"Echo Characters"

[HairMythe]

So, I see many people suggest Chrom as Ike's Echo. Although I'm aware he was first planned for Smash 4, and was dropped because his style was in between Marth and Ike, I really feel he doesn't qualify as Ike's potential Echo. Chrom's class is based off Marth, just like Lucina. "Classic lord" with a rapier. Admitedly, his style is less refined, but if anything, that makes him closer to Roy. Ike's class is modeled after the mercenary class, and that actually sets them pretty far apart, gameplay wise, in Fire Emblem. I could also mention how Ragnell is meant to be much heavier than Falchion, so obviously there's a lot of weight to Ike's attacks and animations. Chrom making the same moves would probably look strange. Especially compared to Lucina, who's wielding the very same sword.

In my opinion, Chrom as Ike's Echo would be as off as Lyn as Marth' Echo. They're different classes and they're wielding different type of swords.

A lot of people are talking about Dark Samus AND Shadow AND Hilda all as echoes. I’m not sure about all of them because I think we can do better than “echo = dark counterpart”. One of those three would make more sense.

Also the Gamexplain interview specifically said that echoes would have the same general properties - “walk and run speed, jump height, basic attack animations, general knockback.” ( 18:02ish) Because Dr. Mario is “heavier”, he’s no longer considered an echo. (18:16) So hopefully that clarifies a bit - it certainly did for me.

There's also other details that set Dr. Mario appart from Mario, especially his down B and dair that are completely different from the originals.
It's hard to say what's the actual frontier between normal clone and echos. What we have now is Daisy, Lucina and Dark Pit. I'll mainly talk about Lucina and Dark Pit, as we don't know much about Daisy yet. They have the same stats and the same moveset as the originals, albeit with some variations. They were meant to be alternate costumes for the originals. It's also to note that the characters themselves, in their own franchise, were designed after their originals. However, these are unwritten rules, so take them with a grain of salt.

 

[7NATOR]

I dont know about Shadow being Sonic's echo. at least a Semi clone, Shadow with 2 Spindashes, and a Spring instead of at least Chaos Spear and Chaos Control would be no good.I dont want my boy to be shafted

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I was on twitter earlier and found someone's artwork of a couple Mother characters he wants as echo fighters

Specifically, the one I want to show is the one for Giygas (or Giegue if you go by the EB Beginnings name)

Spoiler

I think it would be really cool, especially since supposedly Mewtwo was based off this guy to begin with. Only problem being is that he would need a slight redesign to fit Mewtwo's build. specifically, his legs and feet. I don't think that's too much of an issue since we only really have a single sprite to work with anyways.

And here I was thinking of Pokemon as Echos of other series and not the other way around. This'd be the perfect way to rep EBB.

 

[ZTurtle]

On the subject of Shadow, I have to wonder if he would have his own running animation if he were made an Echo Fighter. They really can't reuse Sonic's running animation because the figure 8 would NOT look right on Shadow. His skating running animation is very iconic to his character. On the other hand, the only unique animations that Echoes seem to have so far are idle poses/animations, taunts, and victory animations. Their animations are otherwise identical, just with a different model. So would they make Shadow an Echo fighter if they would have to make a new running animation?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

On the subject of Shadow, I have to wonder if he would have his own running animation if he were made an Echo Fighter. They really can't reuse Sonic's running animation because the figure 8 would NOT look right on Shadow. His skating running animation is very iconic to his character. On the other hand, the only unique animations that Echoes seem to have so far are idle poses/animations, taunts, and victory animations. Their animations are otherwise identical, just with a different model. So would they make Shadow an Echo fighter if they would have to make a new running animation?

If Idle's can be different I'm sure the running animation can be. It's also worth noting that Lucina still has the different shield breaker animation, as long as the hitbox is the same animations can seemingly be changed

 

[Guybrush20X6]

On the subject of Shadow, I have to wonder if he would have his own running animation if he were made an Echo Fighter. They really can't reuse Sonic's running animation because the figure 8 would NOT look right on Shadow. His skating running animation is very iconic to his character. On the other hand, the only unique animations that Echoes seem to have so far are idle poses/animations, taunts, and victory animations. Their animations are otherwise identical, just with a different model. So would they make Shadow an Echo fighter if they would have to make a new running animation?

