EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[iRobinhoood]

Yea that Falco I was facing in crews, we got FD for the first stage -_- I had nowhere to hide. And I'll try dsmashing less in that MU.

 

[bubbaking]

Learn how to WD OoS consistently, not only for dealing with lasers but also for moving away from your position, as McNinja said. Being able to do this is critical. When approaching, both spacees will often home in on where you're standing with your shield up to start applying pressure. If you WD OoS, you can fake 'em out, baiting them into attacking where you just were, and then counter-attack. Doesn't work every time, but you're safe even if they don't attack.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I have gotten consistent at wd oos but I would like to see if I can adapt the wd oos with L method. I know now never to bring Falco to FD. Like ever

 

[bubbaking]

It's not too bad once you get WD OoS down, IMO. It's still my least favorite stage for the MU, though. One minor thing I like about FD is that since there are no plats around, uthrow can combo more reliably into stuff, like every single one of our aerials (DI dependent, of course), bomb tricksies, and Charged Shot.

 

[McNinja]

I have gotten consistent at wd oos but I would like to see if I can adapt the wd oos with L method. I know now never to bring Falco to FD. Like ever

Never ever. What Bubba said is true, but getting pinned down that hard by lasers isn't worth it imo.

That's why I like pokes. It has plats, and a nice open area to do fun throw tricksies.

 

[abcool]

One thing i don't see Samus mains use much is Dsmash on platforms like Peach players. I use it often. It works if you can predict approaches. HugS taught me about it and it has been useful.

 

[bubbaking]

http://youtu.be/qpj--JS692E

Well, here's my critique. I hope you find some part of it helpful.

I'm surprised you didn't want to go to BF or FoD for your first match. I really hate how early Samus can die here in any direction and I usually just gimp Fox anyway. Your call, though.

0:18 - The match started off kinda shaky, but you pulled through. At this second, you misspaced a jab on his shield and immediately felt the need to back off. I agree with this decision. However, you did it by jumping backwards. Against chars who can dash easily under us (Fox, Falcon, Sheik, Marth, etc.), we should be avoiding entering the air so freely. I would have just WD'd backwards to re-establish my spacing. If he tried to follow me, I may have retaliated with a ftilt. Try to establish your defensive spacing through WDs and not jumps, but you made the right call on backing down after misspacing that jab. As you can see, you had to try to cover your landing and he capitalized on that. We have to stay grounded.

0:35 - By this time, you've had to get up off the ledge three times, but each time, you came up with either a normal get-up or a get-up attack. This predictability is what I would say led up the loss of your first stock. Mix it up and definitely consider ledgehopping with aerials or WLing.

1:10 - Once again, by this time of your second stock, you have had to get up off the ledge three more times, and once again, you only got up with normal get-ups or get-up attacks. The Fox is picking up on this and you can see this because now every time you end up on the ledge, he comes way too close to the ledge and puts up his shield when, ideally, he should be standing back a little bit, ready to react to your ledge option. If he's not respecting your ledge options, you can use your invincibility to WL past him or you could ledgehop fair/uair/nair. If you need time to think, you can refresh your invincibility with a little planking.

1:11 - Samus' spot-dodge is really good, but you're starting to become a little too spot-dodge happy. It seemed like the Fox was baiting the spot-dodge in order to punish with jab (probably to be followed up by grab or usmash), but he mistimed it so you got your dsmash kill. Good job, but be wary of spot-dodging too much. Good opponents will see this and bait it out.

1:24 - Here and at 1:31, you need to work on your tech-chase timing. At 1:24, I would have jumped immediately to catch the get-up with uair and at 1:31, I personally would have just naired the Fox since it's easier to time and keeps Fox off his feet, but your tech-choice options are yours to decide. You just have to make sure you don't miss them. That last missed TC is what led to the loss of your second stock.

1:43 - You also need to work on your utilt gimp timing.

1:52 - Nice catch with that nair!

