EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Violence]

Cori, even if you can consistently space yourself for one phantom hit, which is pretty much impossible, you can't stay in the same place for the next phantom hit, as you can SDI phantom hits.

It's the same reason why you can't theoretically phantom dsmash a puff with Peach to build damage.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So far things I've been having trouble with:

- Dropping through platforms/missile spamming in general
- Returning from above the stage vs Marth(have no idea what to do, get u-air'd and uptilted until death)
- Recovery from the edge options(find myself literally pausing and thinking, what do I do now?)
- How do you do the extender(not as important but just curious and cool)
- Is there an updated Samus guide?
- Plup is by far the best Samus I've seen but he has like 5 videos on Youtube... (looking for matches where I can learn some things/study from)
- How to counter a cc'ing Falco
- What to do when above stage and a Ganon threatening a uair
- Bombs, tricks and tips? Ways to use them?
- Double bomb recovery the most efficient way(I'm spamming Down B while I do this so at the same time aren't I just fast falling to my death?)
- Coping with the urge to dair spike everything that goes off stage.

I need some lean Samus melee up in this *****. So hyped, ordered a brand new controller last night with express shipping.

GET HYPE

 

[McNinja]

Well if falco is cc'ing, just throw missles at him. Ill comment on your other issues at a later time when I can focus lol.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'll be adding more things to come.

- Dropping through platforms faster and more efficiently.

 

[Corigames]

throw missles at him

FYI: The mental image from that was amazing.

 

[McNinja]

Okay. When recovering against Marth, just give up. Its really that bad if the Marth knows what they are doing and if they are patient. Just avoid going off stage under almost any circumstance. The only thing that works sometimes is a sweetspot rising grapple if you mix it up.

Bombs are probably one of my favorite tools. My favorite way to use bombs is as shield pressure. They can also be used to get out of combos. Also Setting one bomb in front of you can be used as a "wall" that opponents have to move around. Just have fun with them and experiment.

 

[iRobinhoood]

So far things I've been having trouble with:

- Dropping through platforms/missile spamming in general
- Returning from above the stage vs Marth(have no idea what to do, get u-air'd and uptilted until death)
- Recovery from the edge options(find myself literally pausing and thinking, what do I do now?)
- How do you do the extender(not as important but just curious and cool)
- Is there an updated Samus guide?
- Plup is by far the best Samus I've seen but he has like 5 videos on Youtube... (looking for matches where I can learn some things/study from)
- How to counter a cc'ing Falco
- What to do when above stage and a Ganon threatening a uair
- Bombs, tricks and tips? Ways to use them?
- Double bomb recovery the most efficient way(I'm spamming Down B while I do this so at the same time aren't I just fast falling to my death?)
- Coping with the urge to dair spike everything that goes off stage.
- Dropping through platforms faster and more efficiently..

Just gonna keep quoting this to keep it current. Now as a means of shield pressure, I'm sure everyone has seen the clip of a Samus(I think it was Darrell) bombing a Peach shield and going into a dair and breaking the shield. Is this guaranteed or was her shield already small?

So what I'm getting from the Marth matchup is try to stay on the ground and return to the ground safely.

I need to wavedash back more into attacks but is that considered campy? I also noticed spot dodges play a big role in Samus' gameplay(atleast for Plup).




EDIT: What's everyone's least favorite Samus matchup? What's our most favored?

 

[GunPunch]

FYI: The mental image from that was amazing.

lol, i didnt think anything of "throwing missiles" when i read it.

read the matchup thread for alot of tech stuff and marth help (i recently asked almost the same marth question). coming down from above against ganon/marth are almost the same IMO. i would mix up using double jump, bomb, and FF nair (maybe bomb tricks too).

bomb recovery. idk, bomb twice and move to the side immediately after the second bomb hits. i know the timing so i dont spam. u shouldnt FF at all, the bomb should come out immediately (although u do fall some). u can juke in and out during it too, so u avoid attacks. with a some practice u'll master it. (also, almost always airdodge before u grapple a wall. idk if ur already doing this, just putting it out there).

biggest thing i think is watch videos. make the "megaplex of samus videos" thread ur friend. watch combo vids for tricks and for seeing what tech isnt usually combo material. i like watching hugs, his play is super smart. IHSB is fun to watch too. really, watching videos will show u all the recovery options, all the viable tech, and ...everything. this will help alot. samus has alot of options and tricks to use, but only use them if u think "it will work" (violence quote)

EDIT: wavedash back is great. get them to miss. make them pay.

marth matchup sucks: my friend was playing marth against me once and after losing 3 stocks i didnt immediately drop from the respawn. he says, "maybe we should take a break"

 

[iRobinhoood]

Going to hopefully have a productive Samus soon enough.