Daisy has a different prancing animation to Peach from what I've seen. So they could make a new dash animation for him.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Daisy has a different prancing animation to Peach from what I've seen. So they could make a new dash animation for him.

You sure? it looks the same to me

 

[Starcutter]

On the subject of Shadow, I have to wonder if he would have his own running animation if he were made an Echo Fighter. They really can't reuse Sonic's running animation because the figure 8 would NOT look right on Shadow. His skating running animation is very iconic to his character. On the other hand, the only unique animations that Echoes seem to have so far are idle poses/animations, taunts, and victory animations. Their animations are otherwise identical, just with a different model. So would they make Shadow an Echo fighter if they would have to make a new running animation?

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. Lucina has a different shield breaker animation to Marth. I'm sure they would reanimate one of the key differences between Sonic and Shadow.

 

[Louie G.]

Alright so I'm not expecting too many Echoes, the one that I'm fairly confident in right now is Dark Samus because of the mysterious costume removal plus its current absence in the Assist Trophy lineup. Outside of that I'm not too sure what to expect, some characters being thrown around like Isabelle and Shadow would be pretty cool on their own but I feel like making them Echo characters would squander some of their potential to be a unique newcomer. Isabelle in particular I can't really see using some of the tools available to Villager, but who knows.

One Echo character I really want to see is Octoling, although I'm not sure how likely that is given how recently Octo Expansion came out so playable Octolings are only now becoming a thing. Still they fit the mold of what an Echo character should be perfectly, in my eyes. Slightly different aesthetics and properties to their attacks (octo weapons have different properties right? It would work perfectly), mostly the same build and weight and all that. Octoling is the only Echo fighter I'm in full support of, I really want Dark Samus too but I would like it even more if it was Luigified.

 

[Inawordyes]

I'm fairly convinced of Hilda being one of the remaining 2 or 3 at most echo characters. Though, apart from Dark Samus, the only other potential echo fighter that could result from Samus is Sylux.

And Anthony Higgs

 

[AquaSol]

I think the concept of echo fighters is a double-edged sword. It's kind of sad to see so many interesting and historical characters be predicted as echoes, like Dixie Kong and Impa. In my opinion, fighters like them should have better than that (and in most cases would not even make sense as pure clones). Furthermore, I don't like the idea of the roster being saturated by these characters. Newcomers like Chrom and Octoling seem completely unnecessary to me. On the other hand, echoes may be the only chance for a lot of candidates. After Sakurai said that we should not expect too many newcomers (I expect 4-6 more uniques by the way), echoes may be a decent way to pad the roster. I don't mean to attack anyone's most wanted, but that's the way I see it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I was on twitter earlier and found someone's artwork of a couple Mother characters he wants as echo fighters

Specifically, the one I want to show is the one for Giygas (or Giegue if you go by the EB Beginnings name)

Spoiler

I think it would be really cool, especially since supposedly Mewtwo was based off this guy to begin with. Only problem being is that he would need a slight redesign to fit Mewtwo's build. specifically, his legs and feet. I don't think that's too much of an issue since we only really have a single sprite to work with anyways.

Giegue getting in Smash would honestly be a dream. Giygas could even be a Final Smash. (It does no damage, it simply disturbs the audience)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fools. Giygas is already in Smash. He is the thing inside Master Core.

 

[Wouldo]

This might sound weird, but Gardevoir as a Lucario echo? It would fight with sparkly fairy effects and use Moonblast instead of Aura Sphere.

If not, I’d love to see this as a mod. Just change the aura to pink.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

One Echo character I really want to see is Octoling, although I'm not sure how likely that is given how recently Octo Expansion came out so playable Octolings are only now becoming a thing. Still they fit the mold of what an Echo character should be perfectly, in my eyes. Slightly different aesthetics and properties to their attacks (octo weapons have different properties right? It would work perfectly), mostly the same build and weight and all that. Octoling is the only Echo fighter I'm in full support of, I really want Dark Samus too but I would like it even more if it was Luigified.

While it by no means confirms them, the Octo expansion did come as a result of Splatoon 1 interest in Octolings just as much as it did come from the attention given in their sequel (Marina anyone?). As for the weapons does anyone have any news about that? particularly with Octo expansion

 

[verysleepywolf]

Metal Mario.

