EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[JerkPhil]

I read somewhere here in the Samus boards that you can shieldgrab her dash attack. That might help in the matchup.
I think my problem is I don't play Peaches often enough (except from Armada who totally ***** me, so I can't learn anything from playing him) to really learn the matchup. I guess just playing against Peaches and figure out what works and not would help more than reading about it.

On another note, I personally figured out how to play vs Puff yesterday: First of all, charge shot is underestimated in the matchup. Puffs vertical mobility is bad, really bad. She has short jumps and slow falling speed. I find it easy to predict their movement and hit them with it. On wider stages you often have much time to charge it.
Another thing that I guess most of you know is to recover low and don't try to challenge her too much while recovering. Avoid at any cost to get off the stage, as you'll get ***** there. (I read somewhere DI-ing back and down is best against her bair-train at lower %, but I haven't learned to get used to it yet.) I sometimes try to Dair her while recovering as it covers a nice horisontal area and the Puff isn't always prepared to meteor cancel. If you get her below the ledge, edgeguard with Utilt as usual. As she can't really sweetspot the ledge in any way it's pretty easy.
Spam missiles at different heights and try to read her movement, space jabs and tilts when she comes too close. If she tries to go through and behind you, upB or Nair OoS. If she just pressures you with bairs at your shield, you can WD back and either dash attack her (while she's still airborne of course) or tilt. If you don't have enough stage left behind you, either go to the ledge or try to WDOoS towards her and shield. (I don't really know the frame data for that...) It could give you an opportunity to get some space.
The stages I'd prefer in the matchup would be PS>FD>DL64>BF>FoD>YS.

Any comments?

 

[.tea©]

Nice to see you on the boards .tea! You taught me how to play as Samus

It´s been a long time. I hope you and other Swedes will attend Ultimate Clash in Luxembourg. By the way Ares and myself also beat Timi and kiw1 in doubles grand finals last weekend. Felt pretty good.

I wouldn´t recommend shieldgrabbing Peachs´ dash attack per se. It´s really depending on spacing, timing and shield DI.

I feel quite confident about the Puff match up as well. Charge shot is so awesome vs Puff. :D Plup seems amazing at that match up. I really liked his set vs Darc at APEX 2013.

 

[JerkPhil]

Timi and Kiw1 placed pretty good at BEAST3 in doubles. They beat Rocky and I.
Ask Kiw1 about his set vs me in pools btw.
The shield grab thing was only something I've read. I'm not using it myself. As I said, I play Sheik vs Peach.
I'm not really able to travel very far for smash tournaments cause of school etc., but I'm expecting to see you at BEAST4 when it's happening. Rumours says Mew2King is coming

 

[Jagoffian]

So I was messing around with the doraki walljump, and was curious if you guys have found any applications for it. Granted, it doesn't seem very useful due to her awful jump/floatiness. It seems sub-optimal for edgeguarding, anyways.

 

[iRobinhoood]

uthrow to charge shot percents for Fox, Falco, Falcon? Rough %s would be fine.

 

[JerkPhil]

uthrow to charge shot percents for Fox, Falco, Falcon? Rough %s would be fine.

I think we can do it up to like 60% if they don't DI. I'm not sure about Falcon. I don't grab him that often.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I was thinking of not including Falcon, fair enough. 0% - 60%? I think they might need some damage but sounds good.

 

[JerkPhil]

You may be right. I don't have access to action replay or such, so this is just from my personal experience.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I think 60% is a good estimate though like to keep in mind if they're around that percent its guaranteed.

 

[DarrellD]

I think it's a little higher. Maybe 80 ish?? I can't remember the last time I did a small two hit combo like that though.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So guys this is it, I think we were given some justice after Brawl. Looks like angular tilts are back, and the missiles seem much better so far. Fingers crossed though.

