EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[iRobinhoood]

I'm not on a skill level yet for SHFFMC yet but yes I'm talking about double missile spam. Having trouble with it. Also using Knuts double jump technique he showed me at battlegrounds which helped my platform missile canceling on YS and BF



Also how do you guys jab so fast for shield pressure?

 

[bubbaking]

Jab > down > jab > down > jab Work on the timing. It's an awesome pressure tool for Samus, and I'm upset I didn't even use it at SBU.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I do that but sometimes she just does the second hot which is laggy and punishable as hell. I guess I just got to get better at the timing.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, it may help to wait until you actually see her crouch. Then aim to make the timing tighter so that you see her crouch less and less. Eventually, you'll have mach speed jabs before you know it.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Inspiration Level: Glitch Mob

 

[Knut]

that way of doing jabs is so much harder. just jab and instead of pressing the control stick down, press (and hold it) in the down away notch. once you have the control stick in that angle, you no longer have to keep pressing down in between jabs, you just need to learn the rhythm to pressing A.

you can SH > Homing missile onto BF and FoD platforms (when they are the highest point). if you are familiar with Fox's SHDL, its pretty much the same idea. basically SH and slide your finger from Y to B so the homing missile comes out as quickly as possible, and wah lah. its a quicker than the double jump technique. its not extremely important, but i figured i'd let you know. this doesn't work with smash missiles though, sadly. and it doesn't work on DL platforms. they're just too high. =(

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'll inquire and more thoroughly sift through that post ^ when I get back from tonight's melee friendlies. Time to put the practice and mindset to the test.

 

[abcool]

I'll inquire and more thoroughly sift through that post ^ when I get back from tonight's melee friendlies. Time to put the practice and mindset to the test.

Here is an easy way to double missile cancel, Robin. Shield, flick up on the C-stick and forward B immediately and then wait till the animation ends and then Smash missile again. This method makes it much easier to slide your finger to B, while leaving your Joystick free to smash forward quickly. The trick is to be rising when you shoot the first missile and then shoot the second on the way back down.

 

[bubbaking]

I actually use up on the control stick to jump most of the time (when I'm not shorthopping) so it's pretty easy for me to double missile.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I think I'm going to try all of these and see which feels most natural/comfortable to execute. I can definitely say my Samus made great leaps today. I feel I did very well in my friendlies tonight with the exception of a Samus ditto. My movement was much smoother and if I had to change something it would probably be toning it down and going less agro again(although I played much less agro than before). I also need to stay grounded a bit more and spend less time in the air unless I'm sure it will hit/atleast trade.

BUT

The single most important thing I did tonight, and probably was the biggest leap in my gameplay so far was also probably the simplest thing ever. I was able to move around the stage with my movement, get a sense of how the opponent reacted to my movement, and eventually find a way in and react accordingly.

 

[Knut]

when things start clickin in this game for you, it is one of the most satisfying feelings imo.
any way congrats on your progress bro.
and yea, test out the stuff, and see which way you prefer to do it all. there's no right or wrong way for any of it, just whatever feels most comfortable.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Situation: Not sure if map matters, but you're on Yoshi's Story. You're below the left platform, not directly below but just below the side closest to the middle of the stage. Your in shield and a Sheik is mid-stage doing her continuous short hop fair pressure. What do you do?

Oh and your percent is any percent above 75%

 

[bubbaking]

If she keeps doing it, you could WD OoS and try to tilt her the next time she jumps at you. Since you're on Yoshi's, you could also probably upB her, but that one seems riskier to me. The last thing that comes to mind is spot dodge, but Sheik's fair has no lag. I would think she'd be able to punish that.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I was thinking WdooS would probably be the best option followed by a tilt like you said. I don't like to use upB once I reach higher percents because I feel it leaves me too vulnerable at times. Doesn't mean I don't use it though at those percents, probably just less.

Me and my friends were debating Samus' roll in teams recently. I had a teammate ask me to save him who was quite far off the stage. I was like Samus doesn't really save well. They said use your bombs. I was like, but the're MY bombs

I could only see Samus saving a teammate who just barely won't make it back to the stage to which I can kind of run off and UpB but that would likely put me in a bad situation. Would it be worth the risk?

