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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

What are your favorite moves?


  • Total voters
    518

Phonz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
66
Location
Orlando, Florida
i just waveland onto platforms i feel like it keeps me on the move better and faster.

i dont really listen to music while playing, i prefer to listen to the game's music and sounds.
 
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JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
I can Uair to platforms consistently, but I haven't learned to implement it into my game yet.
 

Jagoffian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
208
Location
Orange County, CA
I listened to a lot of Melt-Banana yesterday (first time listening to music while playing matches, actually) and I could notice my play improving, lol. Definitely gonna do it more often.
 

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
I'm strongly considering changing my main to Samus due to the spacie and Sheik overpopulation in my region. I just want to start by asking a basic question:

Is it necessary to learn how to super wavedash and extended grapple? After watching some videos of Plup and Darrell, I haven't seen them use it once. (But of course I haven't seen enough, lol.)
 

Jagoffian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
208
Location
Orange County, CA
I'm strongly considering changing my main to Samus due to the spacie and Sheik overpopulation in my region. I just want to start by asking a basic question:

Is it necessary to learn how to super wavedash and extended grapple? After watching some videos of Plup and Darrell, I haven't seen them use it once. (But of course I haven't seen enough, lol.)
Welcome!

SWD isn't all that practical apart from certain edgeguarding situations (when you're hella far away from the edge, lol) because it's super obvious when you're trying to do it and thus easily reacted to. And of course the strict frame window makes it pretty much impossible to perform consistently. I personally only use it to mess around in friendlies.

Extended grapple is marginally more useful (in particular, I've seen it work in the ICs MU when you're above them on a platform) if your opponent is prone to spot dodge/roll in response the regular grapple. But it's still hella slow and escapable by simply jumping, so it's not something to abuse. Here's a set of a samus using it in tournament, to give you some ideas.
 
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JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
If you're switching to Samus because of Sheik overpopulation, you're gonna have a bad time. Sheik is Samus' worst match up.

I use the SWD to reach the ledge faster (as Jagoffian mentioned), and also in certain follow up situations. It's certainly not necessary, but occasionally it's your best option.
 

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
If you're switching to Samus because of Sheik overpopulation, you're gonna have a bad time. Sheik is Samus' worst match up.
I'm likely gonna keep a pocket Puff if that's the case. I know how to use every character.

Unless that is it's worth learning the Sheik matchup. :p
 

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
eh, might as well sheik ditto, its one of your secondaries anyway. No need to really learn a new char when you already have a pocket sheik
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
I'm likely gonna keep a pocket Puff if that's the case. I know how to use every character.

Unless that is it's worth learning the Sheik matchup. :p
Well here is the thing, you just stated you know how to use every character, and by that I can take it that you are just aware of all their moves, and not that you actually know how to effectively use them otherwise you would not be picking up samus, or even be aware that sheik is samus's worst MU. Yes samus is good against spacies, but she takes a lot of work and control to use, she isnt about high level techs like you are thinking (swd and extender), like fox, mulit shine, wave shine ect... samus is about mastering the basics and understanding what your opponent wants to do. Jab cancels, spacing with tilts, master your regular wave dash, up b OoS, thats where to start from.
 

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
Yeah you're right. I can use every character at mid-level but have only actually used Marth, Sheik, Fox, and Peach on a higher caliber. I'm picking up Samus because her playstyle fits me better than I imagined, since I'm also a P:M Link main and thus rely a lot on projectiles and spacing. But yeah, I've been working a lot on my jab cancelled combos.

Regarding wavedashing, is that really supposed to be my main movement?
 

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
It's not a sin to dashdance/regular dash but wavedashing gives you a large movement boost in a fraction of the time. It's essentially our primary spacing tool, and how we counter approaches, take real estate aka stage positioning, mixups,
 

Phonz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
66
Location
Orlando, Florida
yea samus has one of the longer wavedashes, and using it as your main form of movement allows you to move faster than normal dashing around, which will help you to keep up with those faster top tiers. Also getting comfortable around platforms is important in keeping you highly mobile and helps the missile game.
 

Jagoffian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
208
Location
Orange County, CA
Made it out of pools for the first time yesterday =). (don't laugh, it's SoCal lol)

...

