Knut
Smash Apprentice
its all good man. i was feelin bad cuz i didn't get to say bye to you or anyone else really. glad you made it out though. it was great seein you and playin.
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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
bubbaking
Smash Hero
You finally changed your tag on here? 
Knut
Smash Apprentice
lol yea. i was in florida and i wanted to sign in to message someone but i couldn't remember the password/email i used for KWC lol. so i figured why not. i been wanting to make a new one anyways >_<
whats good for the stony brook tourny too? that still going down?
whats good for the stony brook tourny too? that still going down?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Indeed. December 1st. Melee and P:M, Doubles and Singles. We're looking to see a lot of activity from all over the island and NY. You should def try and make it if you can. 
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
There's a tournament at Stony Brook? Link plz.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Knut
Smash Apprentice
werd. i'll be there homie.
Violence
Smash Lord
I feel like I've come to realize the importance of contrast.
As you get better, you play better opponents, and many times, you'll, without trying to, condition a response out of them. This is because they pick up on a certain pattern or yours, consciously or not, and they respond with some option.
Of course, us Samuses being the kind of people we are, try to pick up on their patterns and punish them accordingly. But then you see Hugo make some kind of sick hard read that you never would've expected, and you go... how'd he do that?
This is commonly seen when high level Samuses get ridiculous grabs that no one thinks should work. A lot of lower level Samuses, myself included, don't have a good explanation of why these reads work. How did he know the opponent was going to shield there? I watched the opponent too, he didn't shield in that situation before, was it just some kind of transcendant read?
I was watching the wrong player.
Top players, mentally, are aware of their own movements and habits. They make little changes to contrast what they do so that the same option their opponent throws out doesn't cover both things.
People refer to conditioning a lot, but this is completely separate.
For example, let's take some of Westballz shield pressure. Dair->double shine->waveshine in place->doubleshine->wavedash back
By changing the rhythm of his shines, Wes purposely lets his opponent have the opportunity to do something out of shield, and sets up an option to cover that. He sometimes will sometimes double shine->wave doubleshine, etc etc, his pressure has many variations, and the reason is contrast. Because of his options, there isn't an out of shield option in the game that you can use to beat all of his pressure choices.
This concept is embodied in Mango as well. Why is it that no one can shield pressure like Mango?
At least, part of it, I think, comes from the fact that he's a high level floaty. He's taken the concept of contrast that we use to pressure people normally, and applied it to Fox. His movement is confusing, and the aerials he throws out all have different timings for punishments, it's hard to beat simply because there's no simple way to do it, his pressure is very close to completely gray. It doesn't focus on one move, or one option, or one thing.
I think that if you're already a technically sound Samus who understands spacing and knows matchups decently, the next step would be to start to understand your own movement, how it affects your opponent, and use that to develop contrasting patterns.
Just look at Hugo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjlc1k2qxs0#t=3m59s
Technical flub aside, Hugo got away clean from the dsmash. Now he knows his opponent will have a high likelyhood of shielding, or coming in for an attack because of his previous dancing. He doesn't have to observe his opponent, he just looks at his previous actions, and from that, he surmises what his opponent will do next. He's been weaving in and out, he just made a technical error. A lot of times, that's a trigger for the player to come in. However, his opponent whiffed a dsmash, which puts him at frame disadvantage, and players when they whiff a move, have a tendency to shield(this assumption is often absent in Shroomed, which is my theory as to why Hugo started to lose to Shroomed, he got baited with whiffed moves). So Hugo wavedashes back in, to make it look like his previous pattern, and then instantly deviates with a grab, contrasting his previous options of jab cancel, tilt, and dsmash, all of which would've been punished by shield. It wasn't really a sick read, or a crazy grab, it was just Hugo realizing that he'd been doing things that shielding is good against, and it was time to do something that shielding wasn't good against. The fact that the opponent didn't shield is irrelevant because the grab covered ground approach options as well.
Anyways, if I'm wrong about this, Hugo, lemme know, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
tl;dr a lot of smart plays can be made by watching the opponent and reacting accordingly, but smart plays can also come from watching your own patterns and choosing options that can't be covered with the same options from your opponent.
As you get better, you play better opponents, and many times, you'll, without trying to, condition a response out of them. This is because they pick up on a certain pattern or yours, consciously or not, and they respond with some option.
