Falco Matchup #16: Ike

[Ussi]

Yall should reflector > ledge grab > ledge drop > bair while invincible or something..




Or yall could SDI aether with the anti-planking trick.. its legit but no one does it

 

[Bloodcross]

No one does it because, well...

wouldn't Falco just die? Or does the dair + aether clash?

 

[PersonallyIPreferDair]

If Ike uses aether to recover and he's close to the ledge, Falco can shield di down and spike him.

There's a video on youtube with this, but I can't link it since I'm on my wii.

Edit; Oh, looks like Ussi posted this before.
@Bloodcross: I'm not sure if aether clinks with anything, it's never used onstage. Although, the dair is a guarenteed hit.

 

[Bloodcross]

Yeah but we fall to our death.

 

[Ussi]

Don't buffer a fast fall

Anyways, its gonna be hard to set yourself up at the ledge. Reverse aether beats it.. Aether is transcendant :x

Plus there is spacing...

Just ledge grab > bair while invincible

 

[Bloodcross]

yeah man...

 

[DJ Arcatek]

.... So how about that Fsmash killing us at 40% ?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Unless Ike is pretty committed to trying to camp the ledge for a full 8 minutes, I don't see the reason to really risk yourself trying to beat him out of trying. Ike's stuck on the ledge is a good enough position for Falco anyway and Falco can keep ike there. If you are losing/short on time, you don't have much of a choice.

His jabs are also annoying bc you can't jab cancel

Falco should be winning the jab war. It's just that Ike gets better results for landing a jab. Falco has longer range and will outspace Ike unless Falco jabs outside of his range. In the result of a clank, Falco's is faster too to beat out Ike's jab.

And jab1 cancel isn't all that bad in this match-up either. If Ike mashes jabs out of jab cancels, you can punish him for doing that. Jab1 puts Ike in enough stun/landing lag that he cannot get his jab out quickly enough before we can put up shield and powershield it. Honestly, jab1 to shield for a frame or two for that powershield into grab works great for a lot of characters trying to jab their way out of jab cancels.

 

[smashkng]

Ike's Usmash works wonders for hitting Falco through his side b and kills at like 90% if Ike hits with the back of it. Ike is very good at punishing Falco offstage and Falco jumping offstage to try to gimp Ike is way too risky for him most of the time. Beware of Ike's aerials they have really long range with a lot of kill power and unlike Ike Falco doesn't have a sword. Falco's jab may outrange Ike's but if it does then not by much and Ike's jab 2 can really surprise people with its surprisingly long range. I have yet to play a Falco who can convince me that this matchup is worse than slight advantage for Falco at best for Falco. MK is a much, much worse MU for Ike than Falco is IMO.

 

[PersonallyIPreferDair]

.... So how about that Fsmash killing us at 40% ?

How about the fact that you should never get with that unless Ike gets the best read ever?

 

[DJ Arcatek]

How about the fact that you should never get with that unless Ike gets the best read ever?

I'm aware. Just felt like pointing that out.

 

[PersonallyIPreferDair]

I'm aware. Just felt like pointing that out.

Sorry if that came off as rude, I just don't know why you would bring that up. And I believe it actually kills at 50%, since di and momentum canceling work pretty well. Unless you're at the edge of Smashville, at the center though you won't get killed at 40%.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Phantasm on stage -> Get F-Smashed - Die.
Rage quit.

 

[Ussi]

Ike can't plank. It is programmed ike can't grab the ledge with aether after 7 ledge grabs in a row ._.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

Sorry if that came off as rude, I just don't know why you would bring that up. And I believe it actually kills at 50%, since di and momentum canceling work pretty well. Unless you're at the edge of Smashville, at the center though you won't get killed at 40%.

What the hell....


WHO ARE YOU, ANYWAY? Stop trolling.

 

[Ussi]

From the middle it depends on what part of fsmash you get hit at.