He's already somewhat of a Smash character, having appeared as a mini-boss in Smash 64 and Melee.

Plus, he even has his own stage.

I really love the idea of this, both as an excuse to have Meta Crystal as a returning stage and to have my favorite version of Mario. I envision these cool metallic flame effects, a liquid metal cape, etc. It would be quite dope. Chances are practically zero of this since the metal box is an item.

GoodGrief741 that is a brilliant idea, as a Mewtwo main and a Mother fan I would honestly main that.

 

[kool2419]

Here are the Echo Fighter i can see getting in

- Dixie Kong
- Hilda or Toon Zelda
- Medusa
- Chrom or Camilla (Probably?)
- Celica
- Roll
- Ken or Sakura
- Isabelle
- Jeanne
- Ms. Pac-Man
- Miyu or Faye (The Girls from Star Fox 2)

- Octoling
I totally support the idea of Echo Fighters since they don`t take a lot of development time, with 3 already confirmed i can see getting between 3 or 4 more before launch. We just have to wait and see in the coming months.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This might sound weird, but Gardevoir as a Lucario echo? It would fight with sparkly fairy effects and use Moonblast instead of Aura Sphere.

If not, I’d love to see this as a mod. Just change the aura to pink.

It may look rather strange for Gardevoir to palm strike and kick, even magically enhanced. I think Zelda would be a better basis for Gardevoir to Echo or perhaps Mewtwo (if the dress can do the tail attacks.)

 

[WaddleMatt]

I'm not against echo fighters it is just I don't think we are getting nearly as many as some think. Probably 3-4 more maximum.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm not against echo fighters it is just I don't think we are getting nearly as many as some think. Probably 3-4 more maximum.

True and most likely there won't be any for characters who already have derivatives already in the roster. Even with that, there's so many possiblitlies that it's hard to not get a little excited.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not against echo fighters it is just I don't think we are getting nearly as many as some think. Probably 3-4 more maximum.

For launch, I think that's probably accurate.

I'm just remembering how, for Smash 4, the DLC of amazing new 3rd party characters like Ryu and Cloud was broken up with old returning clone characters like Roy and Lucas. Well in this game, they don't have any more old characters to bring back, so I suspect we're going to see that DLC lineup padded out with some more Echoes as time goes on.

 

[Koopaul]

Looking at some of the suggestions for an echo fighter it seems a lit of you don't know the difference between an echo and just a regular clone.

Having a radically different move (like Dr. Mario's Tornado vs Mario's FLUDD) or having a very different hurt/hitbox (Toon Link vs Young Link) mean you are NOT an Echo Fighter.

You need to have almost the exact same moveset and almost the exact same hurt/hitbox. Those of you making the suggestion that Toon Zelda would be an Echo fighter to regular Zelda are not considering how the size difference would eliminate the echo status.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, I see many people suggest Chrom as Ike's Echo. Although I'm aware he was first planned for Smash 4, and was dropped because his style was in between Marth and Ike, I really feel he doesn't qualify as Ike's potential Echo. Chrom's class is based off Marth, just like Lucina. "Classic lord" with a rapier. Admitedly, his style is less refined, but if anything, that makes him closer to Roy. Ike's class is modeled after the mercenary class, and that actually sets them pretty far apart, gameplay wise, in Fire Emblem. I could also mention how Ragnell is meant to be much heavier than Falchion, so obviously there's a lot of weight to Ike's attacks and animations. Chrom making the same moves would probably look strange. Especially compared to Lucina, who's wielding the very same sword.

In my opinion, Chrom as Ike's Echo would be as off as Lyn as Marth' Echo. They're different classes and they're wielding different type of swords.

I see your point here. But Ike's Specials, at least the Quick Draw and Aether, would really work on Chrom. They just shouldn't name Chrom's Up B Aether, rather his Side B, cause that's more fitting with Awakening canon.

And yes I to don't think all the rest of Ike's moves would be TOO fitting with Chrom, but it fits better than Roy in my opinion. Roy holds his sword backhanded in many animations, and also runs way faster than Marth, Ike and Corrin.

