Eor's Hellhouse Mafia - Night 2 (totally cancelled)

[Mr.Lombardi34]

He's not talking about who was mafia in the past. He's telling everyone to claim town and if someone refuses they are mafia because their role won't allow them to lie. Makes no sense to me and it's risky.

 

[ender]

How is it risky? I know three seems kinda weird, but Mr.lombardi kinda jumped in on him. seems like a good plan by the mafia. ugh, there are a lot of posts but still a lot of people arnt even really posting.

 

[Rici]

He's listing the people who have literally said:"I'm town". I think it's useless because I don't think there will ever be a role where you can't lie about your alignment. I also think it's kind of crazy that people think that <3 would be able to kill you if you said: I'm town.

 

[Rici]

That last post was for Xsyven, I had my browser open while I was gone, so I thought he had the last post when I was typing mine.

 

[KevinM]

Actually not being able to lie, would make sense, its something to think about.. but saying that those five aren't mafia because they didn't lie is an extremely flawed plan.. because they might just not have that role.

Again debating roles with so many possible roles in here is just stupid. It's a waste of time where we could think of better ways to find people.

 

[Xsyven]

...oh.

Well, that's a weird theory. I guess it makes sense, but if they weren't allowed to lie, what'd stop them from simply... not posting? And the fact that over half of the entrants aren't posting anyway isn't helping either. We'd best be saving this theory for less people.

 

[Pythag]

I have since caught up. My last post was ********. There were things I really hadn't checked up on.
What proof do we have that you're town though <3?
couldn't this be a way for an independent to sort out the mafia and then go ape?
And lets not forget that some characters have the potential to show up as town when they are not.

 

[Mediocre]

He's listing the people who have literally said:"I'm town". I think it's useless because I don't think there will ever be a role where you can't lie about your alignment. I also think it's kind of crazy that people think that <3 would be able to kill you if you said: I'm town.

I agree that both ideas are unlikely to be true. I went along with <3's plan because there seemed to be a very small chance of a reward with zero risk. I hadn't considered that he might have a role where he might need to make people say a specific phrase, but that counterbalances any small chance of benefiting from this plan with a risk that is at least equal, if not greater.

Now I'm actually against his plan, rather than just being neutral to it. I'd appreciate it if he gave up on it, because it's just attracting unnecessary attention to him and preventing any real progress from being made.

 

[Flipstar]

I'm actually afraid to say if i'm the "phrase", because i'm wary of <3's abilities. I'd of course be glad to say the phrase if nothing happens to the people who have said it at night, but right now i must simply refuse to not do it. I'm really suspicious of <3, i don't really understand the point of us saying the "phrase", but then again he may have an ability to tell truth from lies. I'm suspicious of <3's idea, and i'm not going to risk myself getting killed just to say the "phrase"

 

[Mediocre]

I'd of course be glad to say the phrase if nothing happens to the people who have said it at night

That wouldn't be any kind of proof at all. If we followed that logic, he could simply hold off one night and then get everyone to say the phrase the next day.

One day is not nearly enough. Only near the very end of the game can you usually logically deduce a person's abilities. Before that, you're not likely to know unless they tell you, the cop investigates them and tells you, or they're killed and you find out postmortem.

I don't think it's likely that <3 has the particular ability that everyone is throwing around right now, but it's a possibility that's too dangerous to ignore.

 

[Mr.Lombardi34]

i don't really understand the point of us saying the "phrase", but then again he may have an ability to tell truth from lies. "

That is actually a more likely possibility flipstar! I'm not gonna go with any role possiblity yet, but that actually could be. All I know is that this whole town claiming thing is not what <3 says it's for. Trust me, it has to do with his role.

 

[Flipstar]

That wouldn't be any kind of proof at all. If we followed that logic, he could simply hold off one night and then get everyone to say the phrase the next day.

One day is not nearly enough. Only near the very end of the game can you usually logically deduce a person's abilities. Before that, you're not likely to know unless they tell you, the cop investigates them and tells you, or they're killed and you find out postmortem.

I don't think it's likely that <3 has the particular ability that everyone is throwing around right now, but it's a possibility that's too dangerous to ignore.

That is true, even if nothing happened it wouldn't prove anything, put i'd still be at ease for a little. Re-thinking I really don't think that i would or should say the "phrase".I'd rather not be in a situation where i'm doing something without knowing the consequences.
Right not I am totally against saying the "phrase". Without knowing the consequence, it is too dangerous. However, i'm not pointing my FOS at <3, because for all i know he might have some awesome ability that could help out the town a lot, but we have no proof.

