• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Evolution is true? (macro evolution)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
I'm back :bee:


Wow, you just managed to give the finger to the foundation of the American gouvernment. That's almost impressive, in a fucktarted kind of way.
This proves what?

First of all, it is explicitly stated that all men are created equal. This is not that all men are equal. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson themselves repeatedly showed that they did not believe all people were equal. Thomas Jefferson even had slaves.

People are created equal means that everyone, from birth, should have the same clean slate. We know now from modern genetics that this isn't even true.

Well isn't he a nice guy? Regardless, no matter how "prefect" God is he is still an asshole and seeing as His Word (see the Bible) states that he is good and loving it seems he is also a liar. Doesn't seem all that perfect to me, what about you? (If you need me to point out all of the retarted moments in the Bible I'de be happy to)
In Korea, it is incredibly rude to leave a class while the teacher is lecturing. In America, it happens all the time. The difference in culture is slight in this regard, but enough to make an impact if you view American college classes through Korean eyes.

You are viewing God through the eyes of a mortal.


This is similar to a goomba thinking you are a jerk because you let mario step on his head, or mario thinking you are an unforgiving and malicious deity because you turned the power off on world 5-2.

Death is not an "end" to God. Hell, it isnt' even an end from a physical standpoint. The matter amount is the same, "dead" is just an arbitrary term. God is beyond that, and is able to look at it that way. Believe it or not, God isn't here for us. It's the other way around.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
This proves what?

First of all, it is explicitly stated that all men are created equal. This is not that all men are equal. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson themselves repeatedly showed that they did not believe all people were equal. Thomas Jefferson even had slaves.
Both Franklin and Jefferson were for all intents and purposes atheists (arguably deists) and both highly critical of organized religion, Christianity especially. The notion that the founding fathers were Judeo-Christians is delusional at best.

This is similar to a goomba thinking you are a jerk because you let mario step on his head, or mario thinking you are an unforgiving and malicious deity because you turned the power off on world 5-2.

Death is not an "end" to God. Hell, it isnt' even an end from a physical standpoint. The matter amount is the same, "dead" is just an arbitrary term. God is beyond that, and is able to look at it that way. Believe it or not, God isn't here for us. It's the other way around.
So this automatically gives God a free pass to be a complete *******?

Honestly, you guys don't realize how ******** you sound trying to stuff deities into completely natural processes. Interpreting the Bible is akin to torturing a man; if you do it long enough, you can get it to say literally whatever you want.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
In what sense?
When you create a character in a game like WoW, are you there for the character or is the character there for you?

It is like that. A lot of people get all huffy because they are egotistical and think "I'M IMPORTANT!!!" but really, they're not. Each person is a speck, and in a religious context their importance to God is only as much as God feels they are important; it isn't determined by their actions or personality. That's why the Bible is so big on "unconditional love".
 

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
If your WoW character could ask you to stop sending him on missions where he will die, do you think he would?
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
If your WoW character could ask you to stop sending him on missions where he will die, do you think he would?
Do you think he would what? Ask you to stop sending him on missions? If he were programmed to have that ability.

There have been games where morality has become a key element to the game... it is all arbitrary in the game. You turn it off, nothing changes.


Both Franklin and Jefferson were for all intents and purposes atheists (arguably deists) and both highly critical of organized religion, Christianity especially. The notion that the founding fathers were Judeo-Christians is delusional at best.
This... was random. I didn't say anything about them being Christian. :\

So this automatically gives God a free pass to be a complete *******?

Honestly, you guys don't realize how ******** you sound trying to stuff deities into completely natural processes. Interpreting the Bible is akin to torturing a man; if you do it long enough, you can get it to say literally whatever you want.
This just kinda shows you don't "get it". You're still thinking from your perspective. Zoom out. You don't matter. What you define as a "*******" isn't what a ******* is, it is what you/I] think a ******* is.
 

GoldShadow

Marsilea quadrifolia
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
14,463
Location
Location: Location
The idea that people are inherently worth something and "equal" to one another is a new concept, and is ********. People are not equal.
I think this is the only instance in this thread where I agree with Overswarm! I think each of us has a different reason for believing it, but that's beside the point. Some people are definitely more productive, liked, and valuable to society than others.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
I think this is the only instance in this thread where I agree with Overswarm! I think each of us has a different reason for believing it, but that's beside the point. Some people are definitely more productive, liked, and valuable to society than others.
Sorry for not giving at least some due credit to Overswarm; I also agree with this.

the lady i mentioned from friday night
And I'm supposed to believe you just like that?

