Am I the only one finding that PS1 has the worst ledges ever ? Because I sure hate them.
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Falco Stage Discussion ~ Week 7/8: Pokemon Stadium 2 and Rainbow Cruise
- Thread starter Vlade
- Start date
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
Lylat...
Don't hate it, but don't love it.
I'd say it's a good counterpick for certain characters (can't really name them atm) that don't rely on gimping you. Camp game isn't really affected and platforms can prove helpful from time to time. I can't really say much though cause I don't think while I play on this stage xD
6/10
PS1
The only thing I absolutely HATE about this stage is the edge, it has to be sweet spotted or it gives you a handful of frustration.
Neutral transformation I love for falco, great for his camping game. Grass transformation I like too, doesn't hurt you much and the little gaps can prove helpful in many situations.
Fire is good for stalling/pseudo infinite's although it hurts you against certain characters that have really good close distance game against falco.
Water... Windmill sucks, platforms are meh.
I'd say 6/10
Don't hate it, but don't love it.
I'd say it's a good counterpick for certain characters (can't really name them atm) that don't rely on gimping you. Camp game isn't really affected and platforms can prove helpful from time to time. I can't really say much though cause I don't think while I play on this stage xD
6/10
PS1
The only thing I absolutely HATE about this stage is the edge, it has to be sweet spotted or it gives you a handful of frustration.
Neutral transformation I love for falco, great for his camping game. Grass transformation I like too, doesn't hurt you much and the little gaps can prove helpful in many situations.
Fire is good for stalling/pseudo infinite's although it hurts you against certain characters that have really good close distance game against falco.
Water... Windmill sucks, platforms are meh.
I'd say 6/10
Cloud9157
Smash Journeyman
Ban LC, /discussion on that stage
Would PS1/s ceiling actually be good for our Usmash? Or does it not even make that much of a difference?
Would PS1/s ceiling actually be good for our Usmash? Or does it not even make that much of a difference?
Vlade
Social Outcast
I'm curious to hear your reasons for banning Lylat over Brinstar
swordsaint
Smash Master
Lylats not a terrible stage for Falco imo.
Recovering, I have no issues I wouldn't have on any other stage. Edgeguards remain the same. The only reason you'll be getting 'gayed' by the ledge is if you screw up. It is VERY easy to space your phantasm right to grab the ledge, and it doesn't hurt firebird at all imo. Why? Because firebirds already trash, and if you're ever forced to use it even on a normal stage you should be dead. I don't think it tilts enough to hurt us.
Onstage, the characters people are suggesting we ban this on won't escape the chaingrab because of the slants. The characters that are good on this stage (MK, Snake) both fall fast enough, or are big enough to be chaingrabbed down a small slant. Lylats slants aren't huge by any means.
The slants HELP your camping game providing you know where to go. Go to the lower side, and SHDL from the lower side to the higher side. By doing this, both lasers shoot across the ground level of Lylat, making approaching difficult for opponents when combined with the 'umbrella' effect of the platforms, that additionally we can platform cancel on. I don't think the ceiling here is overly high either. It's average, meaning our kill options are still intact. Upsmash will still kill at reasonable percents and our other kill options uair/bair remain unphased seeing as most of the time our bair will kill an enemy that's already offstage anyway.
I don't find our phantasm game onstage to be hurt much. We can use it in slightly different ways here, by jumping a little higher and as a GTFO move from a short hop or full hop. The platforms are at good heights for this. In any case, if you're abusing phantasm so much onstage as to be affected by Lylats slants a great deal,l you should consider using your phantasm less because it's overrated.
Recovering, I have no issues I wouldn't have on any other stage. Edgeguards remain the same. The only reason you'll be getting 'gayed' by the ledge is if you screw up. It is VERY easy to space your phantasm right to grab the ledge, and it doesn't hurt firebird at all imo. Why? Because firebirds already trash, and if you're ever forced to use it even on a normal stage you should be dead. I don't think it tilts enough to hurt us.
Onstage, the characters people are suggesting we ban this on won't escape the chaingrab because of the slants. The characters that are good on this stage (MK, Snake) both fall fast enough, or are big enough to be chaingrabbed down a small slant. Lylats slants aren't huge by any means.
The slants HELP your camping game providing you know where to go. Go to the lower side, and SHDL from the lower side to the higher side. By doing this, both lasers shoot across the ground level of Lylat, making approaching difficult for opponents when combined with the 'umbrella' effect of the platforms, that additionally we can platform cancel on. I don't think the ceiling here is overly high either. It's average, meaning our kill options are still intact. Upsmash will still kill at reasonable percents and our other kill options uair/bair remain unphased seeing as most of the time our bair will kill an enemy that's already offstage anyway.