2:10 - Again, you missed the get-up. Personally, unless I'm going with an easy nair/bair/uair, I don't like to hang in the air repeatedly for my TCs, especially ones I might be late for. One can almost never go wrong with staying on the ground under the platforms, and you probably know that utilt covers those low platforms really well. That would have been my personal choice in that situation and it would have combo'd into a nair that sent the Fox offstage if it hit. Oftentimes, in several situations, people want to jump up and do aerial stuff, but in many of those cases, it is actually better to just hang out under the platform and poke at the opponent with utilt. It can shield poke and if it hits, you get a combo or TC from it. Going up with aerials is very punishable against shielding opponents because of how floaty she is.

2:11 - I don't know why you wanted to shoot a grounded missile right next to him. Seeing as how Fox just blocked that dair and had a bunch of frame advantage, I would have shielded or upB'd when he jumped.

2:13 - UpB OoS.

2:16 - Once again, you just came back on with a regular get-up action. It was a ledgejump this time, but it still puts you through a very punishable amount of lag. You can see that the Fox is not giving any respect to your ledge position anymore. You could have punished that careless usmash he did right next to the ledge with ledgehop fair/nair or WL > dsmash but instead, you lost all opportunities when you jumped. Ledgejump in particular is dangerous because of how long it lasts and how far into the air it puts Samus.

2:17 - Might as well do a MC now that you've already jumped to cover yourself/apply pressure.

2:19 - That was a really good grab you got out on reaction! However, personally, I would have TC'd with the Charge Shot immediately instead of backing off and giving him space. Dthrow only does 6% damage, so just doing the throw for the damage isn't worth it. Dsmash is faster and does much nicer things to Fox if that's all you're going for. Dthrow/uthrow are good because they set Fox up to be punished. You should try to TC with something. In this case, Charged Shot would have definitely worked.

2:21 - Awesome WD back > fsmash and even nicer catch on the get-up with that Charge Shot!

2:58 - Those were some nice strings you pulled off here!

3:14 - Nice spacing on that WD OoS > ftilt. If iRobbin is reading this, THAT is what you should be doing to spacees.

3:18 - Good edgeguard. I hate how utilt trades with Firefox sometimes! (>.<)

3:20 - Whenever my utilt trades with Firefox like that, and I don't have time to get down to utilt him again, but I know that Fox is forced to upB again from a bad angle or far away, I just drift out, FF, and nair him. At 105% on YS, he was definitely dead.

3:25 - Great capitalization on that hit!

One of the things that I noticed the most is that you never waveland onto the stage from the ledge, and you barely ledgehop any aerials (I actually don't remember seeing any of these either), and I feel like it was because you were uncomfortable with doing them, not because you didn't know how to or that they existed. Those are Samus' two best ledge get-up options, and you should probably put some time in the lab towards getting consistent and comfortable with those two techniques.

One thing I also noticed is that you rarely shield. Actually, that's not exactly the right way to put it. You rarely hold up your shield, and you upB OoS even less, but you rolled twice and you spot-dodged frequently. You definitely want to shield more, especially against Fox. He's difficult to CC when he's playing properly (shining after every aerial, etc). Spot dodges are nice on Samus, but do it too much and the opponent starts baiting them and/or flat-out punishing them, and that usually means death from Fox. I'd rather just hold up my shield to see what he does and/or WD OoS to get a better position. It's not too bad if Fox grabs us because he has no reliable combos on us at any %. I'm not going to say to NEVER roll, but I tend to avoid it as much as possible and I think you could have easily avoided those situations where you rolled by just shielding, lightshielding, or upBing OoS. I really noticed your lack of shield around 2:40.

I hope this helped. Sorry if there were a lot of negative comments. If there is a long stretch of time without any criticism, it means you were doing everything I would have done or were playing even better than I would have in that situation. Good job on your victory! I'll probably critique the next matches after this.

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry for the double post, but I really wanted to point out:

3:14 - Nice spacing on that WD OoS > ftilt. If iRobbin is reading this, THAT is what you should be doing to spacees.

WD OoS is really good.