Pics or it didn't happen.
 

cman

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
593
Why are people still responding to this thread? The discussion here is, for the most part, very bad.
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
oh yea of course, a lady who comes to church that barely anyone from church knows, and she comes and just falls on the floor for no reason and she shakes as the preacher just happens to say "i rebuke you demons in the name of Jesus", yup totally fake.

but i dont expect you to believe it. i dont need you to believe it. im sorry but i can only take you so far. and then its up to you what you choose.
 

Cinder

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
3,255
Location
Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
oh yea of course, a lady who comes to church that barely anyone from church knows, and she comes and just falls on the floor for no reason and she shakes as the preacher just happens to say "i rebuke you demons in the name of Jesus", yup totally fake.
The preacher could have hired her...and don't say it's impossible, because once again, there's no proof he didn't...
 

Ace(WorshipMe)

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
42
hmm you know what according to the Bible God doesnt listen to a sinners prayer.

only if the sinner repents and asks that Jesus come into his heart, then God wil begin to listen.

i hope all the "studies" the scientists did were with actualy devoted christians. if not then it was a waste of time.

my girlfriends dad had cancer before he came to our church. he could barely walk. he used like a cane or something to walk. after 2 years of being in church he has no cancer. coincidence?

another woman in my church had cancer. this was about a year ago. she took kimo and all her hair fell out. now she has no cancer and her hair is growing back. coincidence?

a preacher came to our church about a month ago, and prayed for the sick. he has the gift of healing i believe.

about 3 people had back problems, healed on the spot.

there were a few women with ovaries pain all the time, healed on the spot.

there were a few other people who were healed to right there. all coincidence?

the same preacher came yesterday and cast out demons from 2 people.

you should have seen it. demons are real. the womens body shaking on the floor as the demons were cast out. sounds crazy right? its Biblical. the 2 women are normal women, actually one is around 18 or 19 and she has come to church before but she started to leave slowly. she came back yesterday and every demon inside her was cast out. the other woman who is around 45ish instantly took off her necklaces or "chains" as it made her feel chained. she began to cry and accepted Jesus.

you see you need to pray to God to cast out demons, you must pray in the name of Jesus.

not anyone can do this. it is a gift from God. you have to be mentally and spiritually ready.

you cannot honestly believe that answered prayers are coincidences.
A lot of people who get healed like that end up dying from the thing that was healed later on. Others don't because they got the normal treatment or they didn't have the serious problem they thought they had in the first place.

"The preacher could have hired her...and don't say it's impossible, because once again, there's no proof he didn't..."
-Cinder

You're giving it way too much credit. The woman probably genuinely thought she was possessed by demons. The whole thing was probably very real, it's just there are many psychological reasons things like this can happen. It just seems odd because we never hear much about the psychological and neurological explanations for these happenings, but they are out there and hardly news to the scientific community. Try looking into it, you might learn a lot of interesting things.
 

Cinder

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
3,255
Location
Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
lol the preacher came from puerto rico, the lady lives in the bronx theyve never met eachother in their lives, i guarantee youu
Well, they were in the same place, right? Was this his first day in the Bronx? Was this his first sermon with your church? They don't have to know each other personally for more than a few days...he could have just found someone off the streets...it's not impossible...

Point is, God isn't the only explanation...Ace and I have both presented other viable possibilities...
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
Well, they were in the same place, right? Was this his first day in the Bronx? Was this his first sermon with your church? They don't have to know each other personally for more than a few days...he could have just found someone off the streets...it's not impossible...

Point is, God isn't the only explanation...Ace and I have both presented other viable possibilities...
yes same place. we were in port chester, his second time there and second time preaching, they knew eachother for 0 days, your right its not impossible, but its highly unlikely.
just like us coming from matter that came from no where and something just happening creating us, yea.

point is, it was God. and if it was God, then why argue if he exists or not?

if you were there you would have been like omg its God

there were other visitors who where first timers going to church and they were freaked out, but they knew what was going on, and i think 2 or 3 people accepted Jesus that day. probably because they saw that and they realized demons are real, and if demons are real then God is real, there cant be good without evil, there cant be right without wrong. and another reason was that, that man speaks so powerfully its amazing. he spoke in spanish btw
 

Cinder

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
3,255
Location
Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
Have you even bothered trying to study other religions, or do you just assume that your god is the only possible god? Have you bothered reading up on Hinduism, Islam, or anything else?