I don't find our phantasm game onstage to be hurt much. We can use it in slightly different ways here, by jumping a little higher and as a GTFO move from a short hop or full hop. The platforms are at good heights for this. In any case, if you're abusing phantasm so much onstage as to be affected by Lylats slants a great deal,l you should consider using your phantasm less because it's overrated.
Zephyros
Smash Apprentice
Is there any more discussion for either of these stages, or is it time to discuss another level?
Vlade
Social Outcast
It hasn't been very long yet so I'm going to leave the discussion open for maybe another week
Xzax Kasrani
Smash Master
PS1 is a great Falco stage IMO. When you illusion to the ledge it can be pretty gay tho 
But it overall is a big and campy stage with platforms at some points and even walls. Thats Falco central, overall its one of my favorites. Just camp and play gay as ****.
Lylat, I hate and never play there so I won't be much help haha
But it overall is a big and campy stage with platforms at some points and even walls. Thats Falco central, overall its one of my favorites. Just camp and play gay as ****.
Lylat, I hate and never play there so I won't be much help haha
Zephyros
Smash Apprentice
Also on the windmill transformation, if standing on the right side of the stage, your grounded lasers are at the correct height to hit an opponent camping/waiting on the other side of the sloped platform by the windmill. Or if you are chilling under the windmill, you can safely fire grounded lasers across the stage.
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
Who should we use these stages against.
I personally consider PS1 a nice alternative to smashville and FD.
I really don't know who to take to LC, although I do know you should never take a toon link there (though i've never fought one to give me any real trouble in that stage)
I personally consider PS1 a nice alternative to smashville and FD.
I really don't know who to take to LC, although I do know you should never take a toon link there (though i've never fought one to give me any real trouble in that stage)
Vlade
Social Outcast
Yoshi's Island is the best stage to take toon link
This is 90% of the reason I ban PS1 when there's nothing serious worth banning. Hate that ****ing stage.
Zephyros
Smash Apprentice
Well it is probably time for another stage discussion since this hasn't had a new post in a few weeks.
I'd say it's time to discuss Frigate.
Vlade
Social Outcast
Updated.
Please discuss Frigate Orpheon and Final Destination
Please discuss Frigate Orpheon and Final Destination
M@v
Subarashii!
Only one for now. I'll discuss Frigate. Everything I do on this stage I learned from watching Larry /meatride.
Anyway, vs most opponents, play the stage like this:
Phase one:
camp the left side of the stage under the platform. Very safe here. Punish them for approaching. Avoid right side of the stage like the plague unless you got a cg.
Phase two:
-The reason why frigate is an awesome falco cp.
-Camp in center inside the dip. Have fun owning anyone who tries to come in after you. The platform above makes reading attacks from above easy. The dip makes camping safe and puts the opponent at a disadvantage when trying to come in after you.
-If you get knocked out of center, you should be a sad panda, but also try very hard to get the center back, especially if they are using the same tactic.
PS Im tired D:
Anyway, vs most opponents, play the stage like this:
Phase one:
camp the left side of the stage under the platform. Very safe here
. Punish them for approaching. Avoid right side of the stage like the plague unless you got a cg.Phase two:
-The reason why frigate is an awesome falco cp.
-Camp in center inside the dip. Have fun owning anyone who tries to come in after you. The platform above makes reading attacks from above easy. The dip makes camping safe and puts the opponent at a disadvantage when trying to come in after you.
-If you get knocked out of center, you should be a sad panda, but also try very hard to get the center back, especially if they are using the same tactic.
PS Im tired D:
Frigate isn't that bad for Falco, the only problem is the right side of the first part of the stage. Try to force the fight to the left side to make it easier on yourself until the stage flips. The second part of the stage can be really good for you if you take control of the center, laser camping becomes much more effective since the both lasers will be at ground level. Overall it's not really stage I'd consider counter picking, there's usually better stages to choose.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
I think Falco is near impossible to approach on the 1st left half of Frigate.
My favorite stage to get CP'd into.
My favorite stage to get CP'd into.
MARLX
Smash Journeyman
week 6-7
For friget when the stage flips the first time the middle is where you can get a lot of combos off like air combos the chain grab in place or just the jab cancel. For FD you have a chance to use your lasers and camp but good because the stage is flat and falco can get alot of attacks off.
For friget when the stage flips the first time the middle is where you can get a lot of combos off like air combos the chain grab in place or just the jab cancel. For FD you have a chance to use your lasers and camp but good because the stage is flat and falco can get alot of attacks off.