 

[abcool]

@bubbaKing, thanks for the advice, but half the stuff you are pointing out i already do. Shin is a player i played against when i first got into competitive smash and created the scene in the Bahamas back in 06(Around the time i learned the tech)

he used to consistently beat me and i feel he still has that mental edge over me because i don't apply anything i know when fighting him. The reason we went to YS is because he stopped playing competitive smash before all of the stage striking stuff was implemented and he likes to go random. It was something i didn't want to have an arguement over since he didn't care to learn it. I know this was bad, but i agreed. I didn't record my GF, but i know the peach matchup and it's one of those matches that i acutally do things most Samus mains don't do. Dthrow dash under pivot fsmash etc, depending on the di.

I'll point out a few things i didn't do to much because of my defeatist mind vs him. I didn't shield because he developed this habit of shine>grab. I get grabbed often. An i don't know how to spotdodge grabs on reactions so i ended up spamming it. Shin is an old school player. ShounenKel hasn't beaten him in a set even to this day. Shin is really smart. He went to OC3 an was keeping up with Azen and M2k etc in friendlies. He ain't no push over. At this tournament he probably was just playing the game again after a long time of inactivity.

When you saw me downthrow and wavedash back i usually punish with dsmash that is because most people tech into me when i use that option and he teched in place, after realizing this i was gonna downsmash the next time i got a grab, which didn't happen.

After realizing i was losing to a matchup i destroy most spacies in i stopped being stupid, i literally had to adjust my mindset in that match and tell myself i am playing like a scrub. It's why on my third stock you start to see things play better. Mindset plays a huge role in the way you play this game sometimes. I started to remember a lot of things. Up-B to platform dsmash, spacing wavedashes under platforms to cover fullhop aerial options, throwing out chargebeam on techs or missed techs.

My advanced tech is downpacked already. I play mained Fox/Marth before Samus http://youtu.be/F5k24ehxohg

Things you pointed out i need to work on is stop using aerials on platforms when someone is above me.
Rely a lot more on my shield instead of wavedashing out of it so soon.
Use light shielding more.

Thanks btw, but this guy was in my head mentally and i need to get over that first, luckily he is the only person i get nerves about so i know how to think when i play him again.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, I know what you mean and how much a personal mental block can affect someone's performance. I probably have more day-to-day Peach experience than most other Sami because I play with Ben Grimm often (he lives in my area on LI). However, I can never seem to beat him, be it friendly or tournament. However, at that MD/VA regional tournament, I faced Epsilon's Peach in tournament and I beat him. Later on, I played a friendly with DoH's Peach and I took it to decently high %'s on his last stock, and I know DoH is way better than Ben. At fests, I've gone against plenty of other Peaches and I always do well against them, even against players I feel are better than me. I know I've learned about Peach from playing Ben, but for some reason, I do terribly against him, and I strongly feel that my mentality just screws me over whenever I play him. It might also be that, since he knows me personally, he knows my quirks and habits and CPs me personally by countering my actions.

 

[abcool]

That is what i am saying, sometimes like, you feel the stuff you know will just be countered, don't get me wrong what you pointed out made a lot of sense to me and showed me that things i THOUGHT Shin would punish; he didn't. It's why he went Sheik, he told me he doesn't like the Fox/Samus matchup. An his Sheik is the character i was mentally prepared for so i played that a heck of a lot better. Next time though i will play his Fox with more confidence and do everything i thought i couldn't do.

Off topic though. I saw you on JC's stream. I was quite surprised when i realized you were black lol. Hey, always good to see more black Samus players. So it's Darrell, You and I?!

 

[iRobinhoood]

How do you guys feel about this quote?

"Proper spacing is indirect pressure/aggression."

 

[Dobs1007]

Who all is goin to APEX? I failed last year of getting a group shot of the Samus mains and actually wanna try to get one this year...

 

[Geist]

How do you guys feel about this quote?

"Proper spacing is indirect pressure/aggression."

Proper spacing seems like pretty direct pressure to me, unless you're spacing moves with the intent of covering options rather than actually hitting/approaching someone. But then that would fall more to zoning.
imo

seems legit though.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I will be spectating this year. I'm lucky to make it out there. White controller & purple Samus. Probably gonna rock my competitor tag from last year haha.