 

[ManoxMano]

ugh, not enjoying the slash animation or whatever it is, looks so corny

 

[Violence]

I've never had uthrow to charge shot miss on Falcon... it has a fixed amount of hitstun, so if you throw him up and he's at low percents, you can sh charge shot or full hop charge shot. If he's at higher percents, you can do sh double jump charge shot or full hop double jump shot. I don't think there's a practical range where it doesn't work on him, I've nailed it from like 20% to triple digits, maybe I'm getting lucky?

 

[ycz12]

New Samus look for Wii U. It's shiny. It pops. I like it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZq6YvYDOBs


Goddamn Marth, goddamn dair.

 

[Violence]

Damn, Knut, I really love your movement, it's so crisp. I wish I could move like that. Your shffmc is impeccable, how did you practice that? I also love your grapple recovery style, it's fast and direct to leave fewer vulnerabilities to getting edgeguarded. I also wavedash back off reverse lazyboy nair, but I don't think it's actually good in this matchup. Laying bombs might've been the right answer from the direction Marth was coming.

Darrell and I both hate FD in this matchup, what do you think of the stage, and why?

You move fluidly, but I think your Marth game could benefit from additional use of buffered crouch cancel during moves. Especially against pocket Marths, who aren't as good at spacing tipper fairs.

 

[JerkPhil]

Dair is meteor in PAL ^^

I usually don't have any problem edgeguarding Marth. I hold the ledge and threaten to ledgehop Nair for a stagespike trade. If they go high to land on stage, I ledgehop into a Dair-bomb-Nair or a Bair and repeat the process. I like DL64 and FD for this.
I agree with crouch cancel vs Marth. I use it a lot when I'm below like 70%.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Dair is meteor everywhere I believe. CC Marth's fair at low percents into dsmash. Fsmash if Marth is at higher percent to knock him off stage.

 

[Ripple]

marth dair is a spike in NTSC. in PAL it is a Meteor. Samus vs. Marth in PAL would be so Nice

also, I oddly do best against Dart on FD. just gotta do back throws and read a jump / no jump and punish with a tipper bair or DA

 

[Knut]

that dair. just wow. i was soo angry that i missed the nair, and i tried to laugh it off afterwards anway. but really, i known better than to rush my recovery in that instance. ledge hop dair is such a typical and safe answer to that. but whatever.

thanks a lot though violence!! i'm glad to see fellow sami diggin my stuff.

as far as the stage thing goes...when i strike stages vs marth, i usually try and get to FoD. if thats gone though, i have come to prefer FD over BF because of the open space. there's more room for SHFFMC zoning and he doesn't have platforms to escape the missiles. none of the tipper Fsmash under platform shenanigans either. although no samus dair tech chases which are always sexy ::shrugs:: i also like how FD has more stage to grapple while recovering. and being able to ride the wall with UpB and have an easier time teching fsmash/dtilt is a huge plus. basically, it's like my go-to stage if i don't have experience vs a particular marth player, and i feel like i'll need the space/time to pick up on their habits and answers to things. and i also find it like 20x harder and riskier to do Uair interrupt from the ledge on BF, which i'm a big fan of using in this match up to get on stage.

for the past year and a half, SHFFMC has been one of my main focuses when i practice alone. i watched Phanna's ultimate missile drill on youtube, and was like dayummm. i wanna be able to do that. it was like all i did for a while lol. when i practice my tech skill with samus now a days, i try my best to direct all my attention to somewhere else on the screen.its helped quite a bit in my matches.

and could you possibly point out some places where you see i should be going for buffered CC? i swear when i do go to buffer CC, i always get hard-knock-down, like if i'm fsmashing or just landed from a MC. maybe i'm not paying close enough attention to percents. idk.

and bombs vs marth recovering lowis soo good! i used to use them all the time. i went for one that match and i didn't commit to it, so it ended up bouncing around on stage. i really gotta get the confidence with them back up.

 

[iRobinhoood]

marth dair is a spike in NTSC. in PAL it is a Meteor. Samus vs. Marth in PAL would be so Nice

also, I oddly do best against Dart on FD. just gotta do back throws and read a jump / no jump and punish with a tipper bair or DA

Ohhhhh I thought he was referencing Samus' dair for some reason. Makes sense now.

