Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[IsmaR]

Pika and Jiggs have the Smash 64 vet status along with being anime mascots.

Greninja and 'Zard for obvious typing.

And even Gamefreak seems to officially be on the Mewtwo v. Lucario ship.

Spoiler

 

[MewtwoX825]

I was refering to the Pokemons involvment in smash, not in their own games.

Pikachu and Jigglypuff are the cute SSB64 Pokemon reps and the only ones to be in all smash games.

Charizard and Greninja are the most popular starters from their respective gens. One caters to the "G-wunners" while the other caters to the new gen fans. Plus Fire and Water are elements that are always conflicting each other.

Lucario and Mewtwo dont really have any relations other than that promo art for the Mega Evos. The smash games do make them similar to eachother even though they only have one move in common. And addition to Psychic and Fighting being seen as rivaling types in the games, they also posses non-red flame effects for some of their moves.

Edit: what IsmaR just said.

 

[Hexaped]

What kind of new moves do you want Mewtwo to have? Do you want no changes?
I hope Mewtwo gets a fun new Psychic-type move.
Like a force push from Star Wars. A precise but powerful pulse to just launch things. Or a circular barrier pulse, to differentiate from Force Palm.
I am essentially thinking of one of alternate Gohan's moves from DBZ Shin Budokai, if anyone knows what that is. That would be a fun move in SSB.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Pika and Jiggs have the Smash 64 vet status along with being anime mascots.

Greninja and 'Zard for obvious typing.

And even Gamefreak seems to officially be on the Mewtwo v. Lucario ship.

Spoiler

I'm going to be nit-picky and say Jigglypuff hasn't really been an anime mascot in a long time...last time the recurring one appeared was Johto IIRC (Edit: Correction, last appearance was once in Advanced Generation). And the first pic was the one I was referring to.

You do make some good points in the context of Smash Bros and its community. While Gamefreak has played with the idea of a rivalry between the two in some marketing, I personally just take Pokemon rivalry in the context of the games themselves. Nothing in the games really points toward them really being enemies. I guess people could make them rivals by bringing a Lucario to fight Mewtwo ingame or two people battling each other can use them. Still, maybe I could have been clearer about them not really having a rivalry being my personal view based on in-game...

Edit: And even if there are rivalries between some Pokemon in Smash, I don't see why all Pokemon need rivalries when there are plenty of Smash characters without a rival.

 

[Morbi]

I'm going to be nit-picky and say Jigglypuff hasn't really been an anime mascot in a long time...last time the recurring one appeared was Johto IIRC. And the first pic was the one I was referring to.

You do make some good points in the context of Smash Bros and its community. While Gamefreak has played with the idea of a rivalry between the two in some marketing, I personally just take Pokemon rivalry in the context of the games themselves. Nothing in the games really points toward them really being enemies. I guess people could make them rivals by bringing a Lucario to fight Mewtwo ingame or two people battling each other can use them. Still, maybe I could have been clearer about them not really having a rivalry being my personal view based on in-game...

Mewtwo's rival will always be Mew from my perspective.

 

[Hexaped]

Ken Sugimori drew a picture for a TCG card where Mew and Mewtwo are looking at each other. I am unsure if I would have posted this if IsmaR did not use official art as evidence, but the picture, either way, suggests a relationship beyond the anime or their DNA. Thanks for your thorough summary of why Mewtwo remains a significant character, MorbidAltruism.

 

[Chiroz]

Ehh, I wouldn't consider Pikachu and Jigglypuff being rivals/counterparts. Same with Mewtwo and Lucario. They have similarities, but you can find similarities among many Pokemon. So for me, rival/counterparts would be things like version exclusives or outright stated in Pokedex rivals like Seviper/Zangoose or Electabuzz/Magmar. But then there are counterparts for each generation like regional birds, starters, electric mouse...etc. I guess I don't really accept Mewtwo and Lucario being rivals or counterparts because one is a legendary and another is a popular Pokemon that is much easier to obtain even if there is one official art I can think of where Mega Mewtwo Y battles Mega Lucario...

