Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

^
That is L-1 btw.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Explain why Badwolf is better than Joker.

I'm not going to explain the obvious.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Gheb, you do know how very little badfwolf gives us, right? I can't think of him posting once so far.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And thus it's a good idea to give him the free pass and lynch one of the most active and genuine players instead?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

And thus it's a good idea to give him the free pass and lynch one of the most active and genuine players instead?

Except for the fact that his play has been bad and the fact that just about every player has commented on him, compared to the nothing that we get form badwolf.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The fact that everybody commented on him is irrelevant. His play hasn't been as bad as many other players - including yours.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

How is the fact that no one commented on him not relevant?

 

[Handorin]

At work, not much time, but I hope it's semi helpful to mention to dark horse you can use the search function, type in a name, then click this thread only, and you'll find all the posts he made.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

At work, not much time, but I hope it's semi helpful to mention to dark horse you can use the search function, type in a name, then click this thread only, and you'll find all the posts he made.

Thanks

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Holy hell badwolf has not made a post since the 17th

@mod can we get a replacement for badwolf?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How is the fact that no one commented on him not relevant?

Because whether people choose to comment on him and what comments they make is not within his power - what we know / think we know about the people that commented on him is not affected by his flip.

But since we're already talking about it - what exactly do you think you will learn from his flip and why? I'm sure you have some amazing insight to offer.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Holy hell badwolf has not made a post since the 17th

@mod can we get a replacement for badwolf?

Ditto on this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Because whether people choose to comment on him and what comments they make is not within his power - what we know / think we know about the people that commented on him is not affected by his flip.

But since we're already talking about it - what exactly do you think you will learn from his flip and why? I'm sure you have some amazing insight to offer.

I know who said bull on him one alignment or another. Well that and that case thing or something I should be making but I'm working on a promo series/gonna workout before working til midnight.

But I do like the idea of lynching Badwolf.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Seriously **** this week... I need a goddamn day off...

Before I go back to working my life away for the rest of the day, here's where I'm at right now.

Lynching PJB is by no means a bad option. A lot of people are advocating for that lynch because of the info we get out of it (namely, connections based on PJBs provided reads and a better idea of where the scum lay in the pro vs. against PJB lynch divide. With so many vocal players in this game having been involved in the PJB wagon or atleast having commented on it, its hard to argue against the notion that the PJB wagon is a stance heavy (and thus info heavy) wagon.

However I think Gheb brings up and extreme important point: there are a ton of slots in this game that have been completely off the radar and are basically getting a free pass through day 1 completely unpressured and unscrutinized (myself included in that group).

Almost half the game is barely playing, Badwolf being the most extreme example. I think our prospects for securing a replacement and getting some extra time here are rather high, but idk what Gova likes to do wrt replacements and extensions. I'd certainly advocate for both of those right now though.

Rushing to lynch badwolf just because he's the most inactive is ********. Anyone pushing to do that looks sketchy imo for looking for that lame excuse for a wagon to take off. If we're going to think that little about what our lynch ought to be, we might as well just finish off PJB because as previously stated, we get a lot more info out of that lynch than some completely inactive slot. Wayyyyy smarter to use our lynch effectively here on D1; let the vigbait be vigbait.

There's no sense in being overly myopic this day phase. We've only really had one viable wagon the whole phase, so jumping from that to saying "well lets just pick an inactive and settle for that" is just trading one single issue of focus to another unrelated and equally narrow lynch criteria.

We def need to get an idea of what kind of timetable we have though. @Mod: Can you let us know what the prospects are of getting a replacement for Badwolf and/or getting a phase extension?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You know I'd be much more inclined to buy it if that didn't came from the second most inactive slot in the game.

 

[Gova]

I've prodded and am looking for a replacement. Whatever the faster option is, is what will occur. If there isn't a replacement you'll have to vote on a deadline extension.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Oh hey this game, ill read up tonight and post again. Sorry for the absence.

 

[Gova]

1. Handorin ()
2. BadWolf28738 (Gheb)
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
5. Gheb_01 ()
6. JTB ()
7. frozenflame751 ()
8. Potassium (Foxy, PBJ)
9. Legolas(SC)
10. Red Ruy ()
11. PrivateJoker-Brown (K, JTB, Handorin, AM, RR, DH)
12. Foxy the Silver Fox ()
13. Scylla & Charybdis ()

Not voting: BW, FF, Legolas

With 13 playing it takes 7 lynch!