Q: How did Plup seem to triple bomb at 0:21?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeBZfLQjkQ

Q: At 4:49 how did Hugs do like a triple jab onto Falco's shield? I normally get shield grabbed after Samus goes in for the arm cannon jab -___-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BISh1U-Fw0&feature=player_detailpage#t=288s


Have any of you guys ordered a controller from play asia? How was it? I just ordered one and waiting for it to ship.

 

[Pluplue]

triple bomb just needs timing but I've leaned away from doing that lol.
those videos of mine are pretty old.

hugs crouches in-between jabs and that basically resets it so you don't use your second jab when you press a again.

missile spam just takes practice and precision.

best way I've found to counter a ccing falco (or any falco) is to try to always be outside of his lazer > dair range but inside your wavedash ftilt range.
whenever he approaches you should be able to wavedash back and dsmash or shield and up b.
if he gets pushed to the side of the map then just follow what he does and try to punish him (jump when he jumps, wavedash back when he attacks, wavedash up to the ledge when he grabs it)
It's really intuitive but you can get the hang of it if you play more.

Extender is obviously the most useful trick for samus.
to activate it you use a grab either in the air or on the ground and you press up/down as fast as you can on the d-pad while pressing z.
then you can hold L while you grab and it will hoam toward the nearest guy.

GANON IS A JOKE CHARACTER but in that situation just spam bombs if you're really high up and get to the ledge.
if you're just standing on a ledge above him then figure out how you got there and stop doing that.

substitute dair with up-tilt when theyre off the stage.

"Dropping through platforms faster and more efficiently.."
?? what do you mean?

"Plup is by far the best Samus I've seen but he has like 5 videos on Youtube... (looking for matches where I can learn some things/study from)"

AWWW YEAH ty
I don't have many recent videos :[
dont look at my apex videos theyre terrible.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Zorothemetalone sum videos there


Eat my wall of text mwa ha ha ha



also someone should tell me how to put multiple quotes inside of my posts. thatd be sick


I realize now I should have just quoted your question before every answer but im just tooooo tireddd nowwwwwzzzz

 

[MonkUnit]

There should be a button with 'multi' written on it or just quotation marks on it. Click that on any post you wish to multi-quote. Click the regular quote button to quote everything that has been selected for multi-quoting.

 

[GunPunch]

check the frame data thread, there's a perfect angle for the couch cancelled jabs. it's pretty sweet. also, on a shield, try things like a jab or two then grab or wavedash or some other move.

plup, if ur apex vids are "terrible" then i cant imagine how good u are now/ when ur playing ur best, lol. btw, are you guys all going to FC? i'd love to see some pro samus in action, and have some friendlies where i get a couple percent on u guys.

 

[iRobinhoood]

triple bomb just needs timing but I've leaned away from doing that lol.
those videos of mine are pretty old.

hugs crouches in-between jabs and that basically resets it so you don't use your second jab when you press a again.

missile spam just takes practice and precision.

best way I've found to counter a ccing falco (or any falco) is to try to always be outside of his lazer > dair range but inside your wavedash ftilt range.
whenever he approaches you should be able to wavedash back and dsmash or shield and up b.
if he gets pushed to the side of the map then just follow what he does and try to punish him (jump when he jumps, wavedash back when he attacks, wavedash up to the ledge when he grabs it)
It's really intuitive but you can get the hang of it if you play more.

Extender is obviously the most useful trick for samus.
to activate it you use a grab either in the air or on the ground and you press up/down as fast as you can on the d-pad while pressing z.
then you can hold L while you grab and it will hoam toward the nearest guy.

GANON IS A JOKE CHARACTER but in that situation just spam bombs if you're really high up and get to the ledge.
if you're just standing on a ledge above him then figure out how you got there and stop doing that.

substitute dair with up-tilt when theyre off the stage.

"Dropping through platforms faster and more efficiently.."
?? what do you mean?