Tip = lol ftilt %
Middle = 40% with DI
Hilt = 50% with DI

Hilt is a notorious hitbox for Ike's fsmash cause it happens when you are close to Ike.. And its 1 out of 2 moves where Ike's hilt has a different hitbox than the middle (other being dtilt, which is lolwut stronger than ftilt)

2ndly, if you are getting fsmash read... It might get charged which lessens the % significantly

 

[StarFruit]

Most of you guys really understand that Ike is a big deal. No matter how precise you are...you will mess up eventually and get punIshed. One bad dive...one too many lasers is all it takes. Especially with ikes pressure...mistakes are forced out of us easier. It doesn't matter if falco gets more jab, one jab lock and you could be at killing or gimping percent. One throw dash attack of the edge can be fatal. With Ike...a lucky guess isn't percent...it's a stock. Ike can sit there and tank forever and kill falco in a few hits. Even when you get to killIng percent...you still will have a slim chance for a hit. Gimping is one of the best solutions which isn't all that reliable. It's also hard to edgeguard Ike with falco. His up b is so ridiculous and easily gimps falco at low percents. Ike is patient too and will wait for your error. I'd give this matchup 55-45 for falco but 65-35 against human error.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's an exaggeration. He hits hard, but he doesn't insta-stock you without you making multiple mistakes.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This match-up seems pretty thoroughly extracted by now.

Lasers shut down Ike's ability to space with aerials. So he has to approach. Jab is the forefront of his attacks at getting Falco into a juggling position, but Falco can match Ike in this or out range him. Both can keep the other juggled fairly well. Ike lives longer and hits harder, but has difficulty at landing KO move.
Overall: Falco's advantage no matter how you look at it being +1 or +2 for Falco.

I think it's time to move on, but I suppose no one has any Luigi experience.

 

[-DR3W-]

My thoughts exactly.

I just realized, we forgot all about stages for every discussion.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Get falco off of flat stages like PS1/PS2/FD/BF/SV, and you have better success. I really think that's all the stage discussion you need. Most stage lists favor Falco's first match anyway. Strike off the one or two bad stages like Lylat/YI and your left with stages Falco can play on easily enough.

Subsequent matches have too many choices to choose from to worry about. Ike could easily send you to YI/Lylat/Brinstar/RC and many other choices. All having different styles of game play. It would take a ton of time to get all sorts of discussion on every stage, and honestly, we aren't active enough character board to make that kind of commitment. It's better to get an overview of the match-up in general, then rely upon your experience with stages to get through counterpicks.

The stage discussion that's probably important are characters with specific stages where they wreck us on, and we want to know what stage it is so we can ban it. Falco was notorious on JJ when it was commonly legal, so every match discussion with him would say to ban JJ. Wario on Brinstar; MK on RC are other common examples. To my knowledge, Ike doesn't have any **** stages against Falco, so it's not that important.

 

[M@v]

Dont go to delfino vs ike. And try to avoid places with walls because he has a wall infinite and you dont. Bf is probably his best neutral, but we are good there too. It'd be power stage vs power stage.

If your on a stage with walkoffs stay away from them, because if ike grabs you, your dead from a bthrow to a dash attack.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

On five strike, ban BF and YI. On seven strike, I'd ban Lylat as well, but I suppose you could strike Castle Siege.

 

[senato]

Hi

I think this Mu is 55:45 for Falco.
Falco can CG Ike and releases him = free 45% about and maybe a kill on certain stage ( definitely Lylat or DF, juste CG to dair then Footsool/Bair, and edgehopping him ).
Falco's Jabs is very effective on Ike: with the 3rd jab you can release Bdown or Ftilt, it works 80% of time cause Ike's landing lag.

But Ike punishes Falco easily: if Bside is predictable, it's free Jab to Grab or Usmash for Ike...
Ike's jab cancel is effective too: he can grab you and F/Bthrow to dash attack (it's a true combo).
The best advantage of Ike in this MU is his attacks' Knockback and their range. Falco can kill a good Ike about 110%-120%; but Ike can you earlier with his Fair, Bair, Filt, etc... about 90%.
But Falco balances this advantage with his laser game.

Later, I'll speak about stages and advantages . See ya!