X1-12
Smash Champion
Yeah its possible I seem to remember, iirc if you shine-grab perfectly they only have like a 1 or 2 frame window for their nair (if they buffer jump), if you are slower on the shinegrab then they have longer though
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Data Falco Matchup Thread
- Thread starter FalcoMatchups
- Start date
unknown522
Some guy
Once you get grabbed, sheik has a reasonable amount of time to react to all of your options. You pretty much have to hope that they miss, or decide to try and do something fancy.
To avoid this, you have to actually avoid getting grabbed altogether. For example, when I play vs Kirbykaze sometimes, when I win, I get grabbed probably only twice in a match (excluding re-grabs after the initial grab). (Unless he's playing bad, then it will be more than 2).
My falco amazing, but this is most definitely my best matchup with him (and dittos I guess).
If she tries to space n-air on you, you can CC on it and shine/grab/d-tilt her and try to follow it up (Also, DD -> grab or pivot f-smash is good too when she's in the air). You can also easily u-tilt through it. Her aerial mobility sucks, so you should have the advantage when she is in the air. You can also shoot a laser to stop her in the air, then attack her while she's still in the air. Same vs her f-tilts. Her f-air though, you will have to try to avoid/shield them, then WD back and try to gain control with lasers. Don't laser when she is close though, because she can PS -> grab, or possibly dash attack/boost grab before you shoot. Also, try to avoid attacking from above/FHing as much as possible. Her u-tilt/u-air is a pain in the *** to contest, and even if you trade, it's usually bad for you. Stay low to the ground as much as possible, or attack from platforms, if you need to attack from above.
Also, try to shield pressure from behind, and also use double-shines to counter her n-air OoS. Another huge pain vs sheik, is that it's really easy for her to DI your d-air to avoid shines at low percents. When she's above 20%, then when you hit the d-air, then try to run in, then shine if she looks too far away from you.
IMO on this matchup, shield play is important when you are close to sheik. She mostly wants to try to outspace you, but if you get in close enough, you can stuff most of her moves with d-air and also possible shine OoS on her tilts as long as they're not max ranged.
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
I meant you. I didn't even know there was a smasher named Mow haha. I was shortening your name but I failed lol.what the ****? Mow isn't related to this thread, I am ****it!
But great thread by you and PP. Like **** but delicious.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Peepee, saw the CEO10 results, you'll get that balloon next time <3.
Yeah I will. =)
I'll edit in a response to this other stuff later.
I'll edit in a response to this other stuff later.
Jartravious
Smash Journeyman
What character is next to talk about? I suggest Luigi.
My vids are all up on Phanna's channel already. It's called dphanna or something.
Lol I should update some of this.
Lol I should update some of this.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Hungrybox seems to get better EVERY tournament.
unknown522
Some guy
PP had it.
Next time you'll get 'em.
Next time you'll get 'em.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
ya.
Also, more about sheik:
sheik's nair out of sheild is (imo) both a gift and a curse. At low percents, its really not that bad at all. You can often (even accidentally) CC it by naturally holding down after your fast fall. And then she's in the air above you and she sucks up there gg.
also, its often very predictable when they will go for the nair, which makes it really easy to bait. sh nair->shine [sheiks will almost always try to nair oos after the first shine]. you can WD back out of shine, or empty jump+DI away to bait the nair, and again **** her for it.
Nair becomes a bgger problem when you're at percents where it knocks you down. in this case, its important to not miss the tech. Either tech in place or tech away and the situation is reset to neutral.
Lots of falcos have trouble with nair OOS vs sheik but its good to understand that it really only stops your sheild pressure but she can almost never ever follow it up directly and once you realize the things you can do to deal with nair its not so bad.
dont get grabbed tho lol
edit: one last thing i forgot to mention. get good at recognizing when dair->shine wont link. Because of sheiks body contortions or good (lucky) SDI on the dair, a lot of time, shine will flat out miss at low percents and get you grab killed. Learned to reactively dair->dtilt/turnaround uptilt instead when you see this happen which can lead into combos as well.
X1-12
Smash Champion
with your last point i'm pretty sure you can just walk a small amount before shining, or jump when you are closer to her so you don't overstretch with the dair, meaning she's too far away
you can also spot dodge -> **** of her tilts, cept like utilt sometimes. however beware of jab, since yu can't spot dodge and still have frame advantage.
so if you notice that a sheik likes to jab and then tilt after an aerial on your sheild. You can easily spotdodge and reap a free anything.
this works on sheik specifically, cuz alot of sheiks throw out way too many tilts unnecessarily. This prolly won't work too well vs top players since they should catch on quickly or atleast not be so predictable with their tilts.
also, sheik's nair oos doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all. Most good characters have good ways to get out of sheild pressure that isn't done right. Nair oos will be ALOT more risky for sheik if you mix in doubleshines, late aerials, and early aerials while DIing away
so if you notice that a sheik likes to jab and then tilt after an aerial on your sheild. You can easily spotdodge and reap a free anything.
this works on sheik specifically, cuz alot of sheiks throw out way too many tilts unnecessarily. This prolly won't work too well vs top players since they should catch on quickly or atleast not be so predictable with their tilts.
also, sheik's nair oos doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all. Most good characters have good ways to get out of sheild pressure that isn't done right. Nair oos will be ALOT more risky for sheik if you mix in doubleshines, late aerials, and early aerials while DIing away
JPOBS
Smash Hero
ya nair oos is no biggie
you can also just shine to full jump dair
you can also just shine to full jump dair
thats such an unnecessary commitment and would only be tailored to nair oos specifically.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
yea thats what i mean. sheiks get hella predictable with nair oos
deathbygoten
Smash Cadet
cant wait for more match up
unknown522
Some guy
yeah. Or you can link d-air -> d-air -> shine. So gay, lol.