And you can't prove it was god...and you have yet to disprove Ace's still viable alternative...
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
Have you even bothered trying to study other religions, or do you just assume that your god is the only possible god? Have you bothered reading up on Hinduism, Islam, or anything else?

And you can't prove it was god...and you have yet to disprove Ace's still viable alternative...
i havent studied for myself but ive heard this

http://www.esnips.com/doc/f7f86308-3b7e-48e0-81c9-163a8cf06d82/OHA---Chapter03

reallly good on the religion subject and the Bible.

why do you need to question so much?? honestly thats ********. there are millions of other "viable alternatives" but all of them are just you imagining things becuase you dont want to accept what i tell you is true.
 

kataklysm336

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
62
yes same place. we were in port chester, his second time there and second time preaching, they knew eachother for 0 days, your right its not impossible, but its highly unlikely.
just like us coming from matter that came from no where and something just happening creating us, yea.

point is, it was God. and if it was God, then why argue if he exists or not?

if you were there you would have been like omg its God

there were other visitors who where first timers going to church and they were freaked out, but they knew what was going on, and i think 2 or 3 people accepted Jesus that day. probably because they saw that and they realized demons are real, and if demons are real then God is real, there cant be good without evil, there cant be right without wrong. and another reason was that, that man speaks so powerfully its amazing. he spoke in spanish btw
So just because she shook on the floor meant she had demons? So where did those demons go? What did they look like? What did the demon itself sound like? What impact did the demon itself have?

And just because demons are real then God is real? Maybe it was just an angry spirit that is wandering Earth. Or maybe it was an alien. Or maybe it was mind-controlling parasitic bacteria. Oh wait all of those things are just crazy...

"Coming from matter that came from nowhere, and something just happened to create us?"

Are you aware of what you are saying. Here let me sum up why you are ********. Just replace a few words in that sentence with God and you get this.

"Coming from God, that came from nowhere, and he just happens to have the power to create us."

Yeah...
 

Tactical

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Somewhere with a horrible connection
Ok, first I'm going to reply to a few of your posts from near the start of the topic, then your latest post.
Overswarm said:
It's not a fallacy. I was explaining that it isn't illogical to choose a God among many any more than it is to use a toaster without knowing how it operates.
The thing is though, you can experiment with a toaster until you can deduce how to make it work correctly. You can't do the same with choosing a diety, and with the capacity for there to be an infinite number of possible deities to choose from, ever choosing the right one is statistically improbably.

Overswarm said:
Alphican, you are correct. The ultimate decision is to further our own knowledge and learn something new. Neither side is right or wrong, and anyone that decides that a side IS right or wrong... well, those people are the only losers here. Everyone else is just looking for new information.
That's the thing though, God isn't an answer to any question. If it is proven that He does exist, then everything that can ever be observed is boiled down to "God did it." Seeking to place God as the answer is debilitating to actual intellectual gain.

Overswarm said:
Logic is the bane of humanity, and of progress.
I wonder just how far we would have progressed if 2 + 2 = fish.

Overswarm said:
Logically, you should kill yourself right now. It is infinitely more likely you will experience more pain than pleasure in life, and it is infinitely more likely that you will die rather than live forever. It would be logical to kill yourself now in a painless fashion after spending all your money doing "fun" things to get the best ratio of happy times to bad times.
This is true, actually. Though your "have fun the suicide, yay!" tangent is kind of off since there is no difference between someone that died sad and someone that died happy. Really, I don't see what point you're trying to present here? "Logic is bad because its depressing?"


Overswarm said:
First of all, it is explicitly stated that all men are created equal. This is not that all men are equal. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson themselves repeatedly showed that they did not believe all people were equal. Thomas Jefferson even had slaves.
As can be gathered from the above paragraph, yes, all men are equal.


Overswarm said:
tactical said:
Well isn't he a nice guy? Regardless, no matter how "prefect" God is he is still an ******* and seeing as His Word (see the Bible) states that he is good and loving it seems he is also a liar. Doesn't seem all that perfect to me, what about you? (If you need me to point out all of the retarted moments in the Bible I'de be happy to)
In Korea, it is incredibly rude to leave a class while the teacher is lecturing. In America, it happens all the time. The difference in culture is slight in this regard, but enough to make an impact if you view American college classes through Korean eyes.