Of course, us Samuses being the kind of people we are, try to pick up on their patterns and punish them accordingly. But then you see Hugo make some kind of sick hard read that you never would've expected, and you go... how'd he do that?
This is commonly seen when high level Samuses get ridiculous grabs that no one thinks should work. A lot of lower level Samuses, myself included, don't have a good explanation of why these reads work. How did he know the opponent was going to shield there? I watched the opponent too, he didn't shield in that situation before, was it just some kind of transcendant read?
I was watching the wrong player.
Top players, mentally, are aware of their own movements and habits. They make little changes to contrast what they do so that the same option their opponent throws out doesn't cover both things.
People refer to conditioning a lot, but this is completely separate.
For example, let's take some of Westballz shield pressure. Dair->double shine->waveshine in place->doubleshine->wavedash back
By changing the rhythm of his shines, Wes purposely lets his opponent have the opportunity to do something out of shield, and sets up an option to cover that. He sometimes will sometimes double shine->wave doubleshine, etc etc, his pressure has many variations, and the reason is contrast. Because of his options, there isn't an out of shield option in the game that you can use to beat all of his pressure choices.
This concept is embodied in Mango as well. Why is it that no one can shield pressure like Mango?
At least, part of it, I think, comes from the fact that he's a high level floaty. He's taken the concept of contrast that we use to pressure people normally, and applied it to Fox. His movement is confusing, and the aerials he throws out all have different timings for punishments, it's hard to beat simply because there's no simple way to do it, his pressure is very close to completely gray. It doesn't focus on one move, or one option, or one thing.
I think that if you're already a technically sound Samus who understands spacing and knows matchups decently, the next step would be to start to understand your own movement, how it affects your opponent, and use that to develop contrasting patterns.
Just look at Hugo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjlc1k2qxs0#t=3m59s
Technical flub aside, Hugo got away clean from the dsmash. Now he knows his opponent will have a high likelyhood of shielding, or coming in for an attack because of his previous dancing. He doesn't have to observe his opponent, he just looks at his previous actions, and from that, he surmises what his opponent will do next. He's been weaving in and out, he just made a technical error. A lot of times, that's a trigger for the player to come in. However, his opponent whiffed a dsmash, which puts him at frame disadvantage, and players when they whiff a move, have a tendency to shield(this assumption is often absent in Shroomed, which is my theory as to why Hugo started to lose to Shroomed, he got baited with whiffed moves). So Hugo wavedashes back in, to make it look like his previous pattern, and then instantly deviates with a grab, contrasting his previous options of jab cancel, tilt, and dsmash, all of which would've been punished by shield. It wasn't really a sick read, or a crazy grab, it was just Hugo realizing that he'd been doing things that shielding is good against, and it was time to do something that shielding wasn't good against. The fact that the opponent didn't shield is irrelevant because the grab covered ground approach options as well.
Anyways, if I'm wrong about this, Hugo, lemme know, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
tl;dr a lot of smart plays can be made by watching the opponent and reacting accordingly, but smart plays can also come from watching your own patterns and choosing options that can't be covered with the same options from your opponent.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Great read violence.
Violence
Smash Lord
<3
We have a lot to talk about when I get back, I feel like I'm starting to understand things.
We have a lot to talk about when I get back, I feel like I'm starting to understand things.
Violence
Smash Lord
Pshhhhhhhhhhhhh
I have like 3 tiers of Samus player to go through before I start touching that.
Maybe if I can even start top 5'ing locals.
I have like 3 tiers of Samus player to go through before I start touching that.
Maybe if I can even start top 5'ing locals.
Geist
Smash Master
we will plup together violence
team samus 4lyfe
team samus 4lyfe
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Hello Sami, noticed some NEW Samus players at NEC 13' on stream not sure if they post here or not but shoutouts to them anyway.
Having trouble against Ganons. I would post gameplay but I feel my Samus isn't at 100% but tonight I'll be playing harder so I'll have gameplay for that. Gonna watch some Samus/Ganon gameplay if I can find on youtube. Any general ideas? So far I've learned not to roll dodge but you shouldn't roll dodge ever imo.
