Smudge
Smash Lord
Majoy super editing for failing
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Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)
- Thread starter Gates
- Start date
You post this in the matchup thread?
Smudge
Smash Lord
Woops, thought it was the general discussion, my bad.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Smudge,
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Erased and edited: We need to make a separate thread for gimping discussion on certain characters besides WoP'ing them. Anyone else in for the idea?
haloman800
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2008
- Messages
- 100
Why is Snake listed as 50/50? On the Snake boards it's 35/65 in our favor and He is so easy to gimp with pummel breaks...
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Gates, can we end the Pikachu rediscussion and move to Meta Knight? Everyone just thinks the D3 v Pikachu matchup is straight-up gay.
haloman800
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2008
- Messages
- 100
Lol yeah, But does that mean Dedede is now not considered Snakes worst matchup?
Edit: Also, what made everyone change their minds to it being 50/50? You all obviously know more than me, I'm just wondering.
Edit: Also, what made everyone change their minds to it being 50/50? You all obviously know more than me, I'm just wondering.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Because the Snake's learned how to play the matchup and avoid getting gimped.It means nothing really.
We have two new ways to gimp snake. Doesn't this help the matchup? I don't think the number should change until we get some hard proof way to show that D3 beats snake again.
We have two new ways to gimp snake. Doesn't this help the matchup? I don't think the number should change until we get some hard proof way to show that D3 beats snake again.
haloman800
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2008
- Messages
- 100
Okay Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to check frequently for any updates.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Stop by anytime.
No, Dedede is no longer Snake's worst matchup. That would probably be Olimar (or maybe ROB, idk much about Snake's matchups).
And it's 50:50 because Snake can outcamp us very well and also get away from us well. He can deal a ton of damage with his tilts and the range is such that if he spaces it perfectly you won't be able to shieldgrab him. He can kill us at low percents while it takes longer for us to kill him than any other character (unless you gimp him but most good Snakes don't fall for that anyway). Snake can get Dedede offstage easily and while he's offstage he'll make Dedede take a ton of damage before Dedede can get back on the grouns and restabilize. Dedede still ***** Snakes who don't know how to play the matchup, but good Snakes can pull anything out of their ***.
I really don't want to because:
1. It hasn't been a week yet.
2. All people have done is complain about the matchup instead of actually giving advice that will help in the matchup.
3. I've talked about MK twice in this thread, another time in the MK matchup thread, our discussions about the low-tier characters almost always got sidetracked into discussions about MK or other bad matchups, and Atomsk wrote a blog post on AiB about how to beat him. HOW ARE PEOPLE STILL NOT WINNING THIS MATCHUP!?
Anyway, I've found that Pikachu's techroll is so small that not only is he easy to techchase but if he techs in place you can hit him with an Fsmash. Very risky though.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Toon Links are rediscussing the King dedede matchup at our boards. Please contribute. Heres the thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241768 I hope to see rated and some more DDDs contribute their opinion on the matchup.
OK guys, nobody's discussing Pikachu anymore so I guess I'll close the discussion on that and make my big announcement.
As some of you might remember, I said I had something in mind for the rediscussions of MK, Falco, and Diddy, who were all scheduled to be next. That something is separate discussion threads for each of those characters. I know other boards have done this too but I feel that in our case it will be able to address matchups that people are having a consistently hard time with while not ignoring other matchups being discussed in this thread.
Now you may be wondering how I decide which characters have their matchups exported. First I plan to do all of Dedede's bad matchups (read: 60:40 or lower), then all the popular (ie. consistently high placing) characters to make sure that matchups of common characters who we don't have bad matchups against (Snake, Marth, etc.) have their own threads. Apart from that, export threads will be created according to how many people want them created. It doesn't need to be dependent on how soon it's created since I'll make them in batches of 4 so as not to clog the front page. I also don't want to create a new thread if only one person wants the matchup discussed, so for now I'll say that 3 people have to recommend a matchup for discussion in order for it to get its own thread.
Here is the tentative schedule for matchup exports:
Batch 1 - 7/19/09
Metaknight - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241821
Falco - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241822
Diddy Kong - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241823
Ice Climbers - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241827
Batch 2 - 7/26/09
Pikachu - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242610
Mr. Game & Watch - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242612
Olimar - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242613
Kirby - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242614
Batch 3 - 8/2/09
Zelda/Sheik - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243418
Snake - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243419
Marth - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243421
Wario - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243425
Any other batches will contain requested exports.
As for this current thread, you may discuss any matchup that hasn't been exported yet. I'm only planning on exporting about 20 characters max (Zelda and Sheik count as 1 character though) so there should still be plenty left to talk about.
As some of you might remember, I said I had something in mind for the rediscussions of MK, Falco, and Diddy, who were all scheduled to be next. That something is separate discussion threads for each of those characters. I know other boards have done this too but I feel that in our case it will be able to address matchups that people are having a consistently hard time with while not ignoring other matchups being discussed in this thread.