 

[ender]

maybe his ability is to see who is lying or something.

I think <3 is a townie right now because his plan seems like it has good intentions, which is what a mafia would do, BUT it is also supported by NO ONE else, which is not something mafia would do. they would try to get their plan supported by everyone, because if it isnt, and we really did lynch a <3 who was mafia it would be too much of a loss for the mafia. They only have a certain amount of people, so they cant sacrifice anyone (it seems), so I dont think <3 would make a plan that is opposed by everyone if he was mafia.

although he could be still, but my point is above

 

[Xsyven]

Yeah. Though <3 is by far the weirdest person in the game so far, I'm not voting for him quite yet. It seems like he's trying really hard to do something right... though he's doing it really weird.

 

[Flipstar]

maybe his ability is to see who is lying or something.

I think <3 is a townie right now because his plan seems like it has good intentions, which is what a mafia would do, BUT it is also supported by NO ONE else, which is not something mafia would do. they would try to get their plan supported by everyone, because if it isnt, and we really did lynch a <3 who was mafia it would be too much of a loss for the mafia. They only have a certain amount of people, so they cant sacrifice anyone (it seems), so I dont think <3 would make a plan that is opposed by everyone if he was mafia.

although he could be still, but my point is above

Another idea, the mafia may not be supporting him due to the townies lack of support; they may not be supporting him because it would make them seem odd since no one was agreeing with him in the first place. The mafia also don't want to give attention to themselves, and agreeing with <3 out of all the people who aren't would be suspicious. Unless i have forgotten and people are for his plan, i have to review. Can anyone confirm if someone has agreed with <3?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FOS: The initial group of three or four people who started asking questions about <3's role

I can't remember exactly who all of you are, seeing as how that was 2 pages ago, but I'll be going back soon and rereading so I can decide who to vote for.

Anyone who openly speculates about <3's role is officially suspicious to me, as is anyone who tries to phish for hints about it. Furthermore, anyone who is voting for <3 because he's asking people to say that they are town is also suspicious to me. I know that's a ton of people, but I'll be going back soon and picking out who I think is the most suspicious of that group.

Ok, I know this is Hellhouse mafia and all, but seriously, I can't even imagine the possibility of some role that benefits from people saying "I'm town." People say that ALL THE TIME in mafia games. Making a roles that gains significant power from that would be pretty out of control, ESPECIALLY in a thirty man game. That's just one role speculation I can't even comprehend.

As for why I find people who are pressuring/speculating about <3, my reasoning is this. <3 has an obvious role restriction, thus, he's natural topic of discussion relating to role speculation, and an easy target for phishers. Trying to figure out people's roles this early on (or pressuring them toward a potential name/roleclaim, which is what mindless bandwagoning, or simply voting does), is very dangerous in this game IMO. Based on what I believe the role of Kira to be, that is, a role-name based daykiller, putting ideas out there and discussion the potential candidates for <3's role only helps Kira figure out who he is, and as such, makes the possibility that he (Kira) will strike greater. If that happens, day end abruptly and we go straight to night with relatively little to consider, and come back in day two with perhaps a slew of night happenings that could really throw us off track. My feeling is, that some mafia/independents may be hoping for this to happen, since they thrive on confusion and lack of discussion.

I just wanted to repost this so i could get some more opinions on it. It didn't seem like anyone other than Jiano paid much attention to it. I'm going to an internship until around 5ish, and I'll probably post my decision on who I think the most suspicious of that initial group is.

So yeah, I just thought this post was some ignored food for thought.

 

[Mediocre]

However, i'm not pointing my FOS at <3, because for all i know he might have some awesome ability that could help out the town a lot, but we have no proof.

People keep saying this, and it doesn't really make sense.

Sure, it's possible anybody has a role that would benefit the town, but you can't just hold off voting for people because of that possibility. Everyone is equal in that regard, so it's not a reason to hold off voting for any one person.

I'm not voting for <3 because I still don't really think he's mafia. I just think that he's really suspicious.

I just wanted to repost this so i could get some more opinions on it. It didn't seem like anyone other than Jiano paid much attention to it. I'm going to an internship until around 5ish, and I'll probably post my decision on who I think the most suspicious of that initial group is.

So yeah, I just thought this post was some ignored food for thought.

I read it and I agree with you, but I really don't have much to add to what you've already said. It definitely makes those people more suspicious, but not enough that I'd even consider voting for any of them without a lot more evidence.

