Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

[Rosalina&Greninja]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

 

[Masonomace]

If we're on that 'Pkmn Contest' topic about Cool Cute Smart Beauty Tough, then.......uhhh yeah idk for the pkmn the SB BB editor has to me for cuteness that could somehow fight are these:yeah yeah only Gen II =(

 

[thebadlamp]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

Mewtwo was planned for every smash game though.
But I can see them being but in as DLC.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

Squirtle and Ivysaur are all but axed now that the Pokémon Trainer is officially axed from the game (it was a huge mistake putting the Trainer in Brawl in the 1st place, since most of the fanbase wanted Charizard to begin with along with Mewtwo, but due to Sonic's late inclusion delaying Brawl, they added in the Trainer as a replacement, with no time left to put in Mewtwo) plus not to mention Charizard and Greninja pretty much stole their spots on the roster, if we get 6 reps again (which is pretty much a given now that the Pokémon Trainer is gone) Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are all but guaranteed at this point we just need to play the waiting game (probably have to wait for whenever the next Smash Direct occurs).

Plus Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't getting any priority whatsoever, since they were mostly in to fill in the Pokémon Trainer's roster (had Sakurai listened to the fanbase more, Charizard would have been on his own rather than being held back by 2 weaker teammates and Mewtwo probably would have been playable), since Sakurai has already mention the O12 won't be cut (thereby Jiggs will return), and that he already mentioned Mewtwo during the Pokémon X & Y Direct at last year's E3.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

Be in the last game make you more likely to be cut. All the cut from Melee was Newcomer in Melee, and I'm sure that all the cut in Smash 4 will be from Brawl. Mewtwo is one of the most requested characters from both Smash and Pokemon fans, and he wasn't in Brawl just for Time Limit (if them would have more times, Mewtwo would being in Brawl) while Ivysaur and Squirtle are request just from some Brawl fans (just like who is requesting Roy). Also, Sakurai want to please the fan in this Smash, infact he add the For Glory Mode, The GC Controller Adaptor, He had removed the tripping ecc. and he knows that the fanbase want Mewtwo back...

 

[Morbi]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

Just like Pichu should have been in Brawl over Pokemon Trainer because he was in Melee? It does not work like that.

 

[Anthinus]

...since Sakurai has already mention the O12 won't be cut

I'd love to read where and when he mention that. I feel like I'm missing something.

 

[Rosalina&Greninja]

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

 

[Swift Fox]

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

Number of slots for new-comers*

It doesn't really matter who is that new-comer and how will they have priority over a veteran, but we'll need good amount of new-comers to keep the next Smash Bros game refresh and different from its previous installments.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

I'd love to read where and when he mention that. I feel like I'm missing something.

I believe it may have been on SmashWiki's page (he did say he wanted to bring back all old Nintendo characters, not sure if it was directly related to the O12 or not).

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

Veterans like Squirtle & Ivysaur shouldn't have any priority whatsoever (since they are on the chopping block now along with the Trainer himself) especially over a popular cut character such as Mewtwo (who's more likely to return), plus Charizard & Greninja literality stole Squritle's & Ivysuar's spots on the roster, Mewtwo and Jiggs have way more priority than the 2 former Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon (even though Jiggs had lower priority in Brawl and was almost cut from the game herself).

 

[Anthinus]

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

"Should" doesn't apply to Sakurai. He takes decisions as he pleases just because. All we can do is just try to guess and hope his decisions matches our expectations.

 

[Masonomace]

Hot damn I'm back and holy hotness @ Anthinus I am loving that signature likes.

Charizard and Greninja pretty much stole their spots on the roster, if we get 6 reps again Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are all but guaranteed at this point we just need to play the waiting game.

I can agree to the PKMN starters dis-continuing the carry-over in the next Smash but I wouldn't say Zard & Greeninja stole their spots they just made them proud moving onto the next. Waiting game feels like a 10-0 MU of patience.

Plus Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't getting any priority whatsoever, since they were mostly in to fill in the Pokémon Trainer's roster (had Sakurai listened to the fanbase more, Charizard would have been on his own rather than being held back by 2 weaker teammates and Mewtwo probably would have been playable), since Sakurai has already mention the O12 won't be cut (thereby Jiggs will return), and that he already mentioned Mewtwo during the Pokémon X & Y Direct at last year's E3.

Agreed however it's ironic that squirtle was considered the best PKMN from the 3 & not Zard as far as their favored MU's went in Brawl.

Jiggs have way more priority than the 2 former Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon (even though Jiggs had lower priority in Brawl and was almost cut from the game herself).

