Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[cloud9]

It's hilarious that people are assuming that Mewtwo will be in SSB4. The main reason he was cut from Brawl was lack of relevance; at the time of Melee being released, he was very relevant in the Pokemon anime and the games. When Brawl came out, he had not appeared in a major role in the anime for many years, and he hadn't appeared in a game since FR/LG. While there is data for him on Brawl's disc, it is only a victory fanfare, and was probably there only for reference. The largest piece of evidence I can find for him having been planned for Brawl is his trophy artwork, which looks a lot more like a character trophy than any other Pokemon. While he is now more relevant, due to him getting a signature move and whatnot, there are still many more Pokemon more worthy of being included in SSB4. I am, however, in full support of him being included as a Poke Ball Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

It's hilarious that people are assuming that Mewtwo will be in SSB4. The main reason he was cut from Brawl was lack of relevance; at the time of Melee being released, he was very relevant in the Pokemon anime and the games. When Brawl came out, he had not appeared in a major role in the anime for many years, and he hadn't appeared in a game since FR/LG. While there is data for him on Brawl's disc, it is only a victory fanfare, and was probably there only for reference. The largest piece of evidence I can find for him having been planned for Brawl is his trophy artwork, which looks a lot more like a character trophy than any other Pokemon. While he is now more relevant, due to him getting a signature move and whatnot, there are still many more Pokemon more worthy of being included in SSB4. I am, however, in full support of him being included as a Poke Ball Pokemon.

It's hilarious that you beleive all that "relevancy" bull****.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It's hilarious that you beleive all that "relevancy" bull****.

Yeah, if Sakurai only kept characters that were "relevant", we wouldn't have Jigglypuff, or really any F-zero or Star Fox characters.

 

[cloud9]

Yes, but they are relevant to their respective franchises (with the possible exception of Jigglypuff). Mewtwo isn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but they are relevant to their respective franchises (with the possible exception of Jigglypuff). Mewtwo isn't.

The fact you beleive that Mewtwo was cut for relevancy shows ignorance.

Explain why then, was Roy the one cut instead of Marth? Roy was more relevant than Marth on technicality because he debuted in his series AFTER Melee, while Marth hasn't been relevant until after Brawl.

Then there's Sheik. While Zelda herself had been in Twilight Princess, Sheik had not. Which meant, Sheik had not been in a game since Ocarina of Time, which was two generations prior to Brawl.
And before you give the "she's part of Zelda" excuse, note that it would've taken much less time to give Zelda a new Down Special instead of bring back Sheik. But no, Sakurai kept Sheik despite being horribly irrelevant.

Then Ness. We had Lucas, so what was Ness for again? Ness had been irrelevant for even longer than Sheik (and unlike Sheik is STILL irrelevant to this day), and we had the perfect, relevant replacement in Lucas. Yet Ness stayed.

Don't even get me started on Pit. Unlike other Newcomers, he had been horribly irrelevant, having his latest game be on the Game Boy, and in Japan, on the Famicon instead, since Of Myths and Monsters had not been released there. So, if relevancy is key...why was Pit included? I mean, at least R.O.B. had a recent guest appearance in Mario Kart DS.

Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch had been irrelevant inbetween Melee and Brawl, Ice Climbers more so. So why did they stay if Mewtwo was too irrelevant to stay?

Now, admit your ignorance and don't even try to make excuses for why I am wrong, for I am not, or simply do not post in this thread again.

 

[Dre89]

I think the biggest obstacle to mewtwo coming back is the fact that he was cut from melee. They might think it'd look silly for a character a skip a generation.

 

[Steelia]

I think the biggest obstacle to mewtwo coming back is the fact that he was cut from melee. They might think it'd look silly for a character a skip a generation.

But it would be pretty ignorant of Sakurai to disregard the amount of support Mewtwo has garnered due to it. How many times have you heard, whether from users here, comments on other boards, or even on game articles related to SSBB, that Mewtwo being cut from Smash was one of the game's flaws?

