Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I'd much rather wait to see him claim, because there is a chance that is claim could be provable/useful (Like a vig role), and it would be a shame to see it go to waste.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Because his claim will be useless and not prevent his lynch in the first place.

No claim is useless. There's potential to gleam insight into scum plans or he could flip town, in which case we have a better idea of the set-up because he wasn't lying. You never go without a claim if avoidable.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Eh.

I'm the water element. Every Night, I can cast a "water bubble" around a target of my choosing, which slows down any projectiles (like bullets) for a Night. I protected AM last Night.

Preemptive answer to a question I'm sure that I'm going to be asked:

"That a doctor. Why didn't you CC PJB yesturDay?"

Because I can't outguess the mod. If this wasn't a non vanilla game I much more likely have CC someone else claiming a protect, but since I have only a bit of an idea what Gova's set up is, I decided that CC PJB would have been WIFOM.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Badwolf I saw you viewing.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Also Swords. Did you get to analyzing RR/Kantrip yet? You said you were going to do that.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yeah I'm not completely finished but they're both still town.

The short story of it is that they're both posting genuine content, and they're interactions with PJB don't seem scripted.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

And what of Ryu's gambit?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Eh.

I'm the water element. Every Night, I can cast a "water bubble" around a target of my choosing, which slows down any projectiles (like bullets) for a Night. I protected AM last Night.

Preemptive answer to a question I'm sure that I'm going to be asked:

"That a doctor. Why didn't you CC PJB yesturDay?"

Because I can't outguess the mod. If this wasn't a non vanilla game I much more likely have CC someone else claiming a protect, but since I have only a bit of an idea what Gova's set up is, I decided that CC PJB would have been WIFOM.

Explain your waffling on Badwolf.

Dislike gheb's post on claims.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I mean PJB.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Explain your waffling on Badwolf.

Dislike gheb's post on claims.

I mean PJB.

I already did.

Listen, most of yesturDay I defended PJB but on occasion I attacked him as well. The reason I attacked him when I did was because I DID find things he did scummy and/or anti-town, but in the end I still had him as a town read. I'm too sure how many people saw this yesturDay but I made this big reads post after Gova already posted the flip (Gova ninja'd me) where I said PJB was a town lean. By asking why I "waffled" you're making it sound like I was going back and forth between having him as scum/having him as town, when the reality of the situation is that I always had him as town while acknowledging some of the scummy things he did.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't give a **** how you feel about my attitude towards claims, Ryu.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

And this is exactly the reason I wanted a claim.

I can confirm (unless there is another water element that wants to counterclaim him and should if they exist) that I was targeted with a protective role in the vein of what he has claimed. I can also confirm that there is another protective role in this game. These two statements I make with exceeding confidence in their accuracy.

Now, I ask you Foxy, what should we do with the information I have provided.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I'm too sure how many people saw this yesturDay . . .

EDWOP: Should be "I'm not too sure . . . "

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I don't give a **** how you feel about my attitude towards claims, Ryu.

I would begin giving one because you are grating on my nerves.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

At what point? most of the time I was trying to get everyone to post something on the topic of Foxy to see what it related to him and if I thought Foxy was town or not. Then if so what that meant for others and where I can look.

Why do you think I was trying to get everyone to post.

The bolded is exactly why you're steering conversation away from Swords. You were so caught up in your gambit that you were driving the thread continually away from any of the push away from him. Foxy was pushing in that direction from the start of the phase but your gambit essentially took time away from that push regardless, when such a push would've allowed us to get a solid read on Foxy (and also Swords) anyway.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't give a **** how you feel about my attitude towards my attitude, AM.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And this is exactly the reason I wanted a claim.

I can confirm (unless there is another water element that wants to counterclaim him and should if they exist) that I was targeted with a protective role in the vein of what he has claimed. I can also confirm that there is another protective role in this game. These two statements I make with exceeding confidence in their accuracy.

Now, I ask you Foxy, what should we do with the information I have provided.

Worthless. His claim doesn't tell us anything about his alignment. PJB's claim was also accurate and it didn't mean ****. Stop being whack, start hunting scum.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I don't give a **** how you feel about my attitude towards my attitude, AM.

