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Extreme Freeze Frames - Sakurai's idea of "Making the game slower"?

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
Yuna, please stop whining about every single thing that is different in Brawl. This is a NEW GAME.
Yay, the "lolz it's a new game noob" **** again. It never gets old.

I'm sure Yuna didn't know it was a new game. Thank you for pointing it out to him. His opinion of Brawl should change now that you've educated him.

You already made a thread about this! Its not that big of a deal, god.
It's an old thread, my not-so-smart friend. Also, he is not God.

Oh, and it's very easy to see that you're only 14. The way you speak represents your age perfectly.

On Topic: Easier DI is going to suck IMO, but hey, "it's a new game lol" so I shouldn't complain. I hope in Street Fighter IV, they take away Ryu's Hadouken and give him a gun, let him transform into a wolf, and give him the ability to go Super Saiyan. I'm sure all of the true SF fans won't complain because they'll understand it's a new game like the rest of you geniuses do with Smash.
 

Micheloxx

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
860
Location
Maracaibo, Venezuela
hey ban heim, is understandable that is a nwe game, but hey gonna tell u something, who wants a game that all the things u can do are like thousand times easyer..
umm, slower, more freeze frames, what gonna be now an auto pc lvl M2k. I bet that SF fans get crazy if that happens.. Specially with the supersaiyan thing XD.

Srry my english isnt too good if i got wrong with something..
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
hey ban heim, is understandable that is a nwe game, but hey gonna tell u something, who wants a game that all the things u can do are like thousand times easyer..
umm, slower, more freeze frames, what gonna be now an auto pc lvl M2k. I bet that SF fans get crazy if that happens.. Specially with the supersaiyan thing XD.

Srry my english isnt too good if i got wrong with something..
Your English is decent, but you're not very good at detecting sarcasm.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
the visual effect that this has is awesome, so i can't really agree with you there.

i just wish that people would stop complaining about every little thing they change. so the game has a different pacing. big deal. you're going to have to try harder instead of trouncing novices like you're used to.
 

M.K

Level 55
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,033
Location
North Carolina
I don't see the big deal, it's just ONE MORE THING we need to adapt to. Big deal, if change is your problem, then that's pretty sad.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
Yay, the "lolz it's a new game noob" **** again. It never gets old.

I'm sure Yuna didn't know it was a new game. Thank you for pointing it out to him. His opinion of Brawl should change now that you've educated him.



It's an old thread, my not-so-smart friend. Also, he is not God.

Oh, and it's very easy to see that you're only 14. The way you speak represents your age perfectly.

On Topic: Easier DI is going to suck IMO, but hey, "it's a new game lol" so I shouldn't complain. I hope in Street Fighter IV, they take away Ryu's Hadouken and give him a gun, let him transform into a wolf, and give him the ability to go Super Saiyan. I'm sure all of the true SF fans won't complain because they'll understand it's a new game like the rest of you geniuses do with Smash.
you're not in a position to criticize someone for sounding like a 14-year-old.

you called him your "not-so-smart friend" and told him tried to make a joke about him saying "god."
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
I'll address both of your posts.

i just wish that people would stop complaining about every little thing they change. so the game has a different pacing. big deal. you're going to have to try harder instead of trouncing novices like you're used to.
It's not going to be any harder to kill ****ty players. A new game won't suddenly make them better and make pros suck. That's a fact. They'll still be "trounced" just as hard as before.

you're not in a position to criticize someone for sounding like a 14-year-old.

you called him your "not-so-smart friend" and told him tried to make a joke about him saying "god."
Right, and you're in a position to criticize me? And exactly what did I say that makes me seem like a child? "Oh noes, Banhime is sarcastic, that's childish!" "Oh noes, he makes jokes, only kidz maek jokes!" "Oh noes, he's trying to show how change isn't necessarily good. That's childish."

How about you fix up that second sentence so you don't seem like you're fumbling over your own words, write something coherent, and then come back and we'll talk?