You are viewing God through the eyes of a mortal.

This is similar to a goomba thinking you are a jerk because you let mario step on his head, or mario thinking you are an unforgiving and malicious deity because you turned the power off on world 5-2.

Death is not an "end" to God. Hell, it isnt' even an end from a physical standpoint. The matter amount is the same, "dead" is just an arbitrary term. God is beyond that, and is able to look at it that way. Believe it or not, God isn't here for us. It's the other way around.
I... Don't think you actually replied to my sentance at all. I was making the point that God contradicts Himself in his own Word. You didn't refute that at all, unless I missed something.
 

Blackadder

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
3,164
Location
Purple
why do you need to question so much?? honestly thats ********. there are millions of other "viable alternatives" but all of them are just you imagining things becuase you dont want to accept what i tell you is true.
... ... ...

...

I-

... ...

Just. .. .... ... I mean... ...

...

... I can't even respond.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Ok, first I'm going to reply to a few of your posts from near the start of the topic, then your latest post.
The thing is though, you can experiment with a toaster until you can deduce how to make it work correctly. You can't do the same with choosing a diety, and with the capacity for there to be an infinite number of possible deities to choose from, ever choosing the right one is statistically improbably.
When someone gives you an analogy, it is more than likely they had a point to it rather than a savant-like realization that somehow a toaster could be accurately compared to God.

Re-evaluate your understanding or ask questions. Don't make blind statements. Does "I can figure out how a toaster works" really get to the point?

That's the thing though, God isn't an answer to any question. If it is proven that He does exist, then everything that can ever be observed is boiled down to "God did it." Seeking to place God as the answer is debilitating to actual intellectual gain.
This is irrelevant to what you quoted. I was stating that a conclusion would not be reached, and we were simply looking for more information. The Bible is the core text behind this, and not a single person here has memorized it. Most people haven't opened it in the past year, let alone read it. I know I could be better at it myself. Simply saying "God did it" and patting ourselves on the back wouldn't allow us to do that, but I said nothing of the sort.

I wonder just how far we would have progressed if 2 + 2 = fish.
One of the first things you are taught when you are debating is that whenever someone seems to jump from target to target with solidarity to each of their actions, they have an alterior motive that is more than likely pushed by emotion or a pre-conceived notion entering the debate. Very few follow Aristotle's line of reasoning, the whole "the surest sign of intelligence is the ability to entertain an idea without accepting it". This being the case, most argue against something with the intent of destroying the arguer, not the argument. In this, you did not take the 5 seconds to realize that my point was obviously not that we should abandon simple mathmatical concepts. I'm unsure what you were attempting to gain through this, but I'm sure the internet is a better place for your input.

This is true, actually. Though your "have fun the suicide, yay!" tangent is kind of off since there is no difference between someone that died sad and someone that died happy. Really, I don't see what point you're trying to present here? "Logic is bad because its depressing?"
Logic is not bad, it is just bad when it is not used properly. Logic is a veiled term more often than not, and generally should be replaced with "my line of thinking...". Logic, for some people, is a synonym for truth. This is not the case, and is what I'm pointing at.


As can be gathered from the above paragraph, yes, all men are equal.
There's a difference between your sentence and theirs, and it is an important word.


I... Don't think you actually replied to my sentance at all. I was making the point that God contradicts Himself in his own Word. You didn't refute that at all, unless I missed something.
You are judging God through your own personal concepts of virtue and vice. Do you really believe that you can accurately do that in a world where simply going to another country invalidates most of what you consider "good"?


why do you need to question so much?? honestly thats ********.
I agree, questioning is ********. Pursuit of knowledge through questions is not. Many of the people here are merely questioning and believe they need complete concrete answers before they can gain anything, which is as foolish as needing to know how to run before you crawl.... but actual questioning in an attempt to get answers rather than to prove or disprove something? That's worthwhile and far from ********.
 

Tactical

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Somewhere with a horrible connection
Overswarm said:
When someone gives you an analogy, it is more than likely they had a point to it rather than a savant-like realization that somehow a toaster could be accurately compared to God.
You made an anaolgy, and I responded within the pretenses of your analogy. If you can not convey your own ideas accurately through an analogy it is more effective to just state them outright.