Besides... how many fighting games have you seen cut characters and bring them back later down the line? Judging Tekken's character list, it looks like it happens all the time.

 

[SmashShadow]

This.
Having altered SSBM, making a speedier, stronger, and heavier Mewtwo (two points heavier than SSBB Charizard), he's still surprisingly easy to KO compared to others like Ganon and Bowser due to lack of friction and low gravity. Weight is only a small factor of it. Make him heavy, but keep the gravity/friction physics low and floaty. Totally fine by me.~

I would be more than fine with this. What I meant by my post is that I didn't wan't him to have jumps as luggish as Charizard. I want him to be heavier but I don't want his jumps to turn crappy.

 

[cloud9]

The fact you beleive that Mewtwo was cut for relevancy shows ignorance.

Explain why then, was Roy the one cut instead of Marth? Roy was more relevant than Marth on technicality because he debuted in his series AFTER Melee, while Marth hasn't been relevant until after Brawl.

Marth is the face of Fire Emblem. Characters like Mario and Link wouldn't be cut from Smash Bros, even if they hadn't appeared in a game for a while. Marth is the same.

Then there's Sheik. While Zelda herself had been in Twilight Princess, Sheik had not. Which meant, Sheik had not been in a game since Ocarina of Time, which was two generations prior to Brawl.
And before you give the "she's part of Zelda" excuse, note that it would've taken much less time to give Zelda a new Down Special instead of bring back Sheik. But no, Sakurai kept Sheik despite being horribly irrelevant.

I agree with you on this point. Sheik should not have been in Brawl.

Then Ness. We had Lucas, so what was Ness for again? Ness had been irrelevant for even longer than Sheik (and unlike Sheik is STILL irrelevant to this day), and we had the perfect, relevant replacement in Lucas. Yet Ness stayed.

See this. Ness has been around since the first game, and is more well known to western audiences than Lucas is. Although I do think the Mother series is overrepresented.

Don't even get me started on Pit. Unlike other Newcomers, he had been horribly irrelevant, having his latest game be on the Game Boy, and in Japan, on the Famicon instead, since Of Myths and Monsters had not been released there. So, if relevancy is key...why was Pit included? I mean, at least R.O.B. had a recent guest appearance in Mario Kart DS.

Pit (along with Lucas and Roy) was in the game to promote Uprising, and Sakurai has said that he likes including retro characters in Smash Bros.

Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch had been irrelevant inbetween Melee and Brawl, Ice Climbers more so. So why did they stay if Mewtwo was too irrelevant to stay?

Mr. Game & Watch represents Nintendo's very early forays into video games. He is the sole representation of a very important era in the history of Nintendo. Sakurai has said that the IC's were included to represent the Famicom era.

Now, admit your ignorance and don't even try to make excuses for why I am wrong, for I am not, or simply do not post in this thread again.

No

Mewtwo was removed from Brawl for a reason, and that reason still stands.

 

[Opossum]

You honestly think Pit was in Brawl to promote Uprising?!?

It hadn't even been an idea to Sakurai yet. The fact that you think Sheik shouldn't have been in Brawl also is a moot point. It happened, therefore, you admit that relevancy is not a reason for exclusion.

Not to mention Mewtwo had quite a bit of data. If "relevancy" was an actual justification, he wouldn't have had any, more than likely...

Maybe now you'll see the light.

 

[MasterMushroom]

I'm pretty sure Mewtwo's coming back. Considering GameFreak has been heavily promoting mewtwo this past year with video game references in all types of pokemon games, trading cards, anime, manga, and the like

There really shouldn't be a reason, NOW at least to doubt his come back

EDIT: I'm feeling somewhat that Gamefreak is maybe trying to make up for what his absence did in brawl. Just a hunch

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo was removed from Brawl for a reason, and that reason still stands.

Yes. The reason being time restraints.

Your relevancy bull**** is nothing more than bull****.

