Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[Aggressive Mediation]

AM thoughts on the claim?

Getting to it. Page 11 finally gave me stuff to sink my teeth into.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

First of all I would just like to say that the fact that you can't check a person's individual posts is so amazingly annoying

Upon a reread, the more and more I dislike Hando. His incredibly wishy-washy stance on PJB looks bad on reread. Trying to ask people who their third scum mates is this early game comes as loaded, and the fact that he apparently had three scum by page 5 just comes off as him being rushed.


Put to be honest, I'm going to Vote: PJB. In addition to his play being spotty, there's also the fact that just about every player has commented on him, and some players have had some interesting actions with him (Gheb, Hando). His flip gives a lot of information to work with.

Dark Horse, throw a v-

Oh, you got it, it was sitting in the middle of text.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm not going to explain the obvious.

If someone's asking you, it's not very obvious? Being obtuse about it and not allowing us to get in your head and see what you're doing isn't helpful either.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You know I'd be much more inclined to buy it if that didn't came from the second most inactive slot in the game.

Fine. Let vigbait be vigbait. There's no sense blowing an entire wagon on a policy lynch.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

mmk.

Unvote

Thoughts on this?

It smells like a flawed doctor.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

^ was directed to Gheb

Like, the whole reason I was trying to play careful was because I didn't want to get killed by the town, and now I'm gonna get killed by the mafia. It's pretty frustrating, cuz the only way I live is if the mafia are just confident they know who I'm gonna protect. Even then, my days are numbered, and no amount of walking the suspicion line is gonna keep me alive, cuz I'm claimed now.

Unvote

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Going to talk with my other head and then come back.

 

[Kantrip]

Ughhh my emotions are being appealed to, Joker's begrudging apathy is starting to remind me of myself when I'm fed up with similar treatment.

Really like AM's analysis and then unvoting to reassess even after all that work. Glad they're town. S&C I'm not sure about.

@AM: Talk to me about S&C's threat on Gheb that I commented on earlier. I get really bad feelings about it, what do you think?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So why are you looking at Badwolf (inactive) instead of JTB (inactive and a counterargument to the PJB wagon)?

Actually, with Badwolf and Frozen kinda appearing to make a comeback JTB should be next against the wall. Point taken though.

Unvote Vote JTB

 

[Gova]

@Gova: Tomarrow is Memorial day, can we have a 1 day extension for that?

I've decided that I'll extend the deadline to Wednesday, May 29th since that is the day I get back from vacation and for my lax modding, which isn't fair to the players.

1. Handorin ()
2. BadWolf28738 (Gheb)
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
5. Gheb_01 ()
6. JTB ()
7. frozenflame751 ()
8. Potassium (Foxy, PBJ)
9. Legolas(SC)
10. Red Ruy ()
11. PrivateJoker-Brown (K, JTB, Handorin, AM, RR, DH)
12. Foxy the Silver Fox ()
13. Scylla & Charybdis ()

Not voting: BW, FF, Legolas

With 13 playing it takes 7 lynch!

Deadline is Wednesday, May 29th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Gheb how am I a strong town read of yours ?

What are you even on o-o ?

Vote : Wulf.

Am ham-slamming Joker reads as strange, the noose is already set, and yet he's appealing to someone unliable to change his mind as he's made clear as day. I wouldn't want to throw bussing out the window but that ****s a little too strong for my liking, Joker could have been dropped and no one would look two ways about it.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Also, the people saying Joker's lynch is the right one because it gives the most info, are bad an should feel bad.

That's the weakest justification to carry a lynch through you can pull from the grotto's of inactivity.

What has Dark Horse done to not be a topic of discussion ?

 

[Gova]

JTB has been prodded.

 

[JTB]

unvote

ill catch up during memorial day

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Also, the people saying Joker's lynch is the right one because it gives the most info, are bad an should feel bad.

That's the weakest justification to carry a lynch through you can pull from the grotto's of inactivity.

What has Dark Horse done to not be a topic of discussion ?

I mean, I was lynching him because he's honest to gog scum but his self-serving play makes sense at the moment. Other head is always AFK though so I can't talk to him. I think he went on a vacation this weekend. GG.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

unvote

ill catch up during memorial day

Providing a better alternative doesn't show up, I propose we lynch him if he doesn't catch up during Memorial Day.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Alright Swiss, you wanna know why I think this kid is scum? It's simple: when pressured and immediately pushed into the spotlight, he refused to make a connection to anyone, specifically to stronger players at all, threw one of the grodiest OMGUS votes I've seen that was completely misguided, and then when things finally settled down, he made a bunch of half-*****, noncommital reads.

