Dr. Mario

[Berrial]

His current move-set should be transferred to Mario, then proceed to remove doc from the game.

 

[Kidney Thief]

Why does a costume need costumes?

I don't know what you're on but I want some

 

[Wazygoose]

I feel about him the same way as Dark Pit and Lucina. Should have just been costumes. We can just make our own clones using changes in costumes, custom moves, and stat-changing equipment. Why were they even added when they would have basically been in the game already anyway? It's inconsistent seems so arbitrary and unnecessary, it's like clones and costumes were decided with a dart board. Unjustified.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

I can't fathom the argument of making these characters (Dark Pit, Dr. Mario and Lucina) alt costumes instead of taking up a spot on the character select screen. Personally, I think it's an extremely stupid argument.

They would have still been playable and they could have had the same attributes and attacks to boot (like Doc's tornado instead of FLUDD) so the only difference is that Sakurai and his team took the extra time to make them their own taunts, entrances, victory poses and their own spot on the select screen.

Do I feel Dr. Mario is justified? Yes.

 

[Wazygoose]

I can't fathom the argument of making these characters (Dark Pit, Dr. Mario and Lucina) alt costumes instead of taking up a spot on the character select screen. Personally, I think it's an extremely stupid argument.

They would have still been playable and they could have had the same attributes and attacks to boot (like Doc's tornado instead of FLUDD) so the only difference is that Sakurai and his team took the extra time to make them their own taunts, entrances, victory poses and their own spot on the select screen.

Do I feel Dr. Mario is justified? Yes.

Hopefully I'm not the only one, but I'm really confused and don't know what you meant to say. Are you saying Doc is justified to be a separate clone because he was basically no extra work? Or something else?

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

I'm saying that Dr. Mario's different enough IMO to be his own character (moveset from Melee, attributes).

 

[Folt]

I'd say that having Dr. Mario a a character, rather than an alt is probably for the best. Seeing Dr. Mario use fireballs or the FLUDD would be really jarring, and with Mario changing his Down Special from Mario Tornado to FLUDD (with tornado still appearing as a normal attack), Dr. Mario could be used to keep old Mario's moveset in spirit and his other properties (like the way pills work and f-smash being electric) makes his "cloned" moveset stand out in comparison to most other clones.

Seriously, I think both Mario's old and new movesets have a place in Smash and getting Dr. Mario as a playable clone is a good answer to this.

Also, I suspect that Sakurai always intended for Dr. Mario to be a clone character in 4 as opposed to being an alt of Mario as Dr. Mario already had the changes needed to get a roster spot from Melee (Megavitamins, electric f-smash, other moves getting different properties like nair and fair) besides keeping the Dr. Tornado as his Down Special.

 

[meleebrawler]

Looks like you can still do continuous jabs by holding A.

 

[Booster]

Why does a costume need costumes?

That's the best thing I've read on this thread, I agree!

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's confirmed in the Doc gameplay general that Doc has reverse NAir from Melee, as in his gets stronger the longer it's out. The most unique Nair in Smash. SLOT EARNED WE DONE HERE

 

[Folt]

It's confirmed in the Doc gameplay general that Doc has reverse NAir from Melee, as in his gets stronger the longer it's out. The most unique Nair in Smash. SLOT EARNED WE DONE HERE

Excellent! Dr. Mario's Nair is all sorts of fun.

 

[Kidney Thief]

It's confirmed in the Doc gameplay general that Doc has reverse NAir from Melee, as in his gets stronger the longer it's out. The most unique Nair in Smash. SLOT EARNED WE DONE HERE

This is awesome in so many ways. Is his Fair still like melee or a spike now?

 

[Spinosaurus]

This is awesome in so many ways. Is his Fair still like melee or a spike now?

I saw Zero use it, it's like Melee's.

 

[Booster]

No way is he justified. He could've been fit in as an alternate costume like he was in Project M with Aesthetics being altered exclusively for the costume. Project M's Doctor Mario costume shows how Sakurai could've had him in the game without wasting a slot. The only nice thing I can say about him is that he doesn't have Fludd, but it ends there.

See, for the costume you can alter the Fireballs into Pills and add in the sound effects like in Project M. Alter the Cape Color to White, give him electricity for his Smash attacks (As an effect of course), I mean did Sakurai even consider this? Instead we get 8 more alternate costumes for Mario and he calls it a character. God damn...