Foxy, what do you think of this man?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Worthless. His claim doesn't tell us anything about his alignment. PJB's claim was also accurate and it didn't mean ****. Stop being whack, start hunting scum.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

How do you know PJB's claim was accurate...........?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I just remembered I owe Ryker a skin for GS mafia, welp.

Apparently Brolaf didn't count.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

PJB flipped what he claimed to be. Roles in this game are not indicative of alignment.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

=/ =/ =/ =/

So Gheb you think it's a possibility that I protected AM as scum?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

PJB flipped what he claimed to be. Roles in this game are not indicative of alignment.

No. He didn't.

Really, I'm back at L-1? Is this **** really going to happen? Looks like I'm claiming, though I really wanted to avoid this...

I'm the Vacuum Element. My ability is called Cold of Space. It allows me to target somebody, and cause all Night actions taken against that person to get sucked out into the vacuum of space, and fail. This includes night kills.

He claimed town vacuum and he flipped mafia void. How would you know if he is what he said and it's not some protective safe claim? If he IS what he said, why would you still want to lynch protective claiming Swords?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

=/ =/ =/ =/

So Gheb you think it's a possibility that I protected AM as scum?

1.) Yes.
2.) I'm not convinced you've told us everything about your role yet.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Who was?

Badwolf was the one with the idgaf vote.

My other head has a tendency to hate BadWolf but I also had issues with his attitude. That said, I've never played a game with him to completion and his IDGaF attitude was problematic to me.

Also, that post did come with a disclaimer on it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No. He didn't.

[...]

He claimed town vacuum and he flipped mafia void. How would you know if he is what he said and it's not some protective safe claim? If he IS what he said, why would you still want to lynch protective claiming Swords?

Different [less sinister] name for what is effectively the same thing.
I would still lynch Sworddancer because he has been SCUMMY and he has EXTREMELY SCUMMY CONNECTIONS and therefore is a SCUMMY SLOT. His claim doesn't suddenly make his scummy play go away, it just makes town second-guess themselves over something that has little to no bearing on alignment.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lynching JTB toDay is the only alternative solution to lynching Sworddancer toDay for me. MAYBE Hando's replacement depending on how he makes his entrance.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You still want Gheb over Sword?

At that point, I wanted Swords to have time to read but your posts on why Swords was a good lynch, as were Foxy's, were honestly good enough to convince me for it. I think the only thing my slot disagreed with in regards to Foxy was that Foxy was essentially fishing for it early and that can have negative connotations to it, but I think it was so subtle that it doesn't really matter at the moment.

I still don't like Gheb though. His posts today, outside of a few, were mildly noncommittal and he's posted such little content despite being a miser for most of the game now that I'm surprised people aren't looking at him more. The fact that he started blindly defending PJB midway through the game without any sort of a sensible reason for it (outside of following Swissdumb) makes me question him all the more.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

His claim has CONFIRMATION.

You still have side-stepped the bulk of my accusation veiled as a question. How do you know that the mafiat claimed the role he actually had and not a safeclaim and if you truly do know, then why do you want to lynch protective claiming Sworddancer?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Different [less sinister] name for what is effectively the same thing.
I would still lynch Sworddancer because he has been SCUMMY and he has EXTREMELY SCUMMY CONNECTIONS and therefore is a SCUMMY SLOT. His claim doesn't suddenly make his scummy play go away, it just makes town second-guess themselves over something that has little to no bearing on alignment.

You're hilarious.

Nothing about PJB's role suggested he was town.Show me where Swords' role is exactly the same. We lynched PJB regardless of his role because PJB's role was null and had drawbacks for any alignments.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Your weakness right now is you are letting town stupidity blind you.

Ruy is being dumb toDay, Badwolf is being dumb toDay, Handorin I'm not sure, there's a bunch of inactives. But you can't let dumbness cloud your vision.

AM still town, this lines up perfectly with a weakness he's cited in the past of weaker players being crapshoot reads for him.

Fair enough, I'll just handle these slots then.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

That gambit was dumb and you know it. It's pretty bad when everyone recognizes it is one (except for me because I'm bad and haven't played in ages).