Hmmm...Kind of 2 different answers in one post but I get what you mean . Jiggz was almost cut from Brawl..idk why she would just because of her amazing melee status or something ludicrous but she does have more priority for being in the legendary O12, however that's all I can say for her being more solid of a choice in comparison to PT's Squirtle & Ivysaur due to transformation mid-match a cut mechanic.
@ Anthinus got dayum that Sonic Battle Sig

 

[Steelia]

Hm, not sure if I like the idea of Mewtwo and Ridley being in the same category since I think Mewtwo has a higher chance of being in Smash than the Ridley. I would personally love to play as Ridley but I don't think I've ever read anything regarding Sakurai wanting him to be a PC, plus the whole boss trailer.. which I hope is just a troll tease.

Well, there was this regarding Ridley back in 2008:

Nintendo Power: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?
Sakurai: I think that would probably be impossible. [laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]

And Sakurai'd mentioned something similar for Villager back then too, not wanting to put him in since he saw the Animal Crossing games as so peaceful or something. I think Mewtwo's been one of the only characters called out specifically during the actual production of SSB4, though.

 

[Winchester7314]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

Okay, then lets add Pink Gold Mewtwo.

Couldn't help it.

 

[Masonomace]

Okay, then lets add Pink Gold Mewtwo.

Couldn't help it.

Good Idea it would be his Shiny palette for Sm4sh

 

[Deleted member]

Good Idea it would be his Shiny palette for Sm4sh

Isn't his green team color in Melee already reference to Shiny Mewtwo?

Spoiler

 

[Masonomace]

Isn't his green team color in Melee already reference to Shiny Mewtwo?

Spoiler

I am a failure for being a green lover... truthfully not knowing that even though I love green & chose that palette anyways...I'm gonna find all the green shiny's as a side-objective for today. Back on topic I was kind of adulting around with that post but **** my post now Green ftw.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Let me be the one to take this in a slightly different direction then. Lets say there is six characters for pokemon this time around. The fifth pokemon is conformed as Mewtwo, but they reveal jiggs as a pokeball. Who personally do you think would be the next good representative for the roster BEYOND Sceptile?

I keep saying that Genesect, but his chances are as good as dead since he's a summon. A human makes no sense because why fight with one Pokemon when you can simply make that Mon playable?

The only decently logical choice would be Blaziken.

 

[MasterDoom1666]

Blaziken would be quite unlikely, because the Gen 3 remake probably isn't coming out till after Smash 4.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Blaziken would be quite unlikely, because the Gen 3 remake probably isn't coming out till after Smash 4.

Remember the character locked fact. It would be a long stretch to say that Mega Blaziken was chosen based on concept art.

As unlikely as it is, if a Hoenn rep were coming, logically, Blaziken has the most star power going for it.

 

[Masonomace]

^ @ MasterDoom1666 The whole topic about any Gen. III Pkmn & the starter factor for the pattern's sake, like Blaziken or Sceptile or Swampert being a playable character in Sm4sh is like what @ LIQUID12A said. Sakurai had the roster locked in somewhere in 2012 so Greninja was his final PKMN select candidate that filled in the last open slot. With Hoenn hints / rumors / easter eggs / w.etc., One Hoenn starter will be battling for that other spot...assuming this is still on the topic of @Thereallucario 's quote of Jiggz being a smmon Pokeball.

 

[ORVO5]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

The main essence of the Pokemon Trainer was that they were the original starters. Charizard, with an updated moveset is technically a newcomer and can respectfully represent the same concept, which parallels with the Origins story where Red's starter Pokemon was Charmander and by the time he finished the Pokemon League and caught Mewtwo, his main Pokemon was Charizard with a mega stone, so in a sense, Charizard in SSB4 is an accomplished Pokemon Trainer. Adding in Squirtle and Ivysaur would be unnecessary given all the Pokemon already in the roster. The only thing that makes sense is either a grass Pokemon starter that isn't first gen or Mewtwo. The latter is something Sakurai already said he's considering.

You are thinking of Mewtwo like a newcomer when he isn't.

Newcomers should get priority over some veterans but veterans should get priority over cut veterans.

I disagree. Seniority should get priority over anything. Mewtwo was planned for all three games and he was in the game before Pokemon Trainer. And veterans should get priority over newcomers, if anything. Demand would also play a part in it, and there has been demand for Mewtwo since he was cut. Look how much effort was put into him in Project M. With that said, I leave you with this:

Sakurai said that a Smash Bros. game is defined by the characters on its roster. Without the inclusion of Mario, Kirby, Samus or Link, some would say, "it might not be Smash Bros." What defines the core of Smash Bros., he says, varies from player to player.

"Whether it's a minor character or a character that is one of the most highly skilled and most played," Sakurai said, "if that character is removed from the game, the people who live for that character in Smash Bros. are going to have their feelings hurt.