"Plup is by far the best Samus I've seen but he has like 5 videos on Youtube... (looking for matches where I can learn some things/study from)"

AWWW YEAH ty
I don't have many recent videos :[
dont look at my apex videos theyre terrible.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Zorothemetalone sum videos there


Eat my wall of text mwa ha ha ha



also someone should tell me how to put multiple quotes inside of my posts. thatd be sick


I realize now I should have just quoted your question before every answer but im just tooooo tireddd nowwwwwzzzz

Now this is what I'm talking about here. I ate that wall of text like AN ANIMAL.

hugs crouches in-between jabs and that basically resets it so you don't use your second jab when you press a again.

I'll try to get this down and I'll post my results later tonight. Hanging out with the gf today so can't put nothing into play at the moment.

Extender is obviously the most useful trick for samus.
to activate it you use a grab either in the air or on the ground and you press up/down as fast as you can on the d-pad while pressing z.
then you can hold L while you grab and it will hoam toward the nearest guy.

Most useful trick? I didn't think it was because of how easily punishable her grab is when you miss. I could be wrong though. Do I have to press A when the tip of the beam is over the enemy in order to get the grab or is it an automatic grab?

GANON IS A JOKE CHARACTER but in that situation just spam bombs if you're really high up and get to the ledge.
if you're just standing on a ledge above him then figure out how you got there and stop doing that.

What I'm getting is the ledge is my friend when recovering from above even though I should never be above in the first place. My only excuse is getting hit by an attack which forced me up.

substitute dair with up-tilt when theyre off the stage.

THE URGE TO DAIR, ugh so great. But yea my Falcon main reminds me of how powerful up-tilt can be.

"Dropping through platforms faster and more efficiently.."
?? what do you mean?

When I was practicing missile spamming yesterday on lets say Pokemon Stadium, I would jump above a platform, missile just before landing to get the auto-cancel and when I would make a down input on the controller Samus would crouch like 90% of the time instead of drop. It was only when I delayed the down input she would drop through but it looked way too slow compared to you're videos.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Zorothemetalone sum videos there

My study food for tonight and tomorrow.

Some new questions:

What moves should I be looking to crouch cancel? I know dsmash is a big one and maybe fsmash but what else should be cc'd and when?(Examples would be great)

One of my biggest problems is for example, an approaching Marth most likely going to fair, I'll crouch cancel and try to get the dsmash out in time but then I get dtilted(stabbed) by Marth and it just pushes me away. Was I too slow?

EAT MY WALL PLUP​

 

[Pluplue]

no extender is kind of lame. It makes your running grab incredibly hard to hit which in my book is not worth it.
I was TRYING to be sarcastic.

If you're above ganon it's generally not good to meet him when you're on your way down. Try to juke him and run off the side of a platform and fast fall.

crouching on platforms probably means you held down before your missile animation was over. the instant you land is when you want to press down.

crouch canceling moves like fox's nair is always good.
the little marth scenario you have seems like it would be really close and definitely percent dependent. you could definitely cc dsmash at lower percents.

 

[GunPunch]

CC alot of stuff. CC weaker moves so u will be there when they land to counterattack. CC into dsmash or dtilt. those are the best i think. u can try to CC alot of stuff, u'll never really get punished for it. if it's a weak move, u can counterattack. if its a strong move, u at least reduced the knockback. only thing (idk if u know this), NEVER CC a peach. dsmash will destroy u. try not to CC any multi-hit moves like doc dsmash or things like that.

against marth, try wavedash back and ftilt maybe. if they are just throwing out fairs without thinking, wavedash forward and ftilt. hmmm, if their spacing is bad, up-b oos. (i'm no pro, but thats what i think).

and yeah, extender is pretty bad. i think plup is as good at sarcasm as he is at samus.

 

[Pluplue]

I'm a sarcasm pro.

 

[Corigames]

The only thing that makes the extender bad is if you suck with it... or want to air grab people.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'm still fairly new at Samus so the sarcasm flies right by me lol I take everything so serious right now. Also, for the extender, do I just mash up down up down up down as fast and as long as possible while holding Z?

 

[McNinja]

Yeah Marth matchup is easily one of my hardest match ups. I made a thread about it awhile back, but its gone now. Its all about spacing. Stay JUST out of his range. Too far away, and you will miss the punish. To close and you die.

F-tilt is your best friend in this matchup. It somewhat challenges Marths absurd range.

Oh, and WD ooS and down smash works wonders against an Fsmash happy Marth.

Make sure you abuse your edgeguarding options as well. Walk off Nair gets em every time.

