Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Ahhhh, you got me!

EDIT:

In regards to Jiggs, she was really a contemporary flavor at the time but she was easier to implement than Bowser, Dedede, and Mewtwo since she shared a lot of similarities to Kirby.

But nowadays, it didn't get anything big compared to M2, Luke, or Charizard aside from Fairy-typing. Though, it was featured in Pokemon Conquest alongside those three and Pikachu as well (I think).

I don't think Jiggs is going to be cut; she and Mewtwo can round out the full party perfectly, especially if Zelda may get a new rep. based on the Trophy Quiz theory (assuming Ganondorf is coming back).

Remember False Palutena resulted in Palutena and Tiki resulted in Lucina / Robin. I'm fairly certain both franchise can hit six reps. and as the Chrom interview stated, Sakurai doesn't care too much about how many reps. a franchise gets, IIRC,

Jigglypuff was featured in Conquest along with Mewtwo. Pikachu had a smaller role than Jigglypuff surprisingly.

 

[LIQUID12A]

...Check out the official site sometime. They've revealed 36 characters so far. SSBB had 39. I'm pretty sure it'll be larger than SSBB. :d

But there HAS to be a limit. You can't go balancing around 50 bloody characters.

 

[Masonomace]

But there HAS to be a limit. You can't go balancing around 50 bloody characters.

Not to mention custom specials for every single character, that's just adding on extra work to every character let alone there being a possibility of 50+ characters. . .I keep thinking about it & I've thought about it the more content I see, but there's not way Sakurai was just starting SSB4's development in 2012, it had to of been late 2010 - early 2011. . .there's just no way. . .2 years of development for Sma4sh being on 3DS AND WiiU?!

SSB = 12
Melee more than doubled the O12's size being = 26
Brawl more than tripled the O12's roster size = 39
Sm4sh will most definitely quadruple that. Being at least = 48

Without thinking about the planned, the cuts, or the time restraints, Mewtwo as well as the whole cast Sakurai had in mind was set in stone. And from the looks of the outside factors not knowing what's inside, I don't think any sword-in-the-stone set-in-stone will be cut.
Edit:

And from the looks of the outside factors not knowing what's inside, I don't think any sword-in-the-stone set-in-stone will be cut.

Oh right, Chrom was actually considered being in development but was scrapped due to not bringing anything new to FE's table. Too much sword not enough unique quality characteristics, but then Lucina's confirmed a marth clone.

Glad I edited this & called my post out for having counter-weaknesses to it's point.

 

[AldoPKMaster]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

 

[Masonomace]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

You're a brave soul @ A AldoPKMaster , also happy 3rd post.

But don't be surprised when you're notifications blow up with quoting your post about replies about you-know-what. I'm still 65% in favor for Mewtwo's return simply because I'm prepared for his confirmation or de-confirmation.

 

[SmashBroski]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

I'm sorry you feel that way; every fanbase has its ups and downs, there are people that will listen to reason and respect your opinions, and there are those who are narrow-minded and shove their ideals down everyone's throats.

I, for one, strongly believe that Mewtwo and Jigglypuff can co-exist in SSB4; Jigglypuff as a senior member and Mewtwo a popular legend planned for each installment so far.

I understand an additional spot is often cited as competition for the two but you have to understand that a lot of the fanbase was outraged that a unique character had to be cut just for an ok side-scrolling adventure, which may explain for their behavior.

SSB4 is an ideal re-entry point for Mewtwo in the series thanks to Game Freak backing it up as an iconic Pokemon and fan-favorite, highly requested Smash character along the likes of Shulk, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Isaac. Absolute worst is that Mewtwo doesn't make it; sure I'll be upset about his exclusion once again but I'll learn to move on. I'm grateful that Sakurai has been listening to the fans as we've gotten Mega Man, Palutena, and Little Mac to show for it and adding this character back in is just another cherry on top.

Once again, welcome to Smashboards and I hope your experience with Mewtwo fans here is a more positive experience.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I want Jiggs in(it was my punching bag...)new type could mean a few new moves and some buffs.Also why do I stop getting alerts for this thread all the time?!

 

[Masonomace]

I want Jiggs in(it was my punching bag...)new type could mean a few new moves and some buffs.Also why do I stop getting alerts for this thread all the time?!

Brawl Jiggs is quite an impressive replacement punching bag for Sandbag's sake. . .:'(
But yeah. . .same here I at one point stopped watching this thread because of the lack of notifications I would barely receive from here.

Guess the solution is to stalk it relentlessly.

 

[TitanTeaTime]

Is it really so bad to want both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo to get in?