Huge props to Darrell btw, goddamn. Monster run at Rom 7
 

Theftz22

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,030
Location
Hopewell, NJ
Anybody have any advice on agressive marths that like to SH fair and double fair? I feel like I have a good grasp of the neutral game against ground-based marths, but I have a hard time covering the angle that fair approaches with.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Anybody have any advice on agressive marths that like to SH fair and double fair? I feel like I have a good grasp of the neutral game against ground-based marths, but I have a hard time covering the angle that fair approaches with.
If the first fair comes out right away, most likely gonna double fair, if they just jump and nothing comes out at first, you can expect a short hop fast fall l canceled fair (which is pretty safe) but you can just take the hit if they dont tipper it and CC down smash them, for the double fair, just dash attack them as soon as they throw out their first fair. (Yes these are pretty simple solutions to the question you asked, but just move for move, they are easy options to use when recognizing the situation.
 

ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
Any advice against patient spacies? I got super bodied by Stricnyn3 and Zang and DJ Nintendo at ROM 7, I think that's probably my worst matchup.
 

JerkPhil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
402
Location
Sweden
Ugggh I hate patient spacies. Especially Falcos.
My best advice is to counterpick smaller stages. The best thing is when you know them being patient from before, so you can strike them there.
Patient players rely on other being less patient, so they can punish hasty decisions. At least that's how I play. Don't get greedy, and play the spacing war with tilts and jabs.
I hate lasering Falcos. My current idea is to stay close when possible. If they run away to laser, I try to shield or powershield the lasers, and wavedash forwards between the lasers. Our projectiles can hit them off guard while they focus on lasercamping too.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Ugggh I hate patient spacies. Especially Falcos.
My best advice is to counterpick smaller stages. The best thing is when you know them being patient from before, so you can strike them there.
Patient players rely on other being less patient, so they can punish hasty decisions. At least that's how I play. Don't get greedy, and play the spacing war with tilts and jabs.
I hate lasering Falcos. My current idea is to stay close when possible. If they run away to laser, I try to shield or powershield the lasers, and wavedash forwards between the lasers. Our projectiles can hit them off guard while they focus on lasercamping too.
You should really understand how they are camping you and being patient, if they laser camp then simply move to the edge of the stage and get in the mind of your opponent to try and understand where they will move the match when you refuse to be hit by their lasers. If they camp the top platform and refuse to confront you, counterpick game 2 to a stage without the top platform, pkmn stadium.
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Federal Way, WA
NNID
illuminati
3DS FC
0666-0420-1337
As a person picking up samus (and hopefully keeping her...), what should I work on alone? I don't get a lot of human practice before my monthly regionals.
 

Jagoffian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
208
Location
Orange County, CA
As a person picking up samus (and hopefully keeping her...), what should I work on alone? I don't get a lot of human practice before my monthly regionals.
Put an emphasis on improving your movement. Get max distance wavedashes/ledgedashes down. Make sure you can wavedash out-of-shield flawlessly. Work on platform wavelanding; it's a source of a lot of great mixups (such as waveland off -> FF bair)

You should also practice your missile cancels.
 
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ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
Everything Jagoffian said, plus wavedashing from the ledge and sweetspotting grapples and up-B.

Once you get all that stuff down you can try some of the trickier stuff, like wavelanding on the ground, grapple > walljump stuff, and bomb > waveland.
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 11, 2013
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Federal Way, WA
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Should I also practice my make canceling? I just have to learn to cancel on BF platforms and to fast fall my SHMC.

I kind learn quick haha;;
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Dont bother learning to ff your short hop missiles yet, it takes a while and there are very few practical uses for them
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
As a person picking up samus (and hopefully keeping her...), what should I work on alone? I don't get a lot of human practice before my monthly regionals.
recovery stuff. bomb jumps and rising grapple (there's some video tutorials listed here).
other than that, yeah basic movement, wd out of shield into tilts and stuff. you may not use it in-game just yet, but you'll get comfortable with the character by doing so. get some ideas somewhere?

if you think you're more advanced than that, try... basic practice on cpus, learning which moves get them off the stage, and which ones keep them off (fsmash/dsmash or uthrow-->bair/nair and missiles to get them off, utilt, nair, or angled fsmash to keep them off, generally.), stuff like that.

if you ever find yourself in bham again let me know and i can give you some training if you want. it's either 'mindwrecking with pcp' or 'gettin' filthy with andy' for samuses here, your choice.
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
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NNID
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if you ever find yourself in bham again let me know and i can give you some training if you want. it's either 'mindwrecking with pcp' or 'gettin' filthy with andy' for samuses here, your choice.
You know, I didn't even know who you were until someone told me: "Dude.. that's Phil." At bham. I may attend the next tournament if one happens spring quarter, but that depends on school for me.

