Saw those matches, and I honestly don't think he matches up to some of the american Sami, prove me wrong though and own PL, ill be right there with ya
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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
.tea©
Smash Journeyman
I totally agree.
It seems like PL doesn't do a lot of stuff that makes Samus able to compete in the current metagame. But seeing international players at APEX is really interesting anyways, at least for me. 
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Nobody mentioned Knut's pool? <__<
ycz12
Smash Ace
It was our first time teaming, and I killed myself twice at the start of the last match. No johns though, we def could've won that.
BTW here is my match against Darc from the same tournament: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zioc9DNMq_E
I felt super helpless in this match. It just seemed like nothing I did would ever work; I couldn't get away from him to start spacing with tilts and missiles, my ledge-get-up tactics all just got stuffed, and I couldn't punish anything he did. Help? Are you there Plup? I hear you are good at this matchup.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I have played against a lot of Jiggs (Mahone, Fortune, AnandOza, Private O'Malley, etc.), so I think I have a bit of experience in this MU. IMO, the best way to describe this MU is unstable. Sometimes, it seems like the MU is not that bad. Jiggs is kinda slow and with good plat mobility, Samus can kinda run circles around her on larger stages, and she can kill her early on the smaller ones with the right reads. Other times, this MU feels atrocious! Like...I can't do anything. I can't recover, I can't hit her, and sometimes I can't even move. I'm certain that Plup could definitely give much better input on your match, but I could possibly also give you some tips after I get back from work, if you don't mind.
I'm certain that Plup could definitely give much better input on your match, but I could possibly also give you some tips after I get back from work, if you don't mind.
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I agree with Bubbaking. I can beat the local puff 3-0 with 2-3 stocks each, then lose to him the other week. The way I play the match up depends a lot on our charge shot with is a VERY great move in this match up in my opinion. Puff moves up and down very slowly, so she's easier to hit than most characters, plus it kills her early. It's pretty easy to charge too. Save it for her higher percentages.
Remember also that every % you give her means a lot, so play patiently.
Remember also that every % you give her means a lot, so play patiently.
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Lol dude, its Darc... I did just as well against him the first time I played him. But he is a rather aggressive puff. Although both bubba and jerk both said nothing that you couldnt already find on a guide, its just a weird MU that you need to practice and understand the limitations of jigs movement. Another major thing in that MU is the proper way to DI (down and away, because jigs has a very difficult time continuing combos going downward. (And of course all the obvious things, dont dash attack puffs shield, and almost all improperly spaced attacks, can be rested). Its a bad MU for samus and he normally wins the MM tourneys anyway. There is one match actually on youtube of darc vs plup, and the key to the Match is basically throwing charge shots out like candy on halloween and just reading jig's jumps, and if she air dodges it, you get a free punish.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
I'd also recommend learning to charge cancel (B>press L to cancel a few frames later)
Not just learning the technique but knowing how soon you have to pull out of the charge, because there is lag. Learn the timing so that you don't have to shield - you're already miles away from jigz
I dropped that knowledge bomb in case anyone didn't see the matches already. I hope he does well, but I hope most of all those matches are recorded ; )
Not just learning the technique but knowing how soon you have to pull out of the charge, because there is lag. Learn the timing so that you don't have to shield - you're already miles away from jigz
I dropped that knowledge bomb in case anyone didn't see the matches already. I hope he does well, but I hope most of all those matches are recorded ; )
ycz12
Smash Ace
I'm confused. What's the purpose of this? As a fakeout? It seems like just not charging.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
You charge as much as possible and then when jigz gets too close, you cancel and wavedash away. The fastest time you can charge cancel is a few frames after you press B. Charge shot is super important in this MU so you have to be macro-managing it as much as possible
Mano, you know YCZ is a much better samus right?
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
...Argue about the idea KLit, not about the player.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
Plup was playing out of his mind this game...and the innovation, CC bomb anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7YO7QrhAS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7YO7QrhAS0
Phonz
Smash Cadet
what do you guys think is the best way to SHFFMC? Also is it really worth it? As in will learning it make certain matchups a little more favorable? Thanls in advance
There are already plenty of threads on this board discussing it, this place is for general discussion. But to answer you quickly, practice practice practice, yes, and yes.
Pluplue
Smash Ace
@ycz Samus' short hop es naice in the Jigglez match-up. When they turn on the "I'm gonna back air until it hits you" mode just stay mobile as **** because the back air is un punishable on shield. Lot's of dash dancing/wavedashing into nairs is a great answer to "the wall". Samus is faster than puff so if you keep mobile like that then they can't perfectly space bairs vs you and it's usually a nair trade or your nair just beats em out. At this point hbox probably thinks "Fine I'll just short hop bair you" and my answer to this is "****." Whenever they start the short hop bairs I usually try to catch em with an up tilt or forward tilt but the match-up get's a lot harder when they start doin' that.