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, I've actually saved my Jiggs teammate before when he ran out of jumps on DL64. I just told him to airdodge upwards and I dropped down and upB'd him back up to the stage. Both of us survived the ordeal just fine. Bombs are okay, but I believe Samus' teammate saving ability really shows in her upB. Come to think of it, I was just watching Melee Doubles at a NYU tournament today and I saw DJ Nintendo do the same exact thing. Lolz, talk about deja vu.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So pretty much UpB then I guess. Lookin for a job =X my smash funds are diminishing lol

EDIT: Air Double Missile is proving difficult.

Double EDIT: I think I understand the mistake. I was spamming smash missile input but a video I watched said I should only smash missile until after the lag from the rising missile ends.

 

[zDuck]

Situation: Not sure if map matters, but you're on Yoshi's Story. You're below the left platform, not directly below but just below the side closest to the middle of the stage. Your in shield and a Sheik is mid-stage doing her continuous short hop fair pressure. What do you do?

Oh and your percent is any percent above 75%

light shield so when she hits your shield you move farther away, if she's spacing correctly then she'll be too far away to do anything and you can drop your shield into doing whatever

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, I haven't seen Duck post in soooo long! How ya been?

 

[iRobinhoood]

light shield so when she hits your shield you move farther away, if she's spacing correctly then she'll be too far away to do anything and you can drop your shield into doing whatever

Can you DI your shield away to push you even further?

 

[Knut]

i've been toying around with grabbing ledge..and then using my grapple to hit them..from there i recover accordingly to what the opposing team and my teammate is doing. its worked out really well when i have used it, but its pretty situational. bombs and UpB are really nice as well though. and to be honest, i think samus is awesome at saving teammates.

and if sheik is literally spamming Fair on your shield..you can WD back OoS and shoot a standing missile, or go charging in with dash attack/aerials, or take a step forward and utilt/ftilt

if shes doing SHFFL'd fairs WD OoS right past her when she jumps, and forward smash her from behind.

if she's doing FullJump Fairs, a nice one is WD OoS under and past her, and then run just a little bit further and then WD in place and turn around(do this so you end up right outside of her Bair range). this is a really good way to get an upper hand in stage positioning. watch out for turn around needles though.

or Nair/fair OoS and DI toward her. although i'm not the biggest fan of this one.

i personally like WD OoS in place and pivot fsmash/ftilt/dsmash.

from the exact spot that your saying on the stage, i don't like the use of Up B. the only place to go is to the top platform (where she can usually just fall on you with nair or something) or just back towards the edge (which is where your attempting to get away from i presume). and its pretty tough to edge cancel the up b on the bottom platform from the spot on the stage. so it would probably be my last resort.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So far my attempts to saving a teammate with my bombs has meant death for me lol but I save my teammate! The grapple tricks sounds really neat though. WD to the edge, let go, air dodge back as their falling between you and the stage and pull the trigger I guess?

 

[Knut]

So far my attempts to saving a teammate with my bombs has meant death for me lol but I save my teammate! The grapple tricks sounds really neat though. WD to the edge, let go, air dodge back as their falling between you and the stage and pull the trigger I guess?

chyeaaaaaaaa

 

[zDuck]

Wow, I haven't seen Duck post in soooo long! How ya been?

been good, haven't been able to play smash in ages though, i'm actually procrastinating writing a report >.>

save your teammates by down smashing them back onto the stage

 

[iRobinhoood]

Knut I just have to say, I love watching your Samus. I need moar Knut VOD.

 

[Knut]

those videos are getting so outdated already though lol. i've learned so much in the past few months. i'll definitely try and get some matches recorded at sudden death if there's a set up for it.

i'm definitely going to get a Dazzle as a christmas present to myself. lol

 

[iRobinhoood]

I can help you setup a simple stream. Haven't found a way around "trial" though so not the best sound quality until then. Just haven't dug deep enough in the tech forums. As per recording, I think it's a lot simpler, and good sound. But we don't have a laptop with much HDD so we stream instead.