Having trouble against Ganons. I would post gameplay but I feel my Samus isn't at 100% but tonight I'll be playing harder so I'll have gameplay for that. Gonna watch some Samus/Ganon gameplay if I can find on youtube. Any general ideas? So far I've learned not to roll dodge but you shouldn't roll dodge ever imo.
abcool
Smash Ace
I heard plup say once to just camp with Missiles and bait the ganon to commit to something and intercept him; He may come in here and explain it further. Here is a VERY good vid to watch http://youtu.be/f90FmqKF05E
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO that was the first match I thought of watching when thinking of the Ganon mu. I had seen this match b4 but need to go back to it. Thanks for the link!
Geist
Smash Master
Out of genuine curiosity plup, what is it you're doing to FF nair from plats so quickly
For any other character I'd be using Z but there's problems with that I obviously don't have to state so I wont
For any other character I'd be using Z but there's problems with that I obviously don't have to state so I wont
Pluplue
Smash Ace
idk what you mean exactly, but I just press down then a then down again to ff nair.
abcool
Smash Ace
You do this to nair an opponent and remain on the platform?
Pluplue
Smash Ace
is that what he asked? all I do for that is just press down and then nair 1 or 2 frames after you start dropping through. You have to hit something with the nair for it to work, though.
Geist
Smash Master
Nah I can do the nair cancel, but you seem to get a ff much faster off the bat than I do, usually if I try to immediately ff nair I dair instead
I was just wondering if you like drop through first, nair, then fast fall, or double tap to drop and fastfall, then nair, or what
I was just wondering if you like drop through first, nair, then fast fall, or double tap to drop and fastfall, then nair, or what
Pluplue
Smash Ace
It's just knowing the timing when you can fast fall. Here's where I say "The more you practice the better you get" but yeah that. When I practice I play as quickly and smoothly as I possibly can. There's no reason to play slower than you can be playing.
And if you say "Playing slow and reactive is it's own play-style" then why not play fast and reactive.
And if you say "Playing slow and reactive is it's own play-style" then why not play fast and reactive.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
1. I play too agro with Samus. I need to learn to change the tempo of the match.
2. I think I need to break-down exactly how I play the game. I think I've programmed my mind to think "the faster I mash buttons, randomly and without fluidity, will yield the greatest results" When in fact it yields poor results. I can play slow just not THAT fast yet. And when I try to play this "fast" Samus, things start to go bad again.
2. I think I need to break-down exactly how I play the game. I think I've programmed my mind to think "the faster I mash buttons, randomly and without fluidity, will yield the greatest results" When in fact it yields poor results. I can play slow just not THAT fast yet. And when I try to play this "fast" Samus, things start to go bad again.
Knut
Smash Apprentice
practice your speed and efficiency when you're alone so you CAN do the stuff you need to, when you need to, but slow it down when you play friendlies. there may be little things you're overlooking. reno telling me that i move around too much is one of the best critiques i have gotten from someone. not gonna front, i was confused as hell at first when he said it, but i get it now (or at least i think i do).
i guess what i gathered from it all is that samus can apply some really awkward pressure just by occupying certain places on stages. a lot of the time i would just do the first thing that came to mind, which was usually to press buttons and think later. i hadn't realized it, but i was giving up this pressure by moving around, trying to use speed to outsmart my opponent, and that doesn't work all that well. by slowing it down a bit, i've better at mind gaming, baiting, spacing, reading, all that stuff. the tech skill is all still there, i'm just applying it differently.
idk if this is exactly relevant to what your talking about. i figured i'd throw it out there though, since its been like super beneficial for me.
i guess what i gathered from it all is that samus can apply some really awkward pressure just by occupying certain places on stages. a lot of the time i would just do the first thing that came to mind, which was usually to press buttons and think later. i hadn't realized it, but i was giving up this pressure by moving around, trying to use speed to outsmart my opponent, and that doesn't work all that well. by slowing it down a bit, i've better at mind gaming, baiting, spacing, reading, all that stuff. the tech skill is all still there, i'm just applying it differently.
idk if this is exactly relevant to what your talking about. i figured i'd throw it out there though, since its been like super beneficial for me.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
That actually helped a lot. Good read.
Violence
Smash Lord
That really sunk in for me when I watched Spaceballs vs HugS playing friendlies at Genesis 2.