Now you may be wondering how I decide which characters have their matchups exported. First I plan to do all of Dedede's bad matchups (read: 60:40 or lower), then all the popular (ie. consistently high placing) characters to make sure that matchups of common characters who we don't have bad matchups against (Snake, Marth, etc.) have their own threads. Apart from that, export threads will be created according to how many people want them created. It doesn't need to be dependent on how soon it's created since I'll make them in batches of 4 so as not to clog the front page. I also don't want to create a new thread if only one person wants the matchup discussed, so for now I'll say that 3 people have to recommend a matchup for discussion in order for it to get its own thread.
Here is the tentative schedule for matchup exports:
Batch 1 - 7/19/09
Metaknight - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241821
Falco - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241822
Diddy Kong - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241823
Ice Climbers - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241827
Batch 2 - 7/26/09
Pikachu - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242610
Mr. Game & Watch - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242612
Olimar - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242613
Kirby - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242614
Batch 3 - 8/2/09
Zelda/Sheik - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243418
Snake - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243419
Marth - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243421
Wario - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243425
Any other batches will contain requested exports.
As for this current thread, you may discuss any matchup that hasn't been exported yet. I'm only planning on exporting about 20 characters max (Zelda and Sheik count as 1 character though) so there should still be plenty left to talk about.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Well that sure is nice.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I noticed the GnW one. o.O What other ones are they?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7892089&postcount=1532
It's like literally 3 posts above yours in this thread.
lol
It's like literally 3 posts above yours in this thread.
lol
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Leave Wario outta the third batch of cookie exports. He's too easy for me now. Leave Sheik out too if enough people support me.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
lol wario is not easy if they camp you
wait until you play reflex and tell me wario's easy hehe
wait until you play reflex and tell me wario's easy hehe
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Reflex doesn't main Wario, so it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Let's see if Serin really does got some things up his sleeve Albino.
Also, Fiction said that he can't judge Reflex's Wario, he called it unconventional. I've never seen his wario, so I don't know, but I imagine that means not camper.
He's the most unconventional D3 I've yet to see. Which is just what we need. Serin, make sure to get some matches recorded of you.
Also, from what I get from the matchup discussion so far: GnW, not nearly as hard as we thought, Kirby, not nearly as hard as we thought, MK, he keeps getting gayer.
Also, Fiction said that he can't judge Reflex's Wario, he called it unconventional. I've never seen his wario, so I don't know, but I imagine that means not camper.
He's the most unconventional D3 I've yet to see. Which is just what we need. Serin, make sure to get some matches recorded of you.
Also, from what I get from the matchup discussion so far: GnW, not nearly as hard as we thought, Kirby, not nearly as hard as we thought, MK, he keeps getting gayer.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
reflex co mains wario. I guess we'll just have to see crashic but agreed senin's d3 is very odd *in a good way ;B*. Reflex is just an odd player he's really agressive at all the right times so he doesn't really have to camp.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
As far as I'm concerned about Wario, his camp is harder to punish on wifi because of delay, but as far as grabbing Wario offline, it shouldn't be too hard if I play mah cards right.
Oh, and we are trying to see if we can set up a livestream CRASHiC. If we do, I'll make sure to get some matches of me recorded.
Oh, and we are trying to see if we can set up a livestream CRASHiC. If we do, I'll make sure to get some matches of me recorded.
Jupz
Smash Master
Ok, are you going to write up summaries for the ones we've finished, like Pikachu?
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Give us a Marf thread. If MK gets banned (he wont), Marth will be on the rise by 3 spots at the most. We need to start preparing now.
There is a Marth thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243421
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243421
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Oh there is? Needs more hype then... >.>
Jupz
Smash Master
I'll write up a massive MK summary that you can stick in the front post tomorrow if you want 
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
TBH, we run into SOOOOO many MKs nowadays that I doubt we need to have a massive summary. Just dtilt through nadowhores and utilt to kill at 96% 
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Meta Knight is the only character I actually lose to, he's so broken, beyond a player's normal skill.
A great example: I challenged a 1453 points guy on All is Brawl and he surprised me with Falco on the first round...and we began on Final Destination. I STILL owned his Falco on the best stage for that matchup for Falco, and he decides to go Meta Knight and he can still beat him with him, he won boths rounds after that. The knight just completely defies player skill...especially when the player still can't beat me with a horrible matchup for King Dedede on his best stage for King Dedede. Meta Knight should be banned... Even if I know that matchup like the back of my hand, Meta Knights can still win. No point in myself writing anything at all for him.
