does fighting bad players make you worse?

[ZesuBen]

I lost a tournament match that I should have won hardcore because my brother uses a spammy Pikachu, and I'm used to playing that.

I blame myself entirely for bucketing again and again and again. I should have been more adaptive. My bad.

 

[Nicole]

I think if you play bad people, you just have to play exactly how you would against good people. But I don't know, I have the same problem as the guy who started this thread - I play competitively and the few people I have to play against are pretty bad. I keep waiting for them to get better...but I feel like I'm not getting better because of that.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

most smashers for some reason are not adaptive, so it does make them worse. but i don't know what that's like because i adjust quickly.

 

[Lemonwater]

Well, here's the guy who sucks
|-------------------

Here's you.
-------------------|

For me, it ends up meeting somewhere around here.
-------------|-----

I don't get worse PERMANENTLY, though, which is good. I just play a lot better against tough opponents (in fact, I play better than I usually do if my opponent is formidable). When I played Smash against some strangers, they told me I was okay but my friend on my team was really good. He knew I was better, so he played a 1 on 1 against me to show them how much better I was. I ended up two or three stocking him. He was Kirby, I was Link. 5 stock 1 on 1 match.

I can't bring myself to completely demolish someone who sucks, so I can't help but let them hit me (or kill me) a few times. I won't let myself LOSE, and I'm certainly no slouch, but I play a lot more carelessly and I go easy on beginners.

 

[DFat2]

Sirlin makes a fair point.

Yeah, the book is full of win. I should read it again in the near future (although it doesn't relate that much to smash, it does have some very good "In general" stuff that could be applied).

 

[misterpimp5757]

i think it would be useful to try combos on them as long as they know DI that is.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Try to find a way that you can "dumb down" your game against newbs, but have a set way to fight against pros. Forexample, I suck with the Wiimote alone, so I use it against newbies and still win. But I can still fight like the Demon I wish to be against people of my skill or higher when I switch back to the Wiimote Nunchuk Combo, or to the Gamecube Controller. That's just one such gimic. But again, make sure that you keep two seperate play styles in mind as well, since switching controllers might not be enough. Pros will punish you for mistakes, newbs occasionally punish themselves. Just make sure not to confuse the two, and to play at the top of your game whenever you can, and you should be fine. And yes, playing against bad enough people is like playing computers, since they occasionally can't respond well enough to mind games either.

 

[Alus]

When you are playing other people and have learned to resist bad habits then this is your chance to use a character that you have never played before and get used to using him against a human opponent.

You're a Marth main you may try snake... or even sonic... use whoever you wouldn't trust to win a game... like Gannon or Samus or fox W/e.

But remember in case there is a time when the noob (scrub?) starts talking trash, you can always switch to your main again and go for a win once in awhile.

And if your playing people better than you ALWAYS use your main even if it is a bad matchup.This will help you learn more about your main.

From this point... everything i could tell you, you wont care about.

 

[labrand7]

it won't help you, and don't get draggedd in into the bad habits.

 

[wh1te5had0w]

yes eventuality you will get tired of SSFFing and DIing because it's not going to help to help you vs a noob and then when you vs a good player you will be back to having your bad habits. it's a shock and you will think "OMG why am i doing so bad!?"

 

[AvaricePanda]

While it SHOULDN'T make you worse, people say it will. And it will for a lot of people if they aren't paying attention.

People will say that you'll fall into bad habits, etc., but you really shouldn't if you're aware of what not to do. Just because you can rolldodge into your opponent since he's bad/do some really punishable, hard placing attack doesn't mean you should. If you're aware of the things you shouldn't do, fighting bad people shouldn't make you any worse. If you don't do those bad habits against good people, what's making you do them against bad people?

It won't help much, especially compared to fighting people around your skill level, but it beats doing nothing.

Even if you revert back to old bad habits, just kick them within like an hour of play. If you played bad people for two days, it shouldn't take more than a couple of matches to kick the bad habits you should have never gotten anyway.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Any practice is better than no practice at all.

 

[Royale]

Funny you should say that, I played against someone over on wifi and was able to beat the pants off of them. But when I played against a noobie in person who barely plays, sure I beat that player but then the next day. I couldnt beat the one kid over on wifi or I could barley beat them. Your almost better off playing a character that you rarely use against a noobie so you wouldnt be so cautious on your timing. Alot of times, playing against noobs can screw up your timing badly and it causes you to play like crap. Basically just keep playing better players with your best character and use characters that you dont use as much against noobs.

I actually agree with this guy. I generally dont get on D3 for noobs. I like to play them on a character i generally never use. That way, for me at least, it'll make for an interesting match. I also usually stick to using my secondaries if it gets serious. Full blown hot competitive action i bring out my D3.

Theres still this issue of neglect though. You should still get on your main and religiously practice with him, whether or not your facing noobs/good fighters. Theres always something you need to work on with your main/secondarys. Practice, practice and practice some more.


As for worrying about 'getting worse, by playing bad fighters', try focusing on playing your best all the time every match. For me it helps to dispell this myth, and keeps me in the right frame of mind. I like to focus and fix the things im not good at doing, whilst also doing the things i rock at.

