Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[ミスティック Speed]

Spoiler

I think this design has the highest chance of getting in Sm4sh.


http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo.324191/page-156#post-17211723

I think this post would like to have a word with you.

^ This would also work.

 

[Naglfarii]

They're pretty much the same... pokemon designs don't change game to game the models just get higher quality

Ps that post is what I'm talking about. It's a good sign he isn't in the poke ball group like I said, and I think he's likely to get in. But seeing mewtwo's shape or whatever looking at greninja is like the people who see jesus in their toast

 

[Masonomace]

Not true. Pokemon designs can change. The trophies in Melee had a design based off their 3D models from the pkemon games Stadium & Stadium 2. Most of the pokemon trophies in Brawl including the same pokemon as cameo appearances from Melee had a exact or similar design to Colosseum & XD, including Battle Revolution.

 

[Naglfarii]

Not true. Pokemon designs can change. The trophies in Melee had a design based off their 3D models from the pkemon games Stadium & Stadium 2. Most of the pokemon trophies in Brawl including the same pokemon as cameo appearances from Melee had a exact or similar design to Colosseum & XD, including Battle Revolution.

Which look the same as those pokemon do in xy now.... All that's changed is the graphics are better and closer to the original designs by sugimori, maybe a bit cleaner

 

[woopyfrood]

Let's look at the Master Ball situation as if Mewtwo was never a playable character:

Isn't it rather odd to announce an item that only summons legendary Pokemon and then not show Mewtwo as one of the summons? Mewtwo is the quintessential legendary.

If Mewtwo had never been playable, his recent relevancy would still have created anticipation, and people would have gone wild after the master ball reveal because Mewtwo was not shown at an obvious time to deconfirm him. I know we look at the situation differently because a playable character getting demoted to an item is unheard of anyway, but Mewtwo being absent from both the roster and an explicit lineup of legendary pokemon would seem nothing short of negligent, and I doubt he would be a stage hazard or boss as Pokemon already has a new stage with legendary Pokemon as stage hazards.

 

[Naglfarii]

He could also be one of the bosses but I do think there's a better chance of him making it in as playable than any other 'newcomer'

 

[woopyfrood]

(Woops, accidental post. Ignore.)

 

[Masonomace]

Good points @ woopyfrood , there's only 13 legendary summons through the Master ball as well currently. Legendary numbers throughout Smash games via pokeball got bigger. More likely to happen this time around.

 

[Rymi]

He could also be one of the bosses but I do think there's a better chance of him making it in as playable than any other 'newcomer'

i dont think sakurai would downgrade mewtwo like that but it is better then not being able to play him/her

 

[ミスティック Speed]

i dont think sakurai would downgrade mewtwo like that but it is better then not being able to play him/her

I disagree. Seeing Mewtwo as a boss would only make things worse if he wasn't playable. It'd be like rubbing it in to the fans who wanted to play as him. I'd rather him be playable, or not be in at all, honestly.

 

[Naglfarii]

I'd hope not. Right now though I do think whatever role he has, if any, is wide open. I still give him a good 60% chance to be playable again though.

I also hope he's faster, better in general

 

[Rymi]

I disagree. Seeing Mewtwo as a boss would only make things worse if he wasn't playable. It'd be like rubbing it in to the fans who wanted to play as him. I'd rather him be playable, or not be in at all, honestly.

i guess your right

 

[Masonomace]

I disagree. Seeing Mewtwo as a boss would only make things worse if he wasn't playable. It'd be like rubbing it in to the fans who wanted to play as him. I'd rather him be playable, or not be in at all, honestly.

What about those fans that would say, "What?! You couldn't put Mewtwo in the game at all?! Not even as a trophy?!"
Hypothetically speaking, if that goes down that way then neither relevancy nor heavy requesting would mean a got-dayum thing.

 

[woopyfrood]

there's only 13 legendary summons through the Master ball as well currently.

I count 18 legendaries on Smashbros-Miiverse, and there are plenty left to include. The list wouldn't be scant if Mewtwo were absent from it...just as long as he's fulfilling a greater role in Smash. Otherwise, there would be no excuse. Or perhaps Sakurai knows how much it would sting to demote him to Pokeball status--to have him visible in gameplay but not playable--, and that is why he was only a trophy in Brawl.

 

[Naglfarii]

Do you guys have any opinion on his move set? I kinda hope he more closely matches the games, fast hard hitting, but light defenses. And have psystrike in there somehow. Seems like all the pokemon except charizard are kinda speedy already though

 

[Wise Multishine]

Do you guys have any opinion on his move set? I kinda hope he more closely matches the games, fast hard hitting, but light defenses. And have psystrike in there somehow. Seems like all the pokemon except charizard are kinda speedy already though

He needs to be heavy-ish, floaty, and most effective at mid range. Those are the main criteria Sakurai should go for.

