to.

Besides, what you're arguing is a logical fallacy. You're claiming evidence that we have yet to prove.

It's not until we decide upon an opinion to be closest to the truth that we can start using that truth to argue other points.

I concur, my compatriot

 

[Zeallyx]

See, you just did it again. You disregarded my ENTIRE argument by qualifying your own opinions. You can't just say "Oh, well this is just how it is, you know" and then go and accuse me of doing the same thing when I'm going well out of my way NOT to.

Besides, what you're arguing is a logical fallacy. You're claiming evidence that we have yet to prove.

It's not until we decide upon an opinion to be closest to the truth that we can start using that truth to argue other points.

..I did not use my opinion.
also, So, you are saying, that even after you 'went out of your way' we still have to prove falcon isn't the worst teammate.
ok then, start proving it then..

ask yourself this question: will I go to a doubles tourny with a falcon-falcon team?
my answer: offcourse not. Doubles don't suddenly make up for all of falcon's flaws (though, some are covered) and make him tourny viable.

A falcon-falcon team will get ***** man.

 

[Player-3]

There are workarounds for his lack of priority. If there weren't then how would any of us play him in singles? Speed and mindgames, you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time or you will get crushed as Falcon (as almost anyone for that matter, though especially Falcon because it's one of the few things he's capable of). It's not the best solution, but when you can't rely on priority you find ways around it. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

No, surprise knees/punches(lolwut) aren't going to win you matches, at least not consistently (definition: surprise). Sure, they're nice every now and then but obviously I'm arguing that Falcon-Falcon is consistently viable.

Also, don't pretend to ask questions when you have no intention of hearing the answer to. "do they make up for eachothers flaws? do they add something new (projectiles, ways of approach) etc.?" Yeah, actually, they do. The higher up you get in doubles, the more important synergy becomes. Instead of just having two fights going on at the same time you have one fight between two teams. Again, it's hard to explain, you have to experience it to really understand.

The point is that Falcon is good at doubles because in the right hands he's a very good team player. He has many strong moves that are difficult to set up by himself, but with a teammate he can take advantage of other people's setups quite beautifully. Falcon sets up for Falcon quite well, and because of the high priority of fail knee you can save Falcon from a bunch of things/gimp opponents for your partner. There are so many things two Falcons can do that you aren't even trying to imagine.

And obviously double metaknight is going to wreck double falcon are you crazy? We're talking about Falcon - ______ teams, not MK - ______ teams.

Also pivot walking is the greatest thing in the history of Super Smash Bros. If all else fails just pivot walk your way to success. Or DOUBLE pivot walk your way to success. Make train noises. Brilyant metamindgames rite thur </rambling>

..I did not use my opinion.
also, So, you are saying, that even after you 'went out of your way' we still have to prove falcon isn't the worst teammate.
ok then, start proving it then..

See above.....

 

[Winnar]

Actually I did go to a tourney as double falcons. Chudat's December biweekly with my 12 year old brother who had not played brawl in months.

Because we've teamed in smash bros melee for years now we have a good deal of synergy, so we held our own all things considered. If he were better as Falcon and a little more practiced (or if we cared enough at the tourney, we were there to have fun and see people for the first time in a while so we had no delusions of winning, hence the falcon-falcon) I think we could have gotten pretty far in one of the most respectable biweeklies in the country. We wouldn't have won, obviously, because there are better team combinations than ANYONE - Falcon, but that isn't the point.

The point is that we're deciding if you have one falcon on a team (as a given), would having another Falcon be better or worse than, say, Link.

 

[Zeallyx]

Actually I did go to a tourney as double falcons. Chudat's December biweekly with my 12 year old brother who had not played brawl in months.

Because we've teamed in smash bros melee for years now we have a good deal of synergy, so we held our own all things considered. If he were better as Falcon and a little more practiced (or if we cared enough at the tourney, we were there to have fun and see people for the first time in a while so we had no delusions of winning, hence the falcon-falcon) I think we could have gotten pretty far in one of the most respectable biweeklies in the country. We wouldn't have won, obviously, because there are better team combinations than ANYONE - Falcon, but that isn't the point.

The point is that we're deciding if you have one falcon on a team (as a given), would having another Falcon be better or worse than, say, Link.

I know. Link is a better teammate overall.

and @P3:
lolwut..shouldn't you quote ME twice in order to show if I ever used opinions in this arguement?

 

[Player-3]

I know. Link is a better teammate overall.

and @P3:
lolwut..shouldn't you quote ME twice in order to show if I ever used opinions in this arguement?

err
i was saying
read his post, it kinda proves that falcon isnt the worst

Ganon is worse.
/thistopic