Data Falco Matchup Thread

[unknown522]

I suppose knightpraetor meant the IC's dthrow(?)>dair chain grab, which should be SDIable when Nana hits you with the aerial. I've always DI'ed it away and slightly down buffering something out of it and it worked pretty well till now :x

oh true. My bad.

Yeah, SDI down + away with spacies

 

[knightpraetor]

oh ok thanks for the tip...just wanted to know..don';t play spacies that much, but that will be useful

 

[Linkownz]

oh ok thanks for the tip...just wanted to know..don';t play spacies that much, but that will be useful

lmfao kp I expected you to know that.

 

[knightpraetor]

hey no smack talk

i want to point out I smash DIed out 5 times during the first 2-3 matches of vs ICs without ever having played the matchup......I just wanted to know whether optimal DI was away or away and down or away and up and jump

 

[Linkownz]

hey no smack talk

i want to point out I smash DIed out 5 times during the first 2-3 matches of vs ICs without ever having played the matchup......I just wanted to know whether optimal DI was away or away and down or away and up and jump

I feel like that depends on the percent. And optimal really depends on the opponent, right? Like, DI the same way every time can't be good..

 

[Xilo Pryce]

I have to say, great guide, but do I have to read the word **** over and over again? It is a guide,I want to read it, but using that word so much makes me want to stop

Just a comment, thanks for your help

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'll try to keep my future updates cleaner. Thanks for the feedback. =)

 

[Lanceinthepants]

Get ***** pp

 

[Mogwai]

I have to say, great guide, but do I have to read the word **** over and over again? It is a guide,I want to read it, but using that word so much makes me want to stop

Just a comment, thanks for your help

sorry about that, I was a lot less conscious of my word choice back when I was still contributing to this thread. I'll go back and fix my contributions to be less offensive when I have the time to.

 

[mers]

sorry about that, I was a lot less conscious of my word choice back when I was still contributing to this thread. I'll go back and fix my contributions to be less offensive when I have the time to.

I just want to point out how wonderfully reasonable and mature this response is. Smashers get so defensive about this issue, but Mogwai just handled it beautifully.

Take note, y'all.

 

[Xilo Pryce]

I agree, both of you were very accepting of my feedback, where I feel many people would just tell me to be less sensitive to something that I have a hard time dealing with in the smash community.

Thank you both

 

[knightpraetor]

trying to learn some falco so i had a random question..is laser + frame advantage on shield or not? is laser right on top of a shield into shine safe until the shine on fox's shield or can he shine out between the laser and the shine?

 

[Mogwai]

finally got around to editing my contributions to be free of saying gay/**** in the OP.

 

[Dr Peepee]

trying to learn some falco so i had a random question..is laser + frame advantage on shield or not? is laser right on top of a shield into shine safe until the shine on fox's shield or can he shine out between the laser and the shine?

Not really, but it kind of depends on how low the laser connects whether Falco can safely get the shine off before Fox in the situation you're describing. Also, lasers becoming stale may make this even harder.

I have no concrete numbers for you, but this is how I feel based on experience.

 

[knightpraetor]

so pp do you not attempt overlap with lasers during your play on fox? i know people do that against marth all the time..but maybe it's just not a vs fox thing?

 

[Dr Peepee]

so pp do you not attempt overlap with lasers during your play on fox? i know people do that against marth all the time..but maybe it's just not a vs fox thing?

what do you mean "overlap?"

 

[Xilo Pryce]

finally got around to editing my contributions to be free of saying gay/**** in the OP.

Again, thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[unknown522]

Laser is not plus on shield. Dunno the exact number (pretty sure it's -3) but you can shine fox before he shines oos.

You'll also beat all rolls (assuming you're frame perfect), with the exception of jiggs

 

[knightpraetor]

woo scary...good to know...on the rare times when i pull out falco i will try to abuse this more..i'm not a falco main but it's definitely noticeable that the better falcos i play all do this while the worse ones do not...except for pp..i actually don't know what he does...

i'm guessing it's something like "whatever he wants"

 

[Strong Badam]

Laser is not plus on shield. Dunno the exact number (pretty sure it's -3) but you can shine fox before he shines oos.

You'll also beat all rolls (assuming you're frame perfect), with the exception of jiggs

only back roll IIRC

 

[Dr Peepee]

woo scary...good to know...on the rare times when i pull out falco i will try to abuse this more..i'm not a falco main but it's definitely noticeable that the better falcos i play all do this while the worse ones do not...except for pp..i actually don't know what he does...

i'm guessing it's something like "whatever he wants"

You talkin about the laser covering the roll thing? I do that more now =)

If not, please explain and I'll try to help with that.