 

[Knut]

when i get my dazzle and stuff..you'll have to give me the run down on it. and are you going to sudden death this weekend?

 

[iRobinhoood]

No problem and sadly not. Remaining funds are for Christmas shopping and possibly Apex until I get a job at the airport lol

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

those videos are getting so outdated already though lol. i've learned so much in the past few months. i'll definitely try and get some matches recorded at sudden death if there's a set up for it.

i'm definitely going to get a Dazzle as a christmas present to myself. lol

O **** a dazzle, do it

 

[Tarv]

I'm asking this more for a friend than myself but in the current meta what are Samus' worst match-ups?

 

[bubbaking]

Sheik, Marth, and Falcon probably, maybe Jiggs. The spacees are arguably on that list, too.

Edit: At one time, Ganon and both Links were also on this list, but I definitely don't think Ganon's even nearly as bad as people used to think, and I have no idea what exactly the meta involving the Links is. I've solidly beaten every Link and YL I've ever come across, but to be fair, good players don't usually main those chars, lolz!

 

[Tarv]

Alright cool, thanks bubbaking.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'd say Sheik and Marth are pretty high up there. Plup said somewhere that the matchup is terrible for Ganon but I've heard the opposite at times where Samus is just a giant sandbag for Ganon. Can we get a solid opinion here?

 

[bubbaking]

I think the stagelist has a pretty big influence on who has the upper hand on that MU. Samus gives him a really hard time with missiles and she also gimps him really hard, but once Ganon gets in, crap gets real. There isn't much point in trying to CC against Ganon 'cause everything hits so hard, and a lot of his attacks seem like they were tailored to catch spot-dodges. Ganon also gets auto-kill combos off of grabs and nearly all of his moves kill in some way or another, especially his aerials. So I guess it's Samus' zoning/camping & gimp game vs Ganon's CQC (power and.....power)

I always think that anyone who has a good grab game (spacees, Sheik, Marth, and arguably Falcon) gives Samus a pretty hard time because of her large reliance on CC and OoS tactics against fast chars.

 

[iRobinhoood]

it's Samus' zoning/camping & gimp game vs Ganon's CQC (power and.....power)

I like this. Good stuff.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Bubba no one thinks the spacies are that bad for samus, in fact her mu vs them (or at least fox) is one of her best high/top tier mu's. People say she goes even or just slightly loses to fox which is much better then most characters.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, I JUST came out of a discussion less than a minute ago with another Samus player who personally thinks Fox is harder than both Marth and Falcon. Also, you're mistaking my post for what I personally believe. When I say "arguably", I mean arguably. I personally think Samus:spacee is, like, 45:55 in the spacee's favor.

Edit: Also, Samus' best High Tier matchup is definitely the ICs. It's a MU that she actually wins.

Edit 2: And where are you citing your data from anyway? I don't recall ever seeing anyone say that Samus:spacee is even. That kind of reasoning hasn't been around since 2010.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Well recently on the fox boards they were talking about this mu and thats what they were saying, it is also what billy has said to me before. I also said one of her best high/top tier mu's not her very best

 

[iRobinhoood]

Spacie 58 - 42 Samus

Missed grab(not that I'd probably be risking a grab that high) above ~75% can mean like auto kill. Still relatively new to this game, so my opinion bears no meaning lol.

 

[bubbaking]

I've found that Foxes tend to john a lot about chars who can CC (see: Paulo, Animal, Codi, etc) their BS if they don't space correctly or get their shines out. I definitely support a close to even MU. G$'s a good deal better than me and I was consistently taking his Fox to last stock the last time we played, although his Falco was trashing me.

Edit: A nice quote that actually describes this MU even though it's from a Brawl player :

People from the outside looking in watch a matchup and think that it looks even not noticing that the other character is always working far harder than the mk and is usually playing with a large discrepancy in amount of matchup knowledge.

Obviously, replace MK with Fox.