 

[Thereallucario]

Yes... YES.. kill the puff ball MAHHAHAHAHA!

I mean-

Boo! Don't get in the way of Mewtwo (or sceptile... or Zoroark... or a lot of other pokemon...)!

In all seriousness, it is clear that sakurai loves Mewtwo and his chances. If we take the idea that jiggs was one of the last added in SSBB (which may or not be true, I have no idea) then he may have had the intention of cutting the pink one a while ago. If Mewtwo had not encountered the glitch ssbb may have ben a very different game altogether. But of course that's all just speculation. for all we know we could have had them both.

But if sakurai was going to cut jiggs from the game, his last chance is to do it now. In the future this may be a big damper on more disserving characters that may not get a shot due to "tradition" which in the future of smash may need to be changed. For example (and I HATE to say it but...) Ness is the other character that in the future will encounter a major problem. Due to the mother series being cut off from future development, in smash 6+ or so we may find that ness has lost all relevancy and only is hanging around for "tradition". Mother may still be around in the future with mother 3 not being released stateside and the fangame underway (NOTE: just a fangame. I just like to think positive that Nintendo might think "AH, screw it. Make this the official ending") but ness himself is riding an old train which is only powered by his ssb fame. its kinda a sad story to think about
The same thing in a way is happening to jiggs. I mean, when was the last time that jiggs got prominently shown off in pokemon? Yes I know about the X and Y retype, but that was a pokemon that you caught in the wild that you can go the whole game without actually encountering. I did myself. And the lack of love from japan does not help. Jiggs is on a sinking ship it seams and it can only hold for so long. There is only so many remakes you can do to one character. This may change, but seriously what are the odds? Sakurai may one day have to do it, and in a way it is better to do it now befor the smash community gets overly used to the o12.

But jiggs is likely to get in again, if we have six pokemon. If not, its an even battleground.

Also @ A AldoPKMaster , don't be so confident. Mewtwo is WAY more likely then you think and jiggs is not as untouchable as many believe

Also side note for those who like mother/earthbound

Spoiler

have you seen the fangame so far? It is awesome! here, take a listen:

 

[Masonomace]

Yes... YES.. kill the puff ball MAHHAHAHAHA!

I mean-

Boo! Don't get in the way of Mewtwo (or sceptile... or Zoroark... or a lot of other pokemon...)!

In all seriousness, it is clear that sakurai loves Mewtwo and his chances. If we take the idea that jiggs was one of the last added in SSBB (which may or not be true, I have no idea) then he may have had the intention of cutting the pink one a while ago. If Mewtwo had not encountered the glitch ssbb may have ben a very different game altogether. But of course that's all just speculation. for all we know we could have had them both.

But if sakurai was going to cut jiggs from the game, his last chance is to do it now. In the future this may be a big damper on more disserving characters that may not get a shot due to "tradition" which in the future of smash may need to be changed. For example (and I HATE to say it but...) Ness is the other character that in the future will encounter a major problem. Due to the mother series being cut off from future development, in smash 6+ or so we may find that ness has lost all relevancy and only is hanging around for "tradition". Mother may still be around in the future with mother 3 not being released stateside and the fangame underway (NOTE: just a fangame. I just like to think positive that Nintendo might think "AH, screw it. Make this the official ending") but ness himself is riding an old train which is only powered by his ssb fame. its kinda a sad story to think about
The same thing in a way is happening to jiggs. I mean, when was the last time that jiggs got prominently shown off in pokemon? Yes I know about the X and Y retype, but that was a pokemon that you caught in the wild that you can go the whole game without actually encountering. I did myself. And the lack of love from japan does not help. Jiggs is on a sinking ship it seams and it can only hold for so long. There is only so many remakes you can do to one character. This may change, but seriously what are the odds? Sakurai may one day have to do it, and in a way it is better to do it now befor the smash community gets overly used to the o12.

But jiggs is likely to get in again, if we have six pokemon. If not, its an even battleground.

Also @ A AldoPKMaster , don't be so confident. Mewtwo is WAY more likely then you think and jiggs is not as untouchable as many believe.

"Or Scizor! Or Plusle x Minum!"
"Hey that's not funny! Those would be awesome pokemon fighters!"

