"Echo Characters"

GM_3826

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#82
If we're getting more Echo Characters... well, there aren't many I'd want. I guess Chrom (Who I wouldn't want if it weren't for how Sakurai rubbed the fact that Robin and Lucina got included instead of him in his/our face) and Isabelle?
 

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#83
If we're getting more Echo Characters... well, there aren't many I'd want. I guess Chrom (Who I wouldn't want if it weren't for how Sakurai rubbed the fact that Robin and Lucina got included instead of him in his/our face) and Isabelle?
I'm imagining if Palutena's Guidance returns and Chrom is an Ike Echo.

Frederick: Now that Chrom's got his chance he can show you all for your mockery!
Viridi: Whatever, Jeeves. That doesn't change that he's a copy of Ike.
 

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#84
I know it's not too likely, but I'd love to see one of the Star Fox 2 girls become an echo fighter. I think with Krystal being an assist trophy it makes sense (Plus I just like them more than her, especially Miyu.)

 
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-crump-

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#85
I know people tend to get.... passionate... when the idea of another FE character comes up, but I would be all about Chrom getting in as an echo fighter. I will fully admit to being super biased because he’s my second favorite lord and I think Sakurai did him dirty, but I think this would be a good shot for him to officially join the Smash family.

Isabelle being an echo of Villager would be annoying since she has so much more potential and Villager’s moveset doesn’t really suit her, but I’d take that over nothing...
 
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Mobes

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#86
Haven't posted on Smash Boards in a while.. here I go:

I like the echo character distinction a lot, but it gets muddy real fast if you consider other existing characters that are similar to others but not considered an echo character. In my mind, any character that could be considered close enough to be a clone should officially be a echo character. I think Luigi, Dr. Mario, Falco, Wolf, Lucas, Toon Link, Young Link and Pichu should be considered echo characters. If they didn't change Ganondorf as much as it seems they have, I would've considered him an echo character as well. For me, echo character should stand for "alternative playstyle of this existing character with another character attached". The fact that only 3 characters are echo characters seems weird to me.

Uh, and they should make Alph an echo character. Don't hide characters behind costumes ;P (The Bowser Jr. gimmick works for me though)
 

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#87
I'm imagining if Palutena's Guidance returns and Chrom is an Ike Echo.

Frederick: Now that Chrom's got his chance he can show you all for your mockery!
Viridi: Whatever, Jeeves. That doesn't change that he's a copy of Ike.
Honestly though, this being the ultimate irony on Chrom's inclusion would be a riot to experience. :laugh:
 
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#88
Honestly, I didn't like the idea of "Echo characters." Why is Sakurai glorifying something people complain about? He should try to Luigify them a bit instead of labelling them as Echoes. I wanted Daisy in the game, but I wanted her to be inspired by the sports games and not a Peach clone. I don't like how they are numbered with an E after the original's number. They are their own fighters!
 

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#89
Honestly, I didn't like the idea of "Echo characters." Why is Sakurai glorifying something people complain about? He should try to Luigify them a bit instead of labelling them as Echoes. I wanted Daisy in the game, but I wanted her to be inspired by the sports games and not a Peach clone. I don't like how they are numbered with an E after the original's number. They are their own fighters!
It ultimately comes down to "it's this or nothing". It's better than half-***** recolorings, but not as good as a full-blown character.

If resources were infinite, we'd get everything we ever wanted. But at some point they have to cut ideas. While getting Daisy as a clone isn't exactly what I wanted, at least I got her. Y'know?
 

KingBroly

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#90
All Sakurai is doing is embracing Clone characters instead of running with them. He'd rather have as many characters as he can fit in there instead of unique play-styles.
 

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#91
All Sakurai is doing is embracing Clone characters instead of running with them. He'd rather have as many characters as he can fit in there instead of unique play-styles.
He's actually usually the proponent for only including them if he can make them unique in some way. But at some point in development you have to decide what resources to put where, and how to maximize what you have.

Also, this game has only three echo characters so far. Out of 65. That's less than half a percent.
 