Not only that but before that artwork there has been several artworks from Nintendo themselves of regular Mewtwo fighting Lucario, plus both Mewtwo and Lucario were basically the poster boys for Mega Evolutions, Mewtwo being the first ever to be shown in media while Lucario is the one to be shown first in game.

I would say though that this "rivalry" is only acknowledged by Nintendo because it got so damn popular, and all because Lucario "replaced" Mewtwo in Brawl. So in a way, that rivalry was actually created by Smash.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

What kind of new moves do you want Mewtwo to have? Do you want no changes?
I hope Mewtwo gets a fun new Psychic-type move.
Like a force push from Star Wars. A precise but powerful pulse to just launch things. Or a circular barrier pulse, to differentiate from Force Palm.
I am essentially thinking of one of alternate Gohan's moves from DBZ Shin Budokai, if anyone knows what that is. That would be a fun move in SSB.

Force choke (like what Mewtwo did to that Gyarados trainer in the first movie) is where it's at, which I wouldn't mind seeing as a new f-throw animation or something.

Mewtwo's rival will always be Mew from my perspective.

Eh, until Mew gets a megaform or something, I'd say it has long-since lost the title/status of being Mewtwo's rival.

 

[Aninymouse]

Y'know, since Mega Mewtwo Y was the one Sakurai and Game Freak were "thinking about," how would y'all feel about Mewtwo's return to Smash being exclusively in his/her Mega Y form?

Personally, I'd be fine with it. Since Mega Y's "tail" in on its head, the tail-based attacks would probably need new animations. For that reason, I'm not sure Sakurai would add Mega Y as a Final Smash, since it would require changing Mewtwo's moveset to accommodate it. And, well, "no transformations." Mega Char and Mega Luc change appearance, yes, but their body structure and moves seem to be exactly the same. Lucario just gets a power buff, and Charizard is likely similar.

That said, I think I'd still prefer regular Mewtwo to come back. Mega Y just doesn't have the same charm. I prefer Mega X for Smash, anyway.

 

[Shuriblur]

Y'know, since Mega Mewtwo Y was the one Sakurai and Game Freak were "thinking about," how would y'all feel about Mewtwo's return to Smash being exclusively in his/her Mega Y form?

Personally, I'd be fine with it. Since Mega Y's "tail" in on its head, the tail-based attacks would probably need new animations. For that reason, I'm not sure Sakurai would add Mega Y as a Final Smash, since it would require changing Mewtwo's moveset to accommodate it. And, well, "no transformations." Mega Char and Mega Luc change appearance, yes, but their body structure and moves seem to be exactly the same. Lucario just gets a power buff, and Charizard is likely similar.

That said, I think I'd still prefer regular Mewtwo to come back. Mega Y just doesn't have the same charm. I prefer Mega X for Smash, anyway.

Little Mac transforms into Giga Mac, who looks quite different. Whose to say Mewtwo still couldn't change into his Y form? Personally, for Mewtwo's final smash, I'd rather him transform into his Y form, perform a move like Psystrike, then change back.

 

[woopyfrood]

Y'know, since Mega Mewtwo Y was the one Sakurai and Game Freak were "thinking about," how would y'all feel about Mewtwo's return to Smash being exclusively in his/her Mega Y form?

Since mega evolutions are clearly final smashes for other Pokemon, it would not make sense to have another Pokemon rep who was in its mega evolved form 100% of the time. I've said it before: simply transforming into a mega evo as an aesthetic part of doing a singular move as a final smash would circumvent the need for new animations that a Wario-Man style final smash would demand.

And even Gamefreak seems to officially be on the Mewtwo v. Lucario ship.

Err, a "ship" is specifically romantic.