EDIT:
the visual effect that this has is awesome, so i can't really agree with you there.
What can't you agree with? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable just because it looks good? I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say, but the way it works, gameplay/mechanics come before graphics. A game can look like a gem but still be ****ty if the gameplay isn't up to par.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
I'll address both of your posts.



It's not going to be any harder to kill ****ty players. A new game won't suddenly make them better and make pros suck. That's a fact. They'll still be "trounced" just as hard as before.



Right, and you're in a position to criticize me? And exactly what did I say that makes me seem like a child? "Oh noes, Banhime is sarcastic, that's childish!" "Oh noes, he makes jokes, only kidz maek jokes!" "Oh noes, he's trying to show how change isn't necessarily good. That's childish."

How about you fix up that second sentence so you don't seem like you're fumbling over your own words, write something coherent, and then come back and we'll talk?

EDIT:


What can't you agree with? Are you trying to say that it's acceptable just because it looks good? I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say, but the way it works, gameplay/mechanics come before graphics. A game can look like a gem but still be ****ty if the gameplay isn't up to par.
it's not that you make jokes, it's that you make juvenile jokes. case in point, stop saying "oh noes." as for you, my not-so-smart friend, if you can't see why that sounds moronic then i think that fact will speak for itself.

as a side-note, if you don't care about anyone's skill level changing, then why are you complaining about this?
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
didn't see your edit. the thread starter said he thought it looked like **** and i was just disagreeing with that.

i think that gameplay should come first, but this isn't something that's really crippling the entire experience, so i think that it's a welcome addition to the game.
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
it's not that you make jokes, it's that you make juvenile jokes. case in point, stop saying "oh noes." as for you, my not-so-smart friend, if you can't see why that sounds moronic then i think that fact will speak for itself.

as a side-note, if you don't care about anyone's skill level changing, then why are you complaining about this?
First of all, the "oh noes" is meant to represent how a large chunk of the smashboards community talks.

Second, the "not-so-smart friend" comment is just there to watch my own ***. The last time I was too "harsh" by calling a moron...a moron, I got warned for it. So now I have to be a bit more careful just because some **** can't handle an insult. Trust me, if this was a forum where everyone wasn't so PC, I wouldn't use stupid phrases like the one mentioned above.

Third, how is it a juvenile joke? It's a smart-*** joke if anything. It's being nit-picky and a grammar nazi. A juvenile joke is something along the lines of a "knock-knock" or a "yo mamma" joke.

If you can't see how easier DI is going to affect the balance in smash, then you obviously haven't thought about it. Characters with certain skills will have a much better advantage over those who don't. Like it's been stated in another thread, easier DI benefits characters with:

1-Spikes-The spike character can kill his opponent at 0% but the opponent has to work hard to get the enemy to a high percentage to pull off a KO.

2-Shines-This applies to Fox (and maybe other characters with similar abilities) but like above, Fox can just shine you off the stage at a low percentage whereas you have to work to get a KO.

3-Jigglypuff-like characters-Jigglypuff can continuously follow you off the stage, kicking you back further and further until you're unable to recover, but you have to get her to high percentages to kill her because of easier DI.

4-Pikachu's tailspike/similar moves-Same basic thing as the previous 3. He can kill you at a low percentage, but you have to work at getting him to a high percentage.

Basically, by making DI more effective and increasing how long players live, you're giving characters with the ability to perform "cheap" kills an easier time and an upper hand. Balance is what I'm concerned about, not how I'll have to adapt or the fear of some "noob" kicking my ***. Those things never crossed my mind.

didn't see your edit. the thread starter said he thought it looked like **** and i was just disagreeing with that.
Not sure if I missed it, but where exactly did I say it looked like ****? I looked over my post a few times and couldn't find it.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
First of all, the "oh noes" is meant to represent how a large chunk of the smashboards community talks.

Second, the "not-so-smart friend" comment is just there to watch my own ***. The last time I was too "harsh" by calling a moron...a moron, I got warned for it. So now I have to be a bit more careful just because some **** can't handle an insult. Trust me, if this was a forum where everyone wasn't so PC, I wouldn't use stupid phrases like the one mentioned above.