 

[Naglfarii]

He needs to be heavy, floaty, and most effective at mid range. Those are the main criteria Sakurai should go for.

Why is that? Heavy I especially don't get

 

[Steelia]

Pardon this side tangent, but saw this bit of merchandise recently related to the TCG (World Championships 2014).

On that giant mat in the center, there's a pretty unmistakable silhouette to the right of Pikachu... It may not be as front-and-center as the two Megazards, but it's still nice to see he's included with the bunch.

 

[Wise Multishine]

Well. He needs to be heavier than he is in Melee and Project M, for sure. Floaty because his psychic-ness fits that characteristic. He was in the top 3 floatiest characters in Melee I believe. Mid range also because he is psychic. All of his physical attacks should be used for spacing.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Why is that? Heavy I especially don't get

Because Mewtwo is heavy. Heavier than Charizard.

 

[Naglfarii]

Because Mewtwo is heavy. Heavier than Charizard.

Ok I get floaty and agree on mid range focus, but weight indicates how fast you get killed in smash. It's meaningless in pokemon though, I'd say it makes more sense to look at his stats and play style than something like his weight.

Charizard is semi bulky and not especially fast in pokemon, while mewtwo is blazing fast with poor defenses

 

[woopyfrood]

No one is floatier than Jigglypuff.

 

[Wise Multishine]

Ok I get floaty and agree on mid range focus, but weight indicates how fast you get killed in smash. It's meaningless in pokemon though, I'd say it makes more sense to look at his stats and play style than something like his weight.

Charizard is semi bulky and not especially fast in pokemon, while mewtwo is blazing fast with poor defenses

Well. They represent his fast speed with teleport.

 

[Naglfarii]

Well. They represent his fast speed with teleport.

If that were as good an approach tool as it is in Melee I could buy that but the point is I don't see how heavy and difficult to ko make sense for a character like mewtwo, especially when it'd be offset with lower offensive power

 

[SmashBroski]

Around Ganondorf's weight would be too much for Mewtwo.

What do you think if Mewtwo was around Wario's weight (not literally, but based on his in-game weight value)? How about Luigi/Mario's?

 

[Wise Multishine]

He needs to be heavier. He's way too easy to K.O. in melee. That's my only point. If we're talking Brawl weight, he should be between Samus and Ike. Anywhere in there. Maybe right above R.O.B.

 

[Thereallucario]

He needs to be heavier. He's way too easy to K.O. in melee. That's my only point. If we're talking Brawl weight, he should be between Samus and Ike. Anywhere in there. Maybe right above R.O.B.

I like ike.

That's the weight that would PROBABLY work. Im not all that into competitive play though so I can give noopinions on the matter.

I'll take care of this.

@Con0rrrr

1. Mewtwo was planned to be in Smash 64 and Brawl. King Dedede and Bowser were planned in Smash 64 as well. All three were playable during development, but were cut before release. Mewtwo wasn't present in Brawl as a playable character due to technical difficulties and time restraints.
Link to source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122504575&postcount=428

2. With the release of Pokemon X and Y, his popularity has spiked. He even got new forms. He was also the only Pokemon besides Charizard to get 2 separate forms.

3. There was a recent movie "Genesect and the Legend Awakened" where Mewtwo was a main character. Another recent anime appearance was in "Pokemon Origins" as the last pokemon Red caught. The latter may be a bit too recent to be considered as evidence, though.

4. During an interview involving Pokemon X and Y, someone asked "Is there a possibility that these new forms of Mewtwo will be included in the new Smash Brothers game?" Sakurai was in the audience and replied, after some hesitation, "We are thinking about it." This interview took place after the entire roster had been decided already. Other than this, there hasn't been a single hint of Mewtwo's involvement in Sm4sh.
Full article here: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/mewtwo-may-return-in-next-smash-bros#.U91btPldW3g

5. Mewtwo did not make an appearance in the Greninja trailer as one of the background Pokemon. Surely if Mewtwo wasn't a playable character, he would at least make an appearance in the game in some form. Sakurai has also acknowledged that there are Pokemon in Sm4sh that did not appear in that trailer: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlXkubnAQ

Also relating to the Greninja trailer: Greninja's silhouette was altered during the trailer to deceive viewers. Suspiciously altered to nearly match Mewtwo's anatomy. There's no way to confirm if this was intentional or not. Either way, Sakurai is very much aware of Mewtwo's popularity and doing this was more than likely a tease.