Somebody better than me please confirm/deny these subjects.

Oh and about the extender, don't mash. Just press up-down-up-A right after you press the grab button. It can be in the air or on the ground but the animation MUST COMEPLETE to activate.

 

[Pluplue]

^ I don't like trying to outspace marth. You have to be WAY better then him for that to work.
I mean he has a sword...

I'd rather make the game more chaotic and always attack marth.
Full hop ff missile > anything you want is a good approach if he's far away.

I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE WHAT I THINK YOU SHOULD BE THINKING IN THE MARTH MATCHUP

"I never want to be above him because he can juggle me indefinitely, I never want to be caught out of position so I stay as mobile as possible, I want to keep an eye open for when he attacks because I know he HAS to be the one to make the first move, I mean I have missiles... Whenever I land a hit I want to stay on his *** for as long as it's safely possible by keeping the pressure on with jabs and and grabs."

yeah that sounds good.
do that.
it'll be great.
cuz ur great.
great job.

 

[iRobinhoood]

What I'm getting is Samus' spot dodge is really useful but don't over do it. Look for mistakes your opponent makes and punish hard. The stage is your friend and Samus' aerial game isn't meant to challenge Marth whatsoever.

Oh and MISSILES MISSILES MISSILES MISSILES. Tomorrow morning(well today I guess), I'm going to be working on the missile spamming platform technique. I also might throw in some SWD to keep me interested.

Edit: Saw this on Reddit, potentially relative to our interests

 

[GunPunch]

first, the helmet in that pic is sweeeet.

"I never want to be above him because he can juggle me indefinitely, I never want to be caught out of position so I stay as mobile as possible, I want to keep an eye open for when he attacks because I know he HAS to be the one to make the first move, I mean I have missiles... Whenever I land a hit I want to stay on his *** for as long as it's safely possible by keeping the pressure on with jabs and and grabs."

yeah that sounds good.
do that.
it'll be great.
cuz ur great.
great job.

lol, awesome

yeah, i'm probly not better than McNinja (although i'm probly better than plup...) i agree with pretty much everything. when i think spacing against marth, it's really hard to be better at spacing than marth. just stay out of his range and missile, like plup said. get used to missile cancelling almost everytime u land and someone isnt in ur face.

walk off nair is the best. it actually does get them every time...almost.

 

[Violence]

I'd like to think I'm pretty experienced with the Marth matchup.

You can outspace non-Marth mains very easily. You just move around a lot and they commit and you punish and you destroy them.

When the Marth is power-ranked and it's their main, you can't try to beat them with crap like this.

Of course, you have to stay grounded, and you have to stay mobile. Try to put a projectile between you and him at all times. Mixing up missiles and small charge shot messes up his fair timing to hit them because missiles accelerate and charge shots have constant velocity.

When he shields, missile -> grab is a nice option. If he starts reacting to the missile hitting his shield, missile -> spaced utilt is very good as well. The key really to this matchup is to catch Marth out of position, force him to shield, and convert that into a hit, and convert that hit into an edgeguard situation, and then convert that into a stock. He has the advantage, but you have a lot of room for error because it's difficult to kill you without tippers, and if you're on point with your DI (CROUCH CANCEL ON THE GROUND, DI UP AND AWAY IN THE AIR), it's hard for him to get highly damaging punishes on you. Stay out of the air as much as possible unless he's also in the air and you're under him. When above him, go to the ledge.

Darrell mentioned to me about this matchup: The ledge is home-base. Just go right back home, and start from scratch. Anything else gets you ****ed up.

Learn to edgeguard him. Walk off nair, bomb->utilt, just utilt, cc->dsmash, grab ledge->ledgehop rising nair are all viable edgeguards that are useful in different situations that you should think about.

 

[Corigames]

The only Marth I really get to play is Tai and he completely destroys me. I don't feel like I get to do anything the entire match, he just juggles me from one side of the stage to the other. If I spam, he cuts through it and kills me. If I run away, he's a step ahead of me and kills me. If I space, he out spaces me and kills me. If I do clutch X, he'll avoid it and kill me.

Also, getting counterpicked to Yoshi Story and having them switch to Marth suuuuuucks. This lost me 2 games at my last tourney.