Third, how is it a juvenile joke? It's a smart-*** joke if anything. It's being nit-picky and a grammar nazi. A juvenile joke is something along the lines of a "knock-knock" or a "yo mamma" joke.

If you can't see how easier DI is going to affect the balance in smash, then you obviously haven't thought about it. Characters with certain skills will have a much better advantage over those who don't. Like it's been stated in another thread, easier DI benefits characters with:

1-Spikes-The spike character can kill his opponent at 0% but the opponent has to work hard to get the enemy to a high percentage to pull off a KO.

2-Shines-This applies to Fox (and maybe other characters with similar abilities) but like above, Fox can just shine you off the stage at a low percentage whereas you have to work to get a KO.

3-Jigglypuff-like characters-Jigglypuff can continuously follow you off the stage, kicking you back further and further until you're unable to recover, but you have to get her to high percentages to kill her because of easier DI.

4-Pikachu's tailspike/similar moves-Same basic thing as the previous 3. He can kill you at a low percentage, but you have to work at getting him to a high percentage.



Not sure if I missed it, but where exactly did I say it looked like ****? I looked over my post a few times and couldn't find it.

Sorry. I'm not going to get into rows with you about this stuff. I only said that because you seemed to be attacking someone out of no where, and I frown upon that.

Also, I accidentally said that YOU said the game looked like **** because for a moment I thought you made the thread. I edited after a minute, but I guess you missed it. My mistake.

I will, however, give this rebuttal: If the game played exactly the same as Melee, I wouldn't even bother to pick it up. New characters, items, and stages are, to some people, the main reason to buy the game. But to me, they're afterthoughts.

The game needs to be new in some way. If it has the same physics, strategies, and combo possibilities, then I wouldn't bother picking it up because I've seen it all already in Melee. I like the way the freezeframe thing looks and I'm glad to see it implemented in Brawl. To get good at the game, you'll have to adapt to the new things they've added.
 

watomsk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
33
Location
Saunderstown, Rhode Island
I don't really get it...

Why do people criticize a game that they haven't even played yet (and i am talking about a final version of the game here, not the demo)?

I mean, why don't we just give a Brawl a **** opportunity to be different than Melee in a good way? and if you don't like that's fine, but stop bashing the game unless you have it... That attitude is so noob =( !

And you're making Brawl feel sad ;_; right Brawl?

Brawl: ya T___T...
 

kingjoekur

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
106
Location
OB, NJ and St.kitts,ON
Brawl Tier List-

1. SSB64
2.SSBM

melee was a clone disaster. i do play melee, but my friends and i still have way more fun playin ssb64 its just more fun.

deal with it

(theres more of us out there than u think)
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
Brawl Tier List-

1. SSB64
2.SSBM

melee was a clone disaster. i do play melee, but my friends and i still have way more fun playin ssb64 its just more fun.

deal with it

(theres more of us out there than u think)
Melee was a disaster? Exactly what was wrong with Melee that SSB64 had perfected?

Also, for every one of you that prefers SSB64, 20 prefer Melee. SSB64 is a great game and a classic, no doubt about that, but Melee is so much better over all. More character, more stages, more items, more abilities, better single player, several single player modes, event matches, trophies, records...SSB64 has nothing over it except for that awesome nostalgic effect it seems to have every time I play.
 

WaterToFire

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
89
You know what'd be nice? Multiple speed settings. The only thing they'd have to change is the number of freeze frames per moves, and then everyone could play how they wanted.
 

Saor Gael

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
151
I'm starting to find it amusing how worked up "pros" get about ANY perceived change from Melee. :chuckle:

I think you're overreacting because we've seen only early versions of the game so far.

And you know what? Even if Sakurai WAS pandering to "n00bs", there are way more "n00bs" than professional players. So I guess it's majority rule.
 

Hippochinfat

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
686
BLEH THIS THREAD IS DUMB JUST YOU IDIOTS STATING YOUR OPINIONS AS FACTS AND COMPLAINING ABOUT RANDOM CRAP AND BLOWING STUFF OUT OF PROPORTION BESIDES THIS THREAD IS VERY OLD AND HAS BEEN DEBUNKED LET IT DIE.