This is the said "Greninja Trailer" if you have not seen it yet:

Spoiler

6. All of Mewtwo's other competition for playable characters have been pretty much eliminated. (further explained in #9) The "6 Pokemon Slots" theory is taken into account here. If there are going to be 6 or more Pokemon characters, Mewtwo's chances can be considered 100%.

7. In a recent popularity poll, Mewtwo was voted #2 in a list of the top 100 Pokemon. Charizard being #1.
Here's a link to the poll: http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon

8. There was also a recent Miiverse poll asking fans what veterans they wanted to return to the next game. These were the results:

Spoiler

9. Mewtwo has little competition outside of the oh-so-relevant Zoroark, the similarly promoted Genesect, and the theorized Grass starter Sceptile. The former two have been shown in trailers and Pokeballs respectively, thus deconfirming them. Sceptile has the "Grass, Water, Fire Theory" going for it plus "Omega Ruby" and "Alpha Sapphire" coming out, but it's a long stretch considering the announcement of those games is fairly recent.


If I missed any good points. Someone feel free to point them out. I will definitely consider adding them to the list.

Mewtwo for Sm4sh!!!

I hope for this post to be moved to the first page. I plan on continually updating it.

To add to this I can also give a bit of a rant on why the last one standing in mewtwo's way (or more like lying down waiting to be finished off) , Sceptile, has his reasons contradicting evidence if you want. But it may not be wanted.

To all of you before we go into the final days:
Its been wonderful. Its only three months but by far this has to be my favorite thread on this whole website. In a way you guys brighten up my day to finally get through it. I've lately had a bit of a depressing moment in my life, but I won't bore you with the details. But the point I'm trying to make out of this is that I think this thread has, in a way, given me peace on the Mewtwo topic. I won't get too mad if Mewtwo is disconfirmed tomorrow, because I know that this thread will feel the pain that I do and on the inside I'll smile knowing that. In the event that he is confirmed tomorrow (or Monday more likely) I'll be way more hype then I ever did before, because I know that this thread will be just if hyped if not more.

So as we go into these final days, i want to thank all of you for keeping my head high and my hopes higher.

Lets all hope that the greatest legendary there is confirmed. For all of us here, and for me.

Here is some awesome music as well

Sad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1dsEAwsIWs&list=UUwZ6uWSeMe3eW44h2DpRlfA

Epic:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H98mjo9V9ow&list=PLC7B68A333255D454&index=13

 

[Masonomace]

@ woopyfrood ahh i just checked that source of the miiverse. My apologies.

Do you guys have any opinion on his move set? I kinda hope he more closely matches the games, fast hard hitting, but light defenses. And have psystrike in there somehow. Seems like all the pokemon except charizard are kinda speedy already though

I don't have much of an opinion for Mewtwo. His PokeDex entry to Smash Brothers is almost unrelated in terms of size & weight. When you make a character like Melee mewtwo have that good of recovery & that light it makes sense. I would like a slight buff to his weight being more, but not more than Charizard, his weight in brawl was up there in the top 5, Mewtwo being top 6 heaviest Sm4sh characters would be quite something. Psystrike would be a smooth move to go for since Shadow Ball has been succeeded by Lucario's Aura Sphere, & while it did look bad on Lucario for that, It would imo look worse for Mewtwo skipping Brawl, & returning back in Brawl's sequal 2 games later from Melee, only to have Shadow Ball again. . .that makes Mewtwo look & feel poor. This is why he NEEDS a re-vamp. Project M is a good reference to look forward to but he'll need more than just a Project M updated move-set for Sm4sh.

 

[Deleted member]

1) Geninja was never seen to spend time upside down. And "DUDE, HE IS A NINJA, NINJA STAYS UPSIDE DOWN!!!!" works exactly as the fact that psichic stays upside down.

This makes no sense whatsoever.
Not only has Greninja hadn't made an appearance in the anime prior to its Smash reveal and X/Y doesn't showcase much of anything in regards to the Pokémon, but the "psychics can float upside down" counterargument is just stretching to form a case.
How often do you ever see a character capable of floating be upside down? Very rarely if at all.
And even though hanging upside down is a common characteristic of fictional ninja, it's actually less "upside down because ninja" and more "upside down because TREE FROG".

2) My point wasn't that in the trailer that was Mewtwo, but Geninja was changed A LITTLE for resemblance Mewtwo.