Gotta emphasize the importance of always wavedashing/dashdancing, if they get you stuck in shield then you'll feel like the matchup is unwinnable. Also something I didn't mention is that controlling center stage is mega important. It's probably obvious but you can't really move around if you're pushed to the edge of the stage. And like peeps said earlier it's easy to get a charge shot after you knock her away at high percents so why not spam that ****.
Gotta emphasize the importance of always wavedashing/dashdancing, if they get you stuck in shield then you'll feel like the matchup is unwinnable. Also something I didn't mention is that controlling center stage is mega important. It's probably obvious but you can't really move around if you're pushed to the edge of the stage. And like peeps said earlier it's easy to get a charge shot after you knock her away at high percents so why not spam that ****.
Mars-
Smash Champion
Learn to do the platform MC on pokemon/yoshis first
Then learn how to full jump double missile
The learn to Double jump MC on battlefield and dreamland
Then learn the SH homing missile cancel on battlefield
Then if you mastered all of these learn the SHFFMC. It's a good move but it's way to difficult vs the payoff compared to all these previously mentioned missile cancels.
Phonz
Smash Cadet
Ok thanks for the answer, but could you provide an example of the SH homing missile on battlefield I've never heard of it as a special kind of missile cancel like the others, unless of course you mean normal short hop homing missiles, but i dont think you do lol. Also I've been able to do the pokemon/yoshi's ones and the doublejump ones pretty consistently but i always have trouble doing the full hop double missiles do you or anyone else have any advice on that. Much appreciated
side note i like your sig lol
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ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
There was a video that someone linked a long while back of ESAM doing it, I believe it was an Apex2013 vid? Hopefully someone can fill you in.
Imo, sh homing on battlefield isn't the be all end all missle technique - a perfect dj homing missile is almost, if not just as fast as sh homer. But if you want to keep your doublejump that badly as you keep your enemy at bay by all means.
For the double fullhop missiles practice on FD (you can do it anywhere where a platform isn't obscuring your jump) and get the motion of literally sliding your thumb from Y --> B, while smashing the control stick left/right at rougly the same time. For me, all of that is one fluid motion - so it'd be like Y,slide B+right, all in less than a second.
My personal advice, get used to spamming missles yeah, but make sure to stick in some drop platform nairs, waveland off platform --> missiles. You gotta change up the MCs according to how the enemy is playing. try some edgehop --> homer/super, a neat way to get back on stage. MC possibilities are limitless : D
Imo, sh homing on battlefield isn't the be all end all missle technique - a perfect dj homing missile is almost, if not just as fast as sh homer. But if you want to keep your doublejump that badly as you keep your enemy at bay by all means.
For the double fullhop missiles practice on FD (you can do it anywhere where a platform isn't obscuring your jump) and get the motion of literally sliding your thumb from Y --> B, while smashing the control stick left/right at rougly the same time. For me, all of that is one fluid motion - so it'd be like Y,slide B+right, all in less than a second.
My personal advice, get used to spamming missles yeah, but make sure to stick in some drop platform nairs, waveland off platform --> missiles. You gotta change up the MCs according to how the enemy is playing. try some edgehop --> homer/super, a neat way to get back on stage. MC possibilities are limitless : D
Phonz
Smash Cadet
Ok thanks for that your reply was really helpful.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Not necessarily missile talk, but related, I think something should be said for how quickly Samus' DJ allows her to navigate plats. I never really thought about it much until recently when I was watching Plup do it in a match. I know getting hit out of a DJ is terrible business, but Samus is sooo FAST with a DJ. For instance, the waveland off MC on Yoshi's and PS can be done with a single jump, but it's so much faster with a DJ.
#RandomRambling
I am in the process of acquiring a solid secondary to use competitively. I've been entertaining the idea of using Sheik and Peach (leaning more towards Peach because of a lot of similarities between her and Samus), but I'm not opposed to trying out others. Who do you think compliments Samus and her MUs well?
#RandomRambling
I am in the process of acquiring a solid secondary to use competitively. I've been entertaining the idea of using Sheik and Peach (leaning more towards Peach because of a lot of similarities between her and Samus), but I'm not opposed to trying out others. Who do you think compliments Samus and her MUs well?
I don't think that's true at all. Granted, good players generally know more than most, but that doesn't disqualify good information. For example, I've managed to give Darrell good advice in specific areas that he actually used and thanked me for. If someone didn't want to receive advice from other Sami he deemed 'beneath him', then he wouldn't ask on the boards. I say just let the people share what they have and whoever's asking can decide what's useful to him. If a question is directed at a specific person, there are PMs and wall conversations on top of other avenues of communication outside of SWF.
