Epita Smash Arena 2 - Paris - 23 & 24 February 2008 - Up to 256 Players !

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

omg ...
plairnk.. go to an office and order your passport :D

need... more... godlike...sheik..at...epita!!!!

but yeah... i dont think you could manage a flight on such a short notice anyway XD

 

[Fuzzyness]

still no seeds? o_O

 

[TelpeFion]

Or maybe you forgot something =)

Pretty much what Jeffz0r said; I didn't forget anything. I predicted the results like 2 months ago.

 

[°UÇK]

Pools and seeding please, only a week to go

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

in this country getting a passport seems to take ****ing months -_-

we aren't really very....efficient over here LOL

its too late now however... isnt there anything like a method to get an "fast id" ive got one u can use it 3 months and they give it to you just like 2h hours after you asked for it -.-

 

[Slhoka]

/!\ REALLY IMPORTANT /!\
HERE ARE THE AUTORIZATION FORMS YOU HAVE TO FILL FOR ESA2
NO FORM, NO TOURNAMENT !

Please transmit it to other everyone coming.


Edit : woot, nice post to beginn the 100th page

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

i dont have a printer ...
can´t we fill out those forms at the venue if we´re already 18?

 

[P!z@]

my printer doesnt work my friends printers dont work to !
how can I join the tourney without these forms ?

maybe with ha hand writet text from my parentz end theire passport copys ?

 

[Cycom]

i dont have a printer ...
can´t we fill out those forms at the venue if we´re already 18?

Yes you can. But for those of you who have a printer, please come with the completed form !

my printer doesnt work my friends printers dont work to !
how can I join the tourney without these forms ?

maybe with ha hand writet text from my parentz end theire passport copys ?

It will work, your parents have to write the whole parental authorization (or come with you to sign one at the venue :D)

See you next week !

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

You know that this is quite strange for a video game tournament? Care to explain?

I'm too lazy to print it out so i'll sign it at the tourney.

 

[Cycom]

It really isn't. I don't know about your laws, but in France, we need your authorization to photograph and film you and then publish those photographs on our Website.

Most of the events don't care about these details, but we have to, if we want to be out of trouble.

 

[Slhoka]

You know that this is quite strange for a video game tournament? Care to explain?

I'm too lazy to print it out so i'll sign it at the tourney.

It's called serious organization.
And please print it, we might want to be lazy with you, too.

 

[Marc]

Burned.

 

[Linkje]

It's called serious organization.
And please print it, we might want to be lazy with you, too.

Lol my parents are dead.... and then ?

edit: OK they aren't but what the hell I signed in 3 times already I even payed, what if I can't make my parents do the signature, you'll give me my money back ?

anyway Just think before you do something cause this is pretty lame and you know it XD

I'll get it signed. just because I will make a lot of money when I win the tournament

If I'd travel to france andyou wouldn't let me in because I didn't get anything signed in one weeks notice I would (try) and sew you for everything you'd have (ok that's my law & order way of talking.).
but seriously if you do something like this, you should do it a month in advance or so.

 

[Slhoka]

Lol my parents are dead.... and then ?

edit: OK they aren't but what the hell I signed in 3 times already I even payed, what if I can't make my parents do the signature, you'll give me my money back ?

anyway Just think before you do something cause this is pretty lame and you know it XD

I'll get it signed. just because I will make a lot of money when I win the tournament

If I'd travel to france andyou wouldn't let me in because I didn't get anything signed in one weeks notice I would (try) and sew you for everything you'd have (ok that's my law & order way of talking.).
but seriously if you do something like this, you should do it a month in advance or so.

The announcement of a mandatory parental autorization was done weeks (monthes ?) ago.

And we're sorry to prepare things like a insurance for players attending the event. I know it's shameful. Sorry 'bout that.

The only thing I agree with is that the forms came pretty late. But as I said, we made a announce for that before.

 

[Marc]

People have to realise that with so many people, things are much more likely to go wrong. This amount is unlike anything we've had before and I for one am glad that the hosts respond to that in a fitting way, even if that means we have to fill in some extra stuff.

 

[Ryuker]

Sorry to ask this but the rules aren't listing it so I guess stage banning is off?

I also have a question about pouls. It says the results of pouls will determine who goes to the brackets but doesn't state how many will go into the brackets. It also doesn't state how the poul results are determined and I had some problems with that in the past. What happens in case of a tie? Do you count sets > wins and losses> personal results before it is a tie or is it just set> wins> personal results? I favor counting losses cause I think each match matters but I do not know how you determine this.