Overswarm said:
This is irrelevant to what you quoted. I was stating that a conclusion would not be reached, and we were simply looking for more information. The Bible is the core text behind this, and not a single person here has memorized it. Most people haven't opened it in the past year, let alone read it. I know I could be better at it myself. Simply saying "God did it" and patting ourselves on the back wouldn't allow us to do that, but I said nothing of the sort.
I may be mistaken, but you have said several times through out the thread that God makes the rules. In that line of reasoning everything that we know is false because it is controlled by the whims of God. If the Bible is true "God did it" is, quite literally, the answer to any problem ever.

Overswarm said:
In this, you did not take the 5 seconds to realize that my point was obviously not that we should abandon simple mathmatical concepts. I'm unsure what you were attempting to gain through this, but I'm sure the internet is a better place for your input.
I was simply refuting that logic is the bane of progress, nothing more and nothing less.

Overswarm said:
Logic is not bad, it is just bad when it is not used properly. Logic is a veiled term more often than not, and generally should be replaced with "my line of thinking...". Logic, for some people, is a synonym for truth. This is not the case, and is what I'm pointing at.
Smart man. If you had simply wrote this in your first post I would have agreed completely.

Overswarm said:
There's a difference between your sentence and theirs, and it is an important word.
I was actually referring to the paragraph above the response, the one about death. In the end all beings that exist are equal, and in that respect, all men.

Overswarm said:
You are judging God through your own personal concepts of virtue and vice. Do you really believe that you can accurately do that in a world where simply going to another country invalidates most of what you consider "good"?
Actually, I'm judging God by the standards of the Bible. Do unto others indeed, He is quite the blight on existence.

Overswarm said:
I agree, questioning is ********. Pursuit of knowledge through questions is not. Many of the people here are merely questioning and believe they need complete concrete answers before they can gain anything, which is as foolish as needing to know how to run before you crawl.... but actual questioning in an attempt to get answers rather than to prove or disprove something? That's worthwhile and far from ********.
I completely agree. Just saying that if they are *really* after the pursuit of knowledge then they would drop all pretenses of God being it. As stated before, the instant He is accepted as the answer it all becomes meaningless.

Overswarm said:
I'm unsure what you were attempting to gain through this, but I'm sure the internet is a better place for your input.
I'm bored. I'm at my house, so I cant play any fo my online fps games, (TF2 ftw) my Wii is at a friend's place because his broke, and I naturally like online debating. On a side note, you're also the only person here on the religious side of the debate that can actually argue well, and the ones that can't argue well are all ready getting thrashed by multiple forumites.
 

curiousthoughtsbear

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
159
Death is not an "end" to God. Hell, it isnt' even an end from a physical standpoint. The matter amount is the same, "dead" is just an arbitrary term. God is beyond that, and is able to look at it that way. Believe it or not, God isn't here for us. It's the other way around.

You assume "we" serve a purpose. So your statement that "we're here for God" is without basis. Also, if one agrees that "God" is omni-etc..... then it implies literally everything, from the simplest origins to the most complex, the past, present, and the future. Such a thing is unlikely to have autonomy in the sense that we understand->an inference based on how you discuss the topic of "God."


"God," for all intents and purposes is just a notion of hope and stability in our lives.




Heh...one would think you'd be more careful of your own interpretations, you've read WATCHMEN haven't you. Maybe you should think back about Dr. Manhattan.
 

SwastikaPyle

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
811
The OP's post is hilarious to me. He tries so hard to exploit every little flaw he can find in the theory of evolution.

I'll be ****ed if he'd ever try so hard to scrutinize the Bible. You'd be astonished at the discrepancies you'll find.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
You made an anaolgy, and I responded within the pretenses of your analogy. If you can not convey your own ideas accurately through an analogy it is more effective to just state them outright.
If you see an analogy about how you choosing a diety before knowing everything about it is comparable to using something like a toaster before knowing how it works.... and then you ignore the point of the analogy completely and say "But I can figure out how the toaster works!", we have larger problems. You basically took the analogy as "God is comparable to a toaster".

I may be mistaken, but you have said several times through out the thread that God makes the rules. In that line of reasoning everything that we know is false because it is controlled by the whims of God. If the Bible is true "God did it" is, quite literally, the answer to any problem ever.
This is an argument between pre-destination, fatalism, free will, etc., etc., and is a much larger argument. I don't think you can use this assumption as an argument until you've proven it, seeing as how it has been debated for quite some time.