 

[Violence]

After getting two stocked by Tai a few times at Apex, here are my impressions of your area's two top Marths, Cori:

Taj(my impressions of a set at DGDTJ, and around 45 mins to an hour of friendlies in a rotation at Genesis 2 Day 3 morning, also known as the Taj day): He will dash dance very fast just out of your range to bait you into acting, and then he will commonly use a forward b to disrupt your tempo and pick you up off the ground into an utilt or some other move. Try to stay on point with your crouch cancels and cc dsmash it, or smash DI up and away and try to double jump waveland to a platform away from him, followed by something to get the hell down to the ground asap. Ideally, dsmash him in that scenario to force him to change options. He's great at grabbing and will likely uthrow you. It's so hard to get around him at that point, try to get to the ledge, I know it's really hard. Taj is very good at covering options and punishing, but bad at killing. If he doesn't tipper you, you're fine.

On the ground, standing missile or retreating short hop missile are decent ways to find your way in. Utilt and ftilt to poke at his shield is also pretty good, just buffer cc if you think you're going to get hit. The only way you stand a chance is with feet planted firmly on the ground. Don't get thrown off by his mobility, you can move just as fast as he can. Try to follow his movement and poke wisely. Once you have a hit, don't let him go!

Tai(Played a few games at APEX): Fast movement and very good spacing. Insane combo game, and a hard punisher. Probably the second hardest Marth I've ever played at this matchup, the hardest being PewPewU. He just keeps throwing out moves! SO MANY MOVES. CC will not do it here. After his experience with OkamiBW, I believe that he comes in expecting CC's a lot, and will late fair->ftilt or fsmash to get around it. He puts on massive pressure and punishes very hard, I didn't get any better than a two stock off of him. My only advice would be to try and keep a projectile between you two at all costs, and to mix up spacing options so that he can't just wreck your CC all day with spaced late fair. Also DI UP AND AWAAAAY.



If I had to compare the two... I'm more scared of Taj when I'm on the ledge and he's on stage, because I legitimately feel like I have no options. However, when it's on stage, I think Tai punishes harder and combos better. He spaces more aggressively and throws his character advantage into your face via large sword hitboxes. It's hard to find holes in his spacing, but I think they exist. Watch for an overzealous commitment and hit him out of the sky with an uangled fsmash or an utilt, or a sh nair. Taj doesn't do such things and pokes more safely. Against him, I would try to bait one of his forward b pokes and go for a cc dsmash to start something.

 

[iRobinhoood]

What I noticed a lot in the Marth matchup is I'll be on the ledge and I'll try a ledge hop fair onto the stage but just get outspaced by a retreating fair which puts me off stage again. If I roll I sometimes get dsmashed by Marth. Sometimes just standing from the ledge actually works. I disliked using her normal jump from the edge though because it's slow and puts me in a bad position.

One thing I've come to notice about getting back to the edge is making up in my mind on the go what recovery technique I'm going to use before even grabbing the ledge. I think keeping up the pace makes it harder for the Marth to get his spacing down quickly enough.

Are there any other options for recovery from the edge?

 

[standardtoaster]

FYI: The mental image from that was amazing.

Was it anything like this?

 

[iRobinhoood]

lol

Edit:

I listen to Metroid Prime tracks to get me hyped to play Samus.

 

[Corigames]

Was it anything like this?

More like of Wekser's move from MVC3 where he throws a missile. Like, literally, throwing a missile. Similar to lava axe: "Catch!"

 

[iRobinhoood]

Rising grapple, do I just press A as soon as the beam hits the stage?

EDIT: After watching roughly an hour of multiple Samus vs. Marth gameplays I've noticed Marth's sometimes make it obvious when they're looking to fsmash. In 70% of the cases the player will make slight adjustments to their positioning in a slow sometimes twitchy walk(correcting for proper spacing).

 

[Corigames]

No. There are a few things you can do to 3rd jump:
1. Air dodge upward and cancel it with a Zair. The momentum will carry you upwards and also send out a shock for a split second.
2. Do the same thing right next to the stage. If done properly, you will slingshot up the side of the wall in your free-fall animation.
3. Have you ever grappled an edge and, when gravity pulled you down, the grappled clipped an edge leading to it dislodging? Well, on some stages (like FD), you can rising grapple far enough away from the edge that it will attach, but lift high enough that it clips an edge and sends you tumbling (tumble like when you get hit, not like when you've use your UpB). By doing this, you can rising grapple into a nair, fair, or into an UpB for supreme recovering or you can stay in tumble intentionally and tech on the stage. Doing this while not using your double jump means that you can sling up over the edge, hit someone with a Dair (or whatever), and then follow it up with a DJ aerial.