Zinith

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#93
I just realized something. The original 12 may not get Echoes because they seem to be propped up as taking up the entire 1st row of the CSS and Echoes would ruin it.

Aw well, there goes my wish for Boshi...
 

MoonlitIllusion

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#94
For everyone asking about Doc and Yink, the reason why they are not echoes is because they play like the classics incarnation of Mario and Link from the first 2 games, while Link and Mario proper got moveset revamps over the years.
It's also worth noting that young link, along with pichu, doesn't share the same frame as Link meaning he wouldn't work as an echo even if they gave them the same moveset. He'd also require different stats like weight, speed etc which echoes also don't change.
 

KingBroly

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#95
I just realized something. The original 12 may not get Echoes because they seem to be propped up as taking up the entire 1st row of the CSS and Echoes would ruin it.

Aw well, there goes my wish for Boshi...
There's evidence to suggest that Dark Samus is going to be an Echo fighter for Samus. No Dark Samus colors, and Dark Samus hasn't appeared as an AT.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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#96
It depends on how echo fighters actually appear on the CSS. I’m still not convinced that they’re gonna have their own slot; it’s something about the way they’re branded, they don’t even get their own number!
 

ned_ballad

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#97
It depends on how echo fighters actually appear on the CSS. I’m still not convinced that they’re gonna have their own slot; it’s something about the way they’re branded, they don’t even get their own number!
When they were going through how characters are unlocked this time, Lucina appeared to have a normal CSS icon and was "unlocked" at a different time than Marth (before he was), implying that echo characters still seem to be treated as separate characters on the CSS
 
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Zinith

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#98
When they were going through how characters are unlocked this time, Lucina appeared to have a normal CSS icon and was "unlocked" at a different time than Marth, implying that echo characters still seem to be treated as separate characters on the CSS
The highlighted portion seems to be a stretch, but the rest I agree with
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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#99
When they were going through how characters are unlocked this time, Lucina appeared to have a normal CSS icon and was "unlocked" at a different time than Marth (before he was), implying that echo characters still seem to be treated as separate characters on the CSS
That is a fair counterpoint; I guess we’ll just have to wait and see :)
 

MoonlitIllusion

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It depends on how echo fighters actually appear on the CSS. I’m still not convinced that they’re gonna have their own slot; it’s something about the way they’re branded, they don’t even get their own number!
Marth being present in the E3 build with no Lucina in sight kinda tells us that they'll have their own slot, they'll just be next to the original character like how they're listed on the smash site. Sakurai has said that if a character has any kind of variation then they'll be given their own slot and I doubt that's changed.
 
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Altais

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I'll be surprised if Dark Samus isn't an Echo Figher, especially with Metroid Prime 4 in development. I see Octoling as likely, too, given Spatoon 2's popularity.

Personally, I would like to see Young Cricket from WarioWare as an Echo Fighter of Lucario. The only major difference is that Cricket's power stays the same, regardless of damage %.

Also, if Isaac makes it in the game, Felix should definitely be his Echo Fighter.
 

Lord-Zero

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I could see Dry Bowser being an echo fighter. Any differences that they have would simply be aesthetic, except for their Final Smashes.
Well, since he’s just a pack of bones, he could be a faster and lighter Bowser with blue or purple fire.

As for Eliwood as Roy’s Echo Fighter...Rapier as his default weapon, keeps the fire, tipper and Durandal FS.
 
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Gonna go ahead and post my Echo Fighter wishlist, though you guys have pretty much said all of them already:

Mario - Shoulda been Dr. Mario
Link - Dark Link
Samus - Dark Samus
Pikachu - Shoulda been Pichu
Ness - Ninten
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Impa - Sheik(Yes, Sheik should be the Echo)
Meta Knight - Galacta Knight
Olimar - Alph
Toon Link - Shoulda been Young Link
Snake - Big Boss
Sonic - Shadow
Bowser Jr. - All the Koopalings should count as Echo Fighters
Mega Man - Bass
Ryu - Ken
Cloud - Zack
Bayonetta - Jeanne

Funny to see, after all the hate Lucina and Dark Pit got for taking up character slots, that now everyone and their dog wants a bunch more echo fighters? But, while people are suggesting echo fighters they'd like to see, it would be nice if you explained why they would be an echo fighter and not an alternate costume or even a clone.
Personally, I would have been happier if all of these characters(including Young Link, Pichu and Dr. Mario) had just been alt costumes. But that ship has clearly sailed. Especially now that they've given their version of clones their own special name. So, I guess I'm just gonna go the other way and maybe hope the Echo Fighters get put in the same character slot or something.
 