 

[Kidney Thief]

No way is he justified. He could've been fit in as an alternate costume like he was in Project M with Aesthetics being altered exclusively for the costume. Project M's Doctor Mario costume shows how Sakurai could've had him in the game without wasting a slot. The only nice thing I can say about him is that he doesn't have Fludd, but it ends there.

See, for the costume you can alter the Fireballs into Pills and add in the sound effects like in Project M. Alter the Cape Color to White, give him electricity for his Smash attacks (As an effect of course), I mean did Sakurai even consider this? Instead we get 8 more alternate costumes for Mario and he calls it a character. God damn...

Alternate costumes means the moves will be the same

 

[Booster]

Alternate costumes means the moves will be the same

Did you not see Dr. Mario in Project M? He got his moves altered and they worked the same.

 

[Folt]

Electricity and fire add rather different properties to a move, like how fire immediately sets off explosive crates and electricity multiply freeze-frames. They'd also affect what kind of Pikmin is immune against it if I remember correctly. Such differences (as well as things like Dr. Mario's Nair's stronger-the-longer-it's-out which would look out-of-place on Mario) would affect the battle records and is reason enough to give him a spot.

 

[Kidney Thief]

Did you not see Dr. Mario in Project M? He got his moves altered and they worked the same.

Yes but in smash 4 his moves are different therefore your alternate costume idea doesn't work sorry

 

[LancerStaff]

No way is he justified. He could've been fit in as an alternate costume like he was in Project M with Aesthetics being altered exclusively for the costume. Project M's Doctor Mario costume shows how Sakurai could've had him in the game without wasting a slot. The only nice thing I can say about him is that he doesn't have Fludd, but it ends there.

See, for the costume you can alter the Fireballs into Pills and add in the sound effects like in Project M. Alter the Cape Color to White, give him electricity for his Smash attacks (As an effect of course), I mean did Sakurai even consider this? Instead we get 8 more alternate costumes for Mario and he calls it a character. God damn...

Lol, Sakurai has never saw SSB as slots. Only character's spot the good doctor took was Alph, who could of been a bad idea to clone for many reasons.

Did you not see Dr. Mario in Project M? He got his moves altered and they worked the same.

Is this PM?

 

[Booster]

Lol, Sakurai has never saw SSB as slots. Only character's spot the good doctor took was Alph, who could of been a bad idea to clone for many reasons.



Is this PM?

**** this I'm done with this dog **** thread, you guys won't see reason.

 

[LancerStaff]

**** this I'm done with this dog **** thread, you guys won't see reason.

I'm not the one who's censoring up a storm. Sakurai has outright said SSB isn't about slots, and this isn't even a sequel to PM. Your argument is moot until you back it up, which is impossible.

 

[GunGunW]

Would I prefer Dr. Mario to give his move set and costume to regular Mario? Yes.

Does Dr. Mario being his own character bother me? No.

Out of the three last minute clones, I wouldn't say he's as welcome of an addition as Lucina is, but he's also someone I can deal with being here. Without him, Dark Pit would bother me a lot more than he already does.

 

[Kidney Thief]

**** this I'm done with this dog **** thread, you guys won't see reason.

I hope you get to fight many Dr. Marios in your smash career

 

[Twewy]

Green and purple. Nice.

 

[Folt]

Green, black, and purple! Awesome!

 

[Deleted member]

Not much gameplay wise related, but i'm glad they even gave him his Melee idle animations and all, dat badass neck stretching and those new taunts.

Only thing I'm truly disappointed about: no unique victory theme.
Rosalina gets one from Super Mario Galaxy, but Dr. Mario doesn't get a remix of this?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I ranted a little angrily yesterday here in another thread on this section, but if I was to express my standpoint on Dr. Mario in a reasonable way, I'll just copy-paste my thoughts from another thread, as there I was civil:

Dr. Mario is buffed Mario again. He was probably included for fans of Melee Mario's moveset, but Sakurai probably still doesn't know that F.L.U.D.D. is still an almost useless move while Dr. Tornado will always have a good use. Dr. Mario's fair still sends opponents upwards, so unlike regular Smash 4 Mario's fair he doesn't need to use it near ledges to KO and can use it anywhere he wants. His Megavitamins are still a more useful projectile because of their better trajectory and that they space better, making regular Mario's fireballs seem useless by comparison. And his throws are much better save d-throw, which Mario now has over Dr. Mario. Really, all these changes could have been done to regular Mario to make him a better character, because as it stands when comparing the two, Dr. Mario is always gonna be more useful. Thanks to Sakurai's careless reimplementation of him from Melee, he became the version of Mario that makes the other look obsolete once again, and I hate that.