The only problem with the rising grapple is: if you **** it up, you will die. No, this does not work horizontally, though air dodging toward the stage before grappling is still a stupendous idea.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

can you show me an example of #3?

 

[GunPunch]

the first part of #3 only happens to me on battlefield. if u grapple the edge in a certain spot or grapple the part below the stage in some areas, it will clip as u fall...(then u die). the other part of #3 isnt that rare. check out 7:48 of this vid, the part about rising grapple: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4436716065093691994&hl=en
(but i'm guessing u were just asking about the first part)

also, iRobinhoood, i would almost always air dodge before grappling. (if u arent already)

 

[iRobinhoood]

That is one of the most informative videos I've seen so far. Thanks for the link.

 

[Corigames]

Air dodging + grappling:
It's great to get you that extra boost toward the stage. It also cancels all the gravity on you, which doesn't drag the grapple down, allowing for maximum distance on it. After air dodging, you have about until the first rotation of her tumble to hit grapple before you get locked out of it; so don't feel too rushed to use it and/or waste it if you're over the edge (you can FF and then hit it for example).

Sometimes, though, you shouldn't air dodge. It adds another step to your already slow recovery. If anyone has Samus experience against you, they'll know that you have to grapple after the air dodge, unless you just let yourself die. So, when they see you air dodge, it's a big tell that they should drop down to where you are grappling and knock you away. Once you get a feel for the grapple's length, be ready to mix in instant grapples with your air dodged ones.

Additionally, you should also practice wall jumping out of pulling up on the grapple. If someone is waiting on you to pull up, you can hit wall jump and use those invincibility frames to avoid being punished (just be careful and not let yourself die from jumping away from the stage). You should also practice sweet spotting the edges of the stage. They can be tricky, because some of them are lower than you think, and hitting the very top of the ledge doesn't always get you a sweetspot. That said, you can also zap people with the grapple if you hit them with it as you hit the ledge of the stage, so there's always that too. Then there's grapple canceling with bombs if you are flashy and give 0 ****s.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'm having trouble missile spamming on platforms. I tried breaking it down step by step and just practicing dropping through platforms but no matter what I can't drop through the platform immediately after landing. I have to wait for the landing animation to end before dropping through. If I do it any earlier she just crouches.

 

[McNinja]

I'm having trouble missile spamming on platforms. I tried breaking it down step by step and just practicing dropping through platforms but no matter what I can't drop through the platform immediately after landing. I have to wait for the landing animation to end before dropping through. If I do it any earlier she just crouches.

Idk if this helps or not, but on battlefield and dreamland, you have to double jump to do it. You can short hop and do it on Yoshi's, Pokemon S, and fountain.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Idk if this helps or not, but on battlefield and dreamland, you have to double jump to do it. You can short hop and do it on Yoshi's, Pokemon S, and fountain.

Crucial information that I needed but doesn't solve my problem dropping through platforms.

Played a few matches tonight after reading more about Samus and also videos of top Samus players.

Notes/Thoughts/Ideas from tonight's matches.

- Before I didn't know what to do against Marth in the air or above him. Same for Ganon as well. But I'm glad I fixed that as I now find myself carefully and effectively making my way back to level ground and avoid getting hit back up most of the time. However, when an opponent is near me while I'm grabbing the ledge I still have so much trouble returning to the stage. I panic and wind up just doing an attack from the edge that is shieldgrabbed and I get sent back off again. It must have happened at least 80% of all my recoveries tonight. To counteract this behavior I'm going to look back on some Samus videos and see how they deal with it. The other 20% of my recoveries were attacks from the edge such as fair, nair, and dair which would also be shieldgrabbed. I try using an aerial attack from the edge and hitting the L-cancel, but what comes next? Samus doesn't have a good jab game as the second hit is easily shield grabbed. L-cancel to ftilt? utilt???

- I found myself cc'ing at the right times this time around. I'm getting a feel for how much percent I have and how much knockback I'll get for certain attacks. I also use it as a means to survive powerful smash attacks which helped a bit too.

- If there's one thing I can credit myself with doing, I'm actually fairly decent at nailing the SWD in match on demand. It's only when I try to show someone it I can't lol which I guess is good and not the reverse.

- Haven't implemented shielding with L into my gameplay yet which I feel will yield better results. It will allow me to WD OOS and either escape shield pressure or punish laggy fsmashes.