A great example: I challenged a 1453 points guy on All is Brawl and he surprised me with Falco on the first round...and we began on Final Destination. I STILL owned his Falco on the best stage for that matchup for Falco, and he decides to go Meta Knight and he can still beat him with him, he won boths rounds after that. The knight just completely defies player skill...especially when the player still can't beat me with a horrible matchup for King Dedede on his best stage for King Dedede. Meta Knight should be banned... Even if I know that matchup like the back of my hand, Meta Knights can still win. No point in myself writing anything at all for him.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
There really isn't. It's just knowing how to avoid spam...
T3h Albino
Smash Master
dtilt only beats grounded nado. Anybody who ground nado's against d3 should get hit with a book.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
smashboards is ******** for making me double post like that <____<
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
Diddy boards are discussing you guys in our match-up thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244422
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244422
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
I posted there.
CO18
Smash Hero
I havent looked at this in awhile O_O. Umm I only think ICs is 6:4, nvm just on neutrals which I think its 6:4 but you basically have a HIGH chance of winning on your CP so you just have to win one neutral and its not that bad IMO. I believe GaW is dead even.
-.- There is no way kirby is worse than MK lol, I strongly belive ddd vs mk is 6:4 once they know the matchup(seibrik is really the only one, then m2k of course is just m2k). Kirby can literally do 0 things to DDD better than MK can, only thing possible is KILLING but Kirbys kill moves are so predictable and easily avoidable in comparison to mk because he cant force you into bad positions like MK can. He literally has WAYY less appraoches vs d3, cant space as well as mk cant Punish YOU for trying to punish his spacing as easily, cant gimp nearly as well, recovery is much more punishable then mks and hes slower.. He literally does everything worse than mk in this matchup. I feel kirby vs DDD is 50:50 as well.
Then also DDD wario is definitley in d3s adv. 6:4 IMO now. We ALL have played the matchup terribly including me/atomsk/lain etc. Seibrik has been the only one that knows the mathcup well IMO and I finally really learned it. D3 should Rarely ever full hop vs wario. Once you get a lead Just spam SH bairs and from there you can basically react/punish anything wario can do. He cant fair inbetween ur bairs anymore like he can if u full hop them he cant dair you as your descending anymore because you can just react in shield, he can PERFECTLY time a bite but it very hard to do and more times then not youll end up bairing plus if you react in time you can just pivot grab the bite. It locks down alot his options. Could be 55:45 just becase Wario can still camp you if he has the lead and certain stages are gay but I dunno.
Zelda cant really do much to DDD -.- Shieks definitley worse beside the killing but DDD can easily outspace zelda's kill moves lol. I think its 50:50 shiek vs d3 and 6:4 D3 vs Zelda.
Then I also believe Snake is at least 55:45 d3s adv. Its hard to believe otherwise personally considering no snake can really beat me or seibrik and its not like were esentially better than all of them, its just if you know the matchup D3 can literally grab snake out of like all of his options and once snake gets grabbed hes taking at least 16% from back throw most of the time a chaingrab into gimping position.
Rest I think is good right now.
-.- There is no way kirby is worse than MK lol, I strongly belive ddd vs mk is 6:4 once they know the matchup(seibrik is really the only one, then m2k of course is just m2k). Kirby can literally do 0 things to DDD better than MK can, only thing possible is KILLING but Kirbys kill moves are so predictable and easily avoidable in comparison to mk because he cant force you into bad positions like MK can. He literally has WAYY less appraoches vs d3, cant space as well as mk cant Punish YOU for trying to punish his spacing as easily, cant gimp nearly as well, recovery is much more punishable then mks and hes slower.. He literally does everything worse than mk in this matchup. I feel kirby vs DDD is 50:50 as well.
Then also DDD wario is definitley in d3s adv. 6:4 IMO now. We ALL have played the matchup terribly including me/atomsk/lain etc. Seibrik has been the only one that knows the mathcup well IMO and I finally really learned it. D3 should Rarely ever full hop vs wario. Once you get a lead Just spam SH bairs and from there you can basically react/punish anything wario can do. He cant fair inbetween ur bairs anymore like he can if u full hop them he cant dair you as your descending anymore because you can just react in shield, he can PERFECTLY time a bite but it very hard to do and more times then not youll end up bairing plus if you react in time you can just pivot grab the bite. It locks down alot his options. Could be 55:45 just becase Wario can still camp you if he has the lead and certain stages are gay but I dunno.
Zelda cant really do much to DDD -.- Shieks definitley worse beside the killing but DDD can easily outspace zelda's kill moves lol. I think its 50:50 shiek vs d3 and 6:4 D3 vs Zelda.
Then I also believe Snake is at least 55:45 d3s adv. Its hard to believe otherwise personally considering no snake can really beat me or seibrik and its not like were esentially better than all of them, its just if you know the matchup D3 can literally grab snake out of like all of his options and once snake gets grabbed hes taking at least 16% from back throw most of the time a chaingrab into gimping position.
Rest I think is good right now.