Btw let's not forget this Crucial Source, there was words saying that disappointments / upsets will occur based on that source's truth to it. For all we know Purin & Mewtwo may NOT return & we have to be prepared for that. Despite that Sakurai apologized in advance for the fans out there for their loved characters in Super Smash Bros., there's still 19 characters in total to be announced confirmed or de-confirmed.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention about Captain Falcon's status with his long hiatus of no new games for 10+ years when you mentioned Ness being apart of the "tradition" aka O12. Ness may very well be tied in with not returning & letting down fans. Ness & Captain Falcon are kind of in the same boat but the good ole' Kyaputen Farukon returns looking manlier than ever. That could foreshadow a shedding gleam of light onto Purin & Ness. Actually Falcon is riding his only fame on the ssb train but he's basically the train driver of the ssb train. So I guess they can't be compared on the same level but they both ride the same destination.

 

[ORVO5]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

Meh, Jiggs should get cut. Sakurai himself said some won't return, and it should be Jiggs. She's not relevant anymore, if she was included, everyone's just gonna be like.. MEH. If Mewtwo was included, everyone would flip out. Mewtwo is much better for hype, much more relevant and way more badass than Jiggs. Jiggs was just comedy relief at the time, not anymore.

OUT WITH JIGGS

PS, I wouldn't mind seeing her back, but between her and Mewtwo? Pfft.

 

[AldoPKMaster]

I will be back when the whole roster is revealed

 

[ORVO5]

Please do

Either way, my point still stands. Jiggs is irrelevant compared to Mewtwo.

 

[Masonomace]

*so hyped for Page 160 in Mewtwo's Johto adventure*

So I tried looking for Sakurai's favorite pokemon. . .

No luck, I saw from some post mentioning about Sakurai's favorite being Exeguttor but that seems odd. Don't believe that, I could of sworn I saw somewhere that Jigglypuff was Sakurai's fave because it's similar properties resembling Kirby, his beloved baby. Hence that can be why Jigglypuff was so similar game-play wise to Kirby in Smash64. And still technically being similar in some ways 'till this day, just like the Falcon / Ganon treatment from melee.

Example of similarity clone treatment:
Clone of = Original design
=
as to
=

So yeah. Jigglypuff being 'clonely' closely similar to kirby can be another reason Sakurai would add onto his priorities list of putting jiggs > Mewtwo. Buuuuuut the crucial source is still at large.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

Spoiler

I AM TEMPTED TO FORCE YOU TO SHARE MY PERCEPTION OF THINGS.

But hey, an opinion is an opinion, and it was in good nature too, so can't complain.

Your argument...is logical.

Is it really so bad to want both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo to get in?

It obviously comes down to personal preference. Because, you know, the fan base is unpleasable and very few of its members can make points like that.

Not to mention custom specials for every single character, that's just adding on extra work to every character let alone there being a possibility of 50+ characters. . .I keep thinking about it & I've thought about it the more content I see, but there's not way Sakurai was just starting SSB4's development in 2012, it had to of been late 2010 - early 2011. . .there's just no way. . .2 years of development for Sma4sh being on 3DS AND WiiU?!

SSB = 12
Melee more than doubled the O12's size being = 26
Brawl more than tripled the O12's roster size = 39
Sm4sh will most definitely quadruple that. Being at least = 48

Without thinking about the planned, the cuts, or the time restraints, Mewtwo as well as the whole cast Sakurai had in mind was set in stone. And from the looks of the outside factors not knowing what's inside, I don't think any sword-in-the-stone set-in-stone will be cut.
Edit:

Oh right, Chrom was actually considered being in development but was scrapped due to not bringing anything new to FE's table. Too much sword not enough unique quality characteristics, but then Lucina's confirmed a marth clone.

Glad I edited this & called my post out for having counter-weaknesses to it's point.

You forget that for his trollish personality, Sakurai is a hard working man. Not even some arm condition that I forgot it's name will stop him.

 

[SaucyDancer]

But there HAS to be a limit. You can't go balancing around 50 bloody characters.

Im sure Sakurai could find a way. They wouldn't announce all of these characters and then only have a few more in the game. Im thinking that because they have announced to many we are going to get a heap more.

 

[Steelia]

I will be back when the whole roster is revealed

I have a feeling you'll be back sooner than that ... I'm very confident she's in. She's so easy to implement, and is apparently Sakurai's favorite (surprise surprise). Sakurai'll show Jiggs before the 3DS version launches to throw off everyone. "oh noez 5 Pokemon revealed cannot pass up Mario reps Mewtwo ded"
Master trolling at work with that man.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Im sure Sakurai could find a way. They wouldn't announce all of these characters and then only have a few more in the game. Im thinking that because they have announced to many we are going to get a heap more.