Anyway, the fact that there is no actual rivalry between Mewtwo and Lucario in the games is hardly relevant. As long as executive powers recognize the rivalry between the fandoms as being prominent enough to cater to, we will see more of them together in out-of-main-series games and official artwork. This is another argument as to why Lucario's presence helps Mewtwo's chances. If Mewtwo had been revealed first, it would have worked the other way as well.

 

[IsmaR]

Err, a "ship" is specifically romantic.

They aren't called "naughtical vessels" for nothing.

Implications aside, there's more than just romantic ships. Fanonwise at the least, MyuuCario is a love-hate sort of deal, most likely because of upset people playing the blame game.

 

[IonProductionz]

I'm going to be nit-picky and say Jigglypuff hasn't really been an anime mascot in a long time...last time the recurring one appeared was Johto IIRC (Edit: Correction, last appearance was once in Advanced Generation). And the first pic was the one I was referring to.

You do make some good points in the context of Smash Bros and its community. While Gamefreak has played with the idea of a rivalry between the two in some marketing, I personally just take Pokemon rivalry in the context of the games themselves. Nothing in the games really points toward them really being enemies. I guess people could make them rivals by bringing a Lucario to fight Mewtwo ingame or two people battling each other can use them. Still, maybe I could have been clearer about them not really having a rivalry being my personal view based on in-game...

Edit: And even if there are rivalries between some Pokemon in Smash, I don't see why all Pokemon need rivalries when there are plenty of Smash characters without a rival.

I doubt Mewtwo was added to Melee because of his smashing rivalries in the anime/movie spotlights, otherwise we would've been playing as mew as well. (Which wouldn't be such a bad idea if it didnt sound like a cat with a brain disorder)

Mewtwo was added to Melee because he was so freaking popular. People loved him so much that they would let their gamecube cook under its own hardware as they let a stock battle go on overnight, just to play him in the morning while eating their sunny side eggs, which was prepared on the gamecube's 4000 degree power brick.

Point is, if Mewtwo was a character in smash back then because of it's popularity, he has 10x more the reasons to come back on smash 4...some of which being that:

• He's Mewtwo...
• First Mega Evolution to hit your eyes (Dubbed Mewthree for goodness sake)
• He's the only static legendary in Pokemon X and Y other than the flagship legendaries and pixel slug over there
• He killed 5 Genesects in 2013
• He's Mewtwo...

You'd think the countless amount of people imploding during the end of that smash direct on how mewtwo came back would be a subtle hint to Sakurai and friends that smash fans want Mewtwo. Besides, it's been clear that Smash 4 was made by the players, for the players, and to not include mewtwo in that roster would be a nasty kick to the shin on the dev's part...

 

[Xzsmmc]

and to not include mewtwo in that roster would be a nasty kick to the shin on the dev's part...

That didn't change Ridley's most likely fate.

 

[IonProductionz]

That didn't change Ridley's most likely fate.

Considering there is a triple schism between "He's Perfect" // "He's too big" // "He's a boss character", I don't think the same circumstances are true between Ridley and Mewtwo.
You always have to remember mewtwo was a character beforehand.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Implying schisms among fanbase(s) have any power over whether or not a character gets in.

Even schisms with Mewtwo grew back after the Greninja reveal, not that it'll really affect the character in question in reality.

 

[Louie G.]

That didn't change Ridley's most likely fate.

Believe it or not, Ridley isn't the most popular Smash Bros "newcomer" in the world, does not have 2 Mega Evolutions, is not the star of 2 new movies (and appearing in a third), is not heavily advertised, has not been mentioned by name by Sakurai, and has not been planned for every Smash Bros game so far.

Ridley is only popular in the west, and I could argue that Mac is the only western character we're getting. Mewtwo is popular worldwide and has a fanbase literally impossible to ignore. He does the fanbase characteristic with Ridley.

They are both in the running still, but Mewtwo is far more likely than Ridley. Both of them could very well make it, though.