 

[bubbaking]

It's why he went Sheik, he told me he doesn't like the Fox/Samus matchup.

That's interesting. Most Foxes I see hate the Samus:Fox MU, even though it's not bad for Fox.....at all. At worst, it's even for him, but I think the MU is slightly in his favor. It's probably 'cause one minor mistake and Fox can get messed up badly and we're pretty ruthless when edgeguarding him. That and his dumb uthrow > uair NEVER works on us. Sheik destroys us, though...

Off topic though. I saw you on JC's stream. I was quite surprised when i realized you were black lol. Hey, always good to see more black Samus players. So it's Darrell, You and I?!

Oh, lolz! Yep, that makes three of us, four if you count Wes. Man, I'm a little embarassed by some of my play on that stream. I mean, I get a little winning streak with ROB and I reverse 4-stock JC's Mario with G&W, but then I totally destroy any chance my crew had of victory in a crew battle against a guy I was destroying just earlier. Even though I play Samus/ROB, I don't know how to deal with campy play.

How do you guys feel about this quote?

"Proper spacing is indirect pressure/aggression."

Well, it depends on how you look at it. Properly spaced moves are pretty much the only way to actually apply pressure at all, at least with Samus. You don't space those moves and you get messed up for trying to "apply pressure". I think a way of applying "indirect pressure" is just maintaining a presence somewhere like, just standing there at the "proper spacing". I like to do this a lot actually, especially to worse players. They expect so many tilts and dsmashes from Samus, so they just shield when I'm even remotely close, so I disrespect them. I walk through their shields. I stand in front of them. Then I punish OoS reactions. Until the opponent gives me a reason to respect them, I probably won't.

Along those lines, sometimes, I charge a Charged Shot in front of the opponent, with "proper spacing". If they do something dumb OoS, like try to spot-dodge, roll, or drop their shields and run/aerial at me, I just release it in their faces. If they do something smart, like WD OoS or FH, I cancel > WD back and resume play.

Who all is goin to APEX? I failed last year of getting a group shot of the Samus mains and actually wanna try to get one this year...

Unfortunately, I am not this year. It's too expensive and I lack funds this time. Get a good picture and share it for me, will you?

 

[ThePrime]

Who all is goin to APEX? I failed last year of getting a group shot of the Samus mains and actually wanna try to get one this year...

dobs the homie ill hit you up lets kick it

 

[bubbaking]

So now I REALLY think I'm pretty good at the Marth and Jiggs MUs. Redd is a really good Melee player down here, possibly the best player in all of NoVA and maybe even the best player in all of VA, period. He plays a bunch of chars and he was beating me consistently with Fox and Falco and he trashed me with Falcon and Sheik, but he could not take me out with Marth. We played 4 matches, one on every starter except FD. I beat him convincingly on DL64 and BF and he only very barely won on Yoshi's and FoD, which are probably Marth's best stages in that MU.

I also had a MM Bo5 set, which I won, with a really good Jiggs down here by the tag of Fortune. Jiggs is weird, but I definitely don't think she's as hard as I've heard some people say. IIRC, at one point, some people thought the MU was 7:3 in Puff's favor.

Marth:Samus is all about spacing, but when it comes to actually hitting the opponent, Marth has to be more mindful of it than Samus does. Anything that isn't tippered can be CC dtilt/dsmashed into oblivion. Of course, if you're going to be hit, make sure you're CCing anyway, even if the hit is tippered, because if you don't, you're combo food. If Marth is offstage, it's abysmal for him. He has to go high or he's shut down. However, if he puts us in the air, his combos last for days and put us offstage. Once offstage, Samus has to be incredibly wary. Marth can go deceptively far offstage to strike us out of our bomb jumps and kill us off the sides. Don't shield too much. Stay on the move to maintain your spacing because if Marth grabs you, it's an easy way to put Samus in the air. Both of us have a difficult time descending around the opponent but Marth has easier and more reliable ways to put us up there (uthrow, utilt, uair, and other attacks that we don't CC). I liked bigger stages against Marth, mostly 'cause we have room to move around and live if we get hit and Marth sucks at recovering. On smaller stages, we have a SUPER hard time trying to descend from the air and every lower platform is liable to be fsmashed. We die way too early on those stages from random tippers too, and utilt and uair kill us extremely early on Yoshi's. I'd say this MU is somewhere from 6:4 to 65:35 in Marth's favor.