Also, Uprising wasn't even in Sakurai's head in Brawl's development.
Sakurai has been on record saying that he originally wanted to make a game for the 3DS that involved flying in the skies, then thought Pit would be perfect for that type of game, and thus Uprising was conceived. Which was long after Brawl.

 

[MasterMushroom]

Here is something I was really wondering to ask you guys. It may or may not be a bit controversial but I'll shoot with it considering its something everyone should think about. His voice over actor and phrases

In melee, he was voiced over by the popular Masachika Ichimura. He's a famous Singer and Seiyuu (Japanese VA), for many works such as Jack Skellington. Coincidentally enough, he was the VA for mewtwo in all the respective movies he appeared in. He also voiced mewtwo with full phrase/win dialogue in melee (switch the language to english to listen to the content, if you haven't all these years)

Mewtwo's Voice in melee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaqfC8KDKEs

now comparison how he talked in the movies, without the auto-tuned/robotosized backdrop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKv6glrR_ZA&feature=related

You can always search for more of that part here ^ in the related videos or just google "Japanese mewtwo voice" or something along those lines.

Now before anyone says anything, Nintendo related media in manga/anime seems A-OK considering Marth adopted his look from the One shot "Fire Emblem" comic he featured in. And jigglypuff's final smash references the old anime pilot episodes (Island of the Giant Pokemon and The Ancient Puzzle of Pokémopolis) just to mention a few

When we get the confirmation on whether or not Mewtwo's star VA will be voicing in SSB4; I'd like to ask you all a question. Would you all rather want:

A) Mewtwo's Badass japanese voice?

or

B) Some Generic western VA that will indeed butcher his voice completely

While we're on this, this just reminded me. On my list of things to ask Sakurai on the future "Smash Q+A" with the help of some friends; I'll try to ask for a region language converter like what we had in melee

Yes. The reason being time restraints.

Your relevancy bull**** is nothing more than bull****.

Also, Uprising wasn't even in Sakurai's head in Brawl's development.
Sakurai has been on record saying that he originally wanted to make a game for the 3DS that involved flying in the skies, then thought Pit would be perfect for that type of game, and thus Uprising was conceived. Which was long after Brawl.

Seriously, this

also:

@cloud9: just stop. You're making yourself look bad right now

 

[Deleted member]

there are still many more Pokemon more worthy of being included in SSB4.

Name them.

 

[Deleted member]

I pick Option C) Dan MuthaEFFin' Green.
He still does Pokemon roles despite 4Kids not holding the rights, and he was the latest English actor Mewtwo has had.
I would say Phillip Bartlett, the First Movie actor, but he's long gone.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At one point, I envisioned Eric Newsome (Meta Knight's English voice actor) to be Mewtwo's next voice actor.

 

[---]

Definitely going to be interesting to see how Sakurai addresses cut characters this time around.


@Voice Actor: Wouldn't mind the guy who did MK's voice to do Mewtwo's. Probably going to get someone from the anime though (speaking of which, the VAing since after Movie 8 has sucked).

 

[Steelia]

A) Mewtwo's Badass japanese voice?

or

B) Some Generic western VA that will indeed butcher his voice completely

Have the games reintroduce the option to choose languages, and I wouldn't mind too much having an English VA... so long as I can hear taunts like these again.

To be honest, when I was younger, I was actually a bit disappointed NOT to hear him speak English. Or to see that his L/R shield wasn't like the Barrier shield he had in the movie.

I vote for Dan Green for English VA as well... even if Dan Green sounds like Dan Green in everything.

EDIT: I'm feeling somewhat that Gamefreak is maybe trying to make up for what his absence did in brawl. Just a hunch

I believe the same thing. Refer to this post...

You too, cloud9.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

After hearing Eric Newsome's Meta Knight voice, it easily made me vision what it would be like if Mewtwo was voiced by him too. Let's just say that the deep, dark, masculine voice that Meta Knight had would fit Mewtwo's character a lot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That Sheik was kept in Brawl, but Mewtwo was cut was a big blow in the face for me. :/ And it's particially one of the reasons I'd rather see Sheik go than stay. Impa would be much better anyway.

