Does anyone seriously enjoy competitive/casual brawl?

[Rikana]

thisthisthisthisthis

Seriously. Thank you for posting this.

I personally play Brawl because the game requires less tech and more thinking. This is a generalization, but it's the point. Also, Melee's been out longer so I'd have more catching up to do if I played Melee. I def enjoy both games tho.

tl;dr for all BvM topics: Brawl is the better game. Melee makes for a better sport. Neither is better or worse than the other overall... they're just different.

Whichever is the better game is your personal opinion. Its like how I think Melee is better than Brawl by miles and miles.

In Melee, along with thinking of a strategy, you must have many things to back it up as well. Tech skills don't need to be super flashy, as long as you have the basics down you're set. Reflexes are required in both game.

I wouldn't say Brawl requires "more" thinking. It gives you enough time to think because of all the stalled time you have from being defensive. In Melee, you're pressured to think fast. Punishing people for thinking of the wrong, or even baiting them to do something, can lead to a stock lost even from early percents. This doesn't necessarily happen in Brawl; baiting is in both games but something like punishing from very early into a stock lost is rare in Brawl.

 

[Pierce7d]

Brawl is not really about poking. Most characters don't have good pokes.

Brawl is about stage control. (Edit: Mostly)

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Aren't all 3 smash games about stage control to force an opening to your opponent?

 

[AlphaZealot]

I don't know. When I play Brawl, its all about banana control. When I played Melee it was all about turnip control. When I played Smash64 I was 10 and it was all about Falcon Punches.

 

[rhan]

I'm a Melee player and I find Brawl refreshing after not playing it for several months. Of course that refreshment only lasts about 3 hours.

 

[Shenanigans]

I don't know. When I play Brawl, its all about banana control. When I played Melee it was all about turnip control. When I played Smash64 I was 10 and it was all about Falcon Punches.

In all three games, it is still about falcon punches, because Falcon is and always will be THE MAN.

For me, I could never really get into brawl, mainly because i like the fast pace of melee and how it forces you to make decisions quickly. In all aspects of the word. Brawl seemed to lack that kind of appeal and I don't like the basis of a game forcing you into being defensive. It means both players have to much time to think, and I personally do not find that challenging because it always turns into a camping fest. (from my experiences).

For those of you who play competitive brawl, all the more power to you and keep it up. I just don't believe the metagame for Brawl will last as long as it has with melee (which is still going pretty strong.)

Though I would like to see what Project: M does with brawl. I would be excited for the basis of melee physics with an expansion of new characters and stages, as well as a more "balanced" cast of characters.

 

[VirtualVoid]

Sadly, this thread keeps hovering between melee/brawl debates and brawl bashing/praising, neither of were DewDaDash's original intent. It was much more interesting to mention insightful when it was about people explaining why they enjoy brawl and why they think other players fail to do so.

 

[Pierce7d]

For me, I could never really get into brawl, mainly because i like the fast pace of melee and how it forces you to make decisions quickly. In all aspects of the word. Brawl seemed to lack that kind of appeal and I don't like the basis of a game forcing you into being defensive. It means both players have to much time to think, and I personally do not find that challenging because it always turns into a camping fest. (from my experiences).

Brawl is not as fast as Melee, to be sure, but most opponents below my skill level, I can easily just overwhelm with speed and fast pressure which they cannot cope with. Most top players have expressed to me they do the same thing.

To me, this is like real fighting. If I know I am stronger and faster than my opponent, I do not hesitate, I just crush them unless I want to toy with them a bit. However, if I perceive that my opponent is of equal or greater skill, I am far more cautious.

For example, ESAM is typically an aggressive player. When I fought him at Pound 5, he started camping a lot more than he normally does during game three. When I mentioned it in humor, he said it was because he was more afraid. This made me feel respected. Of course, ESAM solidly defeated me, because he was a better player to be sure. But the point is, the game takes a natural flow.

Would you truly consider this to be a good game if one player could destroy an equally or nearly skilled player with overwhelming aggression? Defensive options are safer, but offensive options are more rewarding.

If you don't feel offensive options are rewarding when successful in Brawl, it probably means you don't understand how to control space properly.

 

[OkamiBW]

Just as a heads up to anyone who tries to use this argument...this is what you sound like.

Coin flipping takes less tech skill, so it's more mindgame heavy than anything that requires technical skill.

(Make sure you back it up!)

P.S.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=106424

This makes me want to play Metaknight.

 

[EpixAura]

Just as a heads up to anyone who tries to use this argument...this is what you sound like.

Coin flipping takes less tech skill, so it's more mindgame heavy than anything that requires technical skill.

How about a compromise? Let's compare it to rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock. It really does take more mindgames, because approaching is so much more difficult... which, admittedly is a flaw in itself.

Touché.

^Ignore all of the above.