They were moving exactly the same speed, Hugo was just moving SECOND, and he was just always reacting.
Hugo doesn't use his style because he doesn't have tech skill, he just uses his tech skill in bursts, and waits for the right time to make his decisions, which he applies with his tech skill. Spaceballs was moving faster for more often, but he was losing out because Hugo was just reacting with efficient, simple punishes. It was a really good ditto to watch.
They were moving exactly the same speed, Hugo was just moving SECOND, and he was just always reacting.
Hugo doesn't use his style because he doesn't have tech skill, he just uses his tech skill in bursts, and waits for the right time to make his decisions, which he applies with his tech skill. Spaceballs was moving faster for more often, but he was losing out because Hugo was just reacting with efficient, simple punishes. It was a really good ditto to watch.
Knut
Smash Apprentice
i could only imagine. i would love to have watched them two play.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Posting everywhere on the Samus boards so I can get critique from as many people as possible. I recently entered a tournament with our favorite heroine. Could I please get some constructive criticism?
Bubbaking (Samus) vs GrapeApe (Sheik)
Bubbaking (Samus) vs Phish-it (DK) (only the first match, 'cause I chicken out to Sheik and get bopped even though I brought Phish-it to last stock decent %'s with Samus; sorry for the pretty bad quality of this one, btw)
Bubbaking (Samus) vs GrapeApe (Sheik)
Bubbaking (Samus) vs Phish-it (DK) (only the first match, 'cause I chicken out to Sheik and get bopped even though I brought Phish-it to last stock decent %'s with Samus; sorry for the pretty bad quality of this one, btw
)
Violence
Smash Lord
Dude, you aren't respecting your opponents in their respective matchups.
You can't just hang around in their space like that, especially not with Sheik and DK.
For DK, you need to outspace his bair, you can't challenge it. Same with Sheik's triangle.
You were pretty stationary vs the Sheik, and even though the Sheik didn't have a good idea of how to play around your crouch cancel, he got a lot of free hits because you were just kinda standing there asking for it.
You can't just stand around throwing out options, if you keep doing it, you'll get punished by faster characters with more dynamic movement. (Caveat: your spacing is like Duck's)
You need to weave in and out of their space, and I definitely didn't see enough of that. It was just a lot of throw stuff out, hope for the best.
You can't just hang around in their space like that, especially not with Sheik and DK.
For DK, you need to outspace his bair, you can't challenge it. Same with Sheik's triangle.
You were pretty stationary vs the Sheik, and even though the Sheik didn't have a good idea of how to play around your crouch cancel, he got a lot of free hits because you were just kinda standing there asking for it.
You can't just stand around throwing out options, if you keep doing it, you'll get punished by faster characters with more dynamic movement. (Caveat: your spacing is like Duck's)
You need to weave in and out of their space, and I definitely didn't see enough of that. It was just a lot of throw stuff out, hope for the best.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
What does caveat mean?
Edit: Oh, warning? Well, I hope that's what it means 'cause that's what the dictionary told me... Anyway, thanks a lot for the critique! I really appreciated it!
Yeah, I've noted that I'm too reactionary and not very mobile. I really saw this when I got hit by the ftilt > fair by Sheik due to just standing there. Alright, more movement and more weaving, I will work on this.
Edit: Oh, warning? Well, I hope that's what it means 'cause that's what the dictionary told me...
Anyway, thanks a lot for the critique! I really appreciated it! Yeah, I've noted that I'm too reactionary and not very mobile. I really saw this when I got hit by the ftilt > fair by Sheik due to just standing there. Alright, more movement and more weaving, I will work on this.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Bubbaking you posted the same thing in 3 different threads on the Samus boards 
I'm pretty sure it's the same group of people frequenting the different threads lol.
Well anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed your matches against that Shiek. I felt you definitely could have played better with more mobility and weaving in and out of Shieks danger zone. It's also a good thing when the Shiek player isn't doing their angled needle edgeguard which can be quite annoying = / when playing against Sheiks who are familiar with the MU. I can't say much because I'm still learning and improving Samus myself but I noticed a few instances where you were tilting too close to the opponent(within grab range) and Samus's tilts I feel are a bit slow. What I'm working on now is being able to realize when I'm too close to tilt to just jab a few times, wd back then tilt to minimize the risk. Or even jab then wd past the opponent and do an opposite angled tilt to really minimize the risk. Plup is really good at this kind of pressure and I've seen Darrell apply it also. I can't do it that well, but I will soon! Just need some hours to waste and some Glitch Mob playing.