Jiggs:Samus also puts a huge emphasis on superb spacing, and this time, it's US who have to pay way more attention. Jiggs aerial weaving can easily make us whiff our tilts and she can punish these whiffed tilts on reaction. Remember how negative our moves are on block (which are safe when spaced)? Well, now imagine how negative (and unsafe) they are on whiff. She can constantly bair us without fear of punishment, even when we CC it at super low %'s. It might take a while for one to get used to that, I feel. Use a LOT of utilt. It's safer when shielded/whiffed and Jiggs seems to have a really hard time getting around that leg. It even gives us the benefit of killing Jiggs fairly early. I used to think that Samus couldn't be rest combo'd by Jiggs, but now I know that utilt > Rest still works on her around mid %'s. She can also rest us out of DA. At super low %'s, I think she can auto-CC it, but that hardly matters because she can crouch UNDER OUR DASH ATTACK!!! Luckily, it seems like she can't crouch under our grab 'cause I always got her when I saw her crouching under a missile. I really don't have too much else to say about this MU. I was just really careful about my spacing and used a lot of missiles and Charged Shots. Oh man, did I use those Charged Shots! I really like to just throw them out against aerial weavers like Jiggs and Peach who spend a lot of time at one altitude, even when ascending/descending, and I've had a good deal of success with them. Jiggs is also pretty easy to combo and frame-trap out of throws and dthrow > Charged Shot works on her in some situations. Jiggs is also one of those chars who can gimp us pretty well if we don't watch ourselves. She can go really far out to intercept us between bomb jumps. Definitely conserve that DJ for mobility around Puff. When I get within a certain distance of her, I throw out defensive aerials to protect myself. High up and out, nair's usually a good choice. Closer to the ledge, fair sometimes combos into upB. If I still have my DJ, DJ uair can catch her by surprise and throw her off. Going for DJ dair usually got me uaired. In this particular MU, I liked smaller stages because it allows us to kill Jiggs a LOT earlier, especially with random utilts and missiles, and Jiggs doesn't really hit hard unless she gets the occasional fsmash read or rest. On larger stages, we run the risk of losing our survivability advantage to gimps. I feel that this MU also ranges somewhere from 6:4 to 65:35. It's around the same difficulty as Marth, IMO.

Edit: From my experiences, I'd say that the the three chars who do best at gimping Samus are Sheik, Jiggs, and Marth. Sheik needles bombs, Jiggs can go far out to hit us between bomb jumps, and Marth can also go pretty far to hit us through the bombs.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Bubbaking gonna have to teach me the Marth MU when I start going to school.

 

[McNinja]

Ugh the Marth matchup. I remember having trouble with that. It used to be my worst matchup. There used to be an entire thread on that matchup itself!

But yeah. Eventually I got the hang of it and now its my favorite matchup. I think that's the case with most people.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, I remember those days..... I think nowadays, people are going to run into similar (or worse) problems dealing with Sheik. That ***** is just too much trouble! (>.<)

 

[iRobinhoood]

Might sell xbox + monitor to put toward a nice Laptop to stream with and also school use.

 

[GunPunch]

I'm at that point, were Marth is my least favorite MU. I feel that a lot of Shiek players, that aren't super good, try to get creative and that's were i don't hate them as much. because they don't play super lame, destroy samus gameplay. For marths, i feel that almost every marth i play finds something that is lame and works against samus/me and then i get destroyed...which means i need to adapt. but still, it's part of what makes me hate marths.

great post about the Marth MU though bubbaking

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, I have more Samus video from a couple tourneys I went to recently. One was a MD/VA regional, one was a MD/VA local with a bunch of good players in attendance. Will find them and link them here when I do.

