Falco Discussion Thread

I have successfully taught Twitch the usefulness of upsmash.

I tech chase upsmash'd on a platform to Uair kill(on Fox). That is another thing you can use upsmash for Falco boards.

 

That was just an example lol.

But simple is legit anyway. =)

 

why do you ask

 

A couple things

I'm going to write about more things that I've been thinking about.

Characters teach people different things. This is because they have a solid strategy they're biased towards such as Falcon tech chasing or Marth spacing or grabbing or spacies shield pressuring. This is a great reason to not only hone these types of character specific skills but also apply them to your main(assuming one main for the purpose of discussion).

For example, I really like dash dancing as a mechanic in Melee and think I understand it very well(I should write about that sometime but don't think it goes in this post haha), but it's not something that should come naturally to one who plays as Falco(if they learn on their own, anyway....ahhh another topic!). No, my understanding of the dash dancing mechanic came to me through my prolific use of Fox, Marth, and Falcon. These characters all have exceptional dash dance games and the effectiveness via variability of such movement tricks was very fun and interesting to me.

*what do I mean by "effectiveness via variability?" Well, because those characters are so fast/have long dash lengths/can do many powerful actions out of a dash or pivot(Fox Nair, Falcon Bair wall or retreating, Marth pivot grab), they have more options using this mechanic available to them. Now for some players this mechanic need not be explored too far because they can make one or two tricks they know work and build off of that, but for those wanting a competitive edge I strongly encourage a thorough exploration of what exactly you can do out of a dash dance(pivot Fsmashing is pretty cool but incredibly underused these days), how much you can alter it(see: Mango's stupid dash dance video lol), and how it affects your opponent in varying circumstances(under pressure vs neutral position, for example), among other things.

By truly understanding this one facet of your character and being able to manipulate it at will to any circumstance you are in, you should further your understanding of your character and be able to work it together with all of your pre-existing concepts about Melee(edgeguarding for example, something you may not normally associate with dash dancing, could certainly be influenced by how your dash dancing is done vs an opponent who is onstage and not just on the edge or trying to recover).

Now, when you go and apply such a concept from a character who is probably "better" at the trait(in this case DD'ing) to your main(in my case Falco), it takes some readjusting because your character may be worse at it, or at least apply it differently. I was frustrated with Falco(or my Falco anyway) for a time because I wanted him to be fast enough to punish openings I made with a dash dance the same way I could with, say, Fox, from the same spacing. Once I got over my initial frustration I began to look at how Falco scared people and how dash dancing works WITH Falco in his own way, much like how each dash dance-oriented character still had their own unique application of the mechanic. Lasers, not speed or pressure alone, were what locked my opponent down when on the ground(for simplicity's sake I'll just be referencing the ground game). So my dash dancing game has to WORK WITH MY LASER GAME in order to be successful. This seems somewhat straightforward but taking into account people's reactions when I am at certain laser spacings and all of the other conditioning on my other moves I must do it is somewhat tricky to work in DD'ing without wasting opportunities or getting hit anyway(as if I straight up approached instead of only feigned my approach with DD'ing). I encourage anyone who is curious to watch my set vs Armada at Pound 5. I get him to put up his shield and sometimes dash dance in front of him. Sometimes I try to do it and get Nair'd OOS because Armada was expecting a regular approach(or he saw my bad spacing and my conditioning wasn't good enough I suppose haha) and sometimes he stays there because he is afraid and my conditioning was successful.


If anyone wishes to discuss other mechanics of other characters and how it has translated to their own mains(or even if they wish to discuss DD'ing!) then I would be very interested in hearing such stories. =)





I also want to talk about some thoughts I had regarding approaching I thought of a while back.


I always kind of laughed with the old school players who I would see/hear say something about Fox's Nair and how everyone new just wanted to use that move and nothing else, especially to approach. I thought on my own Fox play one day and realized I was just as guilty as all of the "newer" Foxes of playing very Nair-happy. I wasn't really sure what to do about it though because there didn't seem to be many other good approaches besides dash attack(only because LoZR did that a lot did I decide it was good) and running shine sorta as a mixup once in a while.

I got kind of lucky in how I figured this out though(as it seems to happen with most of my revelations haha). I was watching that good ol FC3 crew battle and all its hype, when I saw some of the Foxes going in to play. I had that Nair comment stuck in my mind so I wanted to see what old school thought solid Fox play was.

There were no Nairs. At all.