Deadline is Monday, May 27th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Really, I'm back at L-1? Is this **** really going to happen? Looks like I'm claiming, though I really wanted to avoid this...

I'm the Vacuum Element. My ability is called Cold of Space. It allows me to target somebody, and cause all Night actions taken against that person to get sucked out into the vacuum of space, and fail. This includes night kills.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

mmk.

Unvote

Thoughts on this?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

My thoughts are that you can rest assured that you don't have to kill me today, because the mafia are going to do it for you toNight.

 

[Handorin]

Ughhhh. It smells so much like wine.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Guys, did we go into this game wearing our ****** hats or something? Since when did "information" out prioritize mislynching someone? FF, do you even believe PJB is scummy? You're whole post is justifying the lynch based on general theory. What about what HE has done?What about what OTHERS have done in thread?

mmk.

Unvote

Thoughts on this?

The PR seems a bit too strong for my liking, however that's WIFOM and I'm not going to lynch him just off of that.

Logic dictates that claims are almost certain to be useless this game since this is a non vanilla game.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why the **** are people disappearing at the worst time possible? We have like a bit more than 24 hours left and nobody is there to comment on anything.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ughhhh. It smells so much like wine.

Have to agree with this. Then again, a claim should never outweigh somebody's play ... so I'll stick with my town read on him for now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My thoughts are that you can rest assured that you don't have to kill me today, because the mafia are going to do it for you toNight.

For the record, I think this is a pretty dumb remark and will likely come back to haunt you regardless of what happens toNight ... if you don't end up getting lynched toDay, that is. Why did you feel the need to make this comment?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I need to mull this over. Unvote for now

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Cuz I'm kind of pissed that I had to claim.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Cuz I'm kind of pissed that I had to claim.

^ was directed to Gheb

Like, the whole reason I was trying to play careful was because I didn't want to get killed by the town, and now I'm gonna get killed by the mafia. It's pretty frustrating, cuz the only way I live is if the mafia are just confident they know who I'm gonna protect. Even then, my days are numbered, and no amount of walking the suspicion line is gonna keep me alive, cuz I'm claimed now.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Wow, so Smashboards just ate my wall.

****ing great.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I dunno what else to tell you, Gheb. I don't think that coming into a game with the attitude of "This guy is smarter than me. Imma just do what he says and hope he helps me win." is a good way to play, and it certainly won't help you improve.

I liked-ish PJB's play until here. I agreed with the things with the sheeping. It's not necessarily a good thing that people are willing to overlook a decently big thing like that. This, however, is loaded with passive-aggressiveness which will not be good right now.

So this is all that was saved.... Yeah.... Kinda pissed.

Whatever. Wall time ver. 2.0

Basically anyone who's thinking that they can even try to have thread power is wrong. Basically it's not going to happen with Swiss around. It's not that I'm supporting him, it's that he is the strongest player and it's just how it's going to go down. I'm getting really annoyed with the fracking arguments over it.

Second, sheeping isn't a bad thing in it's own place. It might be a problem if they were sheeping to lynch, but at this point it's not a big deal because of the sheer unwillingness to lynch anyone. It was still very close to the beginning of the Day and PJB getting pissy at being a RVS waggon shouldn't have happened. His entire play throughout the parts that I've read has been very aggressive, whether it passive or not.


Right now onto some quotes.

You can still agree with a man because he's right. If everyone refused to follow one another, no one would get lynched.

Agreed to this, sheeping isn't sheeping if it gets places.

I don't think my reaction was that bad. Considering the fact that I'm town, anything being viewed as scummy is just clear misinterpretation.

This is just so bad. I'm seriously having trouble trying to describe how bad this is.

Oh look at that, I refuted the only "fact" you gave me.

Now this is just getting annoying.
More later, I have work again.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Gova: Tomarrow is Memorial day, can we have a 1 day extension for that?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Vote Badwolf

I don't care what you guys think. You all keep making the same mistakes anyway. You'll lynch PJB and if he flips town you'll shrug off responsibility or pretend that you have gained some amazing new info that you haven't but you'll tell yourself that you have - to make you feel better about not actually having a ****ing clue. It's sad that this kind of misguided behavior is a towntell for most of the active slots [Ryu and Kantrip in particular] and the other active slots either read pro-town to me or at least not scum. You guys can do what you think is best for yourself, I'll continue to do what I think is best for town. Some of you have yet to understand that difference.