So honestly, what might be best fitting is Chrom being yet another Marth Echo, but stronger, heavier and slower than both Marth and Lucina. Which would in my own humble and personal opinion, be a great fit as well as the best possible way of Chrom getting in as a Echo. If not, a semi-clone of Ike could also be fitting.

Out of all the possible Sword Lords left though, I much rather would see Alm more than anyone. He's the real protagonist of Fire Emblem Echoes (is this a hint btw?) and seeing his animations in that game, he'd easily translate into Smash Bros.

 

[Master_Gamer]

This might sound weird, but Gardevoir as a Lucario echo? It would fight with sparkly fairy effects and use Moonblast instead of Aura Sphere.

If not, I’d love to see this as a mod. Just change the aura to pink.

Unfortunately, Gardevoir is already in the Pokeballs.

 

[Diddy Kong]

For launch, I think that's probably accurate.

I'm just remembering how, for Smash 4, the DLC of amazing new 3rd party characters like Ryu and Cloud was broken up with old returning clone characters like Roy and Lucas. Well in this game, they don't have any more old characters to bring back, so I suspect we're going to see that DLC lineup padded out with some more Echoes as time goes on.

Doesn't sound like a bad and even unlikely idea honestly.

I would pay for the Echoes if they add to the gameplay and I'd personally want them in. So if I could skip having Shadow the Hedgehog on my roster, I could. Btw, I'd totally skip Shadow the Hedgehog at any given moment in any part of the multiverse

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

In terms of echo fighters these are the characters I think actually work:
Ninten
Blood Falcon
Black Shadow
Dry Bowser
Hilda
Impa
Dark Meta Knight
Big Boss
Shadow
Pretty much all the other pikmin protags
Ms. Pac-Man
Ken
Akuma
Zack Fair
Jeanne
Octoling
Funky Kong
Dark Samus

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In terms of paid Echos, I think they'd have additional differences over the ones on-cart. For example Ken's Shoryken becoming a multi-hit attack an having a different half circle attack from Ryu.

Either that or they'd be packaged together by company.

Ken & Roll, Shadow and Jeanne, Big Boss and Richter Belmont, things like that.

 

[ErenJager]

I have a feeling characters like

Dixie and Impa might be regulated to Echo if included.

I'm impartial to Dixie's inclusion, so I wouldn't be that upset by it either way.

I'd be slightly bothered by Impa because well... Hyrule Warriors has some decently original content for her...
But if Nintendo doesn't want to use the spin off game version of her... sadly Sheik with that new final smash seems to scream Impa echo possibilities.


A side note, it appears as though Sakurai tried representing the generations of Zelda across the LoZ characters...
Maybe.. Just maybe... Hyrule Warriors will get a representative among that...
To further that point Smash Switch seems to be using stuff based from the Wii U era (clearly due to the development time frame).
We have things like Mario Maker costume for Mario, Inklings Wii U design, BotW Link.
What if... the success of Hyrule Warriors on Wii U & 3DS earns it a spot... and Tecmo Koei gets involved and adds Linkle to represent the Warriors era... which is now entered the Switch with a definitive edition...

 

[GM_3826]

I am really late to respond to this but

So, I see many people suggest Chrom as Ike's Echo. Although I'm aware he was first planned for Smash 4, and was dropped because his style was in between Marth and Ike, I really feel he doesn't qualify as Ike's potential Echo. Chrom's class is based off Marth, just like Lucina. "Classic lord" with a rapier. Admitedly, his style is less refined, but if anything, that makes him closer to Roy. Ike's class is modeled after the mercenary class, and that actually sets them pretty far apart, gameplay wise, in Fire Emblem. I could also mention how Ragnell is meant to be much heavier than Falchion, so obviously there's a lot of weight to Ike's attacks and animations. Chrom making the same moves would probably look strange. Especially compared to Lucina, who's wielding the very same sword.

In my opinion, Chrom as Ike's Echo would be as off as Lyn as Marth' Echo. They're different classes and they're wielding different type of swords.