Then something else regarding stalling. The rules state it is completely forbidden but you can't judge that since who is stalling is hard to determine. Most rules state what you can't do too stall but if I chose to stay at the other part of the stage and wait when I have the advantage is that considered stalling as well? Are you saying I can't laser camp with fox or falco? So yeah that rule isn't clearly described.
The rules also don't state a time limit on the matches but that's gonna be 8 minutes for singles and 10 for teams right?

Also wobbling banned in teams seems weird and I don't see why you would do that. Besides that the rules seem fine.

Not trying to start a debate since it's a little late for that but I just like to know what rules I am accepting when entering a tournament. Especially if I have to sign a form for it.

 

[Helios]

I also have a question about pouls.

They're called "pools". Happy to clear that up, let's move on!

Also wobbling banned AT ALL seems weird and I don't see why you would do that.

The French are scrubs, that's why.

 

[Slhoka]

People have to realise that with so many people, things are much more likely to go wrong. This amount is unlike anything we've had before and I for one am glad that the hosts respond to that in a fitting way, even if that means we have to fill in some extra stuff.

Thanks for understanding our point of view.
Also, I was a bit harsh while saying it in my last post, but if all those who can could print the form and fill it, it would be easier for everyone. It would make the tournament entry faster ==> freeplay earlier

[Some interesting questions]

Stage banning off.
32 pools of 8 players ==> 4 qualified
16 pools of 8 players ==> 4 qualified
64-man brackets

As for the ties, I think we'll count losses. Gotta check what we decided after discussing it though.
About stalling : you know as well as me the difference between camping and stalling. Camping is allowed. Stalling isn't. You can't go under FoD wallbombing with Peach. But if you fear a mighty French Falco and don't wanna attack first, you can camp with your laser.

Ah, and the finding wobbling is one of the worst thing that happened to the smash competitive scene. Guess what I mean

The French are scrubs, that's why.

Ande rili proud off zat

 

[Ryuker]

K so sheiks up b ledge stall is allowed? You got too put what you just said in the rules btw. Otherwise you will have confusion about when your stalling. I know the difference from the most part. But the border between the 2 is ver thin. Also I was hoping for a explanation why wobbling is banned for teams cause I don't really get that. It's not near as effective in teams so why ban worthy.

 

[peyudosmith]

so we have to print that document and fill it in hand writing, right?

pd: wobbling in teams should be allowed as Ryuker said, but if it isn't I don't mind.

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

K so sheiks up b ledge stall is allowed? You got too put what you just said in the rules btw. Otherwise you will have confusion about when your stalling. I know the difference from the most part. But the border between the 2 is ver thin. Also I was hoping for a explanation why wobbling is banned for teams cause I don't really get that. It's not near as effective in teams so why ban worthy.

It's banned because the french don't like it, not because it's broken. Why would they like it in teams but not in singles? Stop arguing about it, the rules won't change.

Wobbling has never been broken.

 

[Ryuker]

I'm no arguing or debating about it. I'm just asking for clarification.

 

[Slhoka]

It's banned because the french don't like it, not because it's broken. Why would they like it in teams but not in singles? Stop arguing about it, the rules won't change.

Wobbling has never been broken.

Wobbling IS broken. That's our point of view was discussed over and over and it just happen that the Frenchies consider techniques requiring almost no skill and leaving no chance for the opponent to survive as broken. It sounds like pure logic to me, but at least, consider it as a conviction. Thanks. Using something else than "they're French" or "French are scrubs" would be a nice and clever thing, too. It funny once or twice, not more.
Wobbling debate closed.

Ryuker, I'll try to make a few more precisions about stalling. The basic thing is : if you stall because you don't wanna attack first, no problem. If you do it to wait for the end of the 8 mn, it's banned. So except for rising pound or wallbombing, which are some really obvious stalls that should be banned, the main point to decided what should be banned and what shouldn't is it's duration.
If you stall for like... more than 30-40 seconds with your opponent trying to attack you, yeah, you're performing the stalling we don't wanna see.

