Edgeguarding - What seprates the Good and Great Jiggs Players

[lonejedi]

In melee, one of the greatest attributes of Jigglypuff was her edgeguarding. She was second to none in keeping characters off the stage. But in Brawl, many people think that edgeguarding is non-existant since most characters now have great recoveries.

But not so! Jiggs still can give problems to characters trying to recover, you just have to be more sneaky.

Personally, I'm starting to discover that for me, D-Air is a really great edge guard. I've pulled off several Dairs to fairs off the edge. The set up works on a lot of characters, especially characters that rely on a vertical recovery such as Mario and Marth. The Dair tends to kick them backwards a little bit, and it really diminishes any use of their second jump. Dair is also amazing on big chunky characters that have huge hitboxes.

Obviously Fair, and Bair are great for WoP and edgeguarding, but unsweetspotted Fairs and Nairs, have just enough hit stun, and barely any knockback to follow up with sweet spotted fair.

Everyone else's thoughts on edge guarding?

 

[HiddenBowser]

Edge guarding is definitely doable in brawl, it's just a lot harder. I've found that if you dair a marth or some other characters, they can just up b before you can do another dair, so that makes it difficult. Nair is pretty good for getting in the way of linear recoveries and then try to follow where they go after the hit. But like I said, it's difficult to actually gimp and edge guard someone and doesn't always work...

But I think the most important part about edge guarding in this game is not gimping them and killing them, but just adding on that little extra damage and hitting them back out to try to get some more damage. 5-10% extra here and there may not seem like much but it could mean the difference of a kill later in the match and could alter the outcome of the game.

 

[illinialex24]

I dunno so much about dair unless they are Star Fox, I personally like nair, sourspot fair, and bair

Sourspot fair is a god on Ness, Lucas, and Fox and Falco. I personally love nair on a Wolf. I kept one below a stage for like 20 seconds just nairing his recovery lol because I wanted to screw with him because I had a nice lead. I coulda edgehogged but... nair can help you setup an edgeguard.

 

[MrEh]

Intercepting their second jump with an aerial is a good way to set up for a gimp.

Dair is awesome because of its stupid disjointed hitbox, as well as it's long duration.

 

[HiddenBowser]

yeah, dair does beat a bunch of stuff

 

[san.]

Usually, nair rarely disappoints, but it usually depends on my positioning. It has been increasingly harder to follow up 100% after dair, but it's still a nice alternative, especially if it eats some attacks.

 

[MrEh]

Dair eats up almost anything that isn't disjointed. It's like pound, but actually helps to gimp. ^^

 

[PND]

In addition to what's been said, a good gimp game requires so much practice stage spiking, and knowledge of how to react after a tech into the Stage. With so many recovery options, many characters can and will simply choose to save their second jump and attempt to airdodge past us, knowing they are safe. Knowing how to eliminate the jump, bounce them off the level, and essentially place them back where they were is of the utmost importance. Also key is the knowledge on how characters recover. I don't mean just their Up B, although that's important to know, I mean, do they DI up and drift back to the level? Do they recover low? How much leeway do they have in sweetspotting the edge with their recovery?

All of these factors must be taken into account in an instant against an opponent, you must make a calculated guess at all times. Often, for example, when facing a PK kid if I knock them off, I find the use their second jump almost immediately to attempt to get back without PKT. After a bair, I usually immediately turnaround jump and fair. Often times it sweet spots and gets them. Or they'll fall, delay the jump, and hope to god I can't get in position to gimp them while they try to PKT.

What makes gimping so hard is exactly that, the fact that every character has options. All we can do is take away their best ones, and attempt to limit the poorer choices. I find that playing Jiggs relies so much on this type of thought that I would say edgeguarding, contrary to the title of this topic, does not separate the great players from the good ones. I would argue it's the great players who separate good edgeguarding from great edgeguarding. Cause, and correlation.

What separates the Good and Great players is the ability to apply that mindset to every facet of her game, not merely edgeplay.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Nair is great for lazy edgeguards. just fall off w/ your foot out.. lol.

 

[san.]

I always believed edgeguarding was the easiest part of jigglypuff's game.. Guess my view was surprisingly is in the minority.

 

[PND]

It's the BEST part of her game, I'd say that's pretty much undisputed. As far as the easiest part? I would disagree heavily. Players who know the match up are incredibly smart at getting back to the stage, you have to be a step ahead of them at all times. You can thank general floatiness and multiple air dodges for that.

