"Echo Characters"

[PeridotGX]

Octolings I feel if anything will be DLC tbh.

I disagree. As we've seen with Melee Roy, clones can be added far after the deadline, and the Octolings would require even less work then him. Also it was mentioned in the direct that revealed Smash that 2018 is the "Year of the Octoling". And other than the Octo Expansion, we've seen nothing to really justify it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well actually 8 more will bring us to 80 according to the website, which currently lists 72 fighters(Mii's are counted on their own). If pokemon was 3 then it would be 82.

80 does sound like a nice number to end on though No shantae on your list makes me sad though

Indeed that's how I think it should go for Base and its a perfectly rounded number. Also thanks for the correction. I was never that good at math in school.

As for Shantae. If anything I'd think she'll make it as DLC if she were to make it.

 

[zferolie]

Indeed that's how I think it should go for Base and its a perfectly rounded number. Also thanks for the correction. I was never that good at math in school.

As for Shantae. If anything I'd think she'll make it as DLC if she were to make it.

I work with computers all day and I still hate math

DLC I'll be fine with. I just want her in the game

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I disagree. As we've seen with Melee Roy, clones can be added far after the deadline, and the Octolings would require even less work then him. Also it was mentioned in the direct that revealed Smash that 2018 is the "Year of the Octoling". And other than the Octo Expansion, we've seen nothing to really justify it.

Reason I really say that though is because they're still relatively too new and all that. Same reason how Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as well as Rex might get into the game as DLC.

 

[zferolie]

Reason I really say that though is because they're still relatively too new and all that. Same reason how Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as well as Rex might get into the game as DLC.

I can see Spring man and Ribbon Girl either being Echos, or being like RObin and Corrin. Still, I would enjoy them in the game but they and Rex would be DLC for sure.

... Though honestly I want Twintelle

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can see Spring man and Ribbon Girl either being Echos, or being like RObin and Corrin. Still, I would enjoy them in the game but they and Rex would be DLC for sure.

... Though honestly I want Twintelle

I personally do believe we will be getting Spring Man and Ribbon Girl for sure for the same reason as Rex.

 

[PeridotGX]

Reason I really say that though is because they're still relatively too new and all that. Same reason how Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as well as Rex might get into the game as DLC.

I doubt Sakurai had everything 100% planned out the day the project plan was done. He could've decided to add the Octolings rather late into development due to upcoming relevance and ease of adding (Literally just change the hair and weapon design of the Inklings and you're good). Also I'm pretty sure Roy was requested to be added by the FE Devs to advertise the new game (over in Japan), who's saying the same thing couldn't happen with the Splatoon Devs wanting to promote the Octo Expansion?

 

[zferolie]

I personally do believe we will be getting Spring Man and Ribbon Girl for sure for the same reason as Rex.

Normally I would say they would be in the next smash, but I have a feeling we won't get a new smash till the next system, and thats at least 6-7 years away. In the meantime Nintendo will be supporting this game long term with DLC, so I feel that they would add ARMS characters and Rex and Pyro as early to mid DLC because of this.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I doubt Sakurai had everything 100% planned out the day the project plan was done. He could've decided to add the Octolings rather late into development due to upcoming relevance and ease of adding (Literally just change the hair and weapon design of the Inklings and you're good). Also I'm pretty sure Roy was requested to be added by the FE Devs to advertise the new game (over in Japan), who's saying the same thing couldn't happen with the Splatoon Devs wanting to promote the Octo Expansion?

Fair point I suppose.

 

[Diem]

Things to keep in mind:

