EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Well thats why i put the () saying maybe just fox, not sure about the falco mu. But i also said billy finds the fox mu to be close to even not just fox's. Plus u seem to think its close to even as well so i dont understand why u would disagree with what i am saying.

Also fox gets nothing guaranteed off of a throw on samus so i dont believe him being fast and grabbing is that big of deal

 

[iRobinhoood]

Edit: A nice quote that actually describes this MU even though it's from a Brawl player :

Obviously, replace MK with Fox.

Epic quote was epic.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I still can't get this down angled tilt infinite grab that knut was talking about. Can someone like draw up something quick in MS paint? lol

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I just realized that this is basically a long island social thread

 

[iRobinhoood]

Yes it is smuckers lol. In the spring 50% of my time is going to be spent out at Farmingdale for school lol. Hey BenGrimm is it? and Knut what part of LI are you guys at?

 

[bubbaking]

Well thats why i put the () saying maybe just fox, not sure about the falco mu. But i also said billy finds the fox mu to be close to even not just fox's. Plus u seem to think its close to even as well so i dont understand why u would disagree with what i am saying.

My original post was summing up the general opinions that I've read from most of the Samuses on this thread, not just my own. I personally agree with you, but the majority does not necessarily agree. That's why I said "arguably". All of Samus's other (important) MUs are slight disadvantages or very close to even, IMO.

Also fox gets nothing guaranteed off of a throw on samus so i dont believe him being fast and grabbing is that big of deal

You underestimate the power of forcing Samus to use her DJ, especially when she has such trouble getting down. Haven't you ever wondered why Foxes ALWAYS go for the uthrow > uair on Samus, even though she can reliably DJ out? If she tries to do anything else, she gets hit and possibly killed by uair. If she jumps, oh well, Fox doesn't lose anything and now Samus has to try to get down against one of the fastest chars in the game whom also happens to be decent at juggling people. I've tried getting around this by bombing after being uthrown. You know what happens? If the Fox is on point, I die. If the Fox screws up a little, I save myself, and my DJ, with the bomb, but that's only if the Fox messes up. Also, don't forget that Fox has dthrow > TC usmash which puts him at practically no risk if he misses the TC.

Fox gets great things off of throws; they're just not 'guaranteed' like Falcon's and Ganon's are. IMO, Fox's grab game against Samus is even worse than a bunch of other chars 'cause you're almost undoubtedly going to have to shield a lot against him, and shinegrabs are a thing, you know. They're bad enough that they gave HugS a serious headache when he still played this game.

Tl;dr - Fox's grabs ARE that big of a deal.

 

[abcool]

I think her worst matchups are Sheik/Marth. The matchup with Falcon can be much easier if you can deal with his crappy recovery. Same with all other FF's if you have a really decent edgegame and a solid recovery the matches can drag out, but you play Samus, so take your time. I feel Marth and Sheik, especially Sheik gives her the most problems because she has an answer to everything Samus accels at recovery, projectiles, range. Sheik can't safely put starter damage on Samus unless it is from a grab though. Marth's range and aerials abuse makes it a little hard, but throwing out missiles and zoning helps make his job a lot more tougher. Regardless i feel Samus is has more potential.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Critiquers my Samus in doubles and singles tonight <3

http://www.twitch.tv/ticosmash

Gravity Samus and some Green ICs. Mostly Samus though of course =)

 

[DarrellD]

I would say fox is samus's hardest and easiest mu. Just depends on what they know and how bad they way to win.

And falco just has a rough life, so idk if he really wins anything if you can power shield a laser or two.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Falco recovering low has a pretty rough life lol.

 

[bubbaking]

Any spacee recovering low has a pretty hard tough life. Utilt says, "NOPE!"

 

[iRobinhoood]

utilt lol love that move. I think I just use it sometimes in the wrong situations. Like sometimes I utilt when someone is way too close to me and either the attack doesn't come out in time or it hits a shield and is a bit laggy but close enough to get punished.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, definitely work on your spacing. Lag should not be a problem with utilt because I believe it has less lag than ftilt (gonna have to check this), so it's a good mix-up option for pressure. The trade-off is greater startup which you already pointed out.

Edit: Just checked.
Ftilt comes out on frame 6 and has 22 frames of lag as well as a shieldstun value of 11. It's -17 on block (when spaced).
Utilt comes out on frame 14 and has 18 frames of lag as well as a shieldstun value of 13. It's -10 on block (when spaced).

As you can see, ftilt comes out much faster but utilt is much safer on shield (and whiff) when spaced. Nothing can really punish Samus within the 10 frames of disadvantage that she's in, since she should be out of shieldgrab range (if you spaced correctly), and a WD OoS takes at least 14 frames (4 frame jumpsquat + 10 frames of WL lag).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Yes it is smuckers lol. In the spring 50% of my time is going to be spent out at Farmingdale for school lol. Hey BenGrimm is it? and Knut what part of LI are you guys at?

I live in nassau, knut lives like 15 or 20 mins away from farmingdale (i think) and we normally play at his place anyway. Also wings over farmingdale

@at smuckers: yea this did sort of turn into a LI social thread (but is that really a bad thing?

 

[bubbaking]

Nassau's a big place... Technically, Knut lives in Nassau too, as did I. -_-

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Nassau's a big place... Technically, Knut lives in Nassau too, as did I. -_-

Good point, i meant to say nassau north shore about 30 mins away from farmingdale

 

[bubbaking]

I lived in Baldwin, but those days are gone now...

Edit: Lolz! I forgot that info is right on my profile pic.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Might need some numbers if I got nothing to do after classes

 

[Knut]

i actually live about 10 minutes away from Fdale College. we'll definitely have to chill this spring bro.