Not this **** again.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Alright Swiss, you wanna know why I think this kid is scum? It's simple: when pressured and immediately pushed into the spotlight, he refused to make a connection to anyone, specifically to stronger players at all, threw one of the grodiest OMGUS votes I've seen that was completely misguided, and then when things finally settled down, he made a bunch of half-assed, noncommital reads.

I mean, that whole wagon started by Kantrip trying to make a connection to the kid only for him to turn it down. PJB immediately flipped out, people piled on, and his overreactions got incredible. His stated reasons for not sheeping you, besides the obvious one of "it would be supporting his own wagon," was that if you were lynched and flipped scum, he would immediately be lynched for sheeping you.

I can go back and grab his exact quote, if you want.

That's grody as ****. It's an overreaction, is defensive as hell, and shows that he has no interest in making any connections with you for fear of his own hide. He's not willing to cooperate. When did all of this become townie (bad townie but townie nonetheless) play? Like, you keep saying "he's not scum" but I don't see where or how. He's dumb as **** for not understanding why his wagon even existed but that's irrelevant to what he did above. You're asking town to give their reasons as to why he's scum. When do we get to ask you why you think he's town? You act like you're in charge of this game but for all your bravado, you've given us so little to work with. I want to know why you think he's town. Show me you're reasoning, stop asking everyone else for theirs.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Also I know I shouldn't be using meta so ignore this point if you're totally against meta, but taking into consideration PJB's scum play he hasn't been acting like his previous scum play would suggest he would. He seems to be antagonistic as both alignments, but a key difference I noticed is that he was much more reserved and selective about what he outputted as scum. I kinda expect a scum PJB to have rolled up into a ball by now with all the pressure he's getting but he hasn't.

This is worthless to me. Except the bolded. Show me where he's put in anything? Even that half-assed readslist he posted a few pages back was almost completely filled with nulls.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm seriously starting to think that Gheb's trollng us. Either he got scum for the 500th times and just said "*sigh* I don't even care anymore" or he's just having fun.



General practice. I've been burned by people because I over relied on meta to read them. People adapt (especially as scum) and all that jazz.

*S&C still hasn't told me why Gheb is town.*

*S&C still hasn't told me why I'm scum .*

*S&C still hasn't told any of us why PJB is town.*

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Or maybe, you know, I'm just not reading PJB as scum anymore and am actually vocal about it? I don't know what's so unlikely about it and have yet to see reasoning that truly convinces me otherwise. Instead of acting like it's better to just not take me serious how about you actually argue my points? If you think people should be lynching PJB then you should give me a good reason why.

Why say this, and then follow it up with this:

I don't care what you guys think. You all keep making the same mistakes anyway. You'll lynch PJB and if he flips town you'll shrug off responsibility or pretend that you have gained some amazing new info that you haven't but you'll tell yourself that you have - to make you feel better about not actually having a ****ing clue. It's sad that this kind of misguided behavior is a towntell for most of the active slots [Ryu and Kantrip in particular] and the other active slots either read pro-town to me or at least not scum. You guys can do what you think is best for yourself, I'll continue to do what I think is best for town. Some of you have yet to understand that difference.

because it totally sends a conflicting message. If you don't care what we think, why are you asking for reasons from a slot you've stated you think is scum before?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

EBWOP: Nevermind, thought Gheb had Lego as scum somewhere. I guess I got him confused with Starcraft because their actions have been incredibly similar this game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

AM thoughts on the claim?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Sorry for the misunderstanding then.

I don't really know what to tell you on why I changed my mind. It's not one particular reason but more a number of smallish reasons that together add up to the conclusion that he's likely town, in my opinion anyway. One of those reasons is based on the people who have joined to wagon. By the time I unvoted it was only AM I felt comfortable with being on the wagon. I don't think I can agree with Kantrip, JTB or Hando being on the wagon nor am I convinced by their reasoning and that bugs me enough to second guess the whole thing. To be perfectly honest, every single player on the PJB wagon except AM is a good counter-argument against that lynch to me right now. It also just so happened that my clearest town reads [Lego + Foxy] both argued against the wagon. As for my own reasoning, I guess it's just that I'm probably the one person who tends to second-guess himself the most over the course of a game and I can see myself being wrong on PJB easily enough. Looking at the facts, I see a lot more arguments against the PJB lynch than for it.

So why are you looking at Badwolf (inactive) instead of JTB (inactive and a counterargument to the PJB wagon)?