• We're already at 9 newcomers: 5 full characters, 4 Echo Fighters. The least amount of newcomers we've had in a game is 14 (Melee) followed by Smash 4 at 15 (17 if you count Echo Fighters). I doubt that Ultimate will come close to surpassing either of them, so we're probably due for only two more full newcomers and maybe one or two more Echo Fighters.
• The project plan for Ultimate was finalized in December 2015, likely with all the Echo Fighters as well. Octolings weren't in any way prominent in Splatoon back then, as they were just an occasional enemy type in the single player. They only became prominent with the Splatoon 2 expansion that came out earlier this year, which likely wasn't even a conceived yet in 2015.
• Newcomers in Ultimate seem to be heavily based on fan requests, from the official ballot or elsewhere. Hence, Ridley, Simon, Dark Samus, Chrom, and K. Rool. Inkling and Isabelle are more based on general popularity than on specific requests. Octolings don't really fit within those criteria.
• In Splatoon, Octolings are functionally equivalent to Inklings. They use all the same weapons and abilities, only differing aesthetically. They'd make more sense as an alt costume, rather than an Echo Fighter, where they'd have to be given some arbitrary differences.
• ARMS and Xenoblade 2 didn't come out until 2017, 1-2 years after the project plan was completed. The only times that characters have ever been planned/added before a game's release have been with Roy and Greninja. Roy was easy to put in because he was a Marth clone, and Greninja was from Pokémon, Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. Games like ARMS and Xenoblade aren't nearly as popular, and wouldn't be as simple to implement.
• Late additions happened with the clones in Melee because the game only had a 13 month development cycle. The only late additions in Brawl were Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff, as well as Sonic. TL and Wolf were possible because they could clone some elements from other fighters, and Jigglypuff was already a veteran. Sonic was added late because they didn't have permission until late due to Sega changing their minds. As far as we know, the only late additions to Smash 4 were the Echo Fighters, because they were made into new characters by using much less effort than any other kind of character. As such, it seems that late additions are becoming less and less common, and with DLC having been exercised in Smash 4, it's likely any late-planned characters would be DLC, rather than being rushed out in the vanilla game. We already saw this with Mewtwo in Smash 4, as he wouldn't be finished in time for release, so they held him off for later as DLC.
• Sakurai has said that development on Ultimate is going more smoothly than past titles, and Smash 4 also went more smoothly than previous titles, so it's unlikely than any late additions or disruptions to development have occurred.

Nothing is impossible, but keep expectations reasonable.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Things to keep in mind:

• We're already at 9 newcomers: 5 full characters, 4 Echo Fighters. The least amount of newcomers we've had in a game is 14 (Melee) followed by Smash 4 at 15 (17 if you count Echo Fighters). I doubt that Ultimate will come close to surpassing either of them, so we're probably due for only two more full newcomers and maybe one or two more Echo Fighters.
• The project plan for Ultimate was finalized in December 2015, likely with all the Echo Fighters as well. Octolings weren't in any way prominent in Splatoon back then, as they were just an occasional enemy type in the single player. They only became prominent with the Splatoon 2 expansion that came out earlier this year, which likely wasn't even a conceived yet in 2015.
• Newcomers in Ultimate seem to be heavily based on fan requests, from the official ballot or elsewhere. Hence, Ridley, Simon, Dark Samus, Chrom, and K. Rool. Inkling and Isabelle are more based on general popularity than on specific requests. Octolings don't really fit within those criteria.
• In Splatoon, Octolings are functionally equivalent to Inklings. They use all the same weapons and abilities, only differing aesthetically. They'd make more sense as an alt costume, rather than an Echo Fighter, where they'd have to be given some arbitrary differences.
• ARMS and Xenoblade 2 didn't come out until 2017, 1-2 years after the project plan was completed. The only times that characters have ever been planned/added before a game's release have been with Roy and Greninja. Roy was easy to put in because he was a Marth clone, and Greninja was from Pokémon, Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. Games like ARMS and Xenoblade aren't nearly as popular, and wouldn't be as simple to implement.
• Late additions happened with the clones in Melee because the game only had a 13 month development cycle. The only late additions in Brawl were Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff, as well as Sonic. TL and Wolf were possible because they could clone some elements from other fighters, and Jigglypuff was already a veteran. Sonic was added late because they didn't have permission until late due to Sega changing their minds. As far as we know, the only late additions to Smash 4 were the Echo Fighters, because they were made into new characters by using much less effort than any other kind of character. As such, it seems that late additions are becoming less and less common, and with DLC having been exercised in Smash 4, it's likely any late-planned characters would be DLC, rather than being rushed out in the vanilla game. We already saw this with Mewtwo in Smash 4, as he wouldn't be finished in time for release, so they held him off for later as DLC.
• Sakurai has said that development on Ultimate is going more smoothly than past titles, and Smash 4 also went more smoothly than previous titles, so it's unlikely than any late additions or disruptions to development have occurred.

Nothing is impossible, but keep expectations reasonable.

It should be noted that Octolings are extremely popular in the Splatoon community, and have been since the first game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So why are there so many youtubers and others just thinking Shadow and Ken are the only Echos left happening?

Because we're running out of time. There's possibly only one more Smash Direct happening before release, and they're probably not going to announce 10+ echo characters during it.

I'm sure we'll get more as DLC, but 2-3 more echos for launch seems like it's probably about right.

 

[JarBear]

From what Sakurai has said, there does not seem to be many characters left to be announced ... which we do not know if that means new comers or new comers + echoes. Regardless, the number will be small.