Cloud Cleaver
Smash Journeyman
I'm not very comfortable on Frigate, I'll admit, but I can see where Falco has some options here. The first part is a gimp waiting to happen, unless you can out-camp your foe on the left side. Falco's crappy recovery will destroy you off the ledgeless right side if you go off, especially with horizontal or sub-horizontal knockback that forces Fire Bird use. However, a CG to spike on a recovery-stunted character can get you up a stock, if you can swing it. The second half, though,can be nice if you wait for it. Platform cover plus a nice laser game, and the dodgy little side platforms might just save your flightless tail feathers. However, the slanted ground can eat low-aimed lasers and can either help or hinder chain throws, depending on the opponent and their damage. Lastly, that flip between stages can be murder. Sakurai advised jumping beforehand, but that can still get you screwed. I don't know how to handle that, really.
Final Destination is a good Falco stage, IMO. No platforms or slanted terrain to hinder your lasers, and a long main surface for chainthrows, immediate aerial phantasms, and gatling combos. However, the main area is still short enough to make approach-stopping unnecessarily difficult against faster enemies. Recovery wise, the ledges can butcher Fire Bird, but if you have to resort to that you basically lost a stock anyway, and they're also hazardous to enemies with linear third jumps. The walls under the ledges add wall kicking as a recovery or stalling option, but I find it impractical due to the aforementioned ledges.
Final Destination is a good Falco stage, IMO. No platforms or slanted terrain to hinder your lasers, and a long main surface for chainthrows, immediate aerial phantasms, and gatling combos. However, the main area is still short enough to make approach-stopping unnecessarily difficult against faster enemies. Recovery wise, the ledges can butcher Fire Bird, but if you have to resort to that you basically lost a stock anyway, and they're also hazardous to enemies with linear third jumps. The walls under the ledges add wall kicking as a recovery or stalling option, but I find it impractical due to the aforementioned ledges.
FD I feel is a good Falco stage, but not as amazing as everyone sets it out to be. Yes Falco's chain grabbing and laser camping are slightly better on this stage, especially since FD is so big you can side b back and forth to the end of it to make it difficult for your opponent to get to you. His juggling capabilities are much worse with no platforms to help set up for more attacks, you also have less recovery options without the platform. I think this stage is dependent on how bad the chain grab and camping is to the character you're fighting. The best characters to counter pick to this stage would be ZSS, DK, Wolf, and DDD.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
this is what happens when you fight larry on battlefield, I'd recomend following suit
M@v
Subarashii!
Bf is better than FD for falco, but FD's still good.
Thankfully most people don't realize it.
Thankfully most people don't realize it.
Well, most people just ban FD against Falco, so when it happens they don't have enough experience to realize it's not his best stage.
Other than that I just want to point out that with correct angling of Firebird you can recover from anywhere under FD's lip (if the opponent doesn't edgehog you of course).
Most of the time the 60° trajectory seems to do the job.
Also on a side note, I CP'd Frigate the other day and out of the 4 minutes the match lasted only 30 secs were spent on the second part.
Gotta hate that random timer.
Other than that I just want to point out that with correct angling of Firebird you can recover from anywhere under FD's lip (if the opponent doesn't edgehog you of course).
Most of the time the 60° trajectory seems to do the job.
Also on a side note, I CP'd Frigate the other day and out of the 4 minutes the match lasted only 30 secs were spent on the second part.
Gotta hate that random timer.
I Dair You
Smash Ace
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Can we do Rainbow Cruise next? Particularly vs MK...
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
Larry picked MK vs M2K on RC yesterday and almost won. Damn it was soooooo close. xDD
I Dair You
Smash Ace
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Actual discussion instead of "Falco loses on RC go MK like DEHF" would be appreciated, even tho it's obvious Falco is severely disadvantaged.
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
If you take the nearly impossible "wait for him to make a mistake and punish" approach, you could win. I mean I find the stage very hard against MK but there are things that can be done. Remember that up to a certain point you have faster aerials than mk... so maybe it's all about getting all those little hits in and keeping that advantage.
M@v
Subarashii!
when your on the ship its fine, but mk usually planks.
Run for your damn life on the the left side and the see saw thingy.
Top part is really good for falco.
From another thread. . .
Jem.
Smash Master
I see a lot of people question why MK's take Falco to Frigate. I personally like the stage a lot vs Falco as MK.
I kind of agree with Larry too. The problem with most Falcos is that they already believe they're going to lose, so they aren't playing to win, just playing to avoid "losing"even if they still lose.
I kind of agree with Larry too. The problem with most Falcos is that they already believe they're going to lose, so they aren't playing to win, just playing to avoid "losing"even if they still lose.
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
I like frigate too, but it's Falco. How good a stage isn't as important as how comfortable you feel in it.
M@v
Subarashii!
Frigates awesome for falco. I don't cp it because theres always a better choice(BF or FD)
But I get happy when mks cp me there
But I get happy when mks cp me there
Jem.
Smash Master
Damix91
Smash Journeyman
Read his 2nd sentence again Jem.