 

[ManoxMano]

Any have videos that truly define how one of our matchups is supposed to look like?
I'm talking about real even games between two well versed players in the Samus V etc matchup.
I have no idea how matchups are and i need to learn it

 

[iRobinhoood]

Any have videos that truly define how one of our matchups is supposed to look like?
I'm talking about real even games between two well versed players in the Samus V etc matchup.
I have no idea how matchups are and i need to learn it

Refer to this thread for tidbits of info on certain matchups: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-samus-index-thread-updated-3-9-13.333011/

Samus vs. Ganon

Samus vs. Puff

Samus vs. Falcon

Samus vs. Falco

Samus vs. Sheik

Samus vs. Samus

May re-visit later.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

Refer to this thread for tidbits of info on certain matchups: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-samus-index-thread-updated-3-9-13.333011/

Samus vs. Falcon

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww eat a **** robin lol

 

[ManoxMano]

I'll post what I've learned from these videos, not only to help me remember the material but it may help someone else along the way

Falco: Laser approaches - shield the lasers, wavedash back to maintain spacing but Falco will always close in. Spotdodge when you feel a grab coming, UpBOoS to punish aireals or gaps in a block-string. Wavedash OoS when Falco is too far for a successful UpB

Falco's Recovery - Never let Falco get an easy firebird back to stage, no matter where he is. Down air when he is charging low (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mMDurSTVnAk#t=124s), up tilt when Falco UpB's straight at you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mMDurSTVnAk#t=298s), and do your best to cover all options that falco can do (various firebird angles, side B [which can be punished if falco doesnt grab the ledge], and falco's various ledge options such as the double laser off ledge) Watch how HugS treats this double laser: just like he is laser approaching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mMDurSTVnAk#t=380s)

Samus' Recovery - I didn't learn too much about this because I felt Shiz let HugS go back on stage unpunished way too many times, however getting back to center stage, and being able to shield ASAP are important for staying on the stage, and when off the stage the highest priority should be to get to the ledge, imho

ALWAYS look for opportunities to punish pt 1 - this is what I learned most from this video. HugS cannot compete with Shiz's fierce rushdown and so he lets him approach more freely (note the lack of heavy missile use) not only because Falco can clearly trump (and counter-punish) samus' approaches and kill moves, but because he wants Shiz to take control. By giving Shiz control of the game and allowing him to play his aggressive style HugS can find the holes in his play and stick a punish in there. he does this mainly through UpB OoS, but also through grabs (although it doesnt work all the time), ftilts, shield stabs, and many more. I've learned this is key towards having a successful match against a Falco - punishing accordingly to the holes in one's play, and then looking for a definitive edgeguard or punish

ALWAYS look for opportunities to punish pt 2 - However, a problem arises when we meet a Falco like Dr. PP, who plays a more turtly, defensive style. This means samus has less opportunities to punish, much less get an UpBOoS Heres a recent match from Zenith 2013 featuring DJ nintendo and PP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dm9ejSEJXf4#t=359s
Look how safe PP is, watch how little he approaches and how successful it turns out for him when he does. so how does DJ fight back? With the same idea of punishing, and following through. However with DJ this means he does the unexpected. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dm9ejSEJXf4#t=376s : Watch how he opts for a dmash rather than the conventional UpB (although spotdodging beforehand may have made dmash the more appealing option) and then follows through with the nair to counter the high phantasm. many more examples of this notion in this video, and many differences between Shiz and PP, HugS and DJ, but I wont go into that. The fundamentals remain the same - punish, follow through, edgeguard.

(Note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mMDurSTVnAk#t=112s : this looks like a very good followup to a UpB>landing on a high platform. HugS performs this multiple times throughout the set, only being punished by Shiz missing the tech (intentionally or unintentionally)

I'll do more posts on the other matchups in the following week. If you disagree with my findings, or wish to add on feel free to do so it will further broaden my understanding of the MU

 

[iRobinhoood]

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww eat a **** robin lol

 

[Pluplue]

jebus knut is good at shff missiles

 

[iRobinhoood]

The best advice I've ever gotten, "just stand there, and missile" ^

Words to live by.