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NintenEBB

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If Ninten does become an echo character I still hope he has PK Beam instead of PK Fire and the Eight Melodies instead of PK Starstorm, especially since Mother 1 didn't even have Starstorm as a move.
 
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All I really want as an Echo character is Ms. Pac-Man and that's the only one off the top of my head. Damn shame she wasn't an alt-costume to Pac-Man (IIRC)
 

Xeno610

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Echo characters is the fancy way of saying "clone characters." I believe they will have their own roster slots too, but they won't bloat interfere with development on other fighters. Past clone characters, like Pichu and Young Link, are being reworked as semi-clones by either having new moves or, in Young Link's case, rework the original character to something else.

As for who they could add, I think Chrom and Dark Samus are prime candidates so far. Chrom is mysteriously MIA so far and, to my knowledge, Dark Samus hasn't made an appearance as an Assist Trophy. I've also heard that Ike and Samus don't have Chrom and Dark Samus costumes respectively. Perhaps Chrom will be an echo for Ike (or even an entirely new character) and Dark Samus for Samus of course.
I would also like to mention that Dry Bowser could be an echo fighter, or even a semi-clone of Bowser with his Melee moveset.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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Another idea for an echo! New challenger approaching

So apparently with Pokémon Trainer back, Charizard still has Flare Blitz which means Rock Smash is gone from its moveset. A lot of Zard fans from Smash 4 are salty about this since the move was actually pretty important to competitive play with the character because of the super armor.

So to satisfy those fans, we could get an echo of just Charizard with Rock Smash as Down B and maybe throw in Dragon Rush if customs are gone.

And who would fit this role perfectly? mah boi Dragonite of course. Pair him up with Mewtwo for a classic Pokémon: The First Movie team. The Minnesota Vikings jokes are already rising up out of the ashes!
 

tirkaro

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I can only see them going HAM on echo fighters if they're treated as their own thing and don't get slots on the CSS, otherwise they're probably just gonna include the bare minimum and most people making giant lists of all the ones that make sense will be disappointed.

That aside, there are already a few smoking guns when it comes to obvious echo fighter choices (The Shadow AT being suspiciously absent in exchange for a Knuckles one, Samus losing her Dark Samus color in exchange for a black with yellow highlights suit, Diddy missing his tail attacks which were a common point of reference for the Dixie-can't-be-a-clone guys) so maybe they'll be more than I'm expecting, but it'd probably be a bad look to flood the CSS with minor variations.
 

Aetheri

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I don't see too many echo fighters happening tbh....we don't normally get that many clones because the devs usually focus on everything else then squeeze them in last minute.

These are the ones I can possibly see happening, maybe other characters instead but not much more than these.

-Alph
-Dark Samus
-Chrom
-maybe Impa
-maybe Isabelle
 

Mewtwo

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You guuuuuuuuuys...this thread is disturbing me and I still see so much confusion about what an echo fighter is as opposed to a clone. Please see my post on page 2!

TL;DR: Clones are clones, echo fighters are echo fighters. There is a reason Sakurai specifically only named 3 characters as echo fighters and it's because they're a slight upgrade from an alternate costume--different effects, properties, but ALL THE SAME MOVES, and generally same hitboxes (Lucina bends this rule). If you can't have ALL THE SAME MOVES then you're a clone (like Dr. Mario), and if you have significantly different enough hitboxes and potentially different animations, you're still a clone (Pichu).
Plus, echo fighters ALL likely got their origins as alternate costumes, as opposed to characters like Pichu and Ganondorf who were intended as separate characters (albeit clones) from the beginning.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Here's a question - we're throwing out loads of different ideas for echoes, but what would make them stand out as an echo character opposed to being an alt costume?