I'm tired...
 

Link he come to town...

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
92
Location
Canada (Ontario)
Melee was a disaster? Exactly what was wrong with Melee that SSB64 had perfected?
He said clone disaster which I think means there were way too many clones and they could have had their own movesets, where as everyone in ssb64 had their own moveset.

Anyways, wasn't the largest difference between vets and noobs mindgames? Maybe I'm just blind but that can't be taken away and even if the game is slowed down because of the freeze frames, it will probably be just as effective (minus the fact that you can't wavedash, but there are other ways to pull mindgames.)
 

DraginHikari

Emerald Star Legacy
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NNID
Draginhikari
3DS FC
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SW-7120-1891-0342
This whole thing seems to draw from two distinst fears on all sides really:

1) Fear of change...

2) Fear of the unknown...

But then again this was posted quite some time ago right?
 

jupiter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
165
Location
outerspace
wah wah wah...game looks fine. Complain when the game is out and you had the chance to test out your assumptions.

I was at E-for-All and I'm a competitive player. I tested the game for 4 days (though didn't spend my time writing up reviews for it). The game felt solid.

Actually, the game *IS* pretty much solid.

Look at some footage.

2 videos I took:

Very first game played, just testing stuff out. No skill, really, in this vid. I wanted to test out physics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsiBDV9Xu9c

Higher level of play, though not perfect, and no real skill intended...it was still the first day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83DAiT081m0

**********************
the freeze frames are NOT THAT BAD...it'll be fine.

Don't worry until you had the chance the play the game (like I did). I'm a hardcore smash player, and I'm fine with this.
 

TheMagicalKuja

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
2,079
Location
I'm not telling you psychos
3DS FC
2020-0988-7919
So a lot of people apparentely complained about SSBM being too fast. Obviously, they were newbies and couldn't play the game as fast as the others and thus just whined about it.
You could stand to sound less tourney***gy about it.

Get it straight. Complaining is fine. Talking down these changes as if the people who would benefit from these changes are gibbering morons is downright asinine, idiotic elitism. Cry me a river, build me a bridge and get over it.
 

jupiter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
165
Location
outerspace
On Topic: Easier DI is going to suck IMO, but hey, "it's a new game lol" so I shouldn't complain. I hope in Street Fighter IV, they take away Ryu's Hadouken and give him a gun, let him transform into a wolf, and give him the ability to go Super Saiyan. I'm sure all of the true SF fans won't complain because they'll understand it's a new game like the rest of you geniuses do with Smash.
wow, what an idiot...

comparing a character to a game's engine....do you know what you're comparing?

You're implying that people are complaining a character-specific change, when they're actually complaining about the game's mechanics.

Yeah, the mechanics change, and yeah, it's a new game, buddy. And yes, that means you shouldn't complain. People want little details to remain the same. Oh well, stop crying. It's the next game, and things change.

They didn't change Mario's fireballs to lightning bolts and gave him a polar-bear transformation, complete with an emo-haircut. No, so stop being an idiot and making comparisons like the one you did w/ Ryu.

The changes are in game mechanics.

Just like how they changed a lot from XMen vs StreetFighter -> Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter -> Marvel vs Capcom -> Marvel vs Capcom 2.

Same with Street Fighter II -> Street Fighter III, which was a HUUUUUGE change from the original.

A lot of people b####ed and moaned about the new change and the game wasn't popular when it first came out...then people came around to getting used to it and discovered how much of a great game it really was...

So saying that, "It's a NEW GAME" is a VERY valid argument, because we're reminding you that you shouldn't expect things to remain the same. It's not Smash Melee 2. It's Smash Brawl.

And even if it was Melee 2, improvements and fixes/changes/tweaks are GOING TO BE MADE regardless of how much you punks cry and whine about it.

Stick to Melee if you can't handle reality.


"Oh, and it's very easy to see that you're only 14 9. The way you speak think represents your age perfectly," especially judging by your "critical thinking" skills. Learn to properly compare two things next time. Make sure they are things that are actually comparable. Since you're 9, let me help you understand what I'm talking about: Ryu (and all the absurd changes you are comparing Brawl's mechanics with) isn't comparable to Brawl's game engine/mechanic.