Along with this, some people have pointed out that pills do less damage, but that's irrelevant because they were used for harassing and spacing, not necessarily building up damage.

I was ready to have Dr. Mario come back balanced against Mario, and not outclass him, but as it stands it doesn't look that way. I'm disappointed, because if Sakurai was gonna pretend Dr. Mario should be a separate character, the least he could have done was make him distinct in a balanced way. Unfortunately, even though Namco Bandai was helping with balancing, they seem to have made an oversight here, so I have to conclude that his inclusion was not justified.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I don't mind Dr. Mario's presence one bit since I loved using him in Melee. It's simply the fact that Mewtwo was not included alongside him that bugs me. I mean, it seems like it SHOULD of happened, but didn't.

 

[LancerStaff]

I ranted a little angrily yesterday here in another thread on this section, but if I was to express my standpoint on Dr. Mario in a reasonable way, I'll just copy-paste my thoughts from another thread, as there I was civil:



Along with this, some people have pointed out that pills do less damage, but that's irrelevant because they were used for harassing and spacing, not necessarily building up damage.

I was ready to have Dr. Mario come back balanced against Mario, and not outclass him, but as it stands it doesn't look that way. I'm disappointed, because if Sakurai was gonna pretend Dr. Mario should be a separate character, the least he could have done was make him distinct in a balanced way. Unfortunately, even though Namco Bandai was helping with balancing, they seem to have made an oversight here, so I have to conclude that his inclusion was not justified.

It's a bit early to say Dr. Mario is completely better. Mario's Dair is better then Dr's Dspecial from what I'm hearing, and Pit and DP have fairly different playstyles from what I've saw.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

It's a bit early to say Dr. Mario is completely better. Mario's Dair is better then Dr's Dspecial from what I'm hearing, and Pit and DP have fairly different playstyles from what I've saw.

Well, even still, Dr. Mario's Dr. Tornado can be used to help his recovery if not for attacking. That's the primary reason people were sad to see it gone in Brawl and Smash 4, because it nerfed him. In the competitive scene the Tornado was rarely used for attacking anyway.

Just from comparing the two, Dr. Mario just has a more useful down special. I don't think anyone can deny that, and while F.L.U.D.D. might have a niche use, it might just be another Falcon Punch-type attack where it will only be used for style points rather than being the best option available. F.L.U.D.D. is used for pushing, which both Mario and Dr. Mario already accomplish with their capes and back airs, which is why I say that.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, even still, Dr. Mario's Dr. Tornado can be used to help his recovery if not for attacking. That's the primary reason people were sad to see it gone in Brawl and Smash 4, because it nerfed him. In the competitive scene the Tornado was rarely used for attacking anyway.

Just from comparing the two, Dr. Mario just has a more useful down special. I don't think anyone can deny that, and while F.L.U.D.D. might have a niche use, it might just be another Falcon Punch-type attack where it will only be used for style points rather than being the best option available. F.L.U.D.D. is used for pushing, which both Mario and Dr. Mario already accomplish with their capes and back airs, which is why I say that.

I've heard that the Dr. Tornado is useless for recovery, not that I've seen it.

 

[Folt]

Well, even still, Dr. Mario's Dr. Tornado can be used to help his recovery if not for attacking. That's the primary reason people were sad to see it gone in Brawl and Smash 4, because it nerfed him. In the competitive scene the Tornado was rarely used for attacking anyway.

Just from comparing the two, Dr. Mario just has a more useful down special. I don't think anyone can deny that, and while F.L.U.D.D. might have a niche use, it might just be another Falcon Punch-type attack where it will only be used for style points rather than being the best option available. F.L.U.D.D. is used for pushing, which both Mario and Dr. Mario already accomplish with their capes and back airs, which is why I say that.

FLUDD is also a projectile. Mario doesn't have to get close to the opponent to push them which is at times preferable to getting into their faces.

I've heard that the Dr. Tornado is useless for recovery, not that I've seen it.

Might explain why most videos with the good doctor don't have him use the Dr. Tornado to rise up.

 

[StarLight42]

This is my stance on Dr. Mario.

If Mario had his Melee moveset and no FLUDD, I wouldn't need Dr. Mario in this game, I wouldn't be against him, but I wouldn't need him.

