Doctor Who Mafia: Night 1 Begins! Deadline is set for the 31th at 0400.

[Peach Monster]

It hurts scum in that way that it may make new scum vote for other scum, but by doing so these new players can completely avoid being pressured or responsible for any of their actions. how can you pressure them if they are just basing their votes and actions on what FF is doing? I feel like it's giving them a free pass, kind of a safety net. Gheb can you explain a little more what you mean and a bit more why you thought it was a good idea to bring up?

 

[Peach Monster]

still Edrees btw

 

[Peach Monster]

Swiss is always scum. I have been right every game.

Vote: Swiss

Too many hydras. Makes too many players difficult to read. Will be biased against all hydras until we have a manageable number (2 sounds good, one would be better). I'd prefer hydras to differentiate posts by colour - but if they want to bold which is posting at the beginning of each post I could accept that.

This is stupid. Hydras are accountable to their own contradictions; I believe we had this argument in Halo mafia.

Differentiating the hydra heads give hydras an 'out'; they can express any outrageous idea or any telling statement, and then say "oh, that wasn't me, that was my other head" and not be accountable.

FF is dead. His N0 death immediately puts scum in a certain category of players. Which fails to help us with a player list this large. Remember it for late game when the good scum players are still alive and they've bussed their buddies.

More in a bit.

This is distracting. The mod has already confirmed that FF died as part of his role, which makes the death unconnected to scum. Your later post suggests that maybe scum chose FF's role? Silliness.

Yep, I like where I'm putting my vote.

Larry is a black Falco player. That makes him auto suspect.

Vote DEHF

Falco players are always black. DEHF, SK92, Keitaro, etc etc. I see nothing suspect.

I'd vote for a white Falco immediately.

 

[Peach Monster]

Oh wow, I ninja'd myself. Hi Edrees! <3

 

[Peach Monster]

Swiss I was just kidding about suspecting you for always being scum, lol.

I'm not saying Frozen would be less likely to find newbies suspicious, I'm saying if newbies are given someone to follow and rpoxy votes off of then it makes it much harder to decide if they are scum or town because they are just following what someone else is doing.

 

[Swiss]

It hurts scum in that way that it may make new scum vote for other scum, but by doing so these new players can completely avoid being pressured or responsible for any of their actions. how can you pressure them if they are just basing their votes and actions on what FF is doing? I feel like it's giving them a free pass, kind of a safety net. Gheb can you explain a little more what you mean and a bit more why you thought it was a good idea to bring up?

Are you aware that, re-worded this reads:

It is bad because it makes it easier to lynch scum


What?

 

[Peach Monster]

Post # 165 was Edrees being ninja'd by Praxis's post #163/164.

 

[Peach Monster]

163 and 164 = Praxis, if you care.

 

[Peach Monster]

... V_V getting silly with the ninjas.

 

[Swiss]

@ #163

You may have pinned me - but you can't lynch me. What are you doing to ensure you can carry through your reads this game? What has changed?

 

[Peach Monster]

I'm saying newbies following Frozen could POSSIBLY help lynch scum, but MORE likely it'll just allow them to avoid being pressured. So I don't like it. There is no guarantee that Frozen is giong to vspot out scum. If you could guarantee me this, then I would have no problem with it. But Frozen as a good of a player he is may not have correct reads and this would allow those players following him to coast. I do NOT think it is worth it.

Dark Yoshi and Swiss - are you guys saying you like the idea and would like for it to happen then?

 

[Peach Monster]

@170 - Are you referencing in comparison to Halo mafia? We failed in that game because of concurrent vacations on D1 assuming the other player would be active, general disinterest due to the flavor/mod, and confusion from the hydras (which are much better enforced in this game).

Comparing to the rest of my mafia history, that game was an isolated incident that I do not expect to repeat.

 

[Swiss]

You didn't say which half of the hydra that was. Your account has already agreed to do this.

Why do you never raise faults with me telling people to vote? This is effectively the same situation. Replacing myself with FF.

 

[smargaret]

I agree with PM. Swiss is always scum.

Vote: Swiss

 

[Swiss]

Smar considering what has already happened - I'm assuming you know we aren't in RVS anymore.

Why do you feel that Rule #2 (Swiss is always scum) is sufficient justification to vote me? Do you think pressure will work? Clearly you know this not to be true. So we're left with the option that you feel this IS reason to lynch me or you're scare mongering and trying to force players that don't know me against me.

Which is it and why?

 

[Peach Monster]

You didn't say which half of the hydra that was. Your account has already agreed to do this.