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Alright guys, sorry for not being able to do stuff (including go more in depth about my reads) over the weekend

Foxy is town because almost everything he's done here has screamed of the last couple of times I've played with Ran, where he was town. He was being mostly uncompromising wrt PJB, which reminds me of how I've seen him take a stance and just simply not let go, like what he did here with defending PJB.

I originally thought that JTB's first post was scummy because I found it suspicious that he immediately decided to vote Foxy and RR gambited, making it look like he was trying to get on a possible mislynch. After som rereading, though, it seems as though JTB had suspected foxy, so I can see him making that jump.

Gheb is town because I can see where he's coming at and his defense especially of PJB. Some of his defense points are so bizarre that I find it hard to believe he was trying to defend his partner.

And after deciding to take a better look at SD, I can see why people are thinking that he's scum. His soft-defending, flippity-floppity interactions with PJB are disgusting, his attack on gheb his half-***** (Indirect defense? really now).

However, I still don't think that Legolas mentioning Ff is enough to completely excuse him. FF has still played awfully and I'm perfectly fine with seeing him go.

Also AM, trying to get all of the inactives to comment on Swords before his lynch is just going to be a waste of time. Also, nothing I've seen of RR's play today is any different from his normal town play, IMO.

Dark Horse, throw a vote down!

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Alright AM, we have a confirmation for Sword's role. How is that indicative of his alignment?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

His claim has CONFIRMATION.

You still have side-stepped the bulk of my accusation veiled as a question. How do you know that the mafiat claimed the role he actually had and not a safeclaim and if you truly do know, then why do you want to lynch protective claiming Sworddancer?

The ability has confirmation, the alignment does not.

PJB claimed TOWN VACUUM. He was Mafia Void. Vacuum is a neutral term as opposed to the clear negative connotation of Void but Vacuum and Void are the same thing. They are the same thing and do exactly what PJB claimed to be able to do. Gova gave PJB an ability that could be on either side and gave him the fake name "town vacuum" because it's the same thing as Void - it just sounds nicer. That way PJB could claim to be exactly what he was and be able to prove his ability. That's not hard to figure out. Claims don't mean ****. Abilities being "confirmable" doesn't mean **** because they have nothing to do with alignment.

Look at your own role - does your ability alone indicate alignment? Mine doesn't and I know at least one other player whose ability doesn't either.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Alright AM, we have a confirmation for Sword's role. How is that indicative of his alignment?

Do your own homework. I want to see your conclusions, not whatever I spoon feed you.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

The ability has confirmation, the alignment does not.

PJB claimed TOWN VACUUM. He was Mafia Void. Vacuum is a neutral term as opposed to the clear negative connotation of Void but Vacuum and Void are the same thing. They are the same thing and do exactly what PJB claimed to be able to do. Gova gave PJB an ability that could be on either side and gave him the fake name "town vacuum" because it's the same thing as Void - it just sounds nicer. That way PJB could claim to be exactly what he was and be able to prove his ability. That's not hard to figure out. Claims don't mean ****. Abilities being "confirmable" doesn't mean **** because they have nothing to do with alignment.

Look at your own role - does your ability alone indicate alignment? Mine doesn't and I know at least one other player whose ability doesn't either.

How. Do. You. Know. He. Does. Not. Have. A. Safe. Claim.

Stop side-stepping the issue. Either admit that you do not know or explain how you do.

I think you slipped. I know Gova called Raz dumb after he ran GS Mafia without giving the scum team safeclaims. I would definitely assume that scum have safeclaims of some kind.

How. Do. You. Know.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

I just think Gheb's being really stubborn. I'm in the process of re-reading and I say what we DO do, is think about it and think of another possible direction. I think you may even guess where I may be heading. Once I post what I'm thinking, we can discuss and decide from there.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Also, I can tell you there is definitely at least one role who's ability is all but completely town oriented.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

I still don't like Gheb though. His posts today, outside of a few, were mildly noncommittal and he's posted such little content despite being a miser for most of the game now that I'm surprised people aren't looking at him more. The fact that he started blindly defending PJB midway through the game without any sort of a sensible reason for it (outside of following Swissdumb) makes me question him all the more.

This makes me wonder though. You didn't have a problem with Gheb before. Why now?