Which is a flawed point. The only resemblance is the fingers being altered from their usual "froggy" appearance, and said resemblance to Mewtwo is purely coincidental.
Especially since the way Greninja is charging is Water Shuriken (palms flat) does not match how Mewtwo charges the Shadow Ball (palms cupped) and the fact the hands and fingers themselves don't actually match Mewtwo's (not even in Melee), being too wide and flat.
Hell, even the arms are completely different. They aren't gangly and thin.

Comparing these images of Melee Mewtwo:

to the silhouette shows me that people confused Greninja for Mewtwo entirely out of sheer hype blindness as opposed to deliberate guidance to believe it was Mewtwo by Sakurai.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

This makes no sense whatsoever.
Not only has Greninja hadn't made an appearance in the anime prior to its Smash reveal and X/Y doesn't showcase much of anything in regards to the Pokémon, but the "psychics can float upside down" counterargument is just stretching to form a case.
How often do you ever see a character capable of floating be upside down? Very rarely if at all.
And even though hanging upside down is a common characteristic of fictional ninja, it's actually less "upside down because ninja" and more "upside down because TREE FROG".



Which is a flawed point. The only resemblance is the fingers being altered from their usual "froggy" appearance, and said resemblance to Mewtwo is purely coincidental.
Especially since the way Greninja is charging is Water Shuriken (palms flat) does not match how Mewtwo charges the Shadow Ball (palms cupped) and the fact the hands and fingers themselves don't actually match Mewtwo's (not even in Melee), being too wide and flat.
Hell, even the arms are completely different. They aren't gangly and thin.

Comparing these images of Melee Mewtwo:

to the silhouette shows me that people confused Greninja for Mewtwo entirely out of sheer hype blindness as opposed to deliberate guidance to believe it was Mewtwo by Sakurai.

Sakurai obviously knew there'd be people like you to lead those who see Mewtwo astray...it's all part of his plan...that's why he made Greninja the shape he was...
Hehehe.....
hahah...
AHHAHAHAHAHA.....

 

[Masonomace]

To add to this I can also give a bit of a rant on why the last one standing in mewtwo's way (or more like lying down waiting to be finished off) , Sceptile, has his reasons contradicting evidence if you want. But it may not be wanted.

I would love to hear more. Ofc in private messages to me or @ Wise Multishine .

To all of you before we go into the final days:
Its been wonderful. Its only three months but by far this has to be my favorite thread on this whole website. In a way you guys brighten up my day to finally get through it. I've lately had a bit of a depressing moment in my life, but I won't bore you with the details. But the point I'm trying to make out of this is that I think this thread has, in a way, given me peace on the Mewtwo topic. I won't get too mad if Mewtwo is disconfirmed tomorrow, because I know that this thread will feel the pain that I do and on the inside I'll smile knowing that. In the event that he is confirmed tomorrow (or Monday more likely) I'll be way more hype then I ever did before, because I know that this thread will be just if hyped if not more.

So as we go into these final days, i want to thank all of you for keeping my head high and my hopes higher.

Read my signature. And thank you too your company & presence on the Mewtwo forums give me decent (decent for me is good to others) respect. Thanks for Staying!

Hehehe.....
hahah...
AHHAHAHAHAHA.....

I think of Seto Kaiba when you laugh. It pleases my imagination levels.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I would love to hear more. Ofc in private messages to me or @ Wise Multishine .

Read my signature. And thank you too your company & presence on the Mewtwo forums give me decent (decent for me is good to others) respect. Thanks for Staying!

I think of Seto Kaiba when you laugh. It pleases my imagination levels.

I was thinking more along these lines....but ok. xD

 

[Masonomace]

@ ミスティック Speed
Seto Kaiba imagination level de-confirmed.

Albeit that was a tad eerie for me. Reminds me how extremely hype I would feel if we only heard Mewtwo's voice in a blacked-out trailer. (no matter who it is voicing him)

 

[Metros]

Long post ahead.

I know this has probably been brought up already, back a while ago, but I want to point a few things out.

First of all, I strongly believe that Mewtwo will return. That hasn't changed for a while, and the factors for it just keep building over time.

Mew is a confirmed pokeball. You can see her in the trailer. I know this doesn't have as much relevancy considering Mew was a pokeball in Brawl and Mewtwo was a trophy, ;__; but this will be the 3rd time that Mew has returned as a pokeball in the game, so it's a running thing. Look at all the newer pokemon that are out (there's what, over 600 now?) but they are STILL including the old school Pokemon like Mew and Charizard.