The situations aren't comparable by any means, as Ridley's shadow has been shown and hinted to be a stage boss while Mewtwo has been absent from all gameplay footage so far.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do agree that Mewtwo is far more likely than Ridley to be playable. Besides everything he has going for him, Mewtwo, unlike Ridley, was never specifically said by Sakurai to be a difficult character to implement in Smash.

The thing about Mewtwo is that there is no newcomers that has the potential to match the level of hype he would bring both among the mainstream audience and the hardcore fanbase due to his sheer iconicness and worldwide popularity. Combined with the fact that he is the character that is currently in the spotlight due to being the "hot" Pokemon and he has nothing going against him.

Overall, I think E3 is where he'll be revealed, mostly because he's simply too hype-worthy on a level beyond every newcomer character possible, including Mega Man, to simply be passed up for a reveal for any good reason. The idea of leaving him out in general is not really something I can see Sakurai doing this time around, so I won't debate about the likelyhood of Mewtwo getting left out from Smash 4. He is not just the A-game to bring to E3, but also one that is sufficient alone for an E3 reveal to hype and draw many, many people around the world to buying Smash 4, something that would be very valuable considering the state of the Wii-U. Heck, with Mewtwo more than sufficiently being able to hype up people, no newcomer would be needed to be shown there and thus can be in as unlockable characters not announced pre-reveal. (given the lack of newcomer unlockable characters in Brawl, this makes sense). Though I still expect Pac-Man to be shown at E3 just because he's a third-party character.

 

[Lautsuu~]

I do agree that Mewtwo is far more likely than Ridley to be playable. Besides everything he has going for him, Mewtwo, unlike Ridley, was never specifically said by Sakurai to be a difficult character to implement in Smash.

The thing about Mewtwo is that there is no newcomers the potential to match the level of hype he would bring both among the mainstream audience and the hardcore fanbase due to his sheer iconicness and worldwide popularity. Combined with the fact that he is the character that is currently in the spotlight due to being the "hot" Pokemon and he has nothing going against him.

Overall, I think E3 is where he'll be revealed, mostly because he's simply too hype-worthy on a level beyond every newcomer character possible, including Mega Man, to simply be passed up for a reveal for any good reason. The idea of leaving him out in general is not really something I can see Sakurai doing this time around, so I won't debate about the likelyhood of Mewtwo getting left out from Smash 4. He is not just the A-game to bring to E3, but also one that is sufficient alone for an E3 reveal to hype and draw many, many people around the world to buying Smash 4, something that would be very valuable considering the state of the Wii-U. Heck, with Mewtwo more than sufficiently being able to hype up people, no newcomer would be needed to be shown there and thus can be in as unlockable characters not announced pre-reveal. (given the lack of newcomer unlockable characters in Brawl, this makes sense). Though I still expect Pac-Man to be shown at E3 just because he's a third-party character.

Added to the fact that one of the reasons a few of the hardcore Melee fans didn't buy Brawl was because Mewtwo wasn't in the roster.

 

[IonProductionz]

Implying schisms among fanbase(s) have any power over whether or not a character gets in.

Even schisms with Mewtwo grew back after the Greninja reveal, not that it'll really affect the character in question in reality.

I don't think Greninja being announced has the same effect as the 99% chance of there being a boss Ridley in the Metroid stage.

These schisms I'm refering to do not directed represent the likelihood of a character being on the smash roster, but they are legitimate questions that the Dev Team has to consider when adding characters. Don't get me wrong, I want Ridley to be in the game as much as the next guy (Oh wait, I don't think that's a good thing), but lets be honest here, Mewtwo has all the more chances of being added to the smash roster than Ridley has in a landslide.

I know this is a Mewtwo thread, but doesn't it seem odd how Sakurai has subtly hinted things referencing Ridley's inclusion in the game, like not completely showing him in the Metroid Stage as a boss or talking about how size changes in the smash universe? I wouldn't rule him out yet, but he definitely doesn't stand against Mewtwo when it comes to chances of inclusion.

 

[Louie G.]