I was simply refuting that logic is the bane of progress, nothing more and nothing less.
Stop reading things literally and out of context.

Smart man. If you had simply wrote this in your first post I would have agreed completely.
When I debate I generally don't feel I have to say "Wow, that's silly becase reason A, B, C, D, E, F, G...." after someone says "I think everyone should commit suicide after taking a bath in warm jello". If I do, it isn't worth debating. Stop reading things literally and out of context.

I was actually referring to the paragraph above the response, the one about death. In the end all beings that exist are equal, and in that respect, all men.
This isn't true.

Actually, I'm judging God by the standards of the Bible. Do unto others indeed, He is quite the blight on existence.
Why can God be judged in a similar way Humans can be judged? That's a little asinine, I think.

I completely agree. Just saying that if they are *really* after the pursuit of knowledge then they would drop all pretenses of God being it. As stated before, the instant He is accepted as the answer it all becomes meaningless.
Or more meaningful, depending on your stance.
 

AltF4

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
5,042
Location
2.412 – 2.462 GHz
Overswarm:

What you are telling us is that we serve some purpose to god, in a similar manner to how a character serves a gamer. (For future reference, video game analogies tend to turn out poorly, except in rare occasions)

What is this purpose? In fact what purpose could a human possibly serve to an omnipotent god? You do know what omnipotent means, don't you? It means that no matter what you're talking about, god is better at it than you. There is nothing you are capable of doing that can serve a god any purpose.


The typical answer to this is (and the one I suspect you will respond with) is that we provide enjoyment, or some kind of fatherly satisfaction by being good little subservient creatures. But this has several fatal flaws:

1) This assumes that your omnipotent god has emotions that are beyond his direct control. Which means that he is not omnipotent.

2) Euthyphro's Dilemma. You are saying that pious actions are beyond god's control. IE: God does not determine what is right and wrong, he merely abides by them. Also making god not omnipotent.

3) If pious actions are universal and beyond god's control, then he is also subject to them. Which means that creating a world where creatures suffer endlessly all for this god's enjoyment is a bad thing to do. Which makes god a malevolent god.
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
Overswarm:

What you are telling us is that we serve some purpose to god, in a similar manner to how a character serves a gamer. (For future reference, video game analogies tend to turn out poorly, except in rare occasions)

What is this purpose? In fact what purpose could a human possibly serve to an omnipotent god? You do know what omnipotent means, don't you? It means that no matter what you're talking about, god is better at it than you. There is nothing you are capable of doing that can serve a god any purpose.


The typical answer to this is (and the one I suspect you will respond with) is that we provide enjoyment, or some kind of fatherly satisfaction by being good little subservient creatures. But this has several fatal flaws:

1) This assumes that your omnipotent god has emotions that are beyond his direct control. Which means that he is not omnipotent.

2) Euthyphro's Dilemma. You are saying that pious actions are beyond god's control. IE: God does not determine what is right and wrong, he merely abides by them. Also making god not omnipotent.

3) If pious actions are universal and beyond god's control, then he is also subject to them. Which means that creating a world where creatures suffer endlessly all for this god's enjoyment is a bad thing to do. Which makes god a malevolent god.
you got it all wrong. our purpose in life is i believe 2 things. one is to praise God, then second one is to win peoples hearts for God, like what we are trying to do now. we want you to see the light and understand that we are not just in this world to live and die, but we are here to live and die for christ. and God created hell for the Devil and his followers. the devil came before we did. he was the most beautiful or handsome angel. but he tried to compare himself to God. and he was cast into hell. like us he created the angels with free will. hell wasnt meant to be for us. but when eve fell in temptation we all became sinners and now we have a choice to make, follow God or the devil. if you arent with God you are against him.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Overswarm:

What you are telling us is that we serve some purpose to god, in a similar manner to how a character serves a gamer. (For future reference, video game analogies tend to turn out poorly, except in rare occasions)

What is this purpose? In fact what purpose could a human possibly serve to an omnipotent god? You do know what omnipotent means, don't you? It means that no matter what you're talking about, god is better at it than you. There is nothing you are capable of doing that can serve a god any purpose.


The typical answer to this is (and the one I suspect you will respond with) is that we provide enjoyment, or some kind of fatherly satisfaction by being good little subservient creatures. But this has several fatal flaws:

1) This assumes that your omnipotent god has emotions that are beyond his direct control. Which means that he is not omnipotent.