Ryu is an identity that shouldn't change like that...but the game's engine can freely change however the developers want it to. True SF fans won't complain that Street Fighter IV is in 3D, and that the game might be entirely different. But they will complain if Ryu isn't Ryu anymore.

Just like how true Smash fans won't complain if Brawl takes a different direction in some of the mechanics because, yeah, it's a NEW game. Changes should be expected and looked at in a positive way. However, I'm sure everyone would (and should) complain if Mario no longer has fireballs; if Marth was included, but had a dagger and a boxing glove instead; if the characters (like in your Ryu comparison) were taken apart and redone to represent an abomination. Then, YEAH, you can't say, "it's a new game." Deal with it.

I hope I was able to dismantle my thoughts into something simpler for a 9 year old reader.
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
Bla, bla, bla...words...
Man, I read your first post and thought to myself, "hey, he seems like a pretty smart guy...he showed some cool videos, gave first hand impressions of Brawl, and basically summarized everything in an intelligent manner and brough back some of my faith in Brawl." Then I read your second one and thought, "man, what an ***, spewing out random ****...credibility down by a few notches."

If you want me to take you seriously, do what you did in your first post and what most of the other people who've argued with me have done and you know...try to say something smart. Your first post was awesome, your second one not so much. I'm not going to bother reading a post when 99% of it is an insult (the fact that I'm fairly defensive probably biases my opinion, but meh). At least most of my posts have a point other than "you're stupid, shut up." And for the 1% of your post that isn't complete ****, yeah you shouldn't expect Melee 2.0, but you shouldn't expect a crappier game than Melee. Read the red text if you want to see what I mean and what I'm really afraid of.

Why did I insult that little kid? He didn't say anything intelligent, didn't offer anything that could be discussed. All he said was, "it's a new game" and that is not a valid argument whether you think so or not. It's like when your parents tell you that you're forbidden to do something and when you ask them why, all they say is, "because."

If you'd have read some of my posts up until now, you'd realize that I'm a very sarcastic guy. My comparison of SF was drastic, yeah, but it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Instead, think about what I'm trying to say. Just because it's a new game doesn't mean that everything about it should be changed. I understand people want a new game. That's cool, I do too, but in no way do I want a watered down version. My argument is that Brawl seems very watered down and simplified. I don't say that because I want to be able to practice for hours, perfecting a skill just so I can be good, but because I want a game that's going to offer me something more than a typical fighter does. I'm not sure if you've played Super Mario Galaxy yet, but that game had great potential but it's not nearly as good as it could have been because it's way too simple and easy.

My fear isn't about Brawl being a new game and me not being able to adapt to the change. I was able to transition from SSB64 to Melee with almost no difficulty. My fear is that the game is going to lose its appeal by being way too simple, just like SMG did. Nintendo is catering to the casual market and that's fine. I don't care about that. But just because they're catering to the casuals doesn't mean they have to make the game simple. Like I've mentioned before, I'm a casual gamer. I go to college, work as much as I can, and spend a large majority of my free time with my girlfriend and friends, and even though I don't have much time to play games anymore, I still want something fun, deep, and challenging when I actually sit down to play. SMG disappointed me in this aspect and it made me think that Brawl would do the same (yeah, they're different games, but they're both Nintendo titles and nothing that has been released on the Wii to this point has been fun or challenging).

And no stupid, change shouldn't be happily welcomed. You have to be skeptical of change. That's exactly why when someone comes out with a cure for something, it undergoes massive testing to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. Nobody just happily accepts it with high hopes and ignores any possible negative outcomes. For a drastic example of how something like this can happen, go watch I am Legend (yeah, it's a movie, but you get the point).