Also, what shiz does a lot, is just run then SH/JC shine to hit them, when they are noticeably too far away.
Also, WD OoS is much more of a pain than when she does n-air OoS. (lucky not that many do it often)
yea, marths and sheiks wd oos is really annoying. Marth's do it alot more so it's kind of easy to bait that sometimes
JPOBS
Smash Hero
yea, sheiks still think nair oos is the business so hopefully they stick to that cuz wd oos is really gay and hard to punish with anything but laser
if you predict it, you can chase it with an aerial the same way you can a roll.
i.e:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYxAKPZyw4#t=1m29s
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
haha only if they wd back. i was playing a marth the other day - pretty solid player, actually - and when he was close to the ledge with his back to it, i would laser his shield and then fsmash and he WD'd into it like five times. it was pretty lol.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
marths who are real ballers wd oos forward right throguh your pressure and pivot grab/fsmash/dtilt
only reall ballas tho
only reall ballas tho
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
lol JPOBS. Only reall ballas, heh
Sion
Island of Horizon
ah, thanks for the advice, macman and unknown. i've also tried to bait nair oos with run up shield (not in grab range), then once i see the sh nair of full hop nair, i laser to anything.
i've improved the falco/sheik matchup a bit, but i'm still a little sketchy on edgeguarding. whenever i have a sheik off the edge, i used to go dsmash them after a laggy upb, but ever since sheiks started double sticking that, i'm not really sure how i should go about hitting them. i usually try things like shine bair, fsmash, dtilt etc so i was wondering if there were any better options that i didn't know about.
i've improved the falco/sheik matchup a bit, but i'm still a little sketchy on edgeguarding. whenever i have a sheik off the edge, i used to go dsmash them after a laggy upb, but ever since sheiks started double sticking that, i'm not really sure how i should go about hitting them. i usually try things like shine bair, fsmash, dtilt etc so i was wondering if there were any better options that i didn't know about.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
sounds pretty good. basically the best thing to do is knock them off stage and grab ledge again until they're at high enough percent that an fsmash or dtilt or whatever else you have time to land will kill them outright, which it sounds like you're doing.
unknown522
Some guy
those are all good. If you d-smash her and she techs, you will get out of lag first, so you can keep doing it until they fail.
You can also d-air them off and then try to combo it.
I personally like to f-smash or b-air her the most though.
Freestylin
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 86
i definitely need help with the sheik match-up same as the ganondorf match-up and samus match-up, xD hope you guys want to post it some day.
-Freestylin
-Freestylin
i sorta want to post more stuff, but I also have been very lazy about all things smash related recently...
maybe after I move into my new place this weekend...
maybe after I move into my new place this weekend...
Fernandez
Smash Journeyman
Nice thread.
Could some pro write some vs peach stuff?
Could some pro write some vs peach stuff?
I'll hopefully be able to write about Peach after Apex lol.
I do need to write another matchup though.
I do need to write another matchup though.
played smash for the first time in like, 3 weeks tonight... maybe when I get my **** together for playing the game I'll start writing more matchups.
No! Season 1 starts July 13!
and I'm starting a week back on season 1 because of a vacation 
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh, oh well, guess I'll just have to rofl stomp my way through low elo again....
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh, oh well, guess I'll just have to rofl stomp my way through low elo again....
sleak-
Smash Journeyman
quick question: if a marth is chaining grabbing you , when, how ,where, can i shine out of it?
and another question: if marth is uptilting you near the ledge and you DI behind him he will do the down air but if you DI away you get stuck in the uptiltts ????? what should i do?
and another question: if marth is uptilting you near the ledge and you DI behind him he will do the down air but if you DI away you get stuck in the uptiltts ????? what should i do?
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
It's called "combo cancel": L + R + A + Start
Lol I dunno, Marth's Dair can be meteor cancelled in PAL, too good =D
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
you can shine out around 25% if he's bad and doesn't do something to avoid it (utilt, pivot, etc).
if you're getting utilted near the stage, just take the percent and then try to DI whatever followup as best you can. You might live. you definitely wont survive a dair off the ledge.
G.I._JOE
Smash Journeyman
yea smash DI those utilts!
sleak-
Smash Journeyman
i know most falcos dont worry about it, but what are some good tips on how to power shield lazers?
Sion
Island of Horizon
press L or R really hard right before the laser hits you. not sure what else to say about it 8|