Example: Olimar and Alph are literal palette swaps, and have no differences at all. Peach/Daisy share moves, but have slight differences in animation or mechanics, but nothing major, while Fox/Falco share moves but have much larger differences in their mechanics.
 
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Decided to make a list of possible Echoes based on stuff that we know so far:

Shadow (since Knuckles was confirmed to be an assist trophy in Sonic's reveal video (and Shadow is currently MIA), this is his one last shot and chance to get in, not only is he an obvious choice (since he shares a lot of Sonic's moves and abilities, and having similar appearances), but he's also one of the most popular Sonic characters next to the Blue Blur himself and I cannot picture Sonic's series getting two AT reps before getting a 2nd character rep, if any 3rd-party franchise were to get a 2nd rep, that honor belongs to Sonic's with Shadow being that 2nd rep).

Ken or Akuma (Both have been Ryu's Echoes in the Street Fighter universe ever since their introductions (well until SFV for Ken, but Akuma is still Ryu's echo even to this day), I have a feeling we're probably going to get either one of the two and since Akuma is one of the most popular SF characters, he's a clear cut choice to get in over Ken (since Ken has lost that Echo status as of SFV) and since Akuma has crossed over into Tekken recently, it would be very obvious for him to join the Smash roster over Ken, however Ken can still be an alternate choice if Sakurai wants to represent the original Echo of Fighting games (plus it would give us the true Ken Combo system as well seeing as Ken became famous for it).

Ms. Pac-Man (Possible, but I got a feeling if we get another Namco rep, it'll probably be Heihachi Mishima from Tekken (since he was planned to be in Smash 4 as a DLC character but got scrapped because Sakurai couldn't figure out how to bring his Tekken gameplay to fit into the style of Smash Bros), but if Tekken doesn't gain a rep here, Ms. Pac-Man would be a alternate answer as Pac-Man's Echo.)

Can't really think of other Echo ideas! (aside from Dixie Kong and Dark Samus (both who have a higher shot to get in) and since Diddy lost all of his tail-based attacks, this is clearly paving for Dixie to get in (although her Up-B needs to be that famous ponytail copter).
 
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Mewtwo

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I admittedly don't know too much about Shadow but it seems plausible that he could become an echo fighter. However...if Ms. Pac-Man were going to be in the game I don't see how it would make sense to do anything other than have her as an alt like Alph.

I honestly don't anticipate we'll get too many echo fighters; I think Sakurai just gave them a fancy new name since so many people complained about how "lazy" new roster additions like Dark Pit and Lucina were. So this way, he's saying "look. they're not lazy additions, they're fancy alternate characters because they didn't necessarily need to be in the game and they wouldn't make sense as an alternate costume, so we made a few other appropriate changes for the characters in question and here you go, echo fighter."

And I predicted for a long time that if Daisy ever would get into Smash, it would be as an echo fighter like Dark Pit (though I didn't use that term, obviously). I don't think her inclusion is an indication that we'll get a bajillion echo fighters; we've been teased with a Daisy recolor for Peach for a long time, so Sakurai just upgraded it. That's all.
 

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There's evidence to suggest that Dark Samus is going to be an Echo fighter for Samus. No Dark Samus colors, and Dark Samus hasn't appeared as an AT.
Exactly, Dark Samus is a given right now, just for the fact that the Alt Color of Dark Samus was removed from Samus alts.
There's literally no reason they do this otherwise cause all the other colors are fine.

"It's to avoid confusion between Dark Samus AT and that alt color" if that's the case why was it in smash 4 to begin with.

I'm personally ok with this, I'm a huge Metroid fan and I'll I've wanted is more Metroid reps, we FINALLY got Ridley and while I always imagined Dark Samus with a unique moveset, I'll take what I can get.
 
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