Phonz
Smash Cadet
I do see the similarities between Peach and Samus, however I don't really think she would compliment Samus' poorer match ups like Marth, Jiggs, and Shiek. I personally think Marth would be a better character to pick up because he has similar ground mobility and he'll be able to have you focus more on and become better at spacing which in the end will be a better addition to your Samus than Peach. Although I'm not too sure on Peach's match ups, I think she has similar match ups to Samus just with more options. That's just my two cents, there's always the option for a pocket spacie lol
I'd like to know more about the SHMC on Battlefield. I've never heard of it. Is it to the highest platform?
I play Sheik as my secondary. Her jump timing is the same as Samus', so I don't have to adjust the timing of my aerials/wavedashes OoS. She has a positive match up vs Falcon, Peach and Marth. Much less of an advantage in PAL though. Her match up vs Puff is really underrated too (still in Puff's favour).
I play Sheik as my secondary. Her jump timing is the same as Samus', so I don't have to adjust the timing of my aerials/wavedashes OoS. She has a positive match up vs Falcon, Peach and Marth. Much less of an advantage in PAL though. Her match up vs Puff is really underrated too (still in Puff's favour).
Renth
Smash Hero
Just going to throw this out here for those who don't know.
BubbaKing is the most ignored person on the entire website (ignore list you can't see their posts) So keep that in mind before you take what he says seriously.
BubbaKing is the most ignored person on the entire website (ignore list you can't see their posts) So keep that in mind before you take what he says seriously.
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
On one of the side platforms on BF, SH homer. The timing is tight, the only way I've gotten it to work was to slide my thumb down like in a DMFH, but you can't mash the stick right/left, you gotta tilt it. It's really tough, questionable as to whether it's worth it to learn.
As for secondaries, I can't help you there Bubbaking. I mean, I 2ndary G&W ffs, lol
I will vouch for Jerk's Sheik recommendation though, a competitive secondary has only one purpose - to help you with your main's bad matchups. Sheik does that, and more
Bubba... seriously can you read? "yeah... but better players rarely take advice from individuals at a lower skill level... and this is for a reason..." I wouldn't say you are at a low skill level first off, maybe mid to low, second, you just agreed with what I was saying while at the same time chastising me for what I said... get your **** straight and think before you post....
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
If you guys need to see some of those SH homers on Battlefield, watch ESAM v Bladewise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvV8qKvdu4Y
Time is 1:02:00 I believe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvV8qKvdu4Y
Time is 1:02:00 I believe
Phonz
Smash Cadet
yea the match starts at 1:03:00
but yea SH homing missiles look really good does anyone know how strict the timing on doing them is?
but yea SH homing missiles look really good does anyone know how strict the timing on doing them is?
ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
I've only ever had tried it in a few sessions but I remember having success by sliding my finger Y-->B as i tilted my stick left/right. It's harder then it sounds. But someone whose done it more should chime in
EDIT: It's not like the FHDM where you can just slide it with as much pressure as you want, you are short hopping so it takes a lot of muscle memory to do it as well as ESAM
EDIT: It's not like the FHDM where you can just slide it with as much pressure as you want, you are short hopping so it takes a lot of muscle memory to do it as well as ESAM
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ManoxMano
Smash Journeyman
To perfect this tech, is it more about when you put in the inputs, or is it more about doing them as fast as possible? Any special things you are doing with your hands or is it just soft-Y --> down -->rightB
My tech sessions are getting a little stale and I should really get this tech down since it's so useful
It really took a lot of experimentation to get this down, but THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is the timing to fast fast, the best way imo to get the feel for this, is to first go to dreamland, run off the platform (since the lower ones are the highest lower level platforms), then once you have run off the platform, fast fall and do a smash missile. This will be pretty easy but till take you a few times to get the hang of, then go to battlefield because the lower platforms are slightly lower than dreamlands and repeat. Finally got to pokemon stadium or yoshis for the lowest platforms to practice on. After you can do all of that, shffmc's will be a breeze
and as for the actual movement of your control stick, you dont actually want to press down and then go to the direction you want, you want to slightly tilt the control stick downward at the first frame you can fast fall, and then jam your control stick in the direction you want to missile. It should all be one fluid motion otherwise it is way too difficult to do in a practical application.
zDuck
Smash Journeyman
KLit you may have single handedly killed the samus boards lol, you should go see a psychiatrist or something
Mars-
Smash Champion
Yup lol
.tea©
Smash Journeyman
Exactly my thoughts. Thanks Duck.