Unlike other 2D fighters, Smash is significantly harder to balance due to multiple game modes, not to mention customization nowadays and...items to equip. This is why I think anything over 45 characters is overkill.You can argue that a 2D fighter like UMVC3 has 50(48+DLC), but despite that game's questionable "balance" with things like MorriDoom and Vergil running around, never mind X-Factor, it still has a singular mode of competitive play and doesn't require as much work. With Sakurai and Nintendo themselves appealing to the For Glory crowd, too many characters is gonna be a problem. I, however, will turn a blind eye to it as long as my favorites are in.

 

[strawhatninja]

I cant wait to see Jigglypuff playable in Smash 4 just to shut the numerous Mewtwo fans up! And if Mewtwo is cut again even better. I mean seriously I would want Mewtwo in too but a lot of Mewtwo fans here and all over the social media are being annoying and desperate for Mewtwo to get in. Im sorry for those few Mewtwo fans who are actually comprehensive of Jiggs and Mewtwo's merits of getting in

Wow you really just came on to the Mewtwo thread to bash him and his fans? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but there is no reason to try to make everyone here angry at you. We all just want Mewtwo back, and if you are annoyed by Mewtwo fan why are you on here? Noboday is making you read these posts.

 

[Zx2963]

http://gamerant.com/smash-bros-wii-u-roster-size-curt-158340/

 

[woopyfrood]

SSB = 12
Melee more than doubled the O12's size being = 26
Brawl more than tripled the O12's roster size = 39
Sm4sh will most definitely quadruple that. Being at least = 48

Then the roster of SSB4 must be 52, not counting the random slot.

Melee: 12(2) + 2 = 26
Brawl: 12(3) + 3 = 39
SSB4: 12(4) + 4 = 52

#patterns

 

[Masonomace]

Then the roster of SSB4 must be 52, not counting the random slot.

Melee: 12(2) + 2 = 26
Brawl: 12(3) + 3 = 39
SSB4: 12(4) + 4 = 52

#patterns

I had a really complex set pattern in another thread including planned & the cuts in Melee with predicted cuts from Brawl's roster, but I don't wanna bother re-posting it all here.
But yeah, #patterns

 

[Thereallucario]

"Or Scizor! Or Plusle x Minum!"
"Hey that's not funny! Those would be awesome pokemon fighters!"

Btw let's not forget this Crucial Source, there was words saying that disappointments / upsets will occur based on that source's truth to it. For all we know Purin & Mewtwo may NOT return & we have to be prepared for that. Despite that Sakurai apologized in advance for the fans out there for their loved characters in Super Smash Bros., there's still 19 characters in total to be announced confirmed or de-confirmed.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention about Captain Falcon's status with his long hiatus of no new games for 10+ years when you mentioned Ness being apart of the "tradition" aka O12. Ness may very well be tied in with not returning & letting down fans. Ness & Captain Falcon are kind of in the same boat but the good ole' Kyaputen Farukon returns looking manlier than ever. That could foreshadow a shedding gleam of light onto Purin & Ness. Actually Falcon is riding his only fame on the ssb train but he's basically the train driver of the ssb train. So I guess they can't be compared on the same level but they both ride the same destination.

The point im making with ness is that his games CANNOT grow, his creator said its done. c-falcon just is having a dry spell with his games. But you do bring up a good point on that matter. If he doesn't get a new game in the future, falcon punch may die out. But that's way farther in the future then ness.

http://gamerant.com/smash-bros-wii-u-roster-size-curt-158340/

All this means in the sense of the roster is that he won't beef it up with lots of random clones or remakes. This has no real jurisdiction on the roster size. Nice obscure find though.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://gamerant.com/smash-bros-wii-u-roster-size-curt-158340/

Yes but history is just going to repeat itself

He said something simular about melees roster.

But because of lucina and robin i think it already happen a few more last minute characters. (Lucina was not on that fully completed roster.)

 

[Thereallucario]

Yes but history is just going to repeat itself

He said something simular about melees roster.

But because of lucina and robin i think it already happen a few more last minute characters. (Lucina was not on that fully completed roster.)

Robin...? Why him? was he not planned from the start? if so can you show me a link?

 

[Masonomace]

The point im making with ness is that his games CANNOT grow, his creator said its done. c-falcon just is having a dry spell with his games. But you do bring up a good point on that matter. If he doesn't get a new game in the future, falcon punch may die out. But that's way farther in the future then ness.

Bummer. . .I don't keep up with Eartbound / Mother so I had no idea it discontinued. I even looked up sources & references to it's permanent sleep. My opinion is still neutral for Ness / Lucas, if they come back cool if they don't, then bummer but I'd be over it. The funny thing about Falcon Punch is Sakurai made that move up & it never was expressed once in any of his video games except for the F-Zero Falcon Densetsu anime's ending doing it justice.

