"Echo Characters"

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Honestly, after thinking about it for a while, I would really like Gardevoir in as an Echo fighter. I don't think she has much of a chance but I'd thinks she'd be a good fit for a zelda or mewtwo echo.
Sorry for the double post!

I'd be down for Gardevoir to rep Gen III, but not as an echo fighter of a character from a series she has no connections with (Mewtwo is pretty plausible at best as part of his moveset involves his tail, how is Gardevoir going to echo that? Hit opponents with her dress?)
 
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Dragon lord

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Super Shadow with Chaos Powers is entirely doable (mostly Spear during the dashing portion and then when right before he turns back to normal does Chaos Blast).

Plus him gaining fire effects on all of kicks would be pretty neat as well as adding in sweetspots for said effects.
it's possible sure, but the time coding that in could be used to make a more useful move (like the teleport), and if that can't be done out of some arbitrary rule, it kinda feels like doing shadow would be a waste of time, not even mentioning time spent on other things like licencing, checking if every animation is approved by sega etc
 
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it's possible sure, but the time coding that in could be used to make a more useful move (like the teleport), and if that can't be done out of some arbitrary rule, it kinda feels like doing shadow would be a waste of time, not even mentioning time spent on other things like licencing, checking if every animation is approved by sega etc
If Shadow has Chaos Control as an Up-B move, then he's no longer Sonic's echo in my book, even if Chaos Control were to have the same effect as Sonic's Spring Jump.

Unless he uses Chaos Control to pop a Spring right underneath him, then it be Chaos Spring Jump!
 
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Sorry for the double post!

I'd be down for Gardevoir to rep Gen III, but not as an echo fighter of a character from a series she has no connections with (Mewtwo is pretty plausible at best as part of his moveset involves his tail, how is Gardevoir going to echo that? Hit opponents with her dress?)
I think most people think a gardevoir echo would be a zelda echo. I think a mewtwo echo works better, you'd just have to give some of her attacks different animations, but similar hitboxes i guess?

personally I like a mewtwo echo idea because of alternate special moves based on mewtwo's moveset :p Down b is hypnosis, not disable and puts the opponent to sleep. Side b is Psychic/Dream eater. If used on a non-sleeping opponent is just shoves them away. If used on sleeping opponent, it drains health! Up b would be teleport, but travels farther but is slightly slower. and Neutral B would be moonblast. It moves slower than shadowball, but is more powerful.

i have no idea how this would work out in practice, and it might make her awful. But eh. :)

that being said, I would prefer Gardevoir to be a unique fighter on the 00.01% chance she gets in ;')
 
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Dragon lord

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I think most people think a gardevoir echo would be a zelda echo. I think a mewtwo echo works better, you'd just have to give some of her attacks different animations, but similar hitboxes i guess?

personally I like a mewtwo echo idea because of alternate special moves based on mewtwo's moveset :p Down b is hypnosis, not disable and puts the opponent to sleep. Side b is Psychic/Dream eater. If used on a non-sleeping opponent is just shoves them away. If used on sleeping opponent, it drains health! Up b would be teleport, but travels farther but is slightly slower. and Neutral B would be moonblast. It moves slower than shadowball, but is more powerful.

i have no idea how this would work out in practice, and it might make her awful. But eh. :)

that being said, I would prefer Gardevoir to be a unique fighter on the 00.01% chance she gets in ;')
The thing is, Gardevoir's body structure fits Zelda more, so it's easier to make, with Mewtwo you basically need to redo every animation, which would be harder and therefore go against what echoes are made for, unless they start doing half echoes or something, being half Zelda echo and half Mewtwo echo
 
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that's fair. I like the idea of a zelda!Gardevoir too. I just don't think zelda's specials fit with gardevoir. Or her lightning kicks. But then again No one would have though ganon would have fought like falcon in smash so yeah.

In the end, whether she's an echo or not i'd just like her in smash :). That's all that's really important to me i guess. :)
 
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PlasmWraith

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I think most people think a gardevoir echo would be a zelda echo. I think a mewtwo echo works better, you'd just have to give some of her attacks different animations, but similar hitboxes i guess?
This hasn't been established by Sakurai or anything, but so far each of the echoes are only echoing someone in their own series, clones didn't follow this but it's worth considering. If echoes do take the same slot as who they're based on, or if they're situated next to them, then you have to wonder where an echo from another series would go on the CSS.
 

ZTurtle

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I don't think that Gardevoir as a Mewtwo Echo is really feasible because Gardevoir's lack of a tail and different proportions would mean they'd have to totally redo a bunch of animations, and rework the skeleton. That seems to go against the entire reason Echoes are a thing, which is that they're very easy to implement because they can just put them on top of an existing character with minor edits.

Gardevoir as a Zelda Echo I could see, but we don't know if cross-series Echoes are going to be a thing, which seems unlikely given the fact that all of the current Echoes are very much connected to their base character in some fashion (Dark Pit is a literal clone of Pit, Lucina impersonated Marth and is his descendant, and Peach and Daisy seem to be best friends and are always paired up together in spin-offs).
 
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Dragon lord

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I don't think that Gardevoir as a Mewtwo Echo is really feasible because Gardevoir's lack of a tail and different proportions would mean they'd have to totally redo a bunch of animations, and rework the skeleton. That seems to go against the entire reason Echoes are a thing, which is that they're very easy to implement because they can just put them on top of an existing character with minor edits.

Gardevoir as a Zelda Echo I could see, but we don't know if cross-series Echoes are going to be a thing, which seems unlikely given the fact that all of the current Echoes are very much connected to their base character in some fashion (Dark Pit is a literal clone of Pit, Lucina impersonated Marth and is his descendant, and Peach and Daisy seem to be best friends and are always paired up together in spin-offs).
Considering Ganondorf in melee, if a character is popular enough (remember Ganondorf was actually the most popular character in Japanese character polls) and they have a build like a character on the roster, it could happen
 

ZTurtle

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Considering Ganondorf in melee, if a character is popular enough (remember Ganondorf was actually the most popular character in Japanese character polls) and they have a build like a character on the roster, it could happen
True, but I still think it's unlikely. Possible for sure, but I just think it would be kind of weird to see an unrelated character to being placed next to a base character on the website with the same number and everything.

Besides, Melee didn't give its clones any particular distinction to point out how their clones were derived from another character unlike Echoes. And it's worth noting how the alternate trophies for the clones in Melee mention their base characters (Like Falco's mentions Fox and so on), but Ganondorf's doesn't, just talking about his general playstyle without mentioning Captiain Falcon at all. So while it could happen, I'm a bit doubtful, especially in the case of Gardevoir.
 
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Dragon lord

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True, but I still think it's unlikely. Possible for sure, but I just think it would be kind of weird to see an unrelated character to being placed next to a base character on the website with the same number and everything.

Besides, Melee didn't give its clones any particular distinction to point out how their clones were derived from another character unlike Echoes. And it's worth noting how the alternate trophies for the clones in Melee mention their base characters (Like Falco's mentions Fox and so on), but Ganondorf's doesn't, just talking about his general playstyle without mentioning Captiain Falcon at all. So while it could happen, I'm a bit doubtful, especially in the case of Gardevoir.
Actually, melee did, the roster placed Ganondorf right next to Captian falcon, they did this for all the clones actually, also the roster in ultimate is sorted by those numbers so your gonna have stuff like what you said anyway
 
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ZTurtle

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Actually, melee did, the roster placed Ganondorf right next to Captian falcon, they did this for all the clones actually, also the roster in ultimate is sorted by those numbers so your gonna have stuff like what you said anyway
Ah, you got me there. I will say though that they don't call attention to it the same way they do with Echo Fighters, and the clones still aren't treated any differently from any other fighter. But to reiterate, I'm still skeptical, but I can agree that it's possible.
 
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LimeTH

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I'm surprised that people like the idea of cross-series echoes considering the Ganondorf's moveset semi-fiasco.
If it makes sense for the character and they're similar enough, why not? Ganondorf was a different matter since he's such an iconic character with his own skillset to pull from the source material and they just slapped him on a slower Captain Falcon. Something like, I dunno, Dr. Eggman over Bowser Jr makes more sense since they both use flying mech pods and gadgets.

Not saying I WANT Eggman to be a BJ echo (give him his own moveset!) but it's a good example.
 

Dragon lord

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Speaking of Ganondorf and falcon clones, the only Echo i'd seriously want would be Black shadow, even if there not gonna make him that different or say make him basically a ported melee ganon (with the Knee instead of melee ganon's Fair), i'd still like him as a echo

i think he is a bit taller then falcon, but then again marth and peach are taller then lucina and daisy in game so i don't think it's that bad if black shdaow was a bit taller
 
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Quillion

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Speaking of Ganondorf and falcon clones, the only Echo i'd seriously want would be Black shadow, even if there not gonna make him that different or say make him basically a ported melee ganon (with the Knee instead of melee ganon's Fair), i'd still like him as a echo

i think he is a bit taller then falcon, but then again marth and peach are taller then lucina and daisy in game so i don't think it's that bad if black shdaow was a bit taller
Normally, I'd talk down on this decision and say it's a stupid idea considering Ganondorf's moveset is fun on the character it's already on and very fitting as is...

...BUT since I find myself missing the elbow, high kick, and double kick Smashes despite the sword being more canon to Ganondorf's canon, I do support Black Shadow as an Echo now. It would be a nice full-circle deal, plus they can bring back Gerudo Dragon as a potential move for Black Shadow.
 

Dragon lord

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Normally, I'd talk down on this decision and say it's a stupid idea considering Ganondorf's moveset is fun on the character it's already on and very fitting as is...

...BUT since I find myself missing the elbow, high kick, and double kick Smashes despite the sword being more canon to Ganondorf's canon, I do support Black Shadow as an Echo now. It would be a nice full-circle deal, plus they can bring back Gerudo Dragon as a potential move for Black Shadow.
My Ideal hope for a black shadow echo would just be: Melee Ganon But with the knee (maybe some buffs but you get the idea), Melee Ganon is the most viable and popular Ganon incarnation in smash so having it back would be pretty fun, and it mean for future games we can improve Ganon even more without worry of people missing the old playstyle
 

Quillion

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My Ideal hope for a black shadow echo would just be: Melee Ganon But with the knee (maybe some buffs but you get the idea), Melee Ganon is the most viable and popular Ganon incarnation in smash so having it back would be pretty fun, and it mean for future games we can improve Ganon even more without worry of people missing the old playstyle
...I would miss Ganondorf being a puncher. Black Shadow would just be a painful reminder of what once was if Ganondorf is "improved." As I said, I'm missing the old Smashes already.

That said... Black Shadow being the incredibly meaty yet deceptively quick punisher is still an appealing idea.
 
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Here’s an idea: a Pokemon Trainer Echo Fighter called League Champion!
Instead of the starters that Pokemon Trainer is known for, League Champion would have powerful Pokemon commonly seen in the League.

This could be a perfect opportunity to represent the big leagues of the Pokemon games, as well as a long-standing tradition, the Pokemon League!
(I don’t know whether this idea is stupid or not...)
 
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ZTurtle

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Here’s an idea: a Pokemon Trainer Echo Fighter called League Champion!
Instead of the starters that Pokemon Trainer is known for, League Champion would have powerful Pokemon commonly seen in the League.

This could be a perfect opportunity to represent the big leagues of the Pokemon games, as well as a long-standing tradition, the Pokemon League!
(I don’t know whether this idea is stupid or not...)
This would be kinda cool, but an Echo for the PKMN Trainer would need three Pokemon that can match Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard's movesets almost one to one, not the Trainer himself. And since Squirtle and Ivysaur's moves are pretty tailored to their specific bodies (Squirtle having moves that have him withdraw in his shell, Ivysaur using moves that involve spinning his leaves around, etc), I don't think there are any Pokemon that could be an easy Echo for them. And while Charizard's moves are slightly more basic as a fire breathing dragon, I don't think there are any other draconic Pokemon that matches its body perfectly... other than technically Mega Charizard X I guess.
 
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Dragon lord

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i mean considering all the pokemon have there own number, a Echo of one individual one may not be out of the question, wouldn't mind A Zard X echo of Charizard, i know many people are upset that there not solo anymore
 

MoonlitIllusion

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i mean considering all the pokemon have there own number, a Echo of one individual one may not be out of the question, wouldn't mind A Zard X echo of Charizard, i know many people are upset that there not solo anymore
That would require a change of down special though which echoes can't have, plus echoes are supposed to generally play the same, removing 2 whole characters from their moveset would be a massive change
 

Dragon lord

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That would require a change of down special though which echoes can't have, plus echoes are supposed to generally play the same, removing 2 whole characters from their moveset would be a massive change
well, Again the number counts all Pokemon as separate, so a echo of Zard (35 ε) would only need to play similar to Zard? Does switching even count to Zard's moveset?, guess?, it's kinda confusing
 
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Dreamking

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I can see Ninten as an Ness which is more likely than Giygas being playable. I really want Giygas as a playable character though. I would prefer a Lugified Mewtwo over being a pure echo in which they share regular attacks and throws with different particle effects but he had Earthbound based specials and Final Smash.

I do think we need Mother 1 representation to complete the trilogy. It's just that I prefer Giygas to be that rep.

Too bad that having both is unlikely.
 
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That would require a change of down special though which echoes can't have, plus echoes are supposed to generally play the same, removing 2 whole characters from their moveset would be a massive change
For the sake of Argument, In Zard's case, Just putting Rock Smash as the Down B should still Qualify it as an Echo of Fighter 35. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Igglybuff as Jiggly echo plz
I still say Snorlax would fit better, but he wouldn't have the multiple jumps, and be a super heavy weight instead.

I also would want Charizard X as a Echo to Charizard, so that it can give us a feeling of having a 'solo Charizard' on the roster. He might need a total new Down B though.

Impa as a Sheik Echo is also a super sexy idea. And I also want Chrom, and a couple of other Fire Emblem characters that would fit, as Echo.

DON'T DARE BRING UP DIXIE IN MY PRESSENCE OK
 

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Gardevoir's got no definitive moveset outside of using psychic powers, being protective and the Pokedex calming black hole powers.

With enough imagination you can Echo Fighter quite a few Smashers into Gardevoir

Gardevoir ε-z :ultzelda:

No specific moveset alterations needed outside of Phantom Slash's animations.
B: Reflect/Light Screen
B-Side: Will O' Wisp
Up-B: Teleport
Down-B: Gallade

FINAL SMASH: Black Hole- Triforce of Wisdom but circular

Gardevoir ε-p :ultpalutena:

Gardevoir has no staff but moves using it can summon a vortex of psychic energy in it's stead. The two moves that use the shield can use a reflect barrier.

B: Magical Leaf
B-Side: Moonblast
B-Up: Teleport
B-Down: Reflect

Final Smash: Black Hole + Hyperbeam- What it says on the tin.

Gardevoir ε-r :ultrosalina:

The one that would need the most alterations, Gardevoir doesn't have a Luma equivelent by itself BUT there are a couple of solutions.

A. There is no Luma and like Lucina to Marth, Gardevoir has damage and knockback values changed to be user friendly Rosalina
B. Gardevoir teams up with Minior, a Gen 7 Pokemon that seems to be Game Freak's version of the Luma

Solo moveset

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Disarming Voice
B-Up: Fling
Down-B: Trick

With Minior

B: Iron Head
B-Side: Power Gen
B-Up: Fling
B-Down: Trick

Gardevoir ε-m :ultmewtwo:

One that makes sense on the surface but would need some alterations. The tail attacks would need to be reanimated to either use a vague psychic limb to strike people with or use it's dress to strike instead.

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Confusion
B-Down: Teleport
B-Down: Imprison (Disable with different name)
 
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Eldrake

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And while Charizard's moves are slightly more basic as a fire breathing dragon, I don't think there are any other draconic Pokemon that matches its body perfectly... other than technically Mega Charizard X I guess.
While not super perfectly, Flygon matches Charizard's body reasonably well. While I don't think Flygon has a chance even as an echo, it might be a valid candidate as an echo fighter for Charizard.
 

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I wish people would stop trying to make Pokemon nobody cares about happen just because they have the same vague shape as some other character...
I don't think Gardevoir would make a good echo, but I would hardly call it someone nobody cares about. It's hugely popular.

On the topic of crazy Pokémon echo ideas, Blaziken for Falcon? It wouldn't seem too outlandish for it to be using Falcon's Moves, and it's pretty popular.
 

Quillion

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Again, you can't just add any character to pad out the roster. They need to actually be important, and that applies to Echoes as much as unique fighters do.

Pokémon has a cast of 720 potential fighters, but you can't have a representative from every evolutionary family.
 

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Again, you can't just add any character to pad out the roster. They need to actually be important, and that applies to Echoes as much as unique fighters do.

Pokémon has a cast of 720 potential fighters, but you can't have a representative from every evolutionary family.
Blaziken isn't a nobody, he's the fire starter from Gen 3 and pretty popular, especially when the ballot was going on. He was among the first Pokken characters revealed, and got a Mega in X/Y (Before Sceptile and Swampert).
 
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I'm a huge fan of Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo fighter. Someone who could play nearly identically to Pac-Man, but is still important enough on their own to be worthy enough of a player slot. Kind of the perfect candidate for the concept of what an Echo character should be.

Her one difference would reflect her own game, and that's the "fruit" she throws out 'Cherry, Strawberry, Orange, Pretzel, Apple, Pear, Banana', with the new fruits having new gameplay properties. The pretzel could fly in a pretzel shaped trajectory, the pear could act like a timed grenade, and the banana could have the properties of the new banana gun weapon, and explode on impact, which would make for a nice Key replacement as a final powerful fruit item.

Of course, they'd have to give her unique animations and such too, and maybe her taunt sprites could be different (would be EXCELLENT if they referenced Midway arcade games, but since she's a full Namco character now, I'd only expect more Namco things). And I'd hope they'd keep her look classic, no gaping mouth when she's not in her chomping form, just a little smile with her lips. Also, she's gotta have the lashes, the bow, the mole, the heels, maybe even the long gloves. Really give her that iconic Ms. Pac-Man look, because, well, she is an icon herself separate from Pac-Man, and many gamers from the arcade days would certainly see her as a worthy addition to Smash Bros.
 
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