 

[Slashy]

You know there are technically more options than just Brawl and Melee...

 

[EpixAura]

You know there are technically more options than just Brawl and Melee...

Ah, yes. SS64. I forgot.

 

[Slashy]

And all the smash mods....

I pretty much took the less popular third option, and stuck with Smash Mods and SSB64

 

[Abel1994]

LUCKY STAR!!!!!!!!!!


ANywayz!!!!
This is why I main Pit= fun char :3

 

[Shorts]

I enjoy brawl because it's fun to play? Isn't that what everyone's answer should be? I don't enjoy a lot of the aspects of brawl though. I don't enjoy the lack of excitment it brings when you earn all the characters in under 24 hours. I dislike the repetivite dodge dancing. The game is decent, and I enjoy it. But I love virtually everything about 64/Melee.

 

[Abel1994]

Melee was more fun though. Just saying.

Just remakke melee with wifi and their you have a great game.

 

[EpixAura]

And all the smash mods....

I pretty much took the less popular third option, and stuck with Smash Mods and SSB64

Lol, yeah. I mostly play Project: M, actually.

"First there was SSB69. Then there was SSB Gay-lay. Then there was SSB Sucks Brawls. And now... PROJECT: M!"

I won't make fun of Project: M's name, partly because it's too cool, partly because I'm afraid to post what I came up with...

 

[Slashy]

Again TC, I think you might want to try the Smash Mods if you have the time, if you don't mind a smaller fanbase then I guarantee that you'll find something what you'll like if you try out the major projects.

 

[Shenanigans]

Brawl is not as fast as Melee, to be sure, but most opponents below my skill level, I can easily just overwhelm with speed and fast pressure which they cannot cope with. Most top players have expressed to me they do the same thing.

To me, this is like real fighting. If I know I am stronger and faster than my opponent, I do not hesitate, I just crush them unless I want to toy with them a bit. However, if I perceive that my opponent is of equal or greater skill, I am far more cautious.

For example, ESAM is typically an aggressive player. When I fought him at Pound 5, he started camping a lot more than he normally does during game three. When I mentioned it in humor, he said it was because he was more afraid. This made me feel respected. Of course, ESAM solidly defeated me, because he was a better player to be sure. But the point is, the game takes a natural flow.

Well if you were to compare it to actual fighting, you are correct on the approach, however once you have the momentum you generally want to keep it. Like in martial arts, once you hit a certain level, you generally don't think about what you are doing in terms of reacting to what your opponent does (to an extent) but letting the natural course of what you have learned take over. Your body will react in the most efficient manner to what your opponent is doing. while you are consciously looking for an opening in which to lash out at your opponent. Though, there is the occasional reset, they generally don't last to long as to one person (either side) is trying o offset the other so the immediate situation is in his favor.

Actual fight, where even those of the same skill level can become one sided due to one mistake on either persons part. This is actually most of the time the common cause of who wins/loses in matches where opponents are around the same skill level.

Well, like i said it's my experience in martial arts (my favorite sport in the world, which i've been doing majority of my life. Multiple styles to, it is awesome.) I can only speak for martial arts though.

This is how melee is to me, conditioning and constantly looking for that particular opening while subconsciously reacting to what your opponent is doing.

This more than likely occurs in brawl, but i don't see it to the extent as in melee which just appeals to me more.

I don't mean to degrade Brawl at all, it just... you know, wasn't my cup of tea.

 

[Zodiac]

I dont play brawl in tournaments ever, absolutely not. I don't even practice the game unless my friends come over to play it. Hell if I didnt use it for machinima then I would have sold it long ago, but you know when my friends do come over or someone asks me for a friendly at a brawl/melee tournament I do enjoy playing the game.

but watching the game? the hell with that, I'll fall asleep. Everyone knows brawl is in general not as fun to watch, in fact the only time I would (Past tense mind you) EVER watch a brawl video is to learn new tricks with my peach.

bottom line, this game is more boring than melee is, and honestly its just a dumbed down slower version of melee. And thats not a bad thing, Brawl isnt as exciting as melee but its still fun.

P.S.
I dont see how anyone who enjoys ANY of the smash games can have absolutely no fun with another. They all work off the same premise and while radically different they are similar enough that you can shift between all three and play the same way (casually).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Well what do we have here? Another Melee vs Brawl topic with a clever title that implies otherwise...

BTW Nagace, in high level Chess the white pieces are known to be more defensive - your goal as the white pieces is to draw out the game so your opponent doesn't score, your goal as black is to win the game and score. You can score as white aswell, but good luck with that. To say Brawl isn't a thinking person's game because defense wins is putting the foot right in your mouth pal - what happens when both players are defensive? Well the player who can keep their defenses tight while making correct offensive choices wins. Sounds alot like chess doesn't it?