As for the set against Phish-it, it was a bit too laggy for me to tell what was going on at times. But I think more missiles could have helped. DK is a huge character and has a hard time being mobile, I think a solid missile spam could really shut down DK's movement and put the pace of the game in your control rather than you chasing after him.
I'm pretty sure it's the same group of people frequenting the different threads lol.
Well anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed your matches against that Shiek. I felt you definitely could have played better with more mobility and weaving in and out of Shieks danger zone. It's also a good thing when the Shiek player isn't doing their angled needle edgeguard which can be quite annoying = / when playing against Sheiks who are familiar with the MU. I can't say much because I'm still learning and improving Samus myself but I noticed a few instances where you were tilting too close to the opponent(within grab range) and Samus's tilts I feel are a bit slow. What I'm working on now is being able to realize when I'm too close to tilt to just jab a few times, wd back then tilt to minimize the risk. Or even jab then wd past the opponent and do an opposite angled tilt to really minimize the risk. Plup is really good at this kind of pressure and I've seen Darrell apply it also. I can't do it that well, but I will soon! Just need some hours to waste and some Glitch Mob playing.
As for the set against Phish-it, it was a bit too laggy for me to tell what was going on at times. But I think more missiles could have helped. DK is a huge character and has a hard time being mobile, I think a solid missile spam could really shut down DK's movement and put the pace of the game in your control rather than you chasing after him.
abcool
Smash Ace
Bubbaking was playing really nice vs that sheik to me. In this game IMO, you don't have to play top mindgame when your opponent isn't on that level. It's like Mango says: if they are good then you think and do all the high level stuff, if they aren't good then just **** them. I think what he means is you don't have to play spacing, mindgames and tech vs someone that doesn't understand those things it's just unecessary.
The Sheik was just trying to hit and Bubbaking was just CC'ing him. He reacted to grabs perfectly with the downdodges and most of all he stayed aware of simple sheik stuff. This sheik wasn't playing a triangle game, so if Bubba spent the entire match looking out for that he would have put himself at a disadvantge, so i am happy he went with the "I'll play it simple route" What he wasn't doing was punishing Sheik when the guy recovered up pass the ledge, Bubba kept throwing out downsmashes and missing simple stuff. He also stayed grounded most of the time and made a move when he had to which is what i liked the most that match.
TL;DR: Don't overwhelm yourself with all the what if's. If sheik isn't wavedashing out of you tilts abuse tilts more. If Sheik isn't needling your recovery then recover how you feel. Play the match simple and only get technical if you need too.
The Sheik was just trying to hit and Bubbaking was just CC'ing him. He reacted to grabs perfectly with the downdodges and most of all he stayed aware of simple sheik stuff. This sheik wasn't playing a triangle game, so if Bubba spent the entire match looking out for that he would have put himself at a disadvantge, so i am happy he went with the "I'll play it simple route" What he wasn't doing was punishing Sheik when the guy recovered up pass the ledge, Bubba kept throwing out downsmashes and missing simple stuff. He also stayed grounded most of the time and made a move when he had to which is what i liked the most that match.
TL;DR: Don't overwhelm yourself with all the what if's. If sheik isn't wavedashing out of you tilts abuse tilts more. If Sheik isn't needling your recovery then recover how you feel. Play the match simple and only get technical if you need too.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Indeed I felt he was playing good too! I hope I didn't come across as to say it was bad. I was just adding that on some instances he was tilting Sheiks shield right in her face. I also liked that Mango reference abcool. It explains how I lose sometimes to such simple play by an opposing player. This one time a poster on smashboards talked about how he as Marth one time was getting ***** at a friends house repeatedly and then decided to goof off and ONLY use fsmash. He revolved all of his spacing, movement, and reading of his opponent around just fsmash and started ****** everyone.
abcool
Smash Ace
/.Exactly, here in the Bahamas people got some awkward *** styles. I mean they won't change that style for crap and it throws me off to go from a technical player to one that either CC's all day and react or another basing his whole game around his shield. One thing i learned is when you are looking for something that is not there you are often times playing too much into what if's and not into what is actually happening.