As for the Greninja reveal, I believe it was animated that way on purpose. How many people believed it was Mewtwo when they first saw the trailer? LOTS. I didn't think it was Mewtwo, but this wasn't the case for a lot of other people. Look at all the reaction videos on YouTube and the number of people that say they were fooled at first. It was intentional by far because out of all the other ways they could have introduced Greninja to us, that was the way they decided to do it. I don't really buy the whole 'ninja in the shadows' thing because despite being a ninja, Greninja is a frog. Why not animate some super awesome water fight sequence or something? Instead, we see him hanging upside down from a tree, charging up a water shuriken. It resembled Mewtwo in basically every way so no wonder people were fooled. They made it look as epic as possible to make people believe they were seeing something they weren't really seeing, if that makes sense. The webbing in his fingers isn't even there from what I saw, nor is it blacked out by shadow. Because if it is there, it would need to be really far down. Look here, it's right up near the tips

Spoiler

Compared to this? It's gone entirely! And his fingers are nowhere near as rounded as they are in the above picture.

Spoiler

Would you think this was Mewtwo on first glimpse? (I know it's silly for him to hang upside down, but the silhouette is a different story.)

Spoiler

Maybe not, but you have to admit it does look like him there. Greninja's horns look like his ears and his tongue looks kinda like his tail.

Everything we see is clearly intentional. They put thought into this trailer.

Mewtwo will return. Sakurai knows the demand. This has been brought up numerous times before, but remember he didn't have to call out from the audience with 'We're thinking about it!' but he did. Something prompted him to. Mewtwo was only cut from Brawl because of time constraints and the fact his model was glitching out with the SSE. And on top of that, look at all the promotion for Mega Mewtwo Y. She just ups the chances of either Mewtwo getting into the game. We could even get Mega Mewtwo X.

Come on guys. What more evidence is left, apart from the huge list of positive factors that see to Mewtwo's (male or female) return? They've been saving his reveal till very last or as an unlockable or even DLC like he was in Melee. If we don't hear anything even when the game is released we will only have to wait a few hours until people that play it confirm whether or not he's in. And look at Brawl. There were 3 or 4 characters or something that weren't even revealed, they were just found in the game.

There are just too many things going for Mewtwo to not be in Sm4sh. I couldn't fathom why he wouldn't return at this point, but if he doesn't I'll be pretty damn devastated.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I'm tired of seeing people using Greninja's shadow as proof of Mewtwo. It's just our expectations tricking us the first time around. Then people keep pointing out the lack of webbing on the fingers when the rest of his attributes still point towards Greninja.

I want Mewtwo to be in the game. At the same time, I feel like some of the "evidence" posted in this thread is just grasping at straws.

 

[Masonomace]

While the points in favor for Mewtwo look good. The real-time proof that Mewtwo is in the game at all doesn't bode well for him. Sakurai stated in a PotDquote for all the pokemon that was in the / trailer will make some kind of appearance in Super Smash Bros., & Mewtwo wasn't in that.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

While the points in favor for Mewtwo look good. The real-time proof that Mewtwo is in the game at all doesn't bode well for him. Sakurai stated in a PotDquote for all the pokemon that was in the / trailer will make some kind of appearance in Super Smash Bros., & Mewtwo wasn't in that.

Tis a mixed bag. Mewtwo wasn't shown there as a Pokeball....that's a good thing, right?

 

[Wise Multishine]

While the points in favor for Mewtwo look good. The real-time proof that Mewtwo is in the game at all doesn't bode well for him. Sakurai stated in a PotDquote for all the pokemon that was in the / trailer will make some kind of appearance in Super Smash Bros., & Mewtwo wasn't in that.

If he put Mewtwo in that part of the trailer. That would essentially deconfirm him and Sakurai doesn't want that. Because he's a playable character and he wants people to get hyped. He doesn't want people thinking Mewtwo is deconfirmed and possibly affect sales by unintentionally disappointing people. Sakurai loves pleasing his fans.

This is one of those "absence is evidence of later presence" situations.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

While the points in favor for Mewtwo look good. The real-time proof that Mewtwo is in the game at all doesn't bode well for him. Sakurai stated in a PotDquote for all the pokemon that was in the / trailer will make some kind of appearance in Super Smash Bros., & Mewtwo wasn't in that.

Genesect was not in the trailer and he is an assist. The ones who showed up in the trailer aren't the only ones who will make an appearance in the game.

 

[Eisendrachen]

He needs to be heavy-ish, floaty, and most effective at mid range. Those are the main criteria Sakurai should go for.

Fixed. See my previous post regarding how Mewtwo should play.