Ridley's still got a shot, but Mewtwo > Ridley always.

 

[False Sense]

I have to admit, it would be kind of tragically hilarious of Ridley got in and Mewtwo didn't.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

These schisms I'm refering to do not directed represent the likelihood of a character being on the smash roster, but they are legitimate questions that the Dev Team has to consider when adding characters.

So you're saying the points that toobigots try to bring to the table against Ridley would be among those that the team has to consider? I don't think so, considering all the things people said against Olimar ("would be too small"), Rosalina ("Waluigi and Bowser Jr are getting in over her and would be a Peach clone"), Charizard ("Deoxys would get in way before him"), etc. before they were first revealed for Brawl/SSB4. The schisms among fans/speculators don't mean jack **** in the grand scheme of things.

And no one was even arguing that Ridley was as likely as or has the credentials that Mewtwo's got, so I don't know why people started comparing them.

edit: Anyway, we should get back to Mewtwo and alone on this thread before it gets anymore off-topic.

 

[Aninymouse]

I find it interesting that Greninja has two moves that allow him to vanish into thin air. That was definitely one of Mewtwo's exclusive characteristics in Melee. With the Brawl-style air dodge coming back, it makes me wonder if Mewtwo will still vanish for his air dodge. I still expect him to vanish in every other instance, though.

It's been ages since I last played Melee... I know most people were underwhelmed by his moveset in that game, but I feel like, with all the great changes we're seeing to other long-time characters (Bowser, Samus, Pit, Sheik, and others), a few power/weight tweaks and a couple new moves would be great for his return.

Mewtwo's run, aerials, throws, item use animation, Confusion, Disable, Shadow Ball, Teleport, dodge rolls, and double jump are all very fitting. I want all those to return. Confusion definitely needs a buff, though, and I wish Disable was faster. I think a faster jab, a new dash attack, and maybe a new up smash would do him well. I can't even remember what his forward tilt is... Wow. It's been too long. I know I like his down tilt because it's good, but I think they could make a cooler one.

And while I know Mewtwo doesn't actually learn Shadow Claw in Pokemon, it was one of his few powerful moves. For that reason I'd hate to see it go, but if they replaced it with a more fitting attack that still had KO potential, that would be fine.

Oh man, and his "balancing on the edge" animation - that has to come back! Mewtwo just does not give a blip, and I love it.

Maybe if they make Confusion do some damage, Disable could be replaced by Barrier! Man, that'd be great! Eveyone knows about Mewtwo's love of psychic Barrier attacks. Strangely absent in Melee. If not as a B move, for his Final Smash he ought to fly around with a Barrier up (Mega Evolved), blasting people with Psystrike. No more holding back!

 

[PLATINUM7]

I find it interesting that Greninja has two moves that allow him to vanish into thin air. That was definitely one of Mewtwo's exclusive characteristics in Melee. With the Brawl-style air dodge coming back, it makes me wonder if Mewtwo will still vanish for his air dodge. I still expect him to vanish in every other instance, though.

It's been ages since I last played Melee... I know most people were underwhelmed by his moveset in that game, but I feel like, with all the great changes we're seeing to other long-time characters (Bowser, Samus, Pit, Sheik, and others), a few power/weight tweaks and a couple new moves would be great for his return.

Mewtwo's run, aerials, throws, item use animation, Confusion, Disable, Shadow Ball, Teleport, dodge rolls, and double jump are all very fitting. I want all those to return. Confusion definitely needs a buff, though, and I wish Disable was faster. I think a faster jab, a new dash attack, and maybe a new up smash would do him well. I can't even remember what his forward tilt is... Wow. It's been too long. I know I like his down tilt because it's good, but I think they could make a cooler one.

And while I know Mewtwo doesn't actually learn Shadow Claw in Pokemon, it was one of his few powerful moves. For that reason I'd hate to see it go, but if they replaced it with a more fitting attack that still had KO potential, that would be fine.