- Building a feel for what leads into what which I think is basic when learning a character.

- Didn't try one dair off stage tonight Instead, used ftilt(low), fsmash(not at a level of skill where I can control on demand where I want the fsmash to hit), and utilt. Also found utilt useful on opponents threatening an approaching aerial even if they're almost directly above you.

- Going to go back and watch more videos on how Samus' pressure shields and space properly. I was getting grabbed too many times out of ftilt and jabs. I think Plup mentioned something about canceling the second jab animation by cc'ing in between the hits. Could someone clarify that? I tried it but Samus just dtilts when I try it.

- Going to dedicate some time tonight on reading Scar's lean melee.

- Almost hit a SWD to nair last kill on Pokemon Stadium, opponent just grabbed the edge in time however.

- One good thing I started doing is developing a flow for my opponents moves. If I thought they were going to jump, I'd jump with them and nair. If I foresaw a DD grab attempt, I'd spot dodge and push them back or punish.

- Which brings me to another progress note, used spotdodges somewhat effectively tonight. They worked on occasion but I feel they were more lucky than actually predicting a move and spot dodging.

- I could probably use a little more bombs in my gameplay just to throw off my movement a bit and change things up. I only really use them when retreating or recovering back to the stage from above or the sides. Oh and obviously when I SWD which is probably the main reason I want to use bombs more, to make my SWD's less obvious.

If you read this, you are awesome. Comments welcome, I hope to have some gameplay up soon. We were a little late to smash tonight and didn't set it up.

 

[GunPunch]

nice wall. ur determination is awesome! (forget falcon, samus will be ur new main! lol)

-Missile Cancelling / Spamming: on battlefield and dreamland, use the control stick and a button to get a quick double jump. i do up then Y, but u can do Y then up. then immediately fire a missile. the timing is variable: if u get it perfect, u can drop almost immediately after the missile is fired. if ur double jump is a little slow, u will have to wait a slight amount of time before dropping. for yoshi's and pokemon stadium, short hop and fire the missile as quickly as possible. the short hop is always the same height, so i think the time when u drop depends on how fast u fire the missile. but u should be able to drop almost immediately. watch samus's beautiful legs/feet to see when she finishes the move and then u can drop.

-Getting up from the ledge: to answer ur question, if they're standing right there i ledge hop a fair, l-cancel immediately into Up-B or dtilt. Up-B is probly the fastest, but if they're really patient they might also shield that. also, stall on the ledge sometimes (drop and double jump back to the ledge). u can also ledge hop on and wavedash back off to the ledge, if they're expecting an attack. if they are staying back and threating to grab if u do anything, ledge hop a missile. this will missile cancel and should give u time to do something. dont ledge hop too much, thats a problem i have. stay unpredictable. there are tons of ledge options.

-Spot dodges will be "lucky" sometimes. just dont overdo it (i know u know this, just reminding u. cause it can become a habit). sometimes i spotdodge too much and i find myself saying, "wow, just a shield wouldve worked there"

-CC jabs: once u jab, if u press A again u will do the terriblely slow second part, the arm swing attack...whatever thats called. so if u dont CC u have to wait a while to do another jab. however, if u jab and CC u can jab immediately (i think its immediately). so, do this: jab, hold down, as soon as u see the couch, stop holding down and jab again. there is a perfect angle to hold the control stick so the couch will automatically happen. to get this angle, i jab and swing the control stick down and to the first notch in the opposite direction u are jabbing. (not a perfect method, but kinda works).

- Didn't try one dair off stage tonight Instead, used ftilt(low), fsmash(not at a level of skill where I can control on demand where I want the fsmash to hit), and utilt. Also found utilt useful on opponents threatening an approaching aerial even if they're almost directly above you.

good job. also, u could try to bomb off the edge and then utilt. let me explain, if u run off an edge and bomb immediately, samus will stay high enough to get back on the stage. so, run off, bomb, hold back to the stage and utilt. this can can marth's sometimes.

- Almost hit a SWD to nair last kill on Pokemon Stadium, opponent just grabbed the edge in time however.

AWESOME. this reminds me of when i was learning samus. i got really good with SWD and my friend would predict it and punish me, lol. this is getting me pumped to polish my samus game!

 

[iRobinhoood]

Hoping to get some Samus gameplay tonight. It won't be anything pretty I assure you.

And yes we need some Lean Samus Melee up in this.