EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Knut]

so anyone ever mess around with FJ weak charge shot > FF Smash Missile?
it's much quicker than FJDM.
maybe do a SHMC approach, and then use it as you start to move in.
the fact that you loose air momentum from the charge shot is pretty cool.
i'm thinking it could be used to bluff an aerial approach and you could then FF with a missile or nair in someones face if they go to run under you. or they take a charge shot to the face if they jump at you, and you could FF Fair, to start up a combo. i'm sure it could be used as a pretty effective edge guarding tool or just plain old spam, but i feel like it could be more versatile than that. anyone have any thoughts?

i'm gonna experiment with it today when i play one of my friends and see if i can find some cool uses for it.

 

[ycz12]

Also @Robin, you CAN recover on poke like you can on FoD, but it is much more difficult.

Really? Even if you don't have your double jump? Because there are generally much better things to do if you have your double jump (rising grapple cancel, mainly).

 

[McNinja]

Oh idk if you can do it without a dj. When Robin asked if you could recover like you could on FoD, I just assumed he meant just be able to wall jump the bottom pillar and up b to the ledge.

I'm sure you would need a double jump though.

Oh and @bubba, I'm suprised you like PS versus spacies. I like/love it against Falco, but Fox? That ceiling is mad low.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, I actually like it more against Fox than against Falco. Lasers are dumb, and I feel that Falco edge-cancelling his phantasm into bair/dair (has already happened to me several times) is much more dangerous than when Fox does it. You just have to avoid getting hit by uair/usmash. Remember to DI properly for combos and always jump out of Fox's uthrow if he comes after you. IMO, Fox has a harder time dealing with missile spam on PS because his counter-camp game (lasers) isn't as good.

Edit: I can reasonably use my missiles to approach against Fox, whereas Falco can cut all my work short with lasers, and PS's neutral transformation lets him do this pretty well, and they also mess up platform missile camping.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Really? Even if you don't have your double jump? Because there are generally much better things to do if you have your double jump (rising grapple cancel, mainly).

When I asked this, it was more for just general knowledge/curiosity but I wonder if it could be put to use. I've encountered plenty of times where an opponent unfamiliar with the MU sees me going way below FoD thinking I'm stalling so he goes off showing how good he is at L-canceling, double lasering, etc. then all of a sudden: tether -> walljump -> upB and boom I'm back.

The camera angle on PS does suck =p Also how much do you guys think I could sell a used wii for on craigslist? I want a cube, so much easier to hook up and get going.

Got r8ped by Ganon and had some trouble with Falco tonight. Not too worried on going back and watching how I played though. I still play a bit too aggro and don't respect certain characters the way I should.

Edit: I think I'm a lazy smasher and don't try 100%, 100% of the time. Has anyone else had this problem? I guess this is why money matches were created lol. I think I also have this force holding me back sometimes. Like sometimes in a mu, I know an opponent may have trouble navigating around SERIOUS missile spam, but I opt not to do so because the playstyle might be "stale" "campy" etc. I think it's time I show no mercy and go for the win 100% of the time.

 

[Violence]

I think you'd have to do a double walljump, but in theory, it seems possible.

 

[GunPunch]

what? you want to sell your wii? doesn't everyone enjoy having to get out that amazing wiimote, pointing at your screen, and THEN playing some melee? and what if you want to play some brawl! lol

i def am lazy some of the time when i play. it usually only happens if i'm crushing my opponent though. and in that case, i try to set goals. like, "i want to 2-stock or 3-stock him this match." as for laziness with the missile spam, i have a big problem with that too. i like to play a bit more aggressive, which isn't always the winning tactic. i really think it is just that camping with missile is perceive as a lame tactic/style. i have no problem using other set-ups and style repetitively. i will downsmash > whatever > the same edgeguard all day long if my opponent cant handle it. it's just as repetitive but somehow doesn't SEEM as lame. when something works, i need to use it to it's max...no matter how "lame." so, yea. i need to work on this too.

as for PS, i guess i just look at it in the wrong way. i do like the platforms for missile spam, but while short platform are useful for utilts and stuff, they also allow the same benefit to other characters. also i feel that the transformations limit my mobility. samus floats and i feel that i get outmaneuvered a lot on the transformations (which probably my fault). i also hate all the additional platforms that can get me stuck above my opponent and juggled for longer than normal. and of course, the dimensions of the stage annoy me. i can't get super quick kills off the side like on yoshi's and the ceiling is nice and low. idk, i suppose it does benefit samus, but i feel that i also benifits other character in the same ways, sometimes even more than it benefits samus.

EDIT: i think it would be interesting to have a poll of Samus player's favorite stages. but MU also matters, so idk

 

[bubbaking]

@iRobbinhood: Actually, I'd recommend NOT getting rid of your wii. If you hack it and put BootMii on it, you can play your games without a sensor bar. I actually lost my sensor bar (and all my wiimotes) a while back, but I still play Project M and Melee on my Wii with no problem. Also, if you don't want to go to the trouble of hacking your Wii (it's really not that hard, though), you can just buy a Classic Controller. It controls the pointer just like a regular controller.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So a classic controller can control the pointer? For the longest of times there was rumors going around that you could do it with the GC but that turned out to be myth unless it was hacked or something.