 

[Airgemini]

Nair is amazing for Pits using Up B, it also combos very nicely with Fair. I've never tried Dair as a combo..

 

[GeneralWoodman]

i use dair everywhere, try changing directions when jumping and performing dairs facing oppposite directions, map out the spacing, u can move in an "X" like area of movement for gimping if ur opponent is aggressive with a recovery u can also DI left and right as if dash dancing, this doubles the basic hit box of dair and allows u to escape or DI away from ur opponent once u have landed a perfect kick or stun kick
thats all u need to know about dair in an advanced format, the rest of the stuff is self explanatory or widely known

 

[Thinkaman]

Dair is normally the best option against Wario. Just throwing that in.

 

[illinialex24]

Dair is normally the best option against Wario. Just throwing that in.

Its hard to get him off his bike, if he's stuck without a bike sure, but if not, try to nair him off and then go for a dair.

But dair isn't the best option because it generally puts them in a better position, but of course, it is very character oriented.

 

[Thinkaman]

Normally I have the most success at getting Wario off the bike with a dair... That's why I said it. You just get above him and throw it out, so he bikes into it.

 

[illinialex24]

Normally I have the most success at getting Wario off the bike with a dair... That's why I said it. You just get above him and throw it out, so he bikes into it.

Yeah but the issue is that he can pop out generally if your trying to approach with a dair and fair you badly. Which is why I stopped using it. My prefered is a bair if I can land it because its the safest.

 

[MrEh]

Yeah but the issue is that he can pop out generally if your trying to approach with a dair and fair you badly. Which is why I stopped using it. My prefered is a bair if I can land it because its the safest.

He wouldn't try to Fair you if he's offstage though. In a situation where he's forced to use his Bike, Dair eats him up.

 

[illinialex24]

He wouldn't try to Fair you if he's offstage though. In a situation where he's forced to use his Bike, Dair eats him up.

Yeah he does. If he's recovering, and he should be coming above stage, with his DI, a fair knocks you away long enough so he has free to the ledge. Done to me all the time. Which is why I adapted with bair. Not great but a decent fit.

 

[Glick]

Wario's who don't estimate the jump off their bike trying to get back on stage from below eat a down smash. I do it consistently.

 

[Spoonbob]

edgeguarding > D3.

There's not much more to be said about that.

 

[Glick]

Srsly. What I like to do is hang on the ledge when hes recovering. Unless you know otherwise, same with pits, they use all their jumps to get back to the stage. If you just hang there they wont use any move because they expect you to roll onto the stage to protect from getting stage spiked. If they catch on expect to get stage spiked, or prepare to tech it.

After they lose their jumps and they are forced to up b back onto the stage, rest them.

If they aren't at high enough percents hit them with roll out or something.

 

[illinialex24]

Srsly. What I like to do is hang on the ledge when hes recovering. Unless you know otherwise, same with pits, they use all their jumps to get back to the stage. If you just hang there they wont use any move because they expect you to roll onto the stage to protect from getting stage spiked. If they catch on expect to get stage spiked, or prepare to tech it.

After they lose their jumps and they are forced to up b back onto the stage, rest them.

If they aren't at high enough percents hit them with roll out or something.

A push away bair works very well also.

 

[Maniclysane]

edgeguarding > D3.

There's not much more to be said about that.

Then you rest him out of his upb. D:

 

[HiddenBowser]

well we have no general discussion and jedi doesn't post in the groups so I guess I'll say this here...

Jedi, nice job getting 13th at FBT6 with jiggs.

 

[illinialex24]

well we have no general discussion and jedi doesn't post in the groups so I guess I'll say this here...

Jedi, nice job getting 13th at FBT6 with jiggs.

Yeah, congratulations. Really great job, I wish I could have showed up.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I wish I knew Lain was going so I could go with him... but I could beat him so he prolly wouldn't want to risk it

*this is the part where lain comes in to say how there's no way in hell I would beat him even though he knows I could*

<3 Lain =)

 

[Miles.]

I find Dair to be the best option most of the time.

Also most of the time even if I cant keep my opponent from getting back to the level, edgeguarding ends up equaling lots of free damage as they struggle to get back to the level through my harassment.