Untill then, maybe I can get filthy with Andy at GC.
That didn't come out the way I wanted it to. Thanks for the help!

Edit: I knew who you were, but I had never seen you.
 
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Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
Untill then, maybe I can get filthy with Andy at GC.
Yeah it's a great setup isn't it? If you liked that, you'll surely like more with my mindwrecking class... alright.

Yeah I wasn't really at the tourney, just came to have a few games with Andy, then hang out after.

I heard you got wrecked, sorry. If it makes you feel better, I think whoever beat you, I wrecked later that night, either the guy I 3-0'd with his own main in a mini-tourney or the falcon I blew apart with my link in 64 (my stage pick). Either way it appears you're pretty young, so don't sweat it.

I wouldn't count on there being another tourney here actually, ha. But maybe there will be a surprise. I still think there needs to be a post-riot-frenzy tourney after our riot we had.
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
123
Location
Federal Way, WA
NNID
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I heard you got wrecked, sorry.
I promptly quit falcon that evening. I played him for six months, and the best I ever did was winning my first two tournament sets the month before with him. Samus will be hard, but I'm gonna work hard to wreck *******.

By the way, fat dude, falcon player in 64, that's the guy I'm after.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
I promptly quit falcon that evening. I played him for six months, and the best I ever did was winning my first two tournament sets the month before with him. Samus will be hard, but I'm gonna work hard to wreck *****es.

By the way, fat dude, falcon player in 64, that's the guy I'm after.
:p jk lol welcome to the samus boards
 
Joined
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Messages
858
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PWN
Samus will be hard, but I'm gonna work hard to wreck *****es.

By the way, fat dude, falcon player in 64, that's the guy I'm after.
Get him.

In other news, I've been requested to re-upload my first montage so it can be downloaded "in HQ." So in case anyone else was interested, for a limited time... here are two re-uploads of my first montage, Varia-ous Aggression - A Samus Combo Video.

HQ 480p30 <-- A good choice
HD 720p30 <-- For bigger-ish screens

Not sure how to do spoiler tags, so here's the technical side of things. Because of the original quality of my clips, the 720 res. render doesn't add much but will be better if you're watching on a big screen, I suppose. Also the lens flares have some added pixels to them. I used a two-pass render with a high target kbps and still got the file size to be not that much bigger than the 480 version, but that might make the compression harder to deal with for your computer. Both are encoded with x264 (high profile) into an mp4 container, LAME audio at 320 CBR (just in case). The 480 res. might have been by a CRF single pass algorithm; either way, the quality is great and the file size not too bad.

Back to studying...
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Get him.

In other news, I've been requested to re-upload my first montage so it can be downloaded "in HQ." So in case anyone else was interested, for a limited time... here are two re-uploads of my first montage, Varia-ous Aggression - A Samus Combo Video.

HQ 480p30 <-- A good choice
HD 720p30 <-- For bigger-ish screens

Not sure how to do spoiler tags, so here's the technical side of things. Because of the original quality of my clips, the 720 res. render doesn't add much but will be better if you're watching on a big screen, I suppose. Also the lens flares have some added pixels to them. I used a two-pass render with a high target kbps and still got the file size to be not that much bigger than the 480 version, but that might make the compression harder to deal with for your computer. Both are encoded with x264 (high profile) into an mp4 container, LAME audio at 320 CBR (just in case). The 480 res. might have been by a CRF single pass algorithm; either way, the quality is great and the file size not too bad.

Back to studying...
Btw dude, if your opponent just rolls onto the stage, samus actually can't get back from the bottom of FoD. Also while yes it was an impressive combo video at the time, and I don't mean to hate on it, most of these combos were only possible because your opponents: missed important techs, could not meteor cancel your dairs, and forgot to refresh their ledge invincibility. Not to take anything away from you, there were still a few cool combos, like the fast fall fair into upsmash --> dash attack --> fsmash against the falcon on FD, and the down throw --> dtilt --> jab --> dtilt --> fsmash against fox on FD. But over all, most of these combos would not have worked against better players and would have stopped after one or two of the moves.
 

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
285
Location
Toronto, ON
Starting to see the power of f-tilt, man what a great move. Once I thought of it like like Vegas standing forward it all clicked into place lol
 
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