BLEH THIS THREAD IS DUMB JUST YOU IDIOTS STATING YOUR OPINIONS AS FACTS AND COMPLAINING ABOUT RANDOM CRAP AND BLOWING STUFF OUT OF PROPORTION BESIDES THIS THREAD IS VERY OLD AND HAS BEEN DEBUNKED LET IT DIE.
How has it been debunked? Do you even know what "debunked" means? If this is how you post in a thread that's meant to be discussed with some amount of intelligence, then it's no wonder why you got banned.

Anyways, wasn't the largest difference between vets and noobs mindgames? Maybe I'm just blind but that can't be taken away and even if the game is slowed down because of the freeze frames, it will probably be just as effective (minus the fact that you can't wavedash, but there are other ways to pull mindgames.)
The issue isn't the gap between vets and noobs. The skill gap will still remain. It's balance. Balance issues are what I'm afraid of. Balanced games are more fun than their unbalanced counterparts, right? We don't want 90% of the players using the same super-powered character.

i dont care, not until i ahve played the game, this isnt SSBM, this is a NEW game.
Again, the most solid argument there is. How can I argue with something like this?
 

Tony_

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
793
Location
Great Falls, Montana
I hope you all realize that Smash is going back to its roots like it should be. Its never to be as fast as melee again.

tl;dr, KNOW YOUR ROOTS
 

Mario77

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
186
I just wanna say, this is honestly the last thing I could care about, I mean there is no way a bit more freeze frames can ruin the game. Being able to DI easier and survive longer? Thats only a good thing... and since both players have access to it, its still fair.
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
I just wanna say, this is honestly the last thing I could care about, I mean there is no way a bit more freeze frames can ruin the game. Being able to DI easier and survive longer? Thats only a good thing... and since both players have access to it, its still fair.
That's exactly right, but what happens when both characters can DI just as well but one is able to spike the enemy at low percentages where DI doesn't matter? Here's a quote from another thread that tries to explain why DI affects balance:

A character like Falco (if he was in Brawl) would be very tough to beat. His recovery is mediocre, but with good DI, that doesn't matter. He can still live for a long time and he can kill quickly and at low percentages with his spike.
Anyways, I'm done with these kinds of threads I guess. I'm really, really tired of typing up long posts and wasting time doing so.
 

TheLongestShizzle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
11
I played N64 smash a lot until Melee came out

I played Melee even more, and I can call myself a hardcore smash player

So yeah if they change the fighting too much from melee I will be disappointed, I don't even like thinking about it

But honostly, being the true hardcore smsh player I am, I will adapt and whoop you all when it comes out either way =P
 

jupiter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
165
Location
outerspace
stylized benches begin their crusade into quivering flans of eternity
(i read your entire post)

You know, after reading your post, I've come to understand on a deeper level what is really is that people like you are afraid of.

You, unlike the kids around this site, actually drew out your ideas and spread them out so that the rest of us can understand what it is you're trying to say when you say, "this game probably won't have depth/this game is too noob friendly/etc."

It's not that you're afraid of noobs being able to reach "a level of play" as the "pros" that bothers you (like so many kids lead us to believe when they complain), it's the idea that the game will be too easy, and therefore, kind of boring, to play.

When you compared it to SuperMarioGalaxy (i haven't played it...but i really want to), and mentioned how much easier the game is, you allowed me to see what exactly you meant by "too easy." It's easy to mistake that phrase ("too easy") for many different things. I have Mario 64 and remember how challenging the game was, and if Mario Galaxy is easier and not as challenging as you say, then I'm gonna be one disappointed little boy...

Yeah, I was at first afraid that the game will be too bland and too simple to play, especially when Sakurai said that he wanted to "stress the overall easiness" of the game. Actually, I probably felt just like you do now. I thought to myself, "oh no...it's gonna be too simple, there isn't going to be all these layers of "gameplay" that goes into a match, there won't be as many variables as there are in Melee, it's just going to be a clean-cut 'paper-rock-scissor' kind of game where there's not much else but 'shield-A-grab-B-and-smash-attacks', this is scary."

But then, I kind of looked at it in a positive way. And I didn't mean that "change should be happily welcomed." I meant that we shouldn't be pessimistic about it. Sakurai is making the game, not "Nintendo." Sakurai should know what he's doing, especially after witnessing the massive success of Melee.