 

[Flipstar]

I'm not voting for <3 because I still don't really think he's mafia. I just think that he's really suspicious.

basically what i think in a nutshell

 

[Chill]

My only suspicions now are for people who pressure others to reveal their roles. Unfortunately we had a lot of that in trigun and not everyone who did was mafia. But the main offenders usually are.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Also, can you address a few things for me, <3?

1. What will we do if someone doesn't participate in this? Are we just going to vote a possibly valuable player just because they don't go along with this, possibly because they'd rather focus on some of the points we brought earlier or rather converse on the nature of the game? As tmw_redcell pointed out, who's to say that a townie may not be allowed to say what you have told us to say? I think it's irrational to write them off as mafia and be rid of them when they might be more valuable alive than dead.

As <3 said in response to TMW, as long as you say a statement that would force you to lie as a mafia <3 doesn't care it serves the same purpose he expressed in the beginning. And the other part of this question alone <3 can't really do anything. The plan was to see if there was a sole player who would out right refuse to take part. If there was it would be safe to assume this player was indeed mafia with a role that prevents them from saying other wise and as a whole we, the town, would vote this character off.

2. I want to see you post, "I am town" after you answer my questions.

I am town. And just so <3 can keep his third person stance, by "I" <3 means... "<3". Forcing <3 to say this however is flawed logic because in theory if I do have this ability it probably wouldn't affect myself.

That settles that then(for now anyway). Besides, it would be far too dangerous for you

<3 has a question, what would you do in a situation where 29 people said they were not mafia and one refused because it was a stupid thing to say?

First off, let me say that I highly doubt that we'll be lucky enough to be in that situation, but since you answered my questions, I'll do the same for you. Assuming that nothing important happened during the night, I would vote for them. Now, some may be thinking I'm a hypocrite because I myself have not joined in on your plan, but let me explain myself before you hit the quick reply button with astounding evidence. The main reason I'm against this idea is because it will take a lot of time for everyone to come in here and agree to it, when we could be discussing other ideas that have popped up throughout the thread which didn't garner much discussion because we're focused on this. If everybody had agreed to it, why shouldn't the last person?

I'm not suspicious of <3 being mafia either, just think he may have slipped up in what he was saying a few times.

FOS: The initial group of three or four people who started asking questions about <3's role

I can't remember exactly who all of you are, seeing as how that was 2 pages ago, but I'll be going back soon and rereading so I can decide who to vote for.

I don't see why you're so keen on voting for someone with such little evidence. Then again, you haven't presented any yet, so I'll wait for you to do so.

 

[ligolski]

yea i'll guess i'll be a replacement...i missed the sign up

 

[axemangx]

maybe his ability is to see who is lying or something.

I think <3 is a townie right now because his plan seems like it has good intentions, which is what a mafia would do, BUT it is also supported by NO ONE else, which is not something mafia would do. they would try to get their plan supported by everyone, because if it isnt, and we really did lynch a <3 who was mafia it would be too much of a loss for the mafia. They only have a certain amount of people, so they cant sacrifice anyone (it seems), so I dont think <3 would make a plan that is opposed by everyone if he was mafia.

although he could be still, but my point is above

Cant argue with this, but then again, why does <3 keep raising his point and up and up? So people possibally believe him more? :|


I think his role might be leading away suspicion..

 

[omegawhitemage]

Finally caught up, and the only thing that's stayed the same from the last time i checked is that <3 is still making me suspicious. Therefore: Vote: <3

 

[commonyoshi]

Let me make this clear. I will never, ever say the phrase <3 wants us to say. Maybe I really do have a role restriction, or maybe I have another reason for this. (I dont fear him having some hidden power) I just thought I would bring it up. Obviously, I wont devulge what my motives are. Discuss or no?

I see nothing suspicious about <3. He's... weird, sure, but it's not enough reason to vote on him at this moment when there's still so much that can be done.

 

[ender]

heres another idea that is crazy, but whatever just throwing it out.

if we kill <3 then we will be able to say THE CURSED PHRASE OH NOES again. and people who are suspicious of him will be assured that he is dead.

I myself dont think that he is mafia at this point, but i am trying hard not to suspect other people just because they suspect <3 because thats a good way to divide all the townies quickly. im just trying to think of what we can do in this situation.

 

[commonyoshi]

I dont understand your stance. Why wouldn't you want to "divide the townies"? We're already divided. The only group who is united is the mafia. The rest of us are floundering out here. So go ahead, shake stuff up, and cause some ruckus. Maybe, but not hopefully, we kill one or two town in the process, but it pays off in the long run.