However, if there is to be DLC, Echo characters would probably be the focus. The roster is pretty big which already makes balancing quite difficult. But Echo characters would be "relatively" easy to implement since they take less time and are largely based on an established fighter ... so balancing would be much easier in comparison.

Time will tell.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

On one hand, it's true that we may have not much characters left... But what if we don't have much announcements left?

I mean, I believe it's the first option, considering Sakurai's comment. There was more time between E3 and the Smash Direct than the Smash Direct and Isabelle. But it's maybe a way to say that we won't be showered with newcomers continuously... Doesn't really mean there's can't be a bunch of character in one direct.

Also, we have to take in account how echoes reveal are "small". They are not underwhelming in any way, but Daisy didn't really have a proper trailer, and Chrom / Dark Samus leave not much space for build-up during their "cheaper" trailers. The FE stage and the Metroid music were big hints right before they show up.

So... Again I don't really believe it but what if we have not much "real newcomers" left? I don't expect 10 echoes either of course.

On the matter of DLC, echoes are also a nice opportunity to give characters at a cheaper price than other characters. After all, veterans had a different price than the newcomers, and Corrin, without a stage, was cheaper than other newcomers too.

 

[zferolie]

Because we're running out of time. There's possibly only one more Smash Direct happening before release, and they're probably not going to announce 10+ echo characters during it.

I'm sure we'll get more as DLC, but 2-3 more echos for launch seems like it's probably about right.

Thats the thing, Sakuari said not too many more trailers, and Echos haven't gotten any trailers, so I feel Sakurai is talking about unique newcomers, not echos when he says that, so I think its safe to guess at least 4 more echos coming. It doesn't seem like her counters them as heavyily as unique newcomers.

On one hand, it's true that we may have not much characters left... But what if we don't have much announcements left?

I mean, I believe it's the first option, considering Sakurai's comment. There was more time between E3 and the Smash Direct than the Smash Direct and Isabelle. But it's maybe a way to say that we won't be showered with newcomers continuously... Doesn't really mean there's can't be a bunch of character in one direct.

Also, we have to take in account how echoes reveal are "small". They are not underwhelming in any way, but Daisy didn't really have a proper trailer, and Chrom / Dark Samus leave not much space for build-up during their "cheaper" trailers. The FE stage and the Metroid music were big hints right before they show up.

So... Again I don't really believe it but what if we have not much "real newcomers" left? I don't expect 10 echoes either of course.

On the matter of DLC, echoes are also a nice opportunity to give characters at a cheaper price than other characters. After all, veterans had a different price than the newcomers, and Corrin, without a stage, was cheaper than other newcomers too.

I don't ecpect 10 more echos either. I am thinking somewhere between 4-7 more coming.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Thats the thing, Sakuari said not too many more trailers, and Echos haven't gotten any trailers, so I feel Sakurai is talking about unique newcomers, not echos when he says that, so I think its safe to guess at least 4 more echos coming. It doesn't seem like her counters them as heavyily as unique newcomers.



I don't ecpect 10 more echos either. I am thinking somewhere between 4-7 more coming.

That's probably still too many, in general I honestly think we're only gonna get maybe 6 characters(echo included) at most, when we were told that we won't get too many fighters that also might apply to them as well.

 

[zferolie]

That's probably still too many, in general I honestly think we're only gonna get maybe 6 characters(echo included) at most, when we were told that we won't get too many fighters that also might apply to them as well.

its possible yeah. I think 8 its probably the least we are getting(echos included) as 80 is divisible by 4 and works better for smash down. 4 uniques and 4 echos. thats what I would bank on for few remaining characters.

Can it be less? sure. I just rather expect more, as even if we get less I'm still happy for the current roster. I think people expecting less though are just depressing or unhyping themselves, which I feel is not a good thing

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

its possible yeah. I think 8 its probably the least we are getting(echos included) as 80 is divisible by 4 and works better for smash down. 4 uniques and 4 echos. thats what I would bank on for few remaining characters.

Can it be less? sure. I just rather expect more, as even if we get less I'm still happy for the current roster. I think people expecting less though are just depressing or unhyping themselves, which I feel is not a good thing

Well I'm not being depressed(you have no idea how hyped I'm for Ultimate) I just trying to have realistic expectations especially when we're getting so close to the end.

 

[zferolie]

Well I'm not being depressed(you have no idea how hyped I'm for Ultimate) I just trying to have realistic expectations especially when we're getting so close to the end.

Maybe depressed was the wrong word. I just see these youtubers and when they say 5 more characters they sound so upset or sad with it.