No, that's not the case. The Falchion was never a rapier. In terms of appearance it's closer to the archetypical knightly sword or longsword. Chrom can wield rapiers, but his signature weapon is not a rapier and never was. Chrom is also modeled much more closely on Ike than Marth in terms of appearance, personality, and skillset. Notice how much more muscular than Marth or Roy was, how he's a lot more hotheaded then either of those characters were, and how his style is a lot less refined than either of those characters were. In fact, Chrom possesses Ike's signature skill, Aether,. probably the biggest reason as to why I feel like Chrom should be an Ike echo! Chrom using a similar style to Ike makes a lot more sense than him using a similar style to Roy, to be honest. I don't think him using similar animations to Ike would look strange, as again he's more muscular than Marth and Roy, so even if his sword is smaller the fact that there's a lot of weight behind his attacks would be easily explained. Him using thrusting motions with impeccable footwork would look odd. If Chrom swung his sword around wildly, that would look a lot better and make a lot more sense. Hell, it's even possible that the primary difference between Ike and Chrom is weight, as I imagine that changing Chrom's weight without changing his animations or moveset would be possible.

 

[ErenJager]

- Chrom
- Dixie
- Impa
- Isabelle

and Waddle Dee as an echo item for the Mr. Saturn item.

 

[Diddy Kong]

- Chrom
- Dixie
- Impa
- Isabelle

and Waddle Dee as an echo item for the Mr. Saturn item.

Please don't say that Dixie would Echo Diddy... PLEASE DON'T!

Impa is extremely likely however because of the new Final Smash of Sheik. So am betting there's a huge chance of that happening.

 

[ErenJager]

Please don't say that Dixie would Echo Diddy... PLEASE DON'T!

Impa is extremely likely however because of the new Final Smash of Sheik. So am betting there's a huge chance of that happening.

But If I do say it - and it does happen - the tears will taste sweet as opposed to salty.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Speaking of Waddle Dee, I actually think he could make a good echo fighter for Kirby, especially since Kirby had that one custom move where he didn’t copy other fighters. I guess it all depends if Sakurai finds “Kirby without copy” to be an idea worth exploring.

 

[MattX20]

Would Galacta Knight work as an echo fighter for Meta Knight? Or would he need a whole lot more to work?

 

[AreJay25]

Would Galacta Knight work as an echo fighter for Meta Knight? Or would he need a whole lot more to work?

Meta Knight has a Galacta Knight inspired skin so he's more than likely out of the running.

 

[Indefinite Minimum]

Morpho Knight as Meta Knight (((echo))) with three extra jumps.

 

[1FC0]

I am calling Professor Hector and Professor Vector. Considering the popularity that R.O.B. and his franchise are getting right now it is inevitable that Professor Hector will join the roster and of course Professor Vector will be his echo character.

In addition this will be the first Smash where the Robot series will get a stage and in fact it will get 8 stages. Also every single R.O.B. from subspace emissary is returning as an echo character of R.O.B. and the Ancient Minister is now and alt custom of R.O.B..

Due to the R.O.B. echo's filling up the roster they had to boot some other characters. So they decided to boot Mario since he is becoming more irrelvant every day and they decided to cancel Ridley since no one wanted Ridley in anyway.

Well it took Nintendo 5 games but they finally got their act together.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Speaking of Waddle Dee, I actually think he could make a good echo fighter for Kirby, especially since Kirby had that one custom move where he didn’t copy other fighters. I guess it all depends if Sakurai finds “Kirby without copy” to be an idea worth exploring.

Speaking of Waddle Dee, I actually think he could make a good echo fighter for Kirby, especially since Kirby had that one custom move where he didn’t copy other fighters. I guess it all depends if Sakurai finds “Kirby without copy” to be an idea worth exploring.

No no no no no no no. Please. Bandana Dee can't use any of Kirby's abilities in game so why should he have them in Smash. It would make no sense to make him an echo if he doesn't have his spear.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Shadow/Metal Sonic/Classic Sonic as an echo tois something I could accept

 

[Guybrush20X6]

No no no no no no no. Please. Bandana Dee can't use any of Kirby's abilities in game so why should he have them in Smash. It would make no sense to make him an echo if he doesn't have his spear.

More to the point, Waddle Dee doesn't have a mouth. Like, it's not an artistic thing like Dilbert where his mouth only appears when screaming, Waddle Dees literally don't have mouths.

Side note: I don't think we'll get echos for characters who already have clones like Fox or Marth. Makes me worry for Ninten tho...