 

[Luma]

well, i dont think shino stalling should be banned in anyway, cuz its really easy to stop it, if ur opponent cant do it, well, his problem imo

and i know what they are trying to say about wobbling in teams, ur teammate can stop the wobble pretty easy, u would have need a double ic team and both would need to grab AND then have to wobble, and well if it comes to this point i dont think the other team would win anyway


hope u got my point =D

 

[Slhoka]

well, i dont think shine stalling should be banned in anyway, cuz its really easy to stop it, if ur opponent cant do it, well, his problem imo

Shino*
I agree, though I still think that doing it during a long should be banned. But anyway, if you're good enough to perform a shino stall that you're opponent can't stop, you're likely to be better than him, so I don't think it's that much of a problem.

and i know what they are trying to say about wobbling in teams, ur teammate can stop the wobble pretty easy, u would have need a double ic team and both would need to grab AND then have to wobble, and well if it comes to this point i dont think the other team would win anyway


hope u got my point =D

I got your point, and I understand it. But I'm still in favor of banning it, because even in team, it's not that hard to find enough time to deal at least 30% and a smash if you've got your teammate backing you. And since the opponent has no way to escape, it shouldn't happen during a competitive match (not to say it shouldn't happen at all, imo). Chain grabs work quite well, and are not broken like Wobbling, so you can rely on them.

 

[Helios]

Gay =/= Broken
When people start winning tourneys just because of wobbling, I'll agree that it's broken.
(And I know we already went through this, just wanted to clarify )

Also, running away for 8 mins straight shouldn't be banned, only if it's impossible do hinder, such as rising pound or peach bomber stalling.

 

[Fuzzyness]

rising pound = nearly impossible to pull off consistently, peach bomber eventually goes lower ( I think its like wall jumps?) so i dont see how they're even gonna stall for minutes anyway >_>

 

[Samochan]

I agree with helios here, things like laser spam to run away are common tactics which could be considered stalling or running away the timer when someone is on the lead for like 30 seconds or so. Such things shouldn't be banned, cause you can still catch your opponent, he's not impervious. And it's very hard to enforce such rules, one reason why temple got banned was cause we cannot enforce such rules as not laser spam and run away infinitely. On sheik up b ledgestall there are still frames in which sheik is not invulnerable, but I'm not certain if it's negated if someone does it perfectly. But it's still a good defensive tactic and not used in stalling things, unlike what jiggs rising pound can be used, luigi stairs etc.

If I were in % lead, I should be allowed to stall a bit and run away from my opponent if the timer is ticking, cause we're playing to win the match. At that point whomever has the least% is on the lead, so the best tactic to use would be run away and stay out of trouble. Why would I be forced to attack someone when there is no need to and I could win by not attacking but run away for like 30 seconds. If that person on the lead would be forced to attack the opposing player, that would give the opponent an advantage, all that % you worked hard on and onl to realise the clock is ticking, the lead player would be forced to advance and risk getting hit cause it would be considered lol stalling if he just dodged things. We can't exacly ban jumping, running, dodging or rolling now can we? >_> And every tourney nowdays bans stalling, but only when the person doing it is impervious to everything, not cause they run away from things in which they can be intercepted. Foxes do such tactics like all the time.

I say only ban the common stall as in if person stalling is impervious to everything or way out of reach, then it should be banned. But if it's up to the players to catch someone just runnign away, that shouldn't be banned cause unlike on Hyrule where fox can run in circles, on neutral stages the stage runs out somewhere and they're forced to turn back, even with platforms they cannot infinitely run in circles. And if they can, that's players skill versus someone who's not skilled enough yet to catch that someone that's plain running. Running is definitely not broken enough to warrant a ban.

I have a good example here to back up my argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlY6uuNI_kg

Banned? >_>

 

[°UÇK]

I read here on SWF about a very special case of "stalling". Even though this situation is very unlikely to happen again, I would like somebody official to define this being a stall or not:

In an american tournament match a player called tichinde (playing as fox, one stock advantage) was blaster spamming his opponents fox. The opponent reflectored the blaster and was caught in the stun of the hidden reflector. Tichinde kept blastering until the timer ran out and won with one stock advantage. And 999% damage...

Kinda hilarious but I wouldnt want to lose a match because of this. Stalling? Or just plain "lame"?
Is the person trapped going to lose the match if he distracts the "staller" by i.e. pausing or reallife distraction?

 

[ajp_anton]

I'm currently experimenting with nLite to create the best Windows installation on my computer. Should I have anything special on it? Programs installed, videos, ...? There's no need to worry about hard drive space.

 

[Ryuker]

@ shloka: I know that. I'm just saying you need to mention it in the rules more clearly. As it is in the rules now If I was playing by the playing to win mindset I would be able to ban any sheik who does the ledge stall to me as it is described in the rules that stalling is forbidden.

That's why I'm insisting on the rules being more clear on this point and mentioning what is banned to stall in a match. It's to prevent confusion. I don't wanna start a debate about this you guys made your choices and I respect them. I just want it be stated in the rules so I won't have arguements about it during the tournament or there is any confusion between players.

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

Wobbling IS broken. That's our point of view.