 

[Dobs1007]

dobs the homie ill hit you up lets kick it

Word man yup we will chill again Also you play standard or EDH format in MTG I'm consider bringing my deck lol...

 

[iRobinhoood]

We better get a Samus player group at Apex, because we're all cool and shiz.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

because we're all cool and shiz.

I know two of you and idk about that













Jk

But real talk depending on how much money I bring and stuff I might be willing to money match all or almost all samus' against my peach

 

[GunPunch]

hey, that's some big talk! first of all, we ARE cool AND shiz.

also, what's the deal with peach mains thinking they have the samus MU wrapped up? i have a friend who's a peach main, and he's ridiculously confident about the samus MU. i asked him if he thought he could beat plup and he didn't reply with the obvious answer: "plup would destroy me". i don't think it's that bad of a MU (that said, i would probably lose to most good peach mains)...do we just suck at fighting peach players?

 

[ThePrime]

Peach is very unforgiving and can take space easier than samus. These two reasons imo is what makes the MU difficult and at least 6:4 in peach's favor for simply being a better character. You just have to play a different spacing game vs peach which basically means don't be in her float zones and dont be in her turnip zones. Don't catch turnips too close to her, good peaches use it as subtle bait so that you catch the turnip instead of jab. ALWAYS DI PEACH'S DOWN THROW AWAY ! ! ! This is because the most you will ever take is a dash attack, any other DI peach can punish harder. Use missles at float heights to keep her on the ground, just mixup it up sometimes by doing empty short hops or empty sh ff waveland to maneuver. When you're knocked off stage vs peach get to the ledge/on stage ASAP don't delay time with bomb jumps if you dont have to.

edit: just remembering some other peach stuff.... you generally want to be within a wavedash-jab distance away from her, sometimes more sometimes less. It's mostly about being out of her dash attack area, since thats the only fast attack she has that could catch you off gaurd you should be able to react to anything she does.

Peach is like a tank. She's kinda slow but when shes in her zones then it's just destruction. Armada amirite. When she is in float, this is like when the tank's cannon is about to fire, don't fight fire with fire because you'll probably lose! This means you must stay out of her float-fair zones, challenge it if their timing is a little off because samus utilt can stuff peach's fair cold but in general you'll probably trade .... trades are ok but sometimes you have to play to take ZERO damage. If the canon is firing a lot (it's an agro peach that float cancels aerials a lot) then either out space the aerial or threaten her float height with a missle. If the peach is passive and floats to react (better peaches imo) then sometimes you can challenge her in the air with a fair but only do this if you know that you can get away safely. I like to start charging a shot if I see peach playing passive. A CHARGE SHOT IN THE PEACH MU IS VERY NICE !!! And the best part is that you'll have the TIME to charge more shots due to peach's long survivability. Charge shot vs floaties is godlike because unlike the fastfaller MU where you're mostly using charge shot for covering tech options, vs floaties charge shot covers AIR SPACE WHICH IS CRUCIAL IN FLOATY VS FLOATY !

 

[iRobinhoood]

I like to use homing missiles to bring the Peach players down to our level. I'm a man of my word.

 

[Violence]

Hey guys.... am I dumb for just figuring this out, or...

If you have the extender, and you press Z(or R+A) to put it out, it won't home in. However, if it's out and moving in a straight line, clicking L will then cause it to home in on the closest target to its edge. I've used it to grab the right target in doubles and quickly end the match. With a little practice, grabbing the one you want out of several situations is easy.

This isn't new, right?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Hmm would have to try. Normally I just home the extender all the time in game.

 

[bubbaking]

This is news to me!

do we just suck at fighting peach players?

I think this describes a lot of us in a nutshell...

Prime's advice is really great! Also, I'd like to repeat some tips that Duck told me at Apex 2012 regarding that MU. We can't directly challenge Peach in anything she does. If we directly confront her, either on the ground or in the air (and even in exchanges involving both), we're usually bound to lose. Therefore, spacing and zoning is extremely important.