 

[DarrellD]

Yeah, definitely work on your spacing. Lag should not be a problem with utilt because I believe it has less lag than ftilt (gonna have to check this), so it's a good mix-up option for pressure. The trade-off is greater startup which you already pointed out.

Edit: Just checked.
Ftilt comes out on frame 6 and has 22 frames of lag as well as a shieldstun value of 11. It's -17 on block (when spaced).
Utilt comes out on frame 14 and has 18 frames of lag as well as a shieldstun value of 13. It's -10 on block (when spaced).

As you can see, ftilt comes out much faster but utilt is much safer on shield (and whiff) when spaced. Nothing can really punish Samus within the 10 frames of disadvantage that she's in, since she should be out of shieldgrab range (if you spaced correctly), and a WD OoS takes at least 14 frames (4 frame jumpsquat + 10 frames of WL lag).

One day, I'm going to understand this frame data ****

 

[bubbaking]

I still can't get this down angled tilt infinite grab that knut was talking about. Can someone like draw up something quick in MS paint? lol

"Infinite grab"? O_o

Might need some numbers if I got nothing to do after classes

PMs?!? I'll probably be up in NY sometimes to visit and such.

 

[iRobinhoood]

One day, I'm going to understand this frame data ****

You and me both lol.

"Infinite grab"? O_o

I meant infinite jab*

 

[bubbaking]

I think you need to set the control stick in the back and away notch during your first jab and then keep jabbing. Idk, I've never really used that method before. I believe that method is also a way to perform dash-cancelled jabs. Metroid was telling me about using that before.....

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'll try back and away. I'd been trying back and forward after the first jab and she would just crouch dtilt.

EDIT: just saw this posted in the Official Q&A thread. Thoughts?

samus can CG pika and pichu

Also, going to go practice some Samus movement and stuffs.

Edit2: I think one of the more reasons I enjoy playing Samus is not only because I loved the Metroid games for Gamecube but also because of my fascination with Mech/Mecha/Gundam/Robots etc. haha

Not sure if any other Samus can relate, but here's the new Pacific Rim Trailer that just came out. Looks AWESOME.

EDIT3(to avoid post spam warnings): Samus boards be dead lately, but that normally changes though during the weekend. Everyone's at tourneys or with family. If there's any more Sami up and around the New York area add me on FB or something: https://www.facebook.com/Robinhoood

 

[abcool]

I hope you guys saw Darrell beating Westballz Falco yesterday in some friendlies. They were close, but he still managed. I told you guys recovery and edgeguarding plays in a big role in fighting fastfallers. Matches play at a faster pace aswell. Sheik and Marth on the other hand is like uhhhh. I like all matchups though.

 

[bubbaking]

I'll try back and away. I'd been trying back and forward after the first jab and she would just crouch dtilt.

So I just came back from a bit of playing Melee with Sypher and some dudes, and I must say that I have a pretty easy time just pressing down for the crouch-cancelled jabs. I can do it with pretty much every character, like Link and Doc, too, so either I'm really attuned to every char's jab timing or.....idk. I tried the back and away method and it's hard for me, I guess because I'm just not used to it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I think the back and away method is worth it to learn. It's way more consistent and like twice as fast.

 

[bubbaking]

I actually have no problem now going at max speed with just down, tbh.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I have found all mechanics in melee to be totally preferential. It should be which ever way you feel most comfortable with. With that said do you guys use different buttons to wd and shield with? I shield and also wd oos with just the R button. I also L cancel with it. I've just gotten so used to it.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I am not a samus so idk why i am here, but i use R for everything except wavedashing oos

 

[bubbaking]

I used to use R for everything except for shielding when I want to WD OoS (I would transfer trigger buttons while shielding). Now I'm just like Ben, lolz!

 

[iRobinhoood]

I might try the switch tactic just because its more practical then shielding with R, jump, R, to wd oos. Althought I have gotten pretty fast with it.

 

[bubbaking]

I wouldn't recommend it. I switched off of that method for a reason (perhaps my previous post was unclear). It's way too complicated to switch trigger fingers while shielding just to WD OoS. It's way better, IMO, to just learn how to WD with L when you wanna WD OoS. You only need to do it once per shield anyway. You can even just WD OoS with L and then do the consecutive WDs with R. It's your choice, though. Preference is always best. Tbh, I actually just switched off that method yesterday.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Welp, don't want to start bad habits lol. Hmm wd oos with L. Might give it a go tonight.

 

[abcool]

I use all of my buttons to play Melee. I shield with L/waveland/L cancel. An with R i wavedash only. I jump with Y and wavedash with X. I think it's because i started off with Fox/Marth then i picked up Samus couple of years later.

 

[bubbaking]

So you WL with L but you WD with R? That's interesting. Personally, I never use Y unless I want to do the insta-DJ MC on DL64's plats, and I never use L unless I want to WD OoS. However, I use the control stick for most of my FH's, so I guess I'm a weird case.

 

[abcool]

It may sound weird, but it made Samus so much more smoother for me. I don't know why i waveland with L lol. Wavedashing OOS is soo easy for me lol. Shff missile is hard for me though. The missile platform thing is simple; jump with the joystick and then immediately tap Y.

 

[bubbaking]

It's somewhat hard for me to go from up on the control stick to sideways for the missile without screwing up the inputs somewhere, kinda similar to how SHHMC's often end up in bombs instead of missiles.

 

[abcool]

Yeah, i had to get use to it. I might try double tap Y to see if it is easier. I wish i could SWD at will though.

 

[Knut]

if your controller isn't broken in for them, SHFFMC are like the hardest techs to do in the whole game IMO. once you you do break it in though, they're pretty easy. i just press down..then roll the stick left or right, sorta like im doing a haduken.