I mean, that whole wagon started by Kantrip trying to make a connection to the kid only for him to turn it down. PJB immediately flipped out, people piled on, and his overreactions got incredible. His stated reasons for not sheeping you, besides the obvious one of "it would be supporting his own wagon," was that if you were lynched and flipped scum, he would immediately be lynched for sheeping you.

I can go back and grab his exact quote, if you want.

That's grody as ****. It's an overreaction, is defensive as hell, and shows that he has no interest in making any connections with you for fear of his own hide. He's not willing to cooperate. When did all of this become townie (bad townie but townie nonetheless) play? Like, you keep saying "he's not scum" but I don't see where or how. He's dumb as **** for not understanding why his wagon even existed but that's irrelevant to what he did above. You're asking town to give their reasons as to why he's scum. When do we get to ask you why you think he's town? You act like you're in charge of this game but for all your bravado, you've given us so little to work with. I want to know why you think he's town. Show me you're reasoning, stop asking everyone else for theirs.

Firstly, swiss doesn't have an opinion on PBJ, that's why he's soliciting opinions. I do.

Secondly, there's no one "town play", townies play a lot of different ways, a lot of them badly. Saying that somebody is town or scum based on general scumtells or towntells is rarely accurate because a lot of town play poorly and strong scum know how to avoid a lot of the basic traps. One of the most common mistakes made here is lynching noobtown for the same scumtell they make every goddamn game. They're weak therefore easy targets and a lot of even the influential players don't know better.


So let's talk about PJB and why he's town.

In his games as town he has a tendancy to come off as extremely defensive even when under light pressure and his response is discombobulated, in this game it's the same.

Compare it to Persona 4 mafia, comes under heavy pressure and calmly talks it down, I mean look at d3 (and RR will probably remember that, you won't cause you replaced out). He was defensive later on but it was focused defense, but ultimately he ended up getting quicklynched before he could respond due to an OS wall, his play was nothing like the spastic play here.

And you know what, it's more normal then you'd think for people to have these sorts of patterns, I've picked out kantrip in multiple games for exactly this sort of thing, his townplay is generally extremely spastic and paranoid, his scumplay is a lot more controlled.

The reason some people display this opposite of expected breakdown of behaviors is simple, a lot of the more analytical but inexperienced players feel more comfortable when have information, when they have no idea what's going on and no understanding of how to analyze information, so they have a tendency to become paranoid. When they're mafia on the other hand, they don't have to be concerned about the possibility that everyone has a hidden scum motivation, they're primarily trying to survive and protect their faction/themselves. Heck, I was like this, compare my FF6 play to my LOTR mafia play and you'd see a similarly striking divide.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Speaking of which, I gave reasons why he's town as a response to you a while back ryker.

TL;DR: PJB is town cause his playstyle is exactly like his towngames and nearly opposite to his scumgame.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Same goes to you, Swiss. I'm wondering what it is that you still want me to respond to. You seem to imply that I am hesitating on a response but I think I've covered everything that has been directed towards me.

Why you think PJB is town. I think he placed you on the priority list cause he thought you were still on the PJB wagon at that point.


What did make you change your opinion on him?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

yfw it's laundry posting and he has no idea of pjb's meta

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Be back tomorrow, had a really bad/long day. You don't want me in here right now.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

ATTENTION ALL YOCTOGRAMS.

Teacher's back.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Neither Swiss or Adum have much knowledge of my meta. We've only played one game together (and they were in that hydra) and those examples he just gave you aren't games either of them were in. Clearly they've been doing some homework, all to gain a read on one player. I'm pretty comfortable calling S&C town, at this point.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I kinda like Lego still.

Why?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

That's exactly the unconstructive kind of attitude to the game that makes me prefer talking to Sworddancer over Xonar any day of the week.

Get over it.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Unvote

Pretty sure PJB's town. I also read Lego as town.
Ryu is null and owes us reads. Same for S&C. Neither have shown us why they should be the leading pack. PJB, Foxy, Kantrip, I think you should start making up your mind on where you're going to put your vote. We're not getting anywhere if all the active players keep busting each other's heads and let people get away with inactivity. Hando, Badwolf, Frozen and JTB are all pretty much complete deadweight and should die asap.