 

[voomm]

But i fight people and 10 stock them but i still play pro very well i dont get it?

 

[SothE700k]

The one thing to be careful of when you transition from good players to bad ones is the good ones will switch up tactics and keep you on your toes. You expect that from the bad player, but he/she are so committed to a move that its not even funny. Because of that, you're forced to re-adjust to what they do and the adjustment becomes very uncomfortable.

I don't even want to play my friend anymore because I'm being rewarded for noob tactics (roll then f-smash, repeat).
And if he misses a grab or a fsmash, he will keep going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going until he finally gets it.

Though it is good practice for popping him into the air so he's forced to switch what he does...

 

[SexTornado]

No it doesn't imo. Even if you do grow accustomed to using easily punishable moves, as soon as you get punished for it against a better player you can just adapt and not fall for the same trick again. As long as something is working keep doing it until it doesn't work anymore, then do something else.

 

[Jesustl64]

if you fight bad players then u fight good ones ur mind is gonna still be fighting bad players and ur gonna suck thats why u choose a weak character when your just messing around

 

[Moozle]

I always use Mario to fight really bad people because he was my old main, and I'm never going to pick him up again so I don't have to worry about messing up timing

 

[illinialex24]

Honest answer, yes. It makes you a decent amount worse if you play too long with players with bad DI's and the like.

 

[AvaricePanda]

if you fight bad players then u fight good ones ur mind is gonna still be fighting bad players and ur gonna suck thats why u choose a weak character when your just messing around

Of course fighting bad players is going to make you worse on the first couple of matches against good people, but it should never make you permanently worse. It should only take two matches, if that, to transition.

You just have to be aware of what you're doing. Since you (should) be switching tactics for each person you play, depending on if they're campy, aggresive, etc., why should it be any different than switching tactics between people who suck and people who don't?

Sure, you'll get away with "combos" that shouldn't work on bad people, but that's not going to make you permanently worse. If you're aware of the bad habits you may be forming while fighting bad people, they shouldn't really form for your competitive gameplay.

And if you're going into a tournament or important serious match, you shouldn't be playing crappy people right before it anyway.

tl;dr: Be aware of what you're doing or choose a secondary. Fighting bad people does not make you worse.

 

[Dragoomba]

If you ONLY fight bad players, then it's a possibility that you will get worse.

 

[thespymachine]

By playing worse people = you make them better

By playing better people = you get better

Therefore: If you play worse people, and make them better. Then you're eventually playing better people than you were. Making you better. The key is, to not just play with the same people, continuously. Play people better than you at tournements, improve yourself, then improve the worse people. Eventually they'll be able to go to tournaments and play better people at tournaments, and get better themselves. So when you play those worse players, they'll be better again. Making an endless cycle to everyone getting better.

There are three things that make up a competitive Smash player (or any one competitive for that matter): Skill, knowledge, and creativity.

Skill - The ability to perform a task/move/combo. The more skill you have, the more efficient you become with that task.

Knowledge - The ability to know things. lol. The more knowledge you have, of anything and everything, the more efficient you become knowing what to do when.

Creativity - The ability to not become repetitive. The more creativity you have, the more efficient you become at adding variety to your game (often referred to as "mindgames"), learning, and winning.

 

[hichez50]

Well playing bad players is a good time to master set-ups. Try new edge games. Even if you lose because of them you get that much expirence. Because think about it you are not going to practice agaisnt a pro unless you know him and get to play him often.

 

[Darxmarth23]

If you eventually start treating them like virtual sandbags, then i don't think it can hurt.

 

[AvaricePanda]

By playing worse people = you make them better

By playing better people = you get better

Therefore: If you play worse people, and make them better. Then you're eventually playing better people than you were. Making you better. The key is, to not just play with the same people, continuously. Play people better than you at tournements, improve yourself, then improve the worse people. Eventually they'll be able to go to tournaments and play better people at tournaments, and get better themselves. So when you play those worse players, they'll be better again. Making an endless cycle to everyone getting better.

There are three things that make up a competitive Smash player (or any one competitive for that matter): Skill, knowledge, and creativity.

Skill - The ability to perform a task/move/combo. The more skill you have, the more efficient you become with that task.

Knowledge - The ability to know things. lol. The more knowledge you have, of anything and everything, the more efficient you become knowing what to do when.

Creativity - The ability to not become repetitive. The more creativity you have, the more efficient you become at adding variety to your game (often referred to as "mindgames"), learning, and winning.

I agree somewhat. Playing worse people doesn't necessarily make them better unless you personally help them get better.

Also Cake, your avatar made me smile. Muse ftw.

 

[zaborg2400]

well it certainly wont make u better then it wood make u not as good...

 

[Dr.Peppers]

I feel like no one in this thread consistently plays people worse than them lol....

all you have to do is use that time to experiment and practice new techniques.

If in your mind you can't see what your doing that is only working because your playing a n00b, IE only projectiles or using Fsmash over and over, then I want to see what your matches with skilled opponents looks like, cause they surely can't be too impressive.

Basically, you can definitely improve small aspects of your game playing people worse than you, you just have to consciously do it. (IMO its easier to do this with secondary characters then your mains, though.)