 

[S l o X]

what are samus' biggest weaknesses and how do i exploit them with this op character?

 

[Dr Peepee]

what are samus' biggest weaknesses and how do i exploit them with this op character?

Samus sucks in the air, doesn't really have a shield grab/strong OOS option, and has low mobility overall.

Lasers stop her already bad mobility.

Shining/throwing Samus in the air is great even if you can't get a combo because she doesn't have much priority in the air and can't move through it quickly. Abuse Uptilt to wreck her from below. Bair sometimes to keep her honest.

When you're on the ground, keep lasers out and then just space on Samus' shield and grab it once in a while. You don't really need shines unless you hit confirm vs Samus because her up-B OOS beats your shine clean. She can only move backward and that is when you can take stage and try to hit her if you get a solid read.

Dair is the only approach you really need vs Samus because it's better for shield poking usually iirc and Samus can't CC it like she loves to do.

 

[S l o X]

Thanks a lot PP.


*heads back to the lab*

 

[Mogwai]

spaced dair -> dtilt is pretty good vs. samus IMO.

 

[It's me Q]

Feel free to link if this is posted somewhere, how do I shine>instant arial?

 

[Mogwai]

Feel free to link if this is posted somewhere, how do I shine>instant arial?

you shine, jump and aerial as fast as possible?

if you're looking for button inputs, afaik most people do it with down B -> up on control stick -> c stick aerial, but it's a preference thing.

 

[FrenchToasts]

i need help against ice climbers....

 

[It's me Q]

you shine, jump and aerial as fast as possible?

if you're looking for button inputs, afaik most people do it with down B -> up on control stick -> c stick aerial, but it's a preference thing.

I mean whilst in the air, just realized wrong thread

 

[ruhtraeel]

So after my vs Peach thread, the time finally came to play the Peach main in my city.

Critique plz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGgfNWFPm4&feature=g-all-u

 

[Lech Walesa]

I can't wait for the Dr. Mario match-up. My least favorite match-up.

 

[v4extreme]

Having trouble sdi'ing fox's uair, halp?

As I understand it you just have to smash your sticks to one side when the first hit hits. Is that right, and if not does anyone have any tips on what's likely messing me up?

 

[MOJoe]

So after my vs Peach thread, the time finally came to play the Peach main in my city.

Critique plz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGgfNWFPm4&feature=g-all-u

I'm not too good, so don't take all of my advice as seriously as you can take it. Try it out definitely, but I can't promise that all of it's good.
-You're spacing always starts off well each match. You're threatening with bairs and lasers and keeping you distance. You slowly lose this mindset though and you get drawn towards the edge... Against Peach? Worst idea ever. It's gimp city. Just always keep control of the stage (in this and most other MU's w/ Falco, that means keeping the middle of the map.) When you lost control, you started getting d-smashed. Sucks, right? My best friend mains Peach... Make sure you're almost never teching in place because a Peach can often d-smash off of that tech chase. That should help you get out of the d-smash in which case, you can start to fight back for stage control.
-Moveset/choice is about average in this set. MOARRRR U-tilt. Especially after a dair. It'll allow for better comboing. The shine knocks Peach very high. When you do shine though, a good chunk of the time, you were using an up air. Sometimes that's not bad, but there were definitely times where you could have used a dair a continued a combo or at least put Peach in a worse position.
-Positives:Laser game, spacing at times and patience.
-Sorry I can't help any more right now. Maybe after I get home from work, I can give this another look.

 

[Fox128]

So after my vs Peach thread, the time finally came to play the Peach main in my city.

Critique plz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGgfNWFPm4&feature=g-all-u