Do you have a scumread?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Hmmm, we still have a good 5 days left until deadline hits. I guess there's still time to get at least another good wagon in.

Kantrip, I disagree with you that lynching PJB on account of his connections is a good idea. He will likely flip town and the only thing we'll learn is that most people who have wagoned him were wrong for one reason or another. And we don't need to actually see his flip to know that the way AM or I pushed for the PJB lynch was a lot more believable than JTB's or Hando's was.

Eh, maybe, if I knew what his alignment was. Do you? Because I would love, absolutely adore, to see PJB's flip for some of these slots.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Some Only Hate Call-outs Aimed Heavily Toward Own Actions.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You digits might call that OMGUS though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I gave it some thought while looking at work, more so with consideration on post #497

I'm no leader. I'm not a fan of lynching PJB with that claim, more so with his reasoning provided. Still his play is kinda off to me, like in Zen's game where I was the serial killer, I've seen him stick his neck out and get reads faster. It's weird because the way PJB has been playing is something I would look for in newbie scum in which they are hesitant to give out reads and stick their neck out.

Granted this hasn't been always true since while I consider myself the best at reading John2k4, he is very similar. You see the effort and the way he positions himself to work for town. It's not something I think someone like PJB, who has played some mafia would do.

This is why I refused to ask him specific questions and told him to try and give something. If he did it on his own instead of his null list, I would have had better consideration.

I'm bad etc.

Gheb's been weird with PJB but his behavior imo, but it matches his kind of philosophy with players and how he reads them. He's been harsh with PJB but still reads him as town. I think this is more so that he is being dynamic with his reads and trying to get even his town reads to do more.

I do not get Legolas scum at all.

S&C benched til I rethink them. Their posts still set off alarms on them.

Kantrip is town.

I don't have any solid scumreads at this point, I blame my lazyness/ineptitude. Closest I got is still S&C but I'm not 100% on them with the recent posts, even Swiss' post asking for a case on PJB.

I'll go the inactive route.

Vote: JTB

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Tbh I fail to see what's wrong with that course of action.

Gheb, bbycakes, you're gonna have to work a lot harder on backing up on that point of view before I catch up in this thread, or you're just gonna need to shut up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why?

How they approached the PJB wagon, it seems with thleir wording sincere.

Hard to put into words.

Brewyu needs to think on how to explain it.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Every waggoner needs to give a very concise, very clear explanation as to why PJB is the lynch target.

Because he is scum. Duh.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I don't. There's a rather low chance he'll flip scum and we won't learn a whole lot from his flip either.

You gotta be ****ting me. I mean, that's all?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Brewyu will league then be back in a sec.

Smurfs ftw.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

mfw Ryu accuses me of not sticking my neck out enough when I've been the one and only lynchpick the entire game. As the doctor.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

yfw it's laundry posting and he has no idea of pjb's meta

Not particularly interested in which head of the hydra made the post tbh, mostly addressed ryker cause he's the head I'm trying to convince.

Doubtful ryker knows it either, only played one game that I came across (Persona) and replaced out before anything relevant occurred, but you know you should both read up on his play, he has plenty of town games (BiM 2013, MLP: Friendship is Mafia, Bust a Move, Megaman Zero, Mini Bowser) and Persona is his one scum game.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I need to think of an alternative lynch instead of Gheb in case I can't convince anyone about his scumminess, but being v/la and with Xonar being lazy I'm a little stressed from time right now.

People should comment on Gheb. Specifically S&C and Ryker. I want to know both of those slots are town reading Gheb. I know they won't though because Ryker procrastinates on playing games and probably won't being posting until the end of the Day and both heads of S&C just like never post.

I liked Gheb a lot. Particularly the post where he acted humbled in front of Swiss. I did not expect that post coming from Gheb ever, especially a scum Gheb. I do not think scum Gheb willingly hands over reigns to the game. The content he had at the beginning also never really bothered me.

Since then, however, he has 180'd on PJB for some half-assed reasons and is pushing the day toward an inactive which is another option I dislike, especially with so clear a scumspect on the board.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

What are you smoking? Because apparently it's more than enough to share.

I bet he's grown enough for 3 so count me in.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Today or tomarrow I'll outline why PJB is the right call.

He hasn't changed my mind that much.

Looking forward to this.