 

[assosiaan2014]

They gotta bring Mewtwo back, he was one of my favorites from Melee. If they touch up his moveset a bit, he can be just fine. Add in Psystrike, man, he'll be good. After all, he was supposed to be placed in brawl alongside Lucario. With both of them in SSB4, it'll be awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

That Sheik was kept in Brawl, but Mewtwo was cut was a big blow in the face for me. :/ And it's particially one of the reasons I'd rather see Sheik go than stay. Impa would be much better anyway.

If Mewtwo's removal is part of your vendetta against Sheik, then why not just support Mewtwo's return instead of Sheik's removal?
And no, Impa would not be better, and stop trying to drag Impa everywhere. This is a Mewtwo thread for crying out loud.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It came to the discussion. And I said, if ANY character should be cut cause of relevancy it should be Sheik and not Mewtwo. It's just particial, but I dislike Sheik anyway, ever since Melee. And Impa is better than Sheik even if we disregard relevancy. Though her more relevant role is easily her best, so there you have it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Because Mewtwo returning would be a huge embarrassment to the Super Smash Bros series. Sadly people will still be blinded by nostalgia to figure that out...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Because Mewtwo returning would be a huge embarrassment to the Super Smash Bros series. Sadly people will still be blinded by nostalgia to figure that out...

...explain.

He's the most well-known legendary, at least from the First Gen, and he still shows up prominently in remakes and spinoffs. People wanting him back isn't just "nostalgia".

 

[Steelia]

Because Mewtwo being cut was a huge embarrassment to the Super Smash Bros series.

Fixed.
10fixed

 

[Deleted member]

It came to the discussion. And I said, if ANY character should be cut cause of relevancy it should be Sheik and not Mewtwo. It's just particial, but I dislike Sheik anyway, ever since Melee. And Impa is better than Sheik even if we disregard relevancy. Though her more relevant role is easily her best, so there you have it.

No, it didn't. As usual, you turned an unrelated discussion to "Super Happy Fun Impa Time". Did you not learn from the old thread that NO ONE likes it when you do that, and that you get more people against her that way?

And if any character should be cut for relevancy, it should be Ness. At least Sheik has OoT3D.

Because Mewtwo returning would be a huge embarrassment to the Super Smash Bros series. Sadly people will still be blinded by nostalgia to figure that out...

Given your track record of poor judgment in characters, I'm pretty sure you have no say.

Mewtwo returning is no way a "huge embarassment" nor are people blinded by nostalgia.
I mean, GOD FORBID people actually want Mewtwo back because they LIKE him or possibly MAINED him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ness = original 12. Besides, he had his game ported on GBA in Japan. Not that that is much, but at least Ness was a MAIN character, playable, and is one of the few good choices to represent EarthBound. Sheik is way different, and the Zelda franchise is huge. Even as far as one-offs go, Sheik is still one of the worst choices. Around the time of Melee it was different, even though I personally was pretty pissed SHEIK got an original moveset and not Ganondorf...

Anyway, Mewtwo wasn't irrelevant even during Brawl's development. Not more than Pokemon Trainer, as both Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer where in FireRed / LeafGreen. And how are Pokemon characters even ****ing irrelevant anyway?? They are all obtainable in every generation as far as I know, in ways and forms.

Mewtwo 4 Smash!

 

[Deleted member]

Don't use the Original 12 crap, as Ness was planned to be replaced in Melee by Lucas, so it could've easily been done in Brawl, especially given that Lucas made it and was a starter.
Ness and also Jigglypuff are not "safe" by any means.
And get over yourself over your stupid vendetta against Sheik. Most of what I've seen is just because she's not Impa.
And of course Sheik got an original moveset while Ganondorf didn't; Ganondorf was not even PLANNED for Melee to begin with, but was included later to essentially beef up the roster by adding "model-swap" characters, that we know today as clones.