Yeah we need more of these threads, the more threads I'm in the faster my epic fanbase will grow!

first off comparing brawl to chess is a insult to chess. 2nd brawl is not about choosing the correct offensive moves its about punishing anyone who is foolish enough to go on the offensive. Will the NY DK planked and had something like 185 ledge grabs and people are cheering him for this how the **** is that a good thing? this just proves brawl is a poorly made game that must be played defensively while offense is always the wrong choice. trying to say brawl is like chess is just peoples way of trying to make themselves feel better for playing a game which is not a good competitive game. also in chess u make a mistake and lose an impotent piece u could be ****ed while in brawl u make a mistake u get hit once then it resets b/c there are no combos not very chess like.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Ummm...... back on topic, I tried to enjoy competitive Brawl, I really tried hard as evidenced by the fact that I'm still here(most people who don't enjoy competitive Brawl stopped playing smash altogether), but it didn't work out. It did not get me excited or is as invigorating as the first 2 games.
That and during my brief tenure, the atmosphere wasn't as positive as it was years ago in 2007.

Sorry, I tried as hard as I could, but it wasn't meant to be.

 

[DewDaDash]

The only thing I've found out so far is it seems like the people on allisbrawl are smarter than SWF

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=106316&page=2

Although, I do appreciate those who were on topic and actually answered the question after actually reading this.

For those who have a hard time understanding the purpose of this thread, it was to analyze the current metagame.
The only comparison i wanted b/n the two is just the diversity of characters, NOT TECH SKILL, NOT FAST PACED, NOT MUSCLE MEMORY COMBOS. Sure that can be part of your argument, but keep it to a minimum and don't just blab on about that and then not answer the question and analyze this topic for what it is.
The point of me doing this was trying to say that the metagame and livelihood of the brawl community wont last long if its not fixed and stays the same like it currently is. Sure you can refer to melee and such, but please keep it to a minimum thats not the purpose of this.

 

[Fletch]

I dont play brawl in tournaments ever, absolutely not. I don't even practice the game unless my friends come over to play it. Hell if I didnt use it for machinima then I would have sold it long ago, but you know when my friends do come over or someone asks me for a friendly at a brawl/melee tournament I do enjoy playing the game.

but watching the game? the hell with that, I'll fall asleep. Everyone knows brawl is in general not as fun to watch, in fact the only time I would (Past tense mind you) EVER watch a brawl video is to learn new tricks with my peach.

bottom line, this game is more boring than melee is, and honestly its just a dumbed down slower version of melee. And thats not a bad thing, Brawl isnt as exciting as melee but its still fun.

P.S.
I dont see how anyone who enjoys ANY of the smash games can have absolutely no fun with another. They all work off the same premise and while radically different they are similar enough that you can shift between all three and play the same way (casually).

I agree with this post. I think Brawl is stupid, but I can still have fun playing it, but I just get sick of it a lot faster than ssb64 or Melee because of all the dumb **** that happens.

Anyone that says Brawl requires more thinking though I believe is delusional.

 

[DewDaDash]

Before i post this, I am truly sorry for making a brawl/melee reference, but it has to be said because ppl still keep going on about this smarter/not smarter bs.

it does not require more thinking, it requires a different way of thinking. In melee you have to react on the dot, obviously with more time you have to react, you have more time to think about your first action and their consequences, is this not true? In melee its more of your given this limited time frame to perform said action, so your thinking in advance and your future moves as you performed the 1st hit because the first hit came out already by the start of that thought. Melee i would compare more as timed chess with a clock on the side where brawl is checkers because I feel that eventually it will just mostly be mk dittos(thus lowering the diversity of the characters and the metagame).

Now that this is out of the way, carry on with the original topic

 

[Clel]

first off comparing brawl to chess is a insult to chess. 2nd brawl is not about choosing the correct offensive moves its about punishing anyone who is foolish enough to go on the offensive. Will the NY DK planked and had something like 185 ledge grabs and people are cheering him for this how the **** is that a good thing? this just proves brawl is a poorly made game that must be played defensively while offense is always the wrong choice. trying to say brawl is like chess is just peoples way of trying to make themselves feel better for playing a game which is not a good competitive game. also in chess u make a mistake and lose an impotent piece u could be ****ed while in brawl u make a mistake u get hit once then it resets b/c there are no combos not very chess like.

Oh shoot something's in the mail! A response? For me?! =)

1 - Brawl isn't just punishing offense
People beat the defensive playstyle horse to death, claiming offense has no place and I guess I'm thankful for this cause I'm getting plenty of experience against that logic lols. The triangle seems to go like this, Offense < Defense < Baiting < Offense. So we got our rock paper scissors, now lets understand that it's an Advanced RPS system, some options give bigger rewards than the others - Offense isn't one of the big guns here and scrubbies have trouble accepting that.