@GunPunch Make the poll. I'll vote.

Last night I read every mindgame/tactic/strategy guide on SWF. Mind = Blown.

 

[Violence]

I would just missile spam until it shows it's overwhelmingly effective, then tuck it under my belt and use different tactics.

Once you are proficient at something to the point where you're beating people near your level with it consistently, there's probably something else to work on.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I need to show no mercy. Ahh listening to the Metroid Prime soundtrack whilst practicing Samus stuffs, the good life.

 

[Violence]

The moment friendlies become about playing to win over playing to improve, you will hit a wall.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Hmm good point.

 

[bubbaking]

Word, I really had to break myself from that desire in order to get myself out of the rut I was in.

So a classic controller can control the pointer? For the longest of times there was rumors going around that you could do it with the GC but that turned out to be myth unless it was hacked or something.

Yeah, I'm actually using one now, lolz! Whenever I need to do something in the Wii menu, like move data, I use the Classic Controller, but if I just want to play GC or Wii games, like Melee or Project M, I just use BootMii. It requires nothing other than the power button on your wii and a GCN controller.

 

[R3N0]

practice your speed and efficiency when you're alone so you CAN do the stuff you need to, when you need to, but slow it down when you play friendlies. there may be little things you're overlooking. reno telling me that i move around too much is one of the best critiques i have gotten from someone. not gonna front, i was confused as hell at first when he said it, but i get it now (or at least i think i do).

i guess what i gathered from it all is that samus can apply some really awkward pressure just by occupying certain places on stages. a lot of the time i would just do the first thing that came to mind, which was usually to press buttons and think later. i hadn't realized it, but i was giving up this pressure by moving around, trying to use speed to outsmart my opponent, and that doesn't work all that well. by slowing it down a bit, i've better at mind gaming, baiting, spacing, reading, all that stuff. the tech skill is all still there, i'm just applying it differently.

idk if this is exactly relevant to what your talking about. i figured i'd throw it out there though, since its been like super beneficial for me.

im proud <3

 

[iRobinhoood]

Someone explain to me how Ganon vs. Samus is in our favor ಠ_ಠ

Just watched a ton of Samus vs. Ganon vids and the MU either goes barely even or an impatient Ganon kills himself trying to gimp Samus offstage putting it in Samus' favor. The only exception was Plup/Linguini at Advent II which Plup won by overwhelming missile spam, good baiting, and solid edgeguarding.

 

[bubbaking]

Whoever said that MU is in our favor? For a time, some people thought that was one of Samus' worst MUs. IMO, I think it goes even. It depends on the stage and the positioning. Ganon can make things really hard in CQC, but Samus can make it really hard for Ganon to get in.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I can't remember where, but Plup once said in a comment on a Youtube video that the MU heavily favors Samus What's the final vote even?

Ganon (ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻

 

[ThePrime]

wasssup samus homies

ganon is a greezer no doubt

the MU is in samus favor when theres a projectile on the screen. It's hilarious actually. Especially when you start mixing up with just grounded smash missles, the key is to find the right spacing so u can shoot them safely while being able to punish certain reactions if those situations arise. All ganon can do is shield the missle or jump over it, if he does anything else it won't matter because samus has an answer to it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Got to tighten up my missile spam then. Getting the timing down for full hop double missiles. Also getting more consistent at Samus' short hop which is a lot harder than I thought it'd be. Super wavedash is at around 60% efficiency.

 

[abcool]

Yo, Prime that was really good a few months back when you went to the UK and placed top 3 lol. You fell apart in LF vs professor pro though lol

 

[GunPunch]

Friendlies are def about improving. I turned my roommates into shield-grabbing manics (because i was really bad about getting shield-grabbed). I still try to stay in their face, but I've got a lot better at shield pressure and proper spacing on shields. Even if missile spamming works, hopefully your opponents (if you play against the same people) will learn to deal with the spam. Then you will be forced to adapt to whatever they're doing. It's def okay to have bit of a "no mercy" strategy. I think that's a good mindset to practice in. But in friendlies, you really want to have you and your opponent adapting, back and forth. I think that's were some serious improvement can happen. You can/should even give your opponent help on how to beat the missile spam if they're having a lot of trouble...maybe. idk, that's kinda what i think.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Renth on Samus/Ganon 12/21/12

Hmm anybody up for making a Samus Index Thread?

 

[bubbaking]

Right before that, BlackChris said that he feels the MU is even. On a related note, something I've had some success with is upB'ing in CQC whenever I feel the urge to spot-dodge (sometimes, not all the time). I've practically been able to react to every stomp with an upB. If you like to spot-dodge, I really don't think you should do it as much in this MU. It's often better to just hold your shield up. Ganon can reliably combo his grabs into big damage/kills but his grab range sucks and should be pretty avoidable.