Oh man, and his "balancing on the edge" animation - that has to come back! Mewtwo just does not give a blip, and I love it.

Maybe if they make Confusion do some damage, Disable could be replaced by Barrier! Man, that'd be great! Eveyone knows about Mewtwo's love of psychic Barrier attacks. Strangely absent in Melee. If not as a B move, for his Final Smash he ought to fly around with a Barrier up (Mega Evolved), blasting people with Psystrike. No more holding back!

Greninja needs to vanish into thin air because it's a ninja.

Mewtwo's Ftilt was him flicking his tail forward. Here it is with his hitboxes.

 

[Aninymouse]

Greninja needs to vanish into thin air because it's a ninja.

Mewtwo's Ftilt was him flicking his tail forward. Here it is with his hitboxes.

I agree that Greninja needs to vanish. I wasn't saying otherwise. I just find it interesting that he is a vanishing Pokemon. It makes me wonder what seeing those two on the battlefield at the same time will be like. Mewtwo is usually invincible while invisible, for one thing. Will Greninja be the same way?

And thanks for posting the F tilt. Wow, it's as terrible as I remember. No wonder no one ever uses it. They could definitely do a lot better... A disjointed hitbox with Mewtwo using his arms in conjuntion with his powers makes a lot more sense (like a stronger version of his jab, maybe with more of a diagonally upward motion, to set up for aerial chase combos with N air or F air). I like the D and U tilts, though. The tail makes more sense with those, since Mewtwo fully spins around.

Just one more thing: I like how Project M seemed to make his N air a bit bigger. It was always one of his best air-to-ground attacks, and one of his few good approach options. At least that's how I felt. Most characters have great B airs, and Mewtwo was no exception. But I feel like B air was more of an air-to-air attack. N air needs to come back, hopefully with the range and priority it has in Project M.

 

[AuraWielder]

I agree that Greninja needs to vanish. I wasn't saying otherwise. I just find it interesting that he is a vanishing Pokemon. It makes me wonder what seeing those two on the battlefield at the same time will be like. Mewtwo is usually invincible while invisible, for one thing. Will Greninja be the same way?

And thanks for posting the F tilt. Wow, it's as terrible as I remember. No wonder no one ever uses it. They could definitely do a lot better... A disjointed hitbox with Mewtwo using his arms in conjuntion with his powers makes a lot more sense. I like the D and U tilts, though. The tail makes more sense with those, since Mewtwo fully spins around.

Mewtwo honestly could use a bit of revamping. He's pretty interesting in Project M, though I would honestly prefer that Sakurai did something different with Mewtwo in Smash 4. He could keep that really cool neutral aerial, and his forward aerial. Keep Shadow Ball, Teleport, and his unique Down Smash, but maybe swap out Confusion and Disable. Confusion could stay if it was buffed, but Disable really needs to be replaced with something else in my opinion.
Also, I think that in both Melee and Project M, he uses his tail in way too many attacks. I hope they cut down on all of those tail attacks.

 

[Aninymouse]

Mewtwo honestly could use a bit of revamping. He's pretty interesting in Project M, though I would honestly prefer that Sakurai did something different with Mewtwo in Smash 4. He could keep that really cool neutral aerial, and his forward aerial. Keep Shadow Ball, Teleport, and his unique Down Smash, but maybe swap out Confusion and Disable. Confusion could stay if it was buffed, but Disable really needs to be replaced with something else in my opinion.
Also, I think that in both Melee and Project M, he uses his tail in way too many attacks. I hope they cut down on all of those tail attacks.

Pretty much how I feel.

I edited my previous post with an idea for a new F tilt because I didn't want to double post. But, expanding on that idea...

What if we take Confusion, add a nice colored hitbox to it, and make it more of a disjointed swiping attack. That's his new F tilt. Might be good for setting up combos, and keeping charcters off of you. Mewtwo in Melee definitely liked to stay at mid range versus the higher tier characters, since he had such an awkward moveset.