2 - Will was the underdog of that match you mentioned.
So yeah it's kinda a given that he was cheered for. Most brawlers hate planking and timeouts; usually there's rules against it too. But this doesn't "prove" anything as far as brawl being 100% defense though, if playing defensive is all it takes to beat someone it's the person losing who's making the experience shallow by not adapting or doing what it takes to change things.

3 - Brawl and Chess
Disclaimer, I've come to accept saying "BUT BRAWL AND CHESS ARE ALIKE" comes off as saying Brawl can't be terrible because it's similar to something great or that brawl requires more thinking than Melee. I'm not going for that cheap logic there - I point these similarities out because I know Chess I know Brawl and people will bash brawl night and day but respect Chess, then act like there's no a double standard. Why not bash Chess masters for camping eachother and setting up and having 30 minute games? /End Disclaimer, I am mad bro.

To get to your actual point on the matter, losing an important piece is a blunder; it's a major mistake to let that happen. If you make a major mistake in brawl (examples: suicide, bad DI), gl coming back when your campy opponent won't let you kill them and they keep tacking damage on you. Honestly I feel insulted you even compared a chess blunder to getting hit in brawl, makes this a waste of time as apparently you can't even put up a fight. Oh well, 40 fanboys gained, no level up =(

I do plan to respond to the original post sometime, excuse me having fun over here =)

 

[The Good Doctor]

I'm a Melee player and I find Brawl refreshing after not playing it for several months. Of course that refreshment only lasts about 3 hours.

This
I think there is a problem when a topic like this is posted and it's taken seriously.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

dude brawl and chess are not alike get over it. the only similarity is u think in both but if u want to use that as your argument then almost anything is like chess.

2nd i now Will and i happen to know he planks and camps even when he is not the underdog and when i called him out on it he said its brawl its what you do to win. so dont use underdog status as a reason.

melee takes just as much thinking as brawl maybe more since one mistake could cost u so much more. its like playing chess with a 5 minute clock, u need to make quick decisions. (speed chess was always more fun)

now u say baiting beats defense but thats not true at all especially if the defensive character as a projectile (not like a projectile is needed to beat trying to beat all u need to do is not fall for it and since defence is so strong u shouldn't fall for it). i dont even know how to respond to someone who doesn't even know what he's talking about. u r the type of person who will say anything in an argument then pretend what u said makes u win the argument, so its pointless to even talk to u.

people try to compare brawl to chess just so they can try to make brawl seem legit. but its a weak argument and fails.

ether way u shouldn't respond to me b/c i am done with this thread. Look i dont care if u like brawl or not but dont compare it to chess, i mean really its like comparing 2-grade math to advanced calculus its not the same. brawl is more like one of those contest were u have to keep your hand on something without letting go, it takes a long time can be very boring but it proves u have some kind of mental stamina to do something so tedious for so long

 

[UltiMario]

At my school, there's this video game club we have. The school actually owns a Wii, but no GC controllers, and we haven't even been able to total 450 Brawls to unlock everything, well, that's mainly because I bring my own Wii in for Project M (which typically everyone enjoys more, even though everyone but me are casual players) and we don't use the school's Wii much anymore, but that's besides the point.

Whenever I don't bring my stuff, they're stuck either playing other games, or vBrawl. Normally that's when I'm just not there, but the other day I went in for the last half of the club, and didn't have my Wii. They were playing vBrawl, and like only three people were actually playing it (unlike the six or so that usually shuffle through Project M), and with that they were using Wii motes (shuffling between the two the school has). At the last second I pretty much went in for a match against one of the guys that doesn't show up often with my Wii mote 5-month-old-rusty Meta Knight, and it's an easy two-stock. And you know what? After playing PM again for so long, it was such a dissapointing feeling. Even as a quick thing, it was more work than fun.

What's the story mean? Competitively, Brawl sucks. Casually, Brawl is still mediocre, and when people taste a good game, they really don't wanna go back.

If I want to play competitve Smash, let's grab Melee or Project M. If I want to grab casual smash, let's go for Brawl- or some crazy stuff. I haven't even tried Brawl-, but I've heard it's amazing for casual play. That's how confident I am in Brawl having such mediocre gameplay, I'd rather believe a hack I've never played is more fun than it.

So, tl;dr: No and no.

 

[Slashy]

Ultimario I 100% agree with everything you said. I wish my gaming club enjoyed mods as much as yours does.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't enjoy competitive Brawl, except in a select few match-ups.

I love casual Brawl though (love casual Melee better, of course).

 

[Mic_128]

Sadly, this thread keeps hovering between melee/brawl debates and brawl bashing/praising, neither of were DewDaDash's original intent.

Considering his opening sentence was 'does anyone enjoy playing this pathetic excuse for a successor to melee?' I'd say a Brawl vs Melee thread is exactly what he was after.

People enjoy brawl. /thread