 

[defjamffny16]

Let me make this clear. I will never, ever say the phrase <3 wants us to say. Maybe I really do have a role restriction, or maybe I have another reason for this. (I dont fear him having some hidden power) I just thought I would bring it up. Obviously, I wont devulge what my motives are. Discuss or no?

Umm yeah, let's discuss! This post was a little cryptic, and came across as a little suspicious to me.

Perhaps <3 doesn't even have a role-restriction....perhaps he's just talking in the third person to confuse us? I don't know, and there's really nothing new to say. I'm highly suspicious of <3 and something doesn't feel on the up-and-up to me, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Pythag]

I'd be wary of what's said no matter what, simply because of the fact that there is a Kira player. The more that person knows, the better chance he probably has of someone. I realize that kira needs a name and a face, but...how much does this game have to be true to the show? I'm gonna decline to reveal anything right now, not because <3 is mafia, but because everyone will have an opportunity to use it against me.

 

[ender]

wait, pythag so you are saying you're kira??

when i first heard of a kira char i just figured they would be an independant, and didnt remember the name thing, so we dont know for sure if the name is necessary. also if he lives long enough maybe he will get some shingami eyes or whatever.

commonyoshi, i just meant if i bring up how jiano (at least once that i remember) and omegawhitemage twice has brought up or voted against <3. Also both have only really posted about that stuff, not really involved in the convo or saying much besides repeating "ya like others, im suspicious" so I DONT want to sacrifice <3 but unless something else comes up he seems like someone lots of people are suspicious of.

the main reason I doubt <3 is mafia is because his plan has been seen as ******** and no one backed him up, but why would the mafia even risk one person? they have so few compared to the townies that its not a good idea. but if many people DO think <3 is mafia there is one way to tell....

 

[defjamffny16]

I'm gonna decline to reveal anything right now, not because <3 is mafia, but because everyone will have an opportunity to use it against me.

Wait, what are you saying here? That you knnow <3's alignment? And that you have information but don't wanna reveal it?? Please clarify.

 

[defjamffny16]

*know

wait, pythag so you are saying you're kira??

when i first heard of a kira char i just figured they would be an independant, and didnt remember the name thing, so we dont know for sure if the name is necessary. also if he lives long enough maybe he will get some shingami eyes or whatever.

What are shingami eyes??

 

[Pythag]

No, no, no, no.
I'm not saying anything regarding myself, because of the fact that kira is out there. In the show, kira needs a name and a face to kill. I'm not sure how that is transferred over in this game, but I'm just going to be overly cautious as to what I choose to reveal, just in case it turns out to be different in this game.
I actually feel that <3 is town, but even with those good intentions, I'm not going to reveal anything because of the fact that it could potentially be used against me by kira or mafia or whatever.
I know no actual facts about <3 though.

 

[Pythag]

if kira gains the eyes than that means he can look at anyone and see their name and then kill him/her.

 

[ender]

yeah, I know what you mean. Dont reveal any information unless you need to, or you feel it will help other people gain information.

 

[defjamffny16]

Oh ok, I totally had misread your post Pythag, my bad!!

And about the eyes...that's a little freaky. You mentioned Kira gains them, any idea how that would work in correlation to the game? How does it happen in the show?

 

[Eor]

I'm going to do a votecount sometime tomororw, I have a major economic to study for right now. Just a heads up, since some of you probably care how close people are to being lynched and stuff

 

[defjamffny16]

Yeah, I was kinda wondering where we were with the <3 thing. And if he does turn out to be town by some chance, then we'll have the list of people who voted for him to work off of. Sure, most would probably be townies but there has to be a Mafiat bandwagon in there SOMEWHERE.

This is all speculation in case he turns out to be town, I'm not saying he is town. I am still thinking Mafia!!

 

[ender]

i dont think its very practical to keep applying the kira thing, i was just speculating when i brought up the shingami eyes.

DEATHNOTE MANGA SPOILERS: in the manga he doesnt get them he makes his girlfriend get them. she makes a pact with a deathgod.

when the votecount comes tomorrow we will see who has voted for <3. We could now, but thats a lot of pages to root through.

 

[spam_master]

Everyone change your avatar

Put on a new avatar as a "mask". Let's see if whoever is kira can remember our "faces" from day one in the late game.

 

[defjamffny16]

Ummm....no.