I think its perfectly realistic to think 8 more as well myself.

 

[Pizza Robo]

If they make a Echo Fighter versions of Squirtle,Ivysaur,and Charizard they should use
Oshawott ,Grotle,and Dragonite

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

If they make a Echo Fighter versions of Squirtle,Ivysaur,and Charizard they should use
Oshawott ,Grotle,and Dragonite

But why would we need them
Keeping with 4 echoes idea some I think are
Shadow over Sonic
Ken over Ryu
Ninten over Ness

 

[Guynamednelson]

If they make a Echo Fighter versions of Squirtle,Ivysaur,and Charizard they should use
Oshawott ,Grotle,and Dragonite

Since Oshawott is the only one of those who are more popular than the original (in Japan), and you had to use a Pokemon that's not a fire type let alone a fire starter, it should just be Oshawott as a Squirtle semiclone without the PT's gimmicks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wish all three of PT's pokemon were separate without PT's gimmicks...

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I think the echo fighters we're going to get is definitely Ken(he was the original clone of fighting games) and probably Shadow(he played pretty much like Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2) I believe Ms. Pac Man would be good for Pac Man though this one is less likely.

I see quite a few here saying that Dixie might be an echo of Diddy which I used to be okay with but after being on her support board for a while and the inclusion of Isabelle, I truly feel that Dixie would have to be a least a semi clone to be in character, her ponytail shouldn't be ignored which is something Diddy can't do also it would look too weird for her to do cartwheels and Dk's up b would still require her own animation since Dk's model is drastically different.

This poll also has a lot of people believe that she wouldn't work that way either.
https://smashboards.com/threads/pol...nk-should-be-a-unique-fighter-instead.458042/

 

[zferolie]

I think the echo fighters we're going to get is definitely Ken(he was the original clone of fighting games) and probably Shadow(he played pretty much like Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2) I believe Ms. Pac Man would be good for Pac Man though this one is less likely.

I see quite a few here saying that Dixie might be an echo of Diddy which I used to be okay with but after being on her support board for a while and the inclusion of Isabelle, I truly feel that Dixie would have to be a least a semi clone to be in character, her ponytail shouldn't be ignored which is something Diddy can't do also it would look too weird for her to do cartwheels and Dk's up b would still require her own animation since Dk's model is drastically different.

This poll also has a lot of people believe that she wouldn't work that way either.
https://smashboards.com/threads/pol...nk-should-be-a-unique-fighter-instead.458042/

Sadly, if Dixie is not an echo, she's not getting in the game, at least not at base. Echo is her ONLY chance at getting in base right now.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Sadly, if Dixie is not an echo, she's not getting in the game, at least not at base. Echo is her ONLY chance at getting in base right now.

Well in that case I rather her be dlc then since she would potentially be more unique like she should be. Even then the whole roster hasn't been leaked yet(not even by Verg) so I'm not giving up my hopes yet.

 

[zferolie]

Well in that case I rather her be dlc then since she would potentially be more unique like she should be. Even then the whole roster hasn't been leaked yet(not even by Verg) so I'm not giving up my hopes yet.

And thats fine. I wouldn't mind Dixie as DLC if she would be a semi-unique like Isabelle. I just was saying the only was she is in base is if she is an echo, which I am also ok with.

And yeah, anyone who thinks its only what Verg says its crazy. He hasn't leaked half the cast, he can easily have missed a bunch more

 

[MrElectroG64]

I wish all three of PT's pokemon were separate without PT's gimmicks...

If your wish is for the reason of being able to have echo fighters of each individual pokemon, then it could technically still be possible with the ability of replacing moves ala Chrom. Then again, we don't have any definitive move rules on echoes still, so who knows if (at least in charizard's case) the returning down special from smash 4 could come back.

 

[Quillion]

I'm still hoping for Classic Link as an echo of Link. I think it would be a perfect opportunity to bring back Link's Smash 4 moveset for those who want a more "traditional" Link and/or want Adult Link's heavier stats and left-handedness.

Heck, they should make Classic Link the default design while having OoT Link and TP Link as alts with their own voices (a la PoR and RD Ike). Not only do we have the Classic Link design, but we have the Link designs used in Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.

 

[DarthEnderX]

By Classic Link do you mean Zelda 1/LttP Link? Because he seems like he's much closer to Young Link's age/size than he is BotW Link's.

 

[Quillion]

By Classic Link do you mean Zelda 1/LttP Link? Because he seems like he's much closer to Young Link's age/size than he is BotW Link's.

The ALBW iteration of the design may be too short, but I think the ALttP GBA design could pass for being as tall as BotW Link. The height difference can be worked around like the two Ike designs or the two WFT sexes.

Additionally, the Link in Zelda 2 was 16, so there's that to work off of.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Zelda 2, sure. But when I think "Classic Link" I think Zelda 1 and LttP, and when I think of those, I think of Young Link.

I think a better Echo for BotW Link would be TP Link, SS Link, or even Adult OoT Link.

Edit: Actually, no, Young Link is already OoT link, so not him.

 

[RileyXY1]

Reason I really say that though is because they're still relatively too new and all that. Same reason how Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as well as Rex might get into the game as DLC.

While the Octolings were introduced in Splatoon 1, they weren't anything important. They did get fleshed out in the sequel, but it came out in 2017 and might be considered "too new" to get in. They can get in as DLC though.

 

[Quillion]

Zelda 2, sure. But when I think "Classic Link" I think Zelda 1 and LttP, and when I think of those, I think of Young Link.

I think a better Echo for BotW Link would be TP Link, SS Link, or even Adult OoT Link.

Edit: Actually, no, Young Link is already OoT link, so not him.

Classic Link can be ALttP Link, OoT Link, and TP Link at the same time through alts.

Just give ALttP Link the ALBW voice and remove the wind effect from TP's boomerang, and everything works out.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just don't think of adult Link when I think of "Classic Link". The only game where he looks older is Zelda 2 and that's the least popular one.

I guess looking at the artwork, LttP link DOES look more like adult Link, he just doesn't in-game.

 

[Pizza Robo]

Since Oshawott is the only one of those who are more popular than the original (in Japan), and you had to use a Pokemon that's not a fire type let alone a fire starter, it should just be Oshawott as a Squirtle semiclone without the PT's gimmicks.

I couldn't think of a Fire Starter that would play like Charizard besides MegaCharizard X

 

[7NATOR]

Just came here to say my guys, Shadow No Echo...It's looking likely he might be the newcomer revealed potentially next week October, Which i came to this conclusion through hints, Past trends, and etc

Unique Shadow, no echo, No TWO Spindashes, my dudes

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Just came here to say my guys, Shadow No Echo...It's looking likely he might be the newcomer revealed potentially next week October, Which i came to this conclusion through hints, Past trends, and etc

Unique Shadow, no echo, No TWO Spindashes, my dudes

Well what a small world we live in...do you have any proof of this? Also try telling that to the discussion board, my god some people just are so ignorant...
Shadow does have potential but I'm not sure if they'll allow a third party to get more than an echo, I might be wrong though.

 

[7NATOR]

Well what a small world we live in...do you have any proof of this? Also try telling that to the discussion board, my god some people just are so ignorant...
Shadow does have potential but I'm not sure if they'll allow a third party to get more than an echo, I might be wrong though.

People thought Third Party Series couldn't get a 2nd rep in general, but that changed with Richter, it's definitely possible for a 3rd party series to get a 2nd unique rep, and Sonic is definitely the one to get one

on topic of Shadow potentially being the October Reveal, the previous Smash games have had Sonic Related Content revealed in Early October. Sonic was revealed in Brawl on the 10th, and he was revealed on the 1st in Smash 4. I feel this trend might continue, so It's looking lke a real possiblity that Shadow will be revealed next Week, if there is a direct next week, especially if it's on the 10th, to cash in on the 11th anniversary of sonic's Brawl Reveal


Sakurai seems to have been hinting at Shadow too. Talking about "Slowing down reveals" mentioning how the game is "Chaos" (im talking about the Isabelle article)...Chaos Control, Slowing down time

There was also that Blog post that had Sonic wielding the Scythe. Sonic hasn't been seen in a blog post since late July, and the Blog post he's in has him holding a Scythe that has a Shadowy, Black aura around it. Potential hint towards the Shadow the Hedgehog game

As for him being unique, Shadow definitely has the requests, popularity, moveset material, and different personality from Sonic to get his own moveset, i don't see Isabelle being the only Semi-clone in the game

That's all

 

[SonicMario]

Sakurai seems to have been hinting at Shadow too. Talking about "Slowing down reveals" mentioning how the game is "Chaos" (im talking about the Isabelle article)...Chaos Control, Slowing down time

There was also that Blog post that had Sonic wielding the Scythe. Sonic hasn't been seen in a blog post since late July, and the Blog post he's in has him holding a Scythe that has a Shadowy, Black aura around it. Potential hint towards the Shadow the Hedgehog game

...Seriously, wat. Those are SUPREME stretches as hints.