 

[ThePrime]

Yo, Prime that was really good a few months back when you went to the UK and placed top 3 lol. You fell apart in LF vs professor pro though lol

ha yeah i got super impatient and tried to force to many things. Definitely learned stuff from playing him.

It's often better to just hold your shield up.

nah dude

who am i seein at apex? Darrell, Duck?

 

[DarrellD]

Nnnmooooppppppppeeeeee

 

[Geist]

New funniest thing ever: shield DIing falco's laser > grab and teleporting behind him as he grasps at nothing

 

[bubbaking]

How does that even work? You can SSDI Falco's lasers that much? How poorly is this Falco spacing his grabs?

 

[Geist]

pretty poorly
that's why it's funny
also doing it right after dashing forward actually gives decent results

 

[iRobinhoood]

How does that even work? You can SSDI Falco's lasers that much? How poorly is this Falco spacing his grabs?

What's SSDI? Shield Smash DI? Is there such a thing? Can I auto smash DI with the c-stick this type of DI? I guess have the c-stick facing toward Falco during the shield stun from the laser?

 

[bubbaking]

SSDI = Shield Smash DI. Yes there is such a thing. I'm not sure on the specifics but it often happens to me when I try to roll (with other chars) while still in shieldstun.

 

[Violence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53t9fDzdCyw

 

[iRobinhoood]

Sometimes when I double jump quickly to uair on FoD I just land on the top platform without the attack actually coming out. What gives.

 

[abcool]

Sometimes when I double jump quickly to uair on FoD I just land on the top platform without the attack actually coming out. What gives.

That is an advanced tech called aerial interrupt. It's like a faster waveland without the 10 frames of lag. Another Samus main will come in here and explain it further or just look up a video on it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Well I've inadvertently gotten pretty good at it on FoD and it's making me mad lol

 

[bubbaking]

It's also called an autocancel, I believe, and it has somewhere from only 2 to 4 frames of landing lag, as opposed to the move's normal 7 frames of L-cancelled landing lag. It's actually really useful if you can learn how to use it consistently, but it can be annoying if you get it accidentally in situations such as the one you mentioned. Knut and Pi have found some REALLY interesting applications for this tech, both from the ledge and on plats. Hopefully, they (well, only Knut, I guess) come in here and expand more on them.

Edit - Alright, here's what I found on the ledge applications:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13430913#post13430913

 

[McNinja]

That is an advanced tech called aerial interrupt. It's like a faster waveland without the 10 frames of lag. Another Samus main will come in here and explain it further or just look up a video on it.

Yeah I've known about it for awhile but never used it. Although now that I've learned you can ledgehop autocancel, I've been using it a ton.

Basically, instead of wavelanding onto stage, you Uair at just the right time and you immediately teleport to the top of the ledge, retaining more invinsibility frames than you would if you had tried to waveland.

So yeah. Take that Marth and all your stupid edge guards.

Edit: well I shouldn't say you "retain" more invinsibily frames. You have the same amount, you can just act out of those frames faster and use them to your advantage.

 

[bubbaking]

Since Knut never came, I'll just elaborate on one of the really good applications of the uair autocancel: plat tactics, including tech-chasing and applying pressure. Samus uair autocancel is really easy to set up on BF, and I believe on YS as well, although harder than on BF (and not as necessary since Samus reaches those plats in a single SH anyway). While SHing, during the entire part of the hop's arc where Samus's midsection is going through the plat (about half of the entire SH's duration), if she uairs, she will automatically AC the uair. No timing or precision is really required and you can do it out of any SH, whether you're standing still or running. The same goes for SHs from the lower plats to under the top plat. In addition, Samus can easily AC her uair on the top plat from a walk/run-off > instant DJ under the top plat. It's a little harder to pull off but still pretty easy.

Applications? Well, for one, this AC uair landing (4 frames) is way faster than a WL (10 frames), meaning you get better and more useful TCs. SH uair AC > dsmash is a piece of cake. For instance, I remember watching a match of Darrel vs a Jiggs (forget who) on BF and he dthrew or fthrew the Jiggs (I forget which) and the Jiggs immediately landed on the BF plat. Darrel didn't really get a chance to follow up because I believe WL was too slow. However, a SH uair AC tech-chase probably would have caught that Jiggs easily. That was just an example. In addition, you can use this to get on the same level of a shielding opponent on a plat and apply pressure or surprise him with a grab though this method.

I'm leaving it up to you guys to find more applications for this tech and share them with the rest of us. I'm expecting this tech to make BF so much better for us and I've really gotta thank Knut for showing this to me.

Edit: This tech might be harder to do out of backwards SH's because I believe Samus contorts her body and makes it harder to nail the AC, but it's child's play out of any other SH.

 

[iRobinhoood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MxHPn2B6qnI#t=118s

Gonna try this in some friendlies.

 

[GunPunch]

Thanks for explaining the auto-cancelled uair Bubbaking. I'm def going to have to practice that and try to apply it to my game.

Also, that Samus combo was INSANE! Seeing things like that reminds me of how many possibilities there are. I need to get more creative in my friendly matches.