Robin...? Why him? was he not planned from the start? if so can you show me a link?

http://wiiudaily.com/2014/07/chrom-not-in-super-smash-bros/
Source: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Robin...? Why him? was he not planned from the start? if so can you show me a link?

Oops right only lucina was not planned.

And way this is the interview

 

[LIQUID12A]

Oops right only lucina was not planned.

And way this is the interview

Poor, poor Chrom.

 

[BlueBubbee]

Not to mention custom specials for every single character, that's just adding on extra work to every character let alone there being a possibility of 50+ characters. . .I keep thinking about it & I've thought about it the more content I see, but there's not way Sakurai was just starting SSB4's development in 2012, it had to of been late 2010 - early 2011. . .there's just no way. . .2 years of development for Sma4sh being on 3DS AND WiiU?!

SSB = 12
Melee more than doubled the O12's size being = 26
Brawl more than tripled the O12's roster size = 39
Sm4sh will most definitely quadruple that. Being at least = 48

I doubt the customizable specials will be as balanced as the regular moves, as you can't use them online. They still can't be overpowered, though.


I was looking at the numbers for the roster characters you gave, and I realized a pattern (if you all consider 3 a pattern).

64 was the first game, so it set the bar at 12 to start.
Melee was the second game, and it doubled the original size and added 2
Brawl was the third game, so it tripled the original and added 3.
If the pattern continues, U/3D will have 52, because it will quadruple the original and add 4.

Or, if you're more of an algebra person:
c = g(12) + g

C: Number of characters
G: Game number in the series

 

[LIQUID12A]

I doubt the customizable specials will be as balanced as the regular moves, as you can't use them online. They still can't be overpowered, though.


I was looking at the numbers for the roster characters you gave, and I realized a pattern (if you all consider 3 a pattern).

64 was the first game, so it set the bar at 12 to start.
Melee was the second game, and it doubled the original size and added 2
Brawl was the third game, so it tripled the original and added 3.
If the pattern continues, U/3D will have 52, because it will quadruple the original and add 4.

Or, if you're more of an algebra person:
c = g(12) + g

C: Number of characters
G: Game number in the series

I hate math, but I'm not even mad...that's...BRILLIANT.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I doubt the customizable specials will be as balanced as the regular moves, as you can't use them online. They still can't be overpowered, though.


I was looking at the numbers for the roster characters you gave, and I realized a pattern (if you all consider 3 a pattern).

64 was the first game, so it set the bar at 12 to start.
Melee was the second game, and it doubled the original size and added 2
Brawl was the third game, so it tripled the original and added 3.
If the pattern continues, U/3D will have 52, because it will quadruple the original and add 4.

Or, if you're more of an algebra person:
c = g(12) + g

C: Number of characters
G: Game number in the series

Math major?

 

[Masonomace]

props to both @ woopyfrood & @ BlueBubbee for their pattern equations. They're equations give the same answer. Cheers~<3

*so hyped for page 160*

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I predict that on page 174, Mewtwo will be revealed within that lapse.

 

[Steelia]

http://gamerant.com/smash-bros-wii-u-roster-size-curt-158340/

This was at the beginning of development, yes? At the time of this article, my theory is that Sakurai underestimated just how much work could get done with the Namco staff, and they're (way) ahead of schedule character-wise. If they have enough time to make alternate costumes, voice changes and all, I'd take that as a good sign on how well character creating has been going.

 

[Masonomace]

This was at the beginning of development, yes? At the time of this article, my theory is that Sakurai underestimated just how much work could get done with the Namco staff, and they're (way) ahead of schedule character-wise. If they have enough time to make alternate costumes, voice changes and all, I'd take that as a good sign on how well character creating has been going.

I'm loving how smooth the development is running especially with BandaiNamco. Just read this source & found it neat.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I'm loving how smooth the development is running especially with BandaiNamco. Just read this source & found it neat.

SUPER SMASH BROS....6?!!?
Wait, we're still on 4 though...

 

[woopyfrood]

Or, if you're more of an algebra person:
c = g(12) + g

C: Number of characters
G: Game number in the series

...I hate math.

 

[TheSoraKid]

SUPER SMASH BROS....6?!!?
Wait, we're still on 4 though...

Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U are considered 4 and 5 respectively in a sense.

 

[Kingkool]

But there HAS to be a limit. You can't go balancing around 50 bloody characters.

I think they can, I heard there was some absurd number of people working on just balancing the game and I don't think Nintendo is afraid to patch their games anymore so if someone is breaking the game even after release they'll fix it. Especially with the online being more prevalent this time i'm sure they'll be getting data on who the most played characters/characters who win most games are.