171 was Edrees, 172 Praxis. This is Praxis now.

Please explain in further detail why you feel this is necessary; we believe the hydra as a whole is accountable to statements. (Letting one half address a certain question is acceptable, but the other half does not get a freebie if neither half answers acceptably)

Why do you never raise faults with me telling people to vote? This is effectively the same situation. Replacing myself with FF.

Because if you tell someone to vote, and they vote, they signal acceptance with your stance, and that can be analyzed later.

Meanwhile, Gheb's suggestion of newer players proxy voting for FF is not only giving them an excuse to, but actually encouraging players to Bandwagon and avoid giving us their own stances.

While I expect FF might have good reads, encouraging unconfirmed players to bandwagon on his reads and vote when he says so deprives us of information on those players, whom we already will have trouble reading due to being newer.

Smar considering what has already happened - I'm assuming you know we aren't in RVS anymore.

Why do you feel that Rule #2 (Swiss is always scum) is sufficient justification to vote me? Do you think pressure will work? Clearly you know this not to be true. So we're left with the option that you feel this IS reason to lynch me or you're scare mongering and trying to force players that don't know me against me.

Which is it and why?

I wish to answer this question as well, but will refrain from doing so until Smar's response.

 

[smargaret]

I don't recall anything happening to take us out of RVS, except you trying to revive the "Hydras should post in colors" discussion - which I find slightly scummy, since you could have addressed it in pregame - and speculation about Frozen's role.

 

[Swiss]

Vote Smargaret

 

[Kuzmaru]

Swiss was town in SC mafia btw.

 

[Swiss]

Kuz what do you think of Smar?

 

[Kuzmaru]

*EBWOP:

Although I'm not sure what exactly his role was. I think it was town masons or lovers.

 

[Swiss]

I was masoned with J - confirmed town, imagine that.

 

[Kuzmaru]

I think (from not knowing what FF said, I'll have to re-read that, not in 40pp)

That Smar would seem to be following FF. (according to Peach Monster) It seems he wants to find you scummy, just for reviving a hydra distinction discussion.

Do you think Smar's stance on you will strengthen?

 

[Swiss]

Do you think Smar is scum?

What do you think of 'follow FF'?

 

[smargaret]

What do you mean, follow FF? We're two pages into the game, I don't see how I can have a really strong stance one way or another.

 

[Swiss]

Smar why are you reacting badly to pressure?

 

[Kuzmaru]

I mean following PM with the instict of "Swiss is always scum".

I didn't mean FF. I hadn't seen his post yet regardless. (I got confused with PM talking about following FF, and saying swiss is always scum, but I noted you saying the same as well, and I don't believe meta should be used against someone, that is unfair, and you never know what tricks they may bring... READS ARE IMPORTANT TOO)

@Swiss: No, but I don't think it's a good reason to think you are scum just for reviving the hydra distinction convo. I even posted my confirmation in a colour as well.

He never said it was weird that I posted in a diff colour than the previous post, so he might have missed it or been mini-tunneling.

Also I hope your stance strengthens, Smar.

 

[The Pink Sasquatch]

To quote a statue I once knew

"You shouldn't have done that"

Unvote
Vote: smargaret

 

[Peach Monster]

...I found Smar's post rather lacking as well.

My own answers:

Why do you feel that Rule #2 (Swiss is always scum) is sufficient justification to vote me? Do you think pressure will work?

'twas borderline RVS, and rule #2 was justification for an initial post. However, your further posts are distracting and harping on unnecessary points that have been addressed in further game, and your responses to our inquiries, we feel, are somewhat circular. Thus, we are satisfied with our vote as the best read we have available at this early point in the game.

 

[Swiss]

If Smar is our best lead, why has your vote not followed?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Yeah guys, don't waste your time debating about my role. I'm a confirmed town tree stump who is forced to go into tree-stump mode pre-game. ;_;

Not being able to vote is lame as hell but oh wellz, guess this game is read development training since I'm guaranteed to be alive till the very end.

I do not endorse anyone proxying my vote blindly. I don't want any potential anti town players to be able to ride my logic when I could be very wrong and just be able to blame me for sucking and causing mislynches. When I take stances and suggest lynches, people should treat my stances just like you would a confirmed town player who can vote himself, and I expect just as much explanation and substantiation you would normally offer.

I hate being put up on a pedestal in big games like this. Lots of pressure. >_< This should be a long, strange journey...

 

[Peach Monster]

If Smar is our best lead, why has your vote not followed?