They were doing like FH Bair and dash attack and upsmash approaches. Otherwise they'd shoot a single laser or two. I thought this was funny because it was exactly what Mow says good Fox play should be like, but also because it didn't seem like it should work to me. It's not like these Fox players got destroyed or anything. They held their own, too.

*For those that hate on the old metagame, while I don't have that theory fleshed out yet, I can say that there is great merit in it still because of the emphasis of smarts if nothing else....sorry for the shoddy backing but I want to save my thoughts of the old metagame for another day haha*

So, rather than just being a regular copycat and saying "okay I'll just add these tricks to my game," I decided to think for a little about why these moves worked as I watched the Foxes play. It didn't take too long either before I made another, somewhat embarrassingly obvious discovery: any move in the game can be used to approach if you get the correct read/conditioning.

*for the skeptics, this at least allows you to open up your mind to the possibility of approaches being outside whatever the "staple" approach options are that can still be effective. hitting with Marth's uptilt, a great combo starter, would be a pretty cool thing to approach with, huh?*

Bair is still somewhat used today, but not really as an approach so much as a wall/spacer. Dash attack and Upsmash use Fox's insane running speed combined with the fact that they jut out in front of him(and in upsmash's case, above him as well).

I played around with Fox's approaches that day or next vs Twitch and found I really could approach with whatever I wanted to if I got the correct read/conditioning. It makes Melee come alive for me when I'm really considering it and knowing how many options I have at my disposal. Combining movement(a key ingredient in approaches and conditioning that I never considered on its own until I heard 2D fighting players say that it was a huge part of Melee haha XD pretty embarrassing once again) with this idea allows for even more unique and sometimes situational approaches that make Melee so deep.

What a good effin game. <3


Anyone have any jank approaches they want to share? I'd be very interested in hearing about those or maybe jank defensive ideas(haven't thought of those yet tbh it just came to me haha). =)

 

Hmmm yeah it would play on visual cues like seeing Fox's back(at times meaning he is scared and running to them) and also could cause others to want to take the stage. I know that if you WD back you can even SH with extra backward momentum right away so you could get in on things like Puff or Peach that go about it slower or like to get off the ground to take space/control it too(thinking with Bair for the moment).

I've always been afraid to give up stage personally because that's big in my game, but I suppose that would make my play that much trickier if I played for the stage often only to pretend to give it up for a greater advantage once in a while.

I guess my only caution in using this tactic is to not get carried away and let your opponent catch on to when you're doing it on purpose/obviously and you can balance it out with solid stage control play as well.

I really like the idea though and hopefully I'll play with it some soon. Thanks for sharing it! =)

Peach requires a fair amount of tech skill! Anyone who's seen Armada's silly Nairs can attest to that lol. It's good you play a spacie though, as learning someone with a tech ceiling far above the character you play can make your main's tech skill that much easier.

And LOL the KDJ(DD'ing when they're on the ground) lives on! I suggest you don't always do that and instead find ways to manipulate their tech options, even though the DD is still a good idea a decent amount of the time. Peach is fairly slow too so that makes the DD that much less threatening. Sort of related to the Fox dash forward to WD back thing, you must make sure the habits/techniques you gain from other characters come over to your character but influence them in a way that maximizes your main's strengths rather than a straight copy of the technique(which usually doesn't work or is less effective anyway). Think about more technical ways to execute OOS options you may not have been able to before, or a techy way to wall/bait approaches with FC Nairs or something of that nature. Take every bit of knowledge you can from your secondary experience and it can really help you out a ton. =)

Always good to hear more about Peach haha, I don't hear much about the character surprisingly even though Armada has done so well with her.

Nah if it works, do it. Alllllways. =p

Also I'm only posting the intelligent stuff(or dressed up stuff) I found out lol. I've made some embarrassingly nooby discoveries in my day that I'm glad I found out I didn't know on my own haha. Nothing comes to mind atm but I definitely remembering being embarrassed about a few different ideas haha.

 

LMAO @ side B thing it's so true.

Uhhhh okay I'm gonna think and see if I can remember anything.....

.......

Man LOL I really don't remember right now. XD If I somehow remember then I'll post it though I just remember the feeling right now haha sorry. =p

 

I think the Brazilians or someone did it a lot so maybe there's something to it lol. It's a great combo starter for both if you get the correct read(and no CC lol).

I've killed with so many side Bs now I just kind of shrug it off as silly but not worth being upset over lol.