If they did something like that, that frees up a spot for a new side B. Perhaps a nice anime-style Psychic? Basically, the "force push." Could make for a great recovery-gimping move, and gives you a great aerial option besides the meteor and B air spam. Mewtwo has great recovery and a decent anti-air game, so he feels at home off-stage. On-stage, it would still have some limitations, like the old Confusion did. But, with a bigger horizontal hitbox and a horizontal push instead of the in-place flip, you could more effectively reflect projectiles, or even try to push people into a missed Shadow Ball.

 

[woopyfrood]

Maybe if they make Confusion do some damage,

Confusion does do damage. 10, I think.

Also, never remove Disable

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah, I sure wouldn't mind if the tilts he had before (tail flickering) were replaced with some light telekinetic moves or something (one or two tail moves is fine but he had too many, aerials included). The f-tilt being like Confusion would be a nice idea actually. Since he already has Psychic in the form of some of his throw moves though, I would still like Psycho Cut or something as a new side B (hell, Psystrike as a side B wouldn't be too much a stretch now with how Charizard has Flare Blitz as its side special), but the force push could always replace his f-throw as I said before.

edit: I think he meant Confusion doing some knockback damage?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Buffs
-Psystrike could be a smash!Like Megamans forward smash it would be a projectile.
-Confusion actually reflects
-Disable hits no matter what direction they face(or did this not matter in melee?)Does 3-5% instead of 1%.
-MMX is final smash since the tail in a different spot(though if they get it to work I'm up for MMY more)
-Side tilt is psycho cut
-NB is still shadow ball
-Down tilt and up tilt get a range buff.
-He weighs as much as Link so (85-104)
-Running speed is increased to Marioish
-Nair gets range buff

Nerfs:
-Throws are weaker
-Double jump height is slightly worse(since he'll probably fall slower than melee anyways)


Other:
-Falling speed is increased
-Fair is slightly weaker with a slightly larger hixbox

I would love this!

 

[Hexaped]

Do you want Disable to remain a special move, Jade_Rock55, or have you tweaked it to minimize your changes to the Mewtwo's moves?

 

[Aninymouse]

Buffs
-Psystrike could be a smash!Like Megamans forward smash it would be a projectile.
-Confusion actually reflects
-Disable hits no matter what direction they face(or did this not matter in melee?)Does 3-5% instead of 1%.
-MMX is final smash since the tail in a different spot(though if they get it to work I'm up for MMY more)
-Side tilt is psycho cut
-NB is still shadow ball
-Down tilt and up tilt get a range buff.
-He weighs as much as Link so (85-104)
-Running speed is increased to Marioish
-Nair gets range buff

Nerfs:
-Throws are weaker
-Double jump height is slightly worse(since he'll probably fall slower than melee anyways)


Other:
-Falling speed is increased
-Fair is slightly weaker with a slightly larger hixbox

I would love this!

Nerf his throws, are you nuts? Up throw is one of his best kill moves, and down throw is good for combos. I mean, unless Mewtwo gets a huge power buff on his other moves, how do you expect him to kill anyone? Mewtwo was not and should not be a combo-dependant character. Mewtwo needs a few heavy-hitting attacks to blow people away. Up throw is one of the coolest throws in the whole Smash series. That needs to stay powerful.

And nerf F air? Are you nuts? That's his only aerial that had any realistic kill potential in Melee, besides chasing people off-stage and poking them with B air to gimp them, or trying to spike them with D air. F air kills off the top blast zone, too, so it only usually works on-stage, anyway.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Yeah I mean not a lot like they'll still kill pretty well just not as well,I was thinking sense it looks like this game is between Melee and Brawl speed wise.Imagine if Mewtwo's melee up-throw was transferred to Brawl exactly the same,the average fall speed being much lower would make it so overpowered killing at 40%
I guess I should have said nerf it since the game looks slower.His forward smash needs to change or get way stronger.I would like it to be psystrike similar to megamans forward smash.