Robinhood i wasn't meaning you. I was kinda just telling Violence that his advice is excellent, but if we go into matches looking for what he is pointing out and the player ain't doing any of that we miss a lot of opportunities from players that may just be playing to get a grab and followup. Why do you think some people be like "I lost to someone i shouldn't have lost to" Sometimes you just have to stop thinking so far into the game of what that character should/could be doing to us and just apply things for that situation. Once you win is all that matters. I mean no disrespect to top players, but sometimes keeping it simple does help a lot.
Robinhood i wasn't meaning you. I was kinda just telling Violence that his advice is excellent, but if we go into matches looking for what he is pointing out and the player ain't doing any of that we miss a lot of opportunities from players that may just be playing to get a grab and followup. Why do you think some people be like "I lost to someone i shouldn't have lost to" Sometimes you just have to stop thinking so far into the game of what that character should/could be doing to us and just apply things for that situation. Once you win is all that matters. I mean no disrespect to top players, but sometimes keeping it simple does help a lot.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Thank you so much for the input, guys!
Surprisingly, abcool hit the nail on the head when he said, "The Sheik was just trying to hit and Bubbaking was just CC'ing him." I noticed that the Sheik didn't really like to grab me much (something that kinda changed later on in the set) and he kept going for things like DA and tilts, so I attempted to 'go the simple route' and destroy him with CC's. Luckily it worked because Sheik gets messed up by CC's, but I almost got blown up.
@iRobbinHood: I did say, "Posting everywhere on the Samus boards so I can get critique from as many people as possible." Yeah, I noticed that I tilted a couple times too close to him. I even tilted the wrong way at one point. I really should have used crouch cancelled jabs more, and now I know to be more mobile. I'll also make a note to use missiles more against DK. I guess I should try to treat him like a more mobile Ganon.
@abcool: You're absolutely right; my edgeguarding was HORRIBLE! I've got to work more on my BnB's and other "simple stuff", as you said, especially my follow-ups from my throws. Man, that was probably the worst part of my play. I'd land good grabs but then I'd receive no reward for them.
Edit: @Robbin - I bet you that ESAM only critiqued my vids in the Video Critique thread 'cause I posted them there. I think I've only seen him there recently.
Surprisingly, abcool hit the nail on the head when he said, "The Sheik was just trying to hit and Bubbaking was just CC'ing him." I noticed that the Sheik didn't really like to grab me much (something that kinda changed later on in the set) and he kept going for things like DA and tilts, so I attempted to 'go the simple route' and destroy him with CC's. Luckily it worked because Sheik gets messed up by CC's, but I almost got blown up.
@iRobbinHood: I did say, "Posting everywhere on the Samus boards so I can get critique from as many people as possible."
Yeah, I noticed that I tilted a couple times too close to him. I even tilted the wrong way at one point. I really should have used crouch cancelled jabs more, and now I know to be more mobile. I'll also make a note to use missiles more against DK. I guess I should try to treat him like a more mobile Ganon.@abcool: You're absolutely right; my edgeguarding was HORRIBLE!
I've got to work more on my BnB's and other "simple stuff", as you said, especially my follow-ups from my throws. Man, that was probably the worst part of my play. I'd land good grabs but then I'd receive no reward for them. Edit: @Robbin - I bet you that ESAM only critiqued my vids in the Video Critique thread 'cause I posted them there.
I think I've only seen him there recently.
Violence
Smash Lord
@abcool: It worked fine for the first match, but he started smartening up, and bubbaking needed to adapt. Relied on cc a bit too much in the later games.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
That I'll admit. Grape Ape started wisening up and grabbing me more and stuff like that later on in the set. I took your advice to heart, Violence. I will work on being more mobile and on weaving a bit more often. I definitely need to work on outspacing DK, along with using more missiles.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
So I'm sittin here practicing some tech. How is the FD missile spam done? Full hop smash missile then missile b4 landing? Is it hard? Can't get it. Hopefully someone on the boards now lol
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, there's that for double missile spam. Then there's the SHFFMC, which is ridiculously hard. I just do regular SHMCs or double missiles.