 

[Violence]

and could you possibly point out some places where you see i should be going for buffered CC? i swear when i do go to buffer CC, i always get hard-knock-down, like if i'm fsmashing or just landed from a MC. maybe i'm not paying close enough attention to percents. idk.

Well, here's the thing, even though that may be the case, getting put into a hard knock down is almost always better than getting put into the air anyways, so in my mind you should almost always be buffering a downward di.

The only cases where this isn't true is when your opponent starts being able to punish your cc, which isn't that many of them.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Sometimes CC Falcons raptor boost works, sometimes I get hard knockdown. Am I missing it or something? I said PHUKIT, now I just jab or ftilt on reaction raptor boosts.

 

[Phonz]

I need some help with the puff matchup, rest isn't much of a problem except for when they read my occasional dash attack or roll. Its the bair camping and and the bair edgeguarding i have problems with. Sometimes missile spam will work but other than that i also find myself kinda spamming dsmash and dtilt

 

[Pi]

I need some help with the puff matchup, rest isn't much of a problem except for when they read my occasional dash attack or roll. Its the bair camping and and the bair edgeguarding i have problems with. Sometimes missile spam will work but other than that i also find myself kinda spamming dsmash and dtilt

na you get to be proactive in this matchup

ur nair is rly good, just throw urself at the puff (learn WHEN, obviously)
ub OoS is good, dair is SO good in this matachup because puff always gonna shield when u come down from above, and it's got lot of lag on it, so you can dair -> jab or whatever
honestly if you can force the puff onto the ground w/ missiles and come from a dair position the puff is probably gonna get hit, i usually just dair, short hop, dair again, their upair is pretty slow and puffs are generally pretty slow to react out of shield vs. samus any way

they probably gonna jump up after the first dair tbh, so just be prepared to tech chase when u hit em w/ the 2nd

save ur jump when recovering, know when to nair her, and know when to go low as ****, and if you can catch her w/ your UpB as long as u can still grab the edge



ANY WAY, WHWAT I REALLY CAME HERE FOR WAS EVO POOLS ARE UP

darrell u beat that marth in ur pool and i'll beat the marth in mine kthx
even tho u washed up

 

[Phonz]

Thanks for the info. And I wanna see some samuses? Sami? **** **** up at EVOOOOO

 

[Pi]

Thanks for the info. And I wanna see some samuses? Sami? **** **** up at EVOOOOO

orlando fl? have we met?

 

[Phonz]

orlando fl? have we met?

Probably not lol I've only gone to one tournament so far since I've started playing competitively this spring, i always seem to have some other commitment , and I don't think there were any other samus players there.

 

[Ripple]

I have wobbles in my evo pool. Someone please show me a high level samus vs a high level ICs.

 

[Pi]

I have wobbles in my evo pool. Someone please show me a high level samus vs a high level ICs.

plup vs. chu dat youtube dat ****

also for an example of how NOT to fight ice climbers, find pi vs. chu dat

 

[JerkPhil]

I need some help with the puff matchup, rest isn't much of a problem except for when they read my occasional dash attack or roll. Its the bair camping and and the bair edgeguarding i have problems with. Sometimes missile spam will work but other than that i also find myself kinda spamming dsmash and dtilt

At the top of this page I wrote my ideas around the matchup. Try to Ftilt instead of dash attack if they're grounded.

 

[ManoxMano]

Anyone catch HugS on bobby scars stream playing with mango and Lucky?
He's still looking pretty tight albeit some messups. Lovin how he wavedashes OoS to the perfect spot where he can ledge cancel his UpB

 

[.tea©]

Anyone catch HugS on bobby scars stream playing with mango and Lucky?
He's still looking pretty tight albeit some messups. Lovin how he wavedashes OoS to the perfect spot where he can ledge cancel his UpB

Can you link the matches? I'm so excited that he's attending EVO. HugS has so many great ideas for his gameplay. Too bad Plup doesn't go.