I did not state that Smar was our best lead, only that Smar's post was lacking.

Smar's post was either skimming (RVS bandwagoning) or straight up bandwagoning.

You're distracting to town and focusing on little issues, and overly focusing on flavor while seeming to skim it.

I acknowledge that there is a lead on Smar and will not derail any questioning of Smar, and will contribute myself, but I don't see a reason to switch my vote until I am satisfied with your play or feel a need to pressure another player.

 

[Swiss]

God I hate players like you.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Oh and btw I totally endorse being biased against hydras. Any questionably playing/inactive hydras need to be mega vig fodder in the early game.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not being able to vote is lame as hell but oh wellz, guess this game is read development training since I'm guaranteed to be alive till the very end.

Heh?

Dead:

15. FrozenFlame751 (Frobisher, Town Ghost)

Talking =/= alive.


(just busting your chops cause I find it hilarious)

 

[Peach Monster]

God I hate players like you.

*bows*

Feeling's mutual

Also, #192 was Praxis. So was #189. And this.

Your posts seem strangely manipulative.

For example (Green is commentary):

Us:

This is Edrees posting. i'm just gonna post my name before every post, i don't like using colors.

Swiss stop trying to fool everyone, we know you are always scum. this game is probably no exception.

...

gheb i'm not so sure about newer players proxying their votes on ff. if those new players are scum and ff plays pro town it will give them a free pass. weird suggestion coming from you.

Swiss:

Which?[[<- Swiss nitpicks on the word "probably".]]
Also do you have reason to trust me less than other players initially? Will I have to do more than the average townie to clear myself? If I had a way of clearing myself as 'town' at the cost of my vote but NOT my voice in this thread - assuming I was lynched not NK'd - would you lynch me D1? [[<- A bit of a nitpick, but this is an interesting question; I can't figure out why he'd ask it. The answer is obvious; no one would lynch a confirmed townie based on a joke rule. We're in pseudo-RVS at this point, only discussing flavor at this point, and we hadn't even put down a vote yet, yet he'strying to make us appear unreasonable really early on; maybe even arguably an AtE. It's a scenario that we shouldn't be addressing; if he does have a way to confirm himself town, he just outed himself and shouldn't have brought it up, and if he doesn't, then it is irrelevant except to make us say "No, we wouldn't lynch you in that case." As I said, this is a nitpick on my part, but strange.]]




Why do you assume Frozen would be less likely to find the newbies suspicious purely because they are no longer in direct control of their votes? [[<-- Very manipulative rephrasing of our position/statement. Our (Edrees') standpoint was that we'd have less information on the newbies if they had no control over their votes, which is entirely correct.]]

Us:

[[This part is badly worded, but is only the preface ->]]It hurts scum in that way that it may make new scum vote for other scum, [[Here is our (Edrees') actual response -->]]but by doing so these new players can completely avoid being pressured or responsible for any of their actions. how can you pressure them if they are just basing their votes and actions on what FF is doing? I feel like it's giving them a free pass, kind of a safety net.[[<-- so, how is Swissy going to respond to this?]] Gheb can you explain a little more what you mean and a bit more why you thought it was a good idea to bring up?

Swiss:

Are you aware that, re-worded this reads:

It is bad because it makes it easier to lynch scum


What?[[ So, Swiss responds by twisting the preface and ignoring the content. Very convincing...?]]

Us, regarding you, #189:

Thus, we are satisfied with our vote [[on Swiss]] as the best read we have available at this early point in the game.

Your response:

If Smar is our best lead, why has your vote not followed? [[What? We said the opposite of this.]]

Learn2discuss.

 

[Peach Monster]

God I hate players like you.

Swissscum => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z_x0Sev8hE

 

[Swiss]

So I was 'twisting' your words.

What conclusion does this bring about? Scum? Why?

 

[Teryble Doom~]

So I was 'twisting' your words.

What conclusion does this bring about? Scum? Why?

Since Dark Yoshi is already using lime, I, Tery, will be using yellow. I'll assume -Dooms- will be using a dark green or something. Anyway.

If you're saying you were "twisting" Peach Monster's words - which is evident. Why did you do this in the first place? Misunderstandings can occur, but I'm sure someone of your ability (from what I've heard around DGames and seen on AIM, anyway) would not ever confuse "lead" with "read" or some of the other points Peach Monster have pointed out. That's something which bothered me, I guess.

 

[Swiss]

Don't worry - it's a town tell. Is there any reason you don't find Smar suspicious?