As for things I personally like to do, sometimes, by spamming MCs, I can 'condition' or coax the Peach to float over my missiles. The most obvious way one can use this is to MC and then cover the floating space with an aerial or another missile. This works sometimes but defensive Peaches (the good ones) tend to catch on and just aerial through missiles while spacing their floats to avoid and counter your aerials. Something I'd much rather use, when possible, is MC to cover the ground and then a Charged Shot at float height as soon as I see her jump. They try to AD it a lot of the time, but the fully Charged Shot is often large enough to catch it.

Also, Peach's ledge options without a float SUCK! Her DJ is slow so many times you'll see them utilizing their regular get-up options. Be in a good position to punish those options! Also, Peach has frame advantage on our shields when she FC's. Do NOT try to CC her crap unless it's clear that she isn't abusing her FC advantage. I find the easiest way to avoid FC pressure is to just upB OoS, the good ol' fashioned way. Peach is floaty and she has a super hard time punishing it as long as you FF it afterwards, so it's basically free damage. Be tight with your dthrow combo timings. If you hesitate or are unsure, go with a really safe option or just don't go in at all, 'cause Peach's nair is frame 3 and it's ridiculous.

OH! WATCH OUT FOR PEACHES WHO CONSISTENTLY PS OUR MISSILES!!! I am convinced that when a Peach can PS more than half of our missiles, the MU goes from 6:4 to 7:3.

 

[Violence]

o_O I've always found the matchup to be in Samus's favor. Samus is more mobile.

Also, the reason why I do this is to avoid the extender homing in on my partner.

I feel like using the extender in doubles is great for catching an unsuspecting opponent teammate.

Say you're below a platform, and your partner is getting tech chased on it. The opponent lands on the platform, and is further away from you than your partner.

If you home extender, it will home in on your partner. If you Z extender, the beam will travel behind the opponent then you activate L, and it will curve upward to the opponent's position, where you can then grab, completely reversing the situation.

 

[bubbaking]

I think you're gonna be a one-man minority on this one.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey, that's some big talk! first of all, we ARE cool AND shiz.

also, what's the deal with peach mains thinking they have the samus MU wrapped up? i have a friend who's a peach main, and he's ridiculously confident about the samus MU. i asked him if he thought he could beat plup and he didn't reply with the obvious answer: "plup would destroy me". i don't think it's that bad of a MU (that said, i would probably lose to most good peach mains)...do we just suck at fighting peach players?

I am confident b/c i play against the real best samus all the time (shout out to my boy knut).

So mm yes no?

 

[Violence]

I dunno what the big deal is.

I've played really good Peaches, DoH, MacD, Bladewise, mostly Bladewise.

They beat me because they're better than I am, but the matchup doesn't seem bad at all.

You just have to not challenge their safe ****. They come down with an fc fair? Don't challenge it. They dash attack? Don't challenge it.

Utilt is good at certain spacings. Jumping up and aerialing them is good at certain spacings. You can move on the ground faster than they can move in the air. You can react to almost everything they do. They throw a turnip? Shield it->wd back, or avoid it. If you wanna be tricky at low percents, you can shield it, up B into it, then come down with a dair instantly.

The matchup is all about using your shield effectively, and not challenging their good moves. Instead rely on the ability to outspace them with longer range attacks, zone them with missiles, and make them come to you unsafely. It really doesn't feel that bad.

I watched Hugo vs Armada at Apex 2012. Went to game 3, last stock. Why do you guys think it's so good? Stop running into her moves. DI away. Stay back and wait for your moment, she's a slow character.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I don't mind Peach thus far at the skill level I face most often. I just hate being pressured on the edge against her.

Off topic: Dear fellow Samus' what are some of your worst bad habits?

 

[bubbaking]

Jumping OoS instead of WDing OoS.

Edit: Especially when platforms are around. I just autopilot and WL on the platform to escape pressure instead of doing the smart thing and switching it up.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Jumping OoS instead of WDing OoS.

Peach teaches me this the hard way.