Aight (just watched the first two matches, but I think I already have kind of an idea on what you might want to improve on)
-Don't ever dashattack when your opponents have low% (this isn't Peach specific). Even if they don't sheild/CC it, you won't be able to combo them, Peach will just nair you right back while you're still in lag.
-DD more (in between lasering, and when your opponents comes down from above)! Sometimes you seem to be quite static and your approaches are quite easy to read honestly. DD in itself will already help a lot here
-Comboing Peach:
--Use more utilts eg after hitting with dair in the first place
--If you shine them, the shine uair you do is nice sometimes, but you can get more out of it by just fhing, not using your dj, not ffing and dj right after the uair hits to get in another aerial
--But don't forget to also use dair sometimes. At mid/high% it can combo into utilts etc. (you'll get a feeling for it/the %s it works when doing it more)
-->Especially if you shine them and they fly above a platform use dair! Dair will combo into anything here until certain%, including those feared Shine to top-out Shinekills.
-Slow a bit down when you grab the ledge. You keep using those ledgehop doublelasers everytime and getting punished for it (and it IS highly punishable). Take your time if you have to and think of other (saver) options to regain control, there are many of them.
-Use more bair in general. I see you overuse dair a bit too much, even in situations where your back's to Peach (basically in perfect situations to use space-baired)
-Killing Peach at high%:
--When they dashattack into your sheild, don't forget you always have the option to upSmash OOS. A quick OOS Shinebair can work wonders sometimes too, as it will mess with their DI. I saw you sheildgrabbing Peach's DA once at high%, even a dair OOS is a better option since it will most likely combo them (sometimes to death with a simple dairspike or uair follow-up)
--fSmash: common setups for this except for baits are lasers to fSmash and jab to fSmash
--dtilt: dtilt is really underrated. You can CC to dtilt or you can sometimes sheildstab them, you can even bait them to tilt their sheild upwards sometimes (by empty landing to dtilt for example)
--However, don't force any of these too much. If the situation occurs, take it. If it doesn't, no problem: Just keep your calm and play your game and eventually you will just rack up enough damage to kill them with just savely spaced bairs.

 

[SSS]

teach me dat samus matchup

 

[KingDozie]

i need help in the doc matchup.

 

[Mogwai]

bair more

 

[Fox128]

i need help in the doc matchup.

What I see many people do, is force combos, that aren't actually combos and so you will whiff or Doc will dodge/intercept. So a key against characters like this (higher weight/slow or mediocre falling speed) is to get a feeling for when they can break out of combos and bate their reaction (like a buffered double jump or a nair etc. after hitstun wears off).

Also Doc has a really good WD game and a very strong punish game against Falco, so you want to laser more and not approach in a predictable/punishable way (like always).
You will be able to get many grabs, but grabs won't actually do anything to Doc, so you want to go for something else instead (shine for example being better, without real disadvantages). Ofc you will still grab him a lot... if you happen to, I'd probably still go with uthrow (you can get him them if their DI is off or you can just enjoy your positional adventage after it), or dthrow to techchase/read most of the time.
Dair combos really well like always, and shine too: you can almost always still follow-up after it but you have to use higher doublejumps.

Pills can be destroyed by any aerial (or ground attack). So you don't have to sheild them always. And I'd actually recommend destroying them, because one tends to keep more momentum dealing with them this way.

On stages with low ceilings (escpecially YS), go for shine to shine-on-top kills, many people seem to forget about that one.

If played correctly, Falco can make Doc look pretty free...

 

[KingDozie]

What I see many people do, is force combos, that aren't actually combos and so you will whiff or Doc will dodge/intercept. So a key against characters like this (higher weight/slow or mediocre falling speed) is to get a feeling for when they can break out of combos and bate their reaction (like a buffered double jump or a nair etc. after hitstun wears off).

Also Doc has a really good WD game and a very strong punish game against Falco, so you want to laser more and not approach in a predictable/punishable way (like always).
You will be able to get many grabs, but grabs won't actually do anything to Doc, so you want to go for something else instead (shine for example being better, without real disadvantages). Ofc you will still grab him a lot... if you happen to, I'd probably still go with uthrow (you can get him them if their DI is off or you can just enjoy your positional adventage after it), or dthrow to techchase/read most of the time.
Dair combos really well like always, and shine too: you can almost always still follow-up after it but you have to use higher doublejumps.

Pills can be destroyed by any aerial (or ground attack). So you don't have to sheild them always. And I'd actually recommend destroying them, because one tends to keep more momentum dealing with them this way.

On stages with low ceilings (escpecially YS), go for shine to shine-on-top kills, many people seem to forget about that one.

If played correctly, Falco can make Doc look pretty free...

Thanks man

 

[mas_torque]

How should I strike/ban/cp vs Peach? I lost to the same Peach twice at a tourney yesterday, and even he said that I was outplaying him but I got impatient at times which I attribute to my lack of tourney experience (only the 2nd I've entered). I want to be able to stomp him next time we play lol. I really didn't know what stages would be beneficial. I always struck DL and FD but I'm not 100% on those decisions. His CG was pretty on point so FD seemed like a reasonable strike along with DL as he lives longer there too. I'm not a fan of BF in general although it gives me room. I felt pretty comfortable on FoD aside from when I'd stupidly find myself under low platforms and get dsmashed as I'd camp the top platform and initiate by coming down on him when he was floating. My punish game on floaties is pretty good especially on smaller stages, but I don't know how to balance it with needing space to laser and force mistakes.