Do you want Disable to remain a special move, Jade_Rock55, or have you tweaked it to minimize your changes to the Mewtwo's moves?

Still down b.All specials are the same.Just buffed.

 

[Aninymouse]

Yeah I mean not a lot like they'll still kill pretty well just not as well,I was thinking sense it looks like this game is between Melee and Brawl speed wise.Imagine if Mewtwo's melee up-throw was transferred to Brawl exactly the same,the average fall speed being much lower would make it so overpowered killing at 40%
I guess I should have said nerf it since the game looks slower.His forward smash needs to change or get way stronger.I would like it to be psystrike similar to megamans forward smash.

Still down b.All specials are the same.Just buffed.

Definitely agree that the old F smash was pitiful. Buff it or nix it.

His U smash looked amazing, but people usually never got hit by the strongest point. Adding a "suction" property to it would fix that, like what they did with Samus' U smash.

 

[Hexaped]

Thanks for mentioning the up smash. I wonder why Mr. Sakurai made all those darkness attacks for Mewtwo. I would prefer if Mewtwo displayed a different visual effect for those moves. Perhaps this symbolized Mewtwo's "dark" nature? Or was it based on the use of Shadow Balls in the movie? Mewtwo learned no Dark-type moves then, even though that would not stop Mr. Sakurai.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I guess he kinda just lumped dark and shadow/ghost moves together at the time.

And to be fair all three of Mewtwo's smashes look great animation-wise. Though yeah, the up-smash has the most problems, but the other two could be made better by something as simple as less startup lag. Some have suggested him using both hands for the down-smash animation to cover both sides of him, though I still think it would look better if he used just one hand, while the attack itself would have more range like if you tried to approach him from behind while he's doing the d-smash or something.

 

[Aninymouse]

Thanks for mentioning the up smash. I wonder why Mr. Sakurai made all those darkness attacks for Mewtwo. [...] Perhaps this symbolized Mewtwo's "dark" nature? Or was it based on the use of Shadow Balls in the movie?

Short answer? Yes to all the above.

Something else to consider is that when Mewtwo was added to Melee, the Pokemon games were still very primitive and underdeveloped, at least in regards to graphics and the variety and number of attacks in the games.

Now that we're in the age of the 3DS, Pokemon has gained hundreds of new moves to draw from, and the attacks are much more visually interesting. Not as much artistic liberty is necessary, though I never mind a certain ammount of it in Smash. Sakurai really is a great artist, able to craft interesting attacks for characters who normally have nothing for the situation at hand. Mewtwo's "black hole" up smash was very creative, even if it has no basis in Pokemon at all.

I wouldn't mind if Mewtwo lost a few "darkness" attacks, just like I wouln't cry if he lost a few tail attacks. But some of them need to stay. They really do a lot to comprise the personality or flavor of Mewtwo in Melee - and he is basically a villain in Melee.

Interesting sidebar: the Mewtwo from the Genesect movie was actually a hero, not a villain. So for that reason alone, some of those random "dark" attacks might change.

I guess he kinda just lumped dark and shadow/ghost moves together at the time.

And to be fair all three of Mewtwo's smashes look great animation-wise. Though yeah, the up-smash has the most problems, but the other two could be made better by something as simple as less startup lag. Some have suggested him using both hands for the down-smash animation to cover both sides of him, though I still think it would look better if he used just one hand, while the attack itself would have more range like if you tried to approach him from behind while he's doing the d-smash or something.

I agree; the animations on his smash attacks are great. The way the attacks behaved is really what people like me disliked about them.

I wouldn't change anything about down smash, really. It's Mewtwo's best edge guarding attack from on stage. Off-stage, I usually see people harass opponents with back airs.

 

[Hexaped]

Mewtwo's back air was one of my favorite moves of all the usable moves in the game.
Down tilt was also very nice to use.

 

[egaddmario]

...I still can't believe someone suggested nerfing Mewtwo's throws. That was his selling point, if you ask me...