Do you even know what defines "broken"?

It's not like an opinion. Its not like you can have a vote about if something is broken. If something is broken, then IT ****ING BREAKS THE GAME! Then it wins tournies. Then it would be clear to everyone that it would be broken.

techniques requiring almost no skill and leaving no chance for the opponent to survive as broken

Uhm, are you talking about falco or about wobbling?

For falco, you don't even need a grab. And falco also doesn't require skill. Oh, and falco can do that to his opponent 4 times in a match, while a good ic's can wobble his opponent at most like twice a match.

So in terms of easyness, lameness, and skillless: falco>wobbling. You're going to ban falco now?

And another practicle example for you. I've played amsah's ic's someday, and he tried to wobble me in that matches. He wobbled me once in 3 matches. (and i shine spiked him once, hehe)
So this means pretty much: Best player in europe + "broken technique" cant easily beat me? LOL quite amusing.

On a side note, wobbling is gay And i'm not trying to offend you or something, just point out some things

 

[Marc]

I read here on SWF about a very special case of "stalling". Even though this situation is very unlikely to happen again, I would like somebody official to define this being a stall or not:

In an american tournament match a player called tichinde (playing as fox, one stock advantage) was blaster spamming his opponents fox. The opponent reflectored the blaster and was caught in the stun of the hidden reflector. Tichinde kept blastering until the timer ran out and won with one stock advantage. And 999% damage...

Kinda hilarious but I wouldnt want to lose a match because of this. Stalling? Or just plain "lame"?
Is the person trapped going to lose the match if he distracts the "staller" by i.e. pausing or reallife distraction?

That possibility has been known for a while and I think it's illegal. If it happens, contact a TO right away.

 

[Tonb3rry]

Ivo: Your last post should be banned as lameness. I suppose you don't play Falco, do you?

 

[Slhoka]

I'm currently experimenting with nLite to create the best Windows installation on my computer. Should I have anything special on it? Programs installed, videos, ...? There's no need to worry about hard drive space.

Hum... I don't think we'll need anything special. The only software we'll use is TIO, and I'll run it on my computer.

Btw, I started doing the pools. They'll be ready on Tuesday or earlier. They won't be the final version because some people didn't register on cycom's website, but well, you'll have the main idea of your pool.

 

[Slhoka]

Yeah, double post, I know.
But I finished the seeding, which was based on the list of Cycom's website.
My conclusion is : too many people are missing if I don't want to publish pools that won't change too much.

That's why I'll ask those who didn't register on Cycom's list.
THOSE WHO WON'T BE ON CYCOM'S LIST AFTER TUESDAY WILL RECEIVE A BOTTOM SEEDING.
So I'll release the almost definitive pools on wednesday, around 1 or 2 am. So tell everyone you know to register on the list (and not only on the website) before this limit.

Here's the list of the players who aren't on the list :

Sweden : Nedech, Ironass, Totte (don't remember which ones won't go, Helios told me something about that ^^')

The Netherlands : Down A

Spain : Iced

Switzerland : Germann, Matth, KMA, Xav

Germany : Till, perfect_shadow

Find a way to contact them or to make them register.

Edit : You have to register here: http://www.cycom-xperience.com/en/
REGISTER ON THE SITE AND ON THE LIST.

Thanks in advance

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

For falco, you don't even need a grab. And falco also doesn't require skill. Oh, and falco can do that to his opponent 4 times in a match, while a good ic's can wobble his opponent at most like twice a match.

So in terms of easyness, lameness, and skillless: falco>wobbling. You're going to ban falco now?

ehrr.. no. period.

 

[Seretur]

I do agree with the decision of banning wobbling... wobbling is just a bug of the game and it's nothing about skills or mindgames or whatever...

if it's not that good as some of you say, trying to defend it, then you won't be so sad if it's banned..
if it is, it's right to ban it.

About the forms to fill... just do it, and be happy to partecipate to a well organized tournament.. you'll just need half an hour or so to fill it, imagine how long the organizers have been organizing everything.

 

[Slhoka]

About the forms to fill... just do it, and be happy to partecipate to a well organized tournament.. you'll just need half an hour or so to fill it, imagine how long the organizers have been organizing everything.

Thanks a lot for being comprehensive. But half an hour ? Either your printer or your hand writing is pretty slow

And about wobbling, please stop arguing : it has been debated for a long time, and both parties know the point of view of the othres. And anyway, it won't change anything for this tournament.

I'll try to give a more detailled explanations of what kind of stalling we'll allow when I'll have time, that is to say tomorrow evening or tuesday.