2) Euthyphro's Dilemma. You are saying that pious actions are beyond god's control. IE: God does not determine what is right and wrong, he merely abides by them. Also making god not omnipotent.

3) If pious actions are universal and beyond god's control, then he is also subject to them. Which means that creating a world where creatures suffer endlessly all for this god's enjoyment is a bad thing to do. Which makes god a malevolent god.
I can only guess as to why. It states a few times in the Bible reasons why we're here, and they all point to us being here "for God". Why God wants us here is not stated explicitly, though there are some hints.

In all reality, we could very much be a game to him. Maybe, since he is omnipotent, he wants to create something that isn't and promise himself he will let it grow just to see how it turns out. Who knows?
 

manhunter098

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
Orlando, Sarasota, Tampa (FL)
I can only guess as to why. It states a few times in the Bible reasons why we're here, and they all point to us being here "for God". Why God wants us here is not stated explicitly, though there are some hints.

In all reality, we could very much be a game to him. Maybe, since he is omnipotent, he wants to create something that isn't and promise himself he will let it grow just to see how it turns out. Who knows?
But as an omniscient being he already would know how it turns out, an omniscient being cannot be curious because an omniscient being knows everything.
 

kr3wman

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
4,639
you got it all wrong. our purpose in life is i believe 2 things. one is to praise God, then second one is to win peoples hearts for God, like what we are trying to do now. we want you to see the light and understand that we are not just in this world to live and die, but we are here to live and die for christ. and God created hell for the Devil and his followers. the devil came before we did. he was the most beautiful or handsome angel. but he tried to compare himself to God. and he was cast into hell. like us he created the angels with free will. hell wasnt meant to be for us. but when eve fell in temptation we all became sinners and now we have a choice to make, follow God or the devil. if you arent with God you are against him.
I read this, and then I wondered where was the answer to the statement by AltF4.

I just couldn't find it.
 

curiousthoughtsbear

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
159
I can only guess as to why. It states a few times in the Bible reasons why we're here, and they all point to us being here "for God". Why God wants us here is not stated explicitly, though there are some hints.

In all reality, we could very much be a game to him. Maybe, since he is omnipotent, he wants to create something that isn't and promise himself he will let it grow just to see how it turns out. Who knows?


Basically AltF4 ***** the notion of omnipotence, given a "Christian" deity.

If one is omnipotent then you already know how stuff will turn out.............and why play any games when one already knows every move as well as the outcome.

To project any element of humanity upon something other than humans is just supposition, and even then each and every human is, was, and will be very different.
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
Seriously, Bill Hicks is waiting. Justify this creationists: "Dinosaurs".
yes max there were dinosaurs, you are correct. whats the point of saying dinosaurs?

But as an omniscient being he already would know how it turns out, an omniscient being cannot be curious because an omniscient being knows everything.
lets put it this way, God does whatever he wants cuz hes God.

I read this, and then I wondered where was the answer to the statement by AltF4.

I just couldn't find it.
are you serious? he asked why did he create us and why would he make hell, its right there.

Basically AltF4 ***** the notion of omnipotence, given a "Christian" deity.

If one is omnipotent then you already know how stuff will turn out.............and why play any games when one already knows every move as well as the outcome.

To project any element of humanity upon something other than humans is just supposition, and even then each and every human is, was, and will be very different.
what does it matter if hes omnipotent? or omniscient? or anything?

try to look at it like this, we dont know Gods point of view, so why should we try and picture it? none of us know what God is thinking so it doesnt matter.

you are arguing on retatrded things. the point is what we do with our lives. and the consequences or rewards of what we do in it.

all youve been saying is that "if" and "but"

but you dont really get it do you?

like mark cahill said, there is always a possibility that we are wrong about our eternity.

there IS eternal truth. the question is in finding. since you "think" there is no God, you obviously think there is nothing after death. you could be wrong.

since i believe in my God, i believe i will be going to heaven or hell. i could be wrong.

you can believe in reincarnation. and you could be wrong. but there is eternal truth, and im just trying to help you understand that. do you want to die and be wrong about it and spend your eternity in hell? are you sure about your answer?

dont say "i dont care, if God made hell he doesnt love me so i would rather spend it there" blah blah blah. thats all talk, if you were there you would care. anyone would. stop trying to make it seem as if going to hell would be an easy stay. i dont want anyone to go to hell, its a terrible place, if you only understood what you would be avoiding you would be just like me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom