East Coast Discussions: For Or Against the MK Ban.

[Glick]

Eh I wouldn't care. I certainly would be interesting though.

You should ban TL though. I have no idea how to beat him with jigglypuff. lmao.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Ban ROB. At least MK dies and attacks.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

I've yet to hear this from any of the good MKs or BlackWaltz, so I don't really believe you. You also only lose to the best ones in the world and you still beat Forte, so I don't know why you'd say this.

so yea... ever thought that maybe your just wrong? MK is in the worse three characters to play against... if not the worse

andy g... play a good luigi like boss... luigi has the advantage, i would say marth, wigi, and MK for worse match ups... peach is probably still there but its not an issue for me so meh



As far as banning of MK...
i would personally like him to be banned, i think it would be better for the community and people would enjoy the game more. when people go to tournies now... its how do i beat these top players... and MK. MK forces a non-MK player to truly be better then the MK user in my opinion.

Player A uses MK
Player b uses other
if player A and B are both rated 5... player A wins
if player A is a 5, and player B is a 6... player A wins
if player A is a 5, and player B is a 8... player B may win


a character should not skew results as much as MK does., you need several hours to deal with one hour of a MK players training just because he's so good... and snake being MK's counter... i still don't get why people think this... its not like mk can get snake off the edge and gimp him... wait, he can... its not like mk can juggle snake, my bad... wrong again. and clearly the best snake in North America beats the best MK in North America... i think thats also a negative. so even though snake is understood as the 2nd best character... he still gets ***** by MK of an equal caliber. so i personally want him banned, however since he will nvr be banned, i understand that complaining and whining about it will get me no where as a player and my options are to either become better then the MK user or use MK myself... and this should be the mind set of anyone that plays brawl at a competitive level... like any fighter played at a competitive level... weather or not a broken character is in a game is irrelevant... what matters is if that character can be used at the even you will be going to, and what will you do if that character can be used.... quit, complain and play, use the character, or get better and shut up..... those are pretty much your options

and the thought that if MK gets banned we will just want the next character banned and then we would go down the line... thats bullsh*t
Akuma was banned, and then that was it, if we wanted other characters banned we would say so now, the comunity is not so weak that we just want the game easier for everyone... we just want the game fair and truly skill based... this is all. so we wouldn't take the approach of "hey we got the broken character banned, lets go after the next best" m come on now... can we get a lil more credit

 

[JCaesar]

I totally agree, every other character has multiple bad matchups, even Snake.

But this is still a pointless argument. Even with the MK-banned tourneys we've had in MD/VA, which a lot of people enjoyed more than a standard tourney, the smash community as a whole still refuses take the idea seriously, because they're afraid of what other people might think.

Oh well. Brawl+ FTW!

 

[Bladewing]

clearly the best snake in North America beats the best MK in North America... i think thats also a negative. so even though snake is understood as the 2nd best character

i don't know about everything else you said but for this part it might be that m2k is better than ally. I mean there is a possibility of that.

 

[CT Chia]

option 1: everyone drop brawl and play brawl+
option 2: all the cool ppl start bannign mk like MD/VA and PA. itl be forced to spread lol

either option works
but i like option 1 the most

in brawl+ it feels like THE BETTER PLAYER WINS. people can overcome bad matchups with tech skill and smart thinking and everything is amazing. if u dunno ur character in brawl+, u get ***** and punished. practice and tech skill really show through in that game. zomg its so perfect i cant stop talking about it

 

[crismas]

option 1: everyone drop brawl and play melee
option 2: all the cool ppl start bannign mk like MD/VA and PA. itl be forced to spread lol

either option works
but i like option 1 the most

in melee it feels like THE BETTER PLAYER WINS. people can overcome bad matchups with tech skill and smart thinking and everything is amazing. if u dunno ur character in melee, u get ***** and punished. practice and tech skill really show through in that game. zomg its so perfect i cant stop talking about it

Fixed.

XDDD

 

[Inui]

I totally agree, every other character has multiple bad matchups, even Snake.

But this is still a pointless argument. Even with the MK-banned tourneys we've had in MD/VA, which a lot of people enjoyed more than a standard tourney, the smash community as a whole still refuses take the idea seriously, because they're afraid of what other people might think.

Snake's counters are all mythological. He doesn't have any. I'll debate you about any of them and prove you wrong.

It's not that I'm afraid of what people might think. Do I let you people dictate what I do? Nope. I'm New Jersey's best/most active host, so I tend to control what rules are used up there, so MK's never getting banned. And it's because he's a beatable character with multiple nearly-even match-ups.

so even though snake is understood as the 2nd best character... he still gets ***** by MK of an equal caliber.

Damn, I must be way better than Forte, Seibrik, teh_spamerer, Plank, dmbrandon, Shadow, and every other top MK I have beaten/gone even with when I used Snake!

 

[Deez.]

this is P~S

thats the general rule... playing gay also works (not saying you play gay, although i know you have in the past) they could have also had a bad day

 

[Mew2King]

snake is not the 2nd best character lol. Diddy wario olimar and falco imo are just as good if not better than him. MK is clearly the best but not by that much. Most top players are against him being banned, so if you wanna ban him at specific tourneys feel free to, but then when you travel OOS (and to big tourneys) you will have no MK experience and probably lose to them. MK is also a fun character who makes brawl not lame and adds depth to the game, opposed to a lot of other characters strategies which is just spam projectiles or charge your fart while moving back and forth safely like a jigglypuff.

btw no offense to ally or anything but I've mastered MK a lot more than he's mastered snake. He still has a lot of horrible habits that I don't have because he didn't play melee competitively.

 

[Deleted member]

SWF is self-labeled as a competitive Smash community. MK isn't going anywhere.

 

[Dotcom]

Well now that we see where this is going. I'llchange the topic in a few days to say if this garners anymore discussion.

Any idea on what people want to discuss next?

 

[AllyKnight]

M2K, you play while you're sleeping, you cheat. I can't do that. And I'm getting you at Apex! ( of course prob not!)

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Well now that we see where this is going. I'llchange the topic in a few days to say if this garners anymore discussion.

Any idea on what people want to discuss next?

Like I said, lets ban ROB.

 

[Thirtyfour]

I give this like a few more hours before becoming a thread about camping, planking w/e.

 

[strawhats]

Holy **** m2k actually posted on SWF after like 2 weeks.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I give this like a few more hours before becoming a thread about camping, planking w/e.

I mentioned ROB twice, it already has.

 

[Bladewing]

M2K, you play while you're sleeping, you cheat. I can't do that. And I'm getting you at Apex! ( of course prob not!)

you can't say that without adding the link!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mK0XWzAwig

 

[_Yes!_]

Discussion about skill-less unfair tactics

I'm not going to complain about something like planking/camping because I do it too; I'd rather deal with something less talked about and something that could realistically happen and be enforced. Before anyone says I'm being biased about this, I'll say this: Yes, I'm being biased about this.

It is completely unfair to render two otherwise decent characters in the game, Fox and Wolf, utterly useless because of skill-less garbage, such as Sheik's ftilt lock, Pikachu's chain grabs, ZSS's down smash lock. There is no skill whatsoever in these "techniques," so anyone can just random CP a Fox/Wolf player and **** them without even knowing what's going on. I could understand the whole "don't get hit" philosophy if the price for getting hit wasn't an automatic zero to death, but this is just silly.

Is it too much to ask to ban these things? The only difference this would make is to allow two more characters to be viable. TOs: please take this into consideration.

 

[BakiThaG]

I'm not going to complain about something like planking/camping because I do it too; I'd rather deal with something less talked about and something that could realistically happen and be enforced. Before anyone says I'm being biased about this, I'll say this: Yes, I'm being biased about this.

It is completely unfair to render two otherwise decent characters in the game, Fox and Wolf, utterly useless because of skill-less garbage, such as Sheik's ftilt lock, Pikachu's chain grabs, ZSS's down smash lock. There is no skill whatsoever in these "techniques," so anyone can just random CP a Fox/Wolf player and **** them without even knowing what's going on. I could understand the whole "don't get hit" philosophy if the price for getting hit wasn't an automatic zero to death, but this is just silly.

Is it too much to ask to ban these things? The only difference this would make is to allow two more characters to be viable. TOs: please take this into consideration.

Do you realize that techs like this make the game more competitive?
i think everyone should have a secondary to aviod this type of situation

 

[SnowballBob33]

Snake's counters are all mythological. He doesn't have any. I'll debate you about any of them and prove you wrong.

fox counters snake

There is no skill whatsoever in these "techniques," so anyone can just random CP a Fox/Wolf player and **** them without even knowing what's going on. I could understand the whole "don't get hit" philosophy if the price for getting hit wasn't an automatic zero to death, but this is just silly.

Is it too much to ask to ban these things? The only difference this would make is to allow two more characters to be viable. TOs: please take this into consideration.

2 things
1: this is what brawl+ is for
2: when you learn matchups you learn how to avoid stuff, meaning no random person can cp and beat me. zss dsmash isnt that serious, a good fox wont get hit unless you trip, now shiek is a little harder but still possible, pika should be limited becuz that leads to death. if you ban pika's cg on fox though, you HAVE to ban icies cg becuz it spikes and is infinite, then u gonna wanna ban falcos lazers and a lot of stuff, which eventually leads to cf dittos the whole tourney

but i am 4 banning mk, or making like a brawl++ with all the same stuff as regualr brawl but with fairer mk

 

[slikvik]

snake is not the 2nd best character lol. Diddy wario olimar and falco imo are just as good if not better than him. MK is clearly the best but not by that much.

liar...lie moar

And it's because he's a beatable character with multiple nearly-even match-ups.
:

you too. I'll give you snake and diddy but thats it

 

[_Yes!_]

Do you realize that techs like this make the game more competitive?
i think everyone should have a secondary to aviod this type of situation

rendering two otherwise decent characters obsolete isn't competition that's just unfair. YES I CAN HOLD FORWARD A FOR A MINUTE AND KILL YOU LOL...I main snake, secondary fox/wolf.

fox counters snake



2 things
1: this is what brawl+ is for
2: when you learn matchups you learn how to avoid stuff, meaning no random person can cp and beat me. zss dsmash isnt that serious, a good fox wont get hit unless you trip, now shiek is a little harder but still possible, pika should be limited becuz that leads to death. if you ban pika's cg on fox though, you HAVE to ban icies cg becuz it spikes and is infinite, then u gonna wanna ban falcos lazers and a lot of stuff, which eventually leads to cf dittos the whole tourney

but i am 4 banning mk, or making like a brawl++ with all the same stuff as regualr brawl but with fairer mk

1) Brawl+ is irrelevant to this discussion.
2) Be realistic. I was talking about good players I know. I'm pretty sure if I was in a set with someone good, who is smart, can beat a fox/wolf just by knowing what ***** them.
3) IC's have crappy range and are easy to separate. When you have to get in to attack sheik/pika, you will get ftilt locked/grabbed.
4) There's nothing wrong with a Falcon ditto tournament.

I'm not asking to ban lazers, tornadoes, planking, or anything stupid. I'm asking to ban a skill-less zero to death that makes fox/wolf not viable/safe to use.

 

[Turbo Ether]

When it comes down to it, if winning is all you care about, maining MK is the most logical thing you can do.

Also, i'm down for trying out Brawl+, but I have to get an SD card and learn how to set it up, my Wii is already modded!

 

[Thirtyfour]

Gonna quote a youtube guy from a 3rd Strike vid

hageshiku (8 months ago) +5

tiers are not a matter of belief. thats like saying pawns are just as good as queens you just need to practice. players get better not pieces. in every fighting game to ever exist some characters are fundamentally stronger than others.

 

[Rocann]

andy g... play a good luigi like boss... luigi has the advantage, i would say marth, wigi, and MK for worse match ups... peach is probably still there but its not an issue for me so meh

I just saw this gem for the first time. why would you assume that I've never played a good luigi? And did I ever say that luigi DOESN'T have the advantage? it's like you say that, then you come in and do the same thing that I said about luigi (how it's not really a problem for me, and I HAVE played plenty against biglou) about peach.

but yes marth and MK are definitely the worst 2 to play against; it's arguable which is worse. Peach/Luigi are about the same. At least I'm not the one assuming that I would win against the best peach like you did for azen, I don't even know who the best luigi is

 

[Pyronic_Star]

wwell, this would mean i'll get to mm his peach again.... i'ma win it this time

and u implied that luigi isn't a counter when you said you don't know where that came from...

 

[Max Ketchum]

I'm in full agreement with Yes!, the 0-deaths on the spacies are skilless and ********.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Fixed.

XDDD

I am teh_spamerer and I approve of this fix.

 

[KevinM]

I approve of Spam's approving.

 

[_Yes!_]

Actual conversation I had with Kai.

[20:56] yes2good9487: have you ever used sheik before in your life
[20:56] SetoKaiba97321: no
[20:57] yes2good9487: and you tried out the ftilt lock right
[20:57] SetoKaiba97321: yes
[20:58] yes2good9487: how long did it take you to successfully do it, and how difficult was it?
[20:59] SetoKaiba97321: it took 20 sec to do it and it was easy. isnt that the point of bull**** tactics lol?
[21:01] yes2good9487: yes but this is pretty much a guaranteed zero to death on fox/wolf. so do you think this should be a game deciding factor allowed in tourney, if anyone can pick up a character and learn such simple and deciding tactics?
[21:02] SetoKaiba97321: no, i dont think it should be allowed
[21:13] yes2good9487: mind if i put that convo on smashboards
[21:13] SetoKaiba97321: nope, go right ahead

The typical response from people who disagree with me will probably be to invalidate Kai's opinion. Kai's an intelligent person. Now that that's out of the way. Someone who never used sheik, learned how to zero-death fox/wolf in 20 seconds and found it easy. This shouldn't be a deciding factor in tournaments.

 

[SnowballBob33]

hmmm, i really dont know what to say. i would like for it to be banned or something, but then its like you are not forced to pick fox or wolf, which leads to people just picking mk to counter everyone and back to my first idea that mk should be banned. every person needs a couple of bad matchups, which mk doesnt have. id like to try it out to see how much tourney results change

so what do we do about it? if we mess with her ftilt with hax and stuff too much then it makes her worse of a char, but if we change fox and wolf then we have diferent chars. if we let it go then fox/wolf get gayed and if we ban it then....how would we enforce a ban like that? u cant do fitlt more than 3 times in a row? 30%?

 

[Fyist]

Ban NJ from using MK... problem SOLVED!!!!!!

 

[Ryan-K]

pyronic star i'd hate to rain on your parade but maybe boss ***** you with luigi because he is way better than you, just a thought.

also stop *****ing already, snake beats mk, if you don't like the game then don't play it, and how the **** do people get off suggesting playing "brawl+" as a solution what the ****, that's not a solution that's a copout you tools.

 

[Max Ketchum]

I nominate Ryan K for best posts on SWF 2009.

 

[_Yes!_]

Ryank's pretty cool but Metaknight beats Snake. Other then that his posts are superb.

 

[Ryan-K]

Ryank's pretty cool but Metaknight beats Snake. Other then that his posts are superb.

I've been out of the loop a while

 

[_Yes!_]

No worries. You're definitely not missing out on anything dude xD. Opinions about snake and metaknight change quickly for most people because they always talk about that matchup since they're the only characters that matter

 

[Kaiber Kop]

pyronic star i'd hate to rain on your parade but maybe boss ***** you with luigi because he is way better than you, just a thought.

also stop *****ing already, snake beats mk, if you don't like the game then don't play it, and how the **** do people get off suggesting playing "brawl+" as a solution what the ****, that's not a solution that's a copout you tools.

Brawl + is a dumb idea and I don't care much for banning mk. Idc if hes allowed or not, however I don't agree that if something like an instant kill on a character is availible that it should be allowed and then the logic used is that if you dont like it, dont play the game. If thats the case then I see no reason why DDD cant standing infinite everyone in tourny.

Anyway, it would be hard to enforce an alternate solution for wolf/fox vs sheik or pika that everyone is going to agree on.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I think the Ftilt lock on Wolf/Fox is fine, actually. Everyone should just go MK anyway, and really gay the tourney scene up.