I know he wants to allow the beginners to be more comfortable with the skills that were apparently present in Melee by making some/most of those skills (if not ALL those skills) easily executable by beginners (i.e. sweetspot, l-cancel, air-dodge no longer being your last command in the air, etc). But at the same time, I'm being optimistic about it.

From this new system of mechanics, a new set of unknown skills could arise from it and I'm sure we'll get some form of "melee-like techniques" where we don't discover until months or even a year or years from now.

Like you, I don't have much time to play videogames, only late at night. I've just graduated from my university and have 2 jobs (substitute teacher and afterschool tutor) so I work from 7am-9pm monday-friday. On top of that, I have a few friends I like to hang out with (a lot), and as much as I want a girlfriend again, I don't have time for one like I did (and had) before I graduated. And likewise, I want something solid, fun, deep, challenging, and LONG to play on my free days, or on those days I don't have to substitute or tutor. So I sympathize with you.

Referring to what's on topic, the freeze-frame issue is very negligible. My videos you saw from my visit to E4A proved that we really have nothing to worry about when it comes to "freeze-frames".

But I feel you (now) on the fear of simplicity to the point where you go, "what ever happened to challenging, delicious games?!?!!" But I really hope you become a little more optimistic, if not from my videos, at least from my own personal experience with the game, however short my experiences were.

This fear you have is something I've felt with many games in the past (Megaman X games stand out most in my memory) and the ones coming out (Resident Evil, Super Mario Galaxy [which is now confirmed by you], Zelda, etc). You know, a smash buddy and I were playing Super Mario Bros 3 on the virtual console the other day and we talked about how it's so sad that the games out today are sooooo noob friendly that it has sucked out all the fun and challenge from them, unlike the ones we grew up with like those old Mario games. We joked saying that if games ever came out with the kind of difficulty and challenge that the games were made with back then, it would get bad ratings for its difficulty and people would complain about it.

But...somehow I don't feel this way about Brawl...maybe I'm being naive...but I just don't have a feeling that Brawl will disappoint us. Given that there's no wave-dashing and it seems a lot simpler, I don't have a fear that the game will be shallow and lack any depth. I don't have a fear that the engine will make me bored of playing it wishing it was Melee part 2. I have faith, and even more after playing it at E-4-All.

I hope you and other people feel this way after the game is out, that's all.
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
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You know, a smash buddy and I were playing Super Mario Bros 3 on the virtual console the other day and we talked about how it's so sad that the games out today are sooooo noob friendly that it has sucked out all the fun and challenge from the games we grew up with like those old Mario games.
I've been having the same kinds of thoughts recently. Mario games are so easy compared to how they were before. I have Mario 64 on my Wii. My 5 year old brother played it and could get about a dozen stars (if that) before getting stuck. With SMG, he's gotten over 70 so far with little difficulty.

But yeah, you have instilled some faith in me. I'm still somewhat skeptical and I can't help that part of myself, but I do believe it'll turn out alright. After all, if a good smasher played it and enjoyed it, how can I still be pessimistic?
 

jupiter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
165
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outerspace
But yeah, you have instilled some faith in me. I'm still somewhat skeptical and I can't help that part of myself, but I do believe it'll turn out alright. After all, if a good smasher played it and enjoyed it, how can I still be pessimistic?
Galaxy sounds disappointing, especially after hearing Fils-Aime saying, "finally, the true successor to Super Mario 64!" When he said that, i got really excited. I'm sure the game is still fun, just not as rewarding as 64 was.

I'm sorry I insulted you earlier. I get so caught up with the mindless dolls running around squawking the same things over and over, that it gets hard to tell which ones are idiots, and which ones are actual people making their points valid and have intelligent opinions. I'm not excusing myself, but I'm apologizing. ;)

Let's look forward to a beautiful game! It's less than 2 months away, so long as we don't get another delay. In which case, it had better be to add more depth whether it already has plenty of it or not!
 

The Hypnotist

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,435
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Pinole, California (The Bay Area)
Doing what I mentioned doing (going easy on people) is called "sandbagging". If you pound the snot out of people every game, watch how long it takes for them to get fed up and never play against you ever again (hint: not very long).
He's right, I'm not even that good. But unless I'm playing with other competitive people I won't play as Peach, or else. When I play with the ICs their jaws drop. I usually play my terrible young link, G&W or Marth with one hand. And I still usually win. Or I play with who I want but always let them pick the (legal) stage.
 

FerretStyle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
83
I have a feeling this is to make the online play smoother. It has nothing to do with "THE NOOBS".

But it does suck. And................ oh well. Guess you can't have everything.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
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Jun 5, 2007
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Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
First of all, it's called hitstun.

Second, only the attack and the person/thing that was hit stop moving for the set frames, not the whole game.

Third, this just allows DI to be taken to a whole new level. You will still not be able to perfect SDI moves. You may be able to SDI all the moves, but not perfect SDI, so it's not like this makes training your DI obsolete.

Also, the difference was not that obvious in the videos of the Demo, and it most certainly didn't look "ugly." What you say about it being easier to combo someone also goes the opposite way- it's easier to escape combos.
 

SmashWolf

Smash Journeyman
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Real skilled players will win over less skilled ones anyway. A skilled player should be able to win even with the basics alone. No need to worry if a few advanced tricks/exploits got removed. If you really are skilled, you should be able to easily win anyways. And it gives less skilled players a tiny extra advantage, and you should see that as something positive. Yay, better competition!
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
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Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
Real skilled players will win over less skilled ones anyway. A skilled player should be able to win even with the basics alone. No need to worry if a few advanced tricks/exploits got removed. If you really are skilled, you should be able to easily win anyways. And it gives less skilled players a tiny extra advantage, and you should see that as something positive. Yay, better competition!
OMG

No comment.
 

Mr. M

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
306
Location
Pensacola, FL Wargh! King Dedede, how dare you be
Real skilled players will win over less skilled ones anyway. A skilled player should be able to win even with the basics alone. No need to worry if a few advanced tricks/exploits got removed. If you really are skilled, you should be able to easily win anyways. And it gives less skilled players a tiny extra advantage, and you should see that as something positive. Yay, better competition!

Better competition? In my PSU Brawl? Not on my watch. :p


Yuna is clearly afraid of this new found competition. Dumbing down a game in order to meet more people's satisfaction. How dare they! How dare they make a game more accessible in order to get more money off of it and entertain a much larger crowd then the tourny***s.

Oh and, if you fail to see that as sarcasm, it's time to go outside and get some fresh air.
 

Ban Heim

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
642
Location
Chicago
Galaxy sounds disappointing, especially after hearing Fils-Aime saying, "finally, the true successor to Super Mario 64!" When he said that, i got really excited. I'm sure the game is still fun, just not as rewarding as 64 was.

I'm sorry I insulted you earlier. I get so caught up with the mindless dolls running around squawking the same things over and over, that it gets hard to tell which ones are idiots, and which ones are actual people making their points valid and have intelligent opinions. I'm not excusing myself, but I'm apologizing. ;)

Let's look forward to a beautiful game! It's less than 2 months away, so long as we don't get another delay. In which case, it had better be to add more depth whether it already has plenty of it or not!
Galaxy is still a good game and it's definitely worth getting. Some of the stages can be somewhat tough when you play with the daredevil comets (you'll learn about those once you get the game).

Buy yeah, don't worry about the insults. No hard feelings, and I'm sorry if I said anything to offend you as well. I understand how frustrating it can be on the forums sometimes.

How dare they make a game more accessible in order to get more money off of it and entertain a much larger crowd then the tourny***s.
Man, and the casuals wonder why the pros dislike them.

I'd like to coin a new term. I'll call it casual***. It's basically any casual who thinks they're the **** when they call people who happen to be more skilled than them tourney***s.

So shut up, casual***.

Oh, and for the record, dumbing a game down doesn't increase anyone's satisfaction except those who truly cannot understand how to play it. In the case of SSB64 and Melee, this is unnecessary since both games are very easy to get into and understand.
 
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