So really, it was either Captain Ganon or no Ganon at all until probably Brawl. Pick your poison. (And no, replacing Sheik with Ganondorf in Melee is not an option, nor is removing Sheik or adding Ganondorf as a non-clone. Just those two options, because those were the only options back then.)

But none of this has anything to do with Mewtwo, so go make some Impa thread or some Anti-Shiek thread and make your case there without being completely biased. Maybe then you'll get support.

 

[Deleted member]

Because Mewtwo returning would be a huge embarrassment to the Super Smash Bros series. Sadly people will still be blinded by nostalgia to figure that out...

Illogical arguments like this requires a certain GIF...

 

[Opossum]

Illogical arguments like this requires a certain GIF...

Does that suffice? But yeah, Mewtwo fans have more backing than "blind nostalgia"...

 

[Deleted member]

Does that suffice? But yeah, Mewtwo fans have more backing than "blind nostalgia"...

It does, but I had something else in mind...

 

[Deleted member]

I feel these images negate anything Habanero has to say.

 

[Bio-Blue]

If they do bring in Mewtwo again, i really hope its not that Black and White design.
That forehead is way to bulbous.......just saying........or maybe its the angle.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

If they do bring in Mewtwo again, i really hope its not that Black and White design.
That forehead is way to bulbous.......just saying........or maybe its the angle.

Do you mean in-game? In Black and White, they basically took his sprite from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and animated it...I wish they could have improved on it.

If he returns, I wonder what kinds of detail would be put into him...

 

[Enlong]

I haven't had the opportunity to play Pokémon Conquest yet. However, that guy with a Mewtwo, is that Nobunaga?

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I haven't had the opportunity to play Pokémon Conquest yet. However, that guy with a Mewtwo, is that Nobunaga?

No, that is Kenshin. Nobunaga is seen with Zekrom on the boxart. He is also known for having a shiny Rayquaza.

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't had the opportunity to play Pokémon Conquest yet. However, that guy with a Mewtwo, is that Nobunaga?

No, Nobunaga uses a Zekrom and a Shiny Rayquaza. (Only warlord to use two Legendaries).

That is Uesugi Kenshin.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't use the Original 12 crap, as Ness was planned to be replaced in Melee by Lucas, so it could've easily been done in Brawl, especially given that Lucas made it and was a starter.
Ness and also Jigglypuff are not "safe" by any means.
And get over yourself over your stupid vendetta against Sheik. Most of what I've seen is just because she's not Impa.
And of course Sheik got an original moveset while Ganondorf didn't; Ganondorf was not even PLANNED for Melee to begin with, but was included later to essentially beef up the roster by adding "model-swap" characters, that we know today as clones.

So really, it was either Captain Ganon or no Ganon at all until probably Brawl. Pick your poison. (And no, replacing Sheik with Ganondorf in Melee is not an option, nor is removing Sheik or adding Ganondorf as a non-clone. Just those two options, because those were the only options back then.)

But none of this has anything to do with Mewtwo, so go make some Impa thread or some Anti-Shiek thread and make your case there without being completely biased. Maybe then you'll get support.

Thing is: Lucas his game was not released, so Ness wasn't replaced. And Melee was just the second game, so if Ness was cut from it BACK THEN, it wouldn't have been a huge problem. And you'd say Ness and Jigglypuff are less safe than Sheik?

Ganondorf WAS planned for Melee, but they didn't have enough time to make him unique, so they dropped him early on, and then revived the idea when it was noted he could be a C.Falcon clone.

I made an Impa thread. Two times, but this damn server wouldn't keep me logged in so I lost ALL the text I wrote, twice, so I got discouraged...

Anyway, Mewtwo is a boss.

 

[Steelia]

Do you mean in-game? In Black and White, they basically took his sprite from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and animated it...I wish they could have improved on it.

Still way better than his HGSS sprite........
/shudder


Seriously, who in GAME FREAK thought it would be a good idea to go from this



...to this?

I don't think it's just nostalgia telling me the "newer" look for him is abysmal.