"I think we have to really consider that, so I take a very serious, hard look at that and have empathy for the players who look for these type of characters when we're making these decisions."

^ @ MasterDoom1666 The whole topic about any Gen. III Pkmn & the starter factor for the pattern's sake, like Blaziken or Sceptile or Swampert being a playable character in Sm4sh is like what @ LIQUID12A said. Sakurai had the roster locked in somewhere in 2012 so Greninja was his final PKMN select candidate that filled in the last open slot. With Hoenn hints / rumors / easter eggs / w.etc., One Hoenn starter will be battling for that other spot...assuming this is still on the topic of @Thereallucario 's quote of Jiggz being a smmon Pokeball.

Is there a source for the 2012 comment? I've always been confused by that seeing as in E3 2013, Sakurai himself said he's considering Mewtwo to be in the game, so the roster must not have been locked.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Wow, lot's of discussion as of late. But I seriously doubt Ivysaur or Squirtle will be returning unless Sakurai decides to do DLC. Mewtwo will be in, he wants his fans satisfied with the roster and they WILL NOT BE if he is not included.

 

[Steelia]

Blaziken would be quite unlikely, because the Gen 3 remake probably isn't coming out till after Smash 4.

Roy was in SSBM, but his game didn't come out until after Melee. There were also Animal Crossing trophies in SSBM, and AC also didn't come out until later on. The biggest mark against Blaziken/Sceptile is that the roster was apparently finalized about two years ago, or whenever development on SSB4 began. Good chance there was a little talk of Hoenn remakes back then, but X & Y were the main focus at that time. Fortunately, Mewtwo and the first ever introduced Mega Evolution (Mega Mewtwo Y) were also a big focus.

 

[AustarusIV]

As much as I like Sceptile, I find it laughable that the Gen III remakes somehow annihilated Mewtwo's chances of getting in.

Because a newcomer who's barely received any advertising push from Game Freak is clearly a shoe-in, whereas the one iconic Pokemon who's beloved around the world is about as likely as Goku or another Sonic character.

 

[Deleted member]

Cameo or not, an appearance is an appearance. Your point is, however, completely valid. Mewtwo is steadily getting more promotion these days, which means that something is forthcoming. It'll transform from cameo(if it happens like you said) to central role of...something.

I would expect more along the lines of being major to the plot of the Mega Evolution specials.
Considering Alain is seeking to defeat every Mega Evolution with his Charizard, and the Mega Mewtwos appear in the intro.

 

[Morbi]

As much as I like Sceptile, I find it laughable that the Gen III remakes somehow annihilated Mewtwo's chances of getting in.

Because a newcomer who's barely received any advertising push from Game Freak is clearly a shoe-in, whereas the one iconic Pokemon who's beloved around the world is about as likely as Goku or another Sonic character.

Mewtwo does not fit the arbitrary fan pattern; in fact, he fits into a pattern of being low-priority. So there is some logical basis to that sentiment.

 

[Anthinus]

I believe it may have been on SmashWiki's page (he did say he wanted to bring back all old Nintendo characters, not sure if it was directly related to the O12 or not).

Sakurai was going to cut Ness for Lucas in Melee, but Mother 3 got delayed so he decided to include Ness again. That way of thinking tells me that Sakurai don't see things the way we do. I think the O12 will be included because of their game style. Not because of being the O12.

I remember about Sakurai talking about old Nintendo characters as you said. I Googled it. He said "I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world". The last part makes me think that he is talking about Nintendo characters in general, not Smash characters.

Hot damn I'm back and holy hotness @ Anthinus I am loving that signature likes.

@ Anthinus got dayum that Sonic Battle Sig

I'm glad you like it. One friend of mine did it for me ages ago.

I love Sonic Battle's art style .

 

[skylanders fan]

I don't think he is coming back, and if we get 6 Pokemon, Squirtle or Ivysaur should be get priority since they were in Brawl.

one question are you crazy or just a big fan of them becuse thats the biggest lie i have heard all day

 

[I_hate_usernames]

There's not going to be a gen lll Pokemon, Sak has said multiple times that the roster was finalized before the game entered production, Greninja was based of the concept art of Pokemon X/Y, the Gen lll remake wasn't even a consideration during that time.
There is no competition between M2 and Secptile/Blazikin!

 

[Winchester7314]

There's not going to be a gen lll Pokemon, Sak has said multiple times that the roster was finalized before the game entered production, Greninja was based of the concept art of Pokemon X/Y, the Gen lll remake wasn't even a consideration during that time.
There is no competition between M2 and Secptile/Blazikin!

this is why I dont like "hypothetical survey questioning", it creates these kinds of discussions

 

[skylanders fan]

this is why I dont like "hypothetical survey questioning", it creates these kinds of discussions

thats kinda like saying if there is another metroid charater thats not ridley in this game or are we not getting one,in the ridley topic its just not right

 

[Morbi]

There's not going to be a gen lll Pokemon, Sak has said multiple times that the roster was finalized before the game entered production, Greninja was based of the concept art of Pokemon X/Y, the Gen lll remake wasn't even a consideration during that time.
There is no competition between M2 and Secptile/Blazikin!

Do you have a source for that assertion? Or are you just making a presumption?

 

[Winchester7314]

Do you have a source for that assertion? Or are you just making a presumption?

He said this during the round table. During the FAQ, someone asked why he felt the desire to add greninja, and he mentioned how the games full roster was decided before development. The roundtable was very private for whatever reason, no videos or pictures(except for nintendo's videos of course) but atendees were allowed to live blog.
Here is NintendoWorlds Live Blog. Go to 8:03 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/37684/super-smash-bros-developer-discussion-live-blog

 

[Morbi]

He said this during the round table. During the FAQ, someone asked why he felt the desire to add greninja, and he mentioned how the games full roster was decided before development. The roundtable was very private for whatever reason, no videos or pictures(except for nintendo's videos of course) but atendees were allowed to live blog.
Here is NintendoWorlds Live Blog. Go to 8:03 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/37684/super-smash-bros-developer-discussion-live-blog

I apologize, I should have been more clear. I was intending to ask about a source pertaining to this assertion:

There's not going to be a gen lll Pokemon, Sak has said multiple times that the roster was finalized before the game entered production, Greninja was based of the concept art of Pokemon X/Y, the Gen lll remake wasn't even a consideration during that time.
There is no competition between M2 and Secptile/Blazikin!

 

[Winchester7314]

I apologize, I should have been more clear. I was intending to ask about a source pertaining to this assertion:

ohhhh, gotcha

 

[Gnarleysquid]

The main essence of the Pokemon Trainer was that they were the original starters. Charizard, with an updated moveset is technically a newcomer and can respectfully represent the same concept, which parallels with the Origins story where Red's starter Pokemon was Charmander and by the time he finished the Pokemon League and caught Mewtwo, his main Pokemon was Charizard with a mega stone, so in a sense, Charizard in SSB4 is an accomplished Pokemon Trainer. Adding in Squirtle and Ivysaur would be unnecessary given all the Pokemon already in the roster. The only thing that makes sense is either a grass Pokemon starter that isn't first gen or Mewtwo. The latter is something Sakurai already said he's considering.


I disagree. Seniority should get priority over anything. Mewtwo was planned for all three games and he was in the game before Pokemon Trainer. And veterans should get priority over newcomers, if anything. Demand would also play a part in it, and there has been demand for Mewtwo since he was cut. Look how much effort was put into him in Project M. With that said, I leave you with this:




Is there a source for the 2012 comment? I've always been confused by that seeing as in E3 2013, Sakurai himself said he's considering Mewtwo to be in the game, so the roster must not have been locked.

He confirmed that the roster was finalized a couple years back – including Greninja's inclusion. To tie in with Mewtwo, if he was still considering characters (which he seems to have been judging by his comments during the X and Y roundtable at E3 2013) he also mentioned that there are characters still being looked at. If that's the case, barring any 'Ultimate Super Smash Bros.'-esque updates, those still being "looked at" could be DLC.

"All of the characters you see here and pretty much all of the characters that we’re still looking at have… were all decided right at the very beginning of development."

To clarify, Mewtwo could have already been in the roster, because the man in the audience asked if Mewtwo's Mega Evolution would be appearing in the new games. At that point, they could have still been debating implementing Mega Evolutions as a Final Smash for some Pokemon participants.

Source: Game Rant

 

[I_hate_usernames]

Do you have a source for that assertion? Or are you just making a presumption?

An educated guess, game design has three stages, pre-production, production, and post-production. If Pokemon X/Y was still in pre-production there would be no chance that Gen lll remakes were on the minds of the development teams.

 

[skylanders fan]

He confirmed that the roster was finalized a couple years back – including Greninja's inclusion. To tie in with Mewtwo, if he was still considering characters (which he seems to have been judging by his comments during the X and Y roundtable at E3 2013) he also mentioned that there are characters still being looked at. If that's the case, barring any 'Ultimate Super Smash Bros.'-esque updates, those still being "looked at" could be DLC.


To clarify, Mewtwo could have already been in the roster, because the man in the audience asked if Mewtwo's Mega Evolution would be appearing in the new games. At that point, they could have still been debating implementing Mega Evolutions as a Final Smash for some Pokemon participants.

Source: Game Rant

that is a good point mewtwo could have however been a later addition but its unlikely after the quetion and answers at e3