Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[osby]