However, Mario does have FLUDD and his Brawl moveset, and while I still will play Mario, Dr. Mario will be my primary main because he's the closest to how Mario was in Smash 64 and Melee, and personally, Smash 64/Melee Mario is my favorite Smash character, so basic, yet effective, and Dr. Mario emulating Mario's feel from the old games makes me so happy he is back for this game.

 

[Kidney Thief]

I ranted a little angrily yesterday here in another thread on this section, but if I was to express my standpoint on Dr. Mario in a reasonable way, I'll just copy-paste my thoughts from another thread, as there I was civil:



Along with this, some people have pointed out that pills do less damage, but that's irrelevant because they were used for harassing and spacing, not necessarily building up damage.

I was ready to have Dr. Mario come back balanced against Mario, and not outclass him, but as it stands it doesn't look that way. I'm disappointed, because if Sakurai was gonna pretend Dr. Mario should be a separate character, the least he could have done was make him distinct in a balanced way. Unfortunately, even though Namco Bandai was helping with balancing, they seem to have made an oversight here, so I have to conclude that his inclusion was not justified.

It's wayyyyyyy too early to say Doc is better than Mario. Let's wait a few months. To be honest I'd main Doc even if Mario was slightly better

 

[Pink!]

I really like the pink, black, purple, and green colors!

 

[Kero the Invincible]

Call me spiteful, but with all the melee-fa fans harping about wanting Roy and Mewtwo back for literal YEARS, the fact that both were ignored in favor of the other melee veteran is a most glorious troll indeed. I can understand getting attached to certain characters, but I've always figured any amount of time spent complaining could be better spent working with what I've got. (And also it wouldn't really change anything anyway....)

It does seem a bit odd that he got in over Wolf or Lucas, but it's not really day-ruining. Heck, Wolf was my favourite of the Starfox trio, but if they felt the need to trim things down, Wolf was the one to cut. (I think we can all agree that cutting Falco would be.....messy.) Lucas at least seems to live on in Ness' custom moves.


As for whether the Doc is "justified" or not, I like to think of it this way;

If Dr Mario/Lucina/Dark Pit were simply alternate costumes that gave slight move-set differences when selected, would anyone be complaining? Probably not, or at least not as much. If anything, they might be thankful the developers added in such a cool little option at the last minute. But, because the above 3 happen to take up that sacred slot on the character select screen, people suddenly feel infringed upon, "Why'd they add in ____ when they could've added ___?" Even though it's likely a completely separate issue.

Long story short, I have no problem with the Doc's inclusion. I'll probably try him out along with everyone else when the game comes out.

 

[Xinc]

It's wayyyyyyy too early to say Doc is better than Mario. Let's wait a few months. To be honest I'd main Doc even if Mario was slightly better

It is a bit harder to tell. With the large blast zones, Doc actually has a harder time of killing off the side with his fair, but Mario can dunk, for example. But Doc has a more flexible and powerful recovery (He can cape, tornado, AND up B, while Mario lacks the tornado).

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

As for the replies that are saying it's too early to tell if he's buffed Mario again, you have a point, but if I'm gonna be called out for that then I don't see the point of this thread. After all, Dr. Mario is in whether I like it or not. If the OP is asking for a serious standpoint on Dr. Mario, then we should give it whether it's positive or negative.

Some say that the tornado has lost a bit of recovery, but the fact that it recovers at all is a plus compared to F.L.U.D.D., which doesn't. I don't think I need foresight of future tier list placement to see that he's going to be better than Mario with that as a primary reason. While Mario can dunk with his fair, he needs to be near the ledges to do so, and Dr. Mario's upwards-sending fair has no bearing on where you are on the stage. You can use Doc's fair to KO from anywhere, not just near ledges.

I'll have to see more of Dr. Mario in the future to confirm my fears or put them to rest, but no, it isn't too early to say that he already looks better than Mario in a couple of obvious ways. Maybe Mario will somehow be better after all, or *gasp* evenly balanced against him. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, as much as I don't think adding Mario wearing a stethoscope as a separate character was justified.

 

[C3CC]

It makes me BURN with rage to see him back over Mewtwo. Really, if someone from Melee deserved to come back, it was Mewtwo, and not Dr. Mario. Mewtwo is an original character, and Dr. Mario is not. I'll be forever MAD at Sakurai for this thing.

 

[Kidney Thief]

It makes me BURN with rage to see him back over Mewtwo. Really, if someone from Melee deserved to come back, it was Mewtwo, and not Dr. Mario. Mewtwo is an original character, and Dr. Mario is not. I'll be forever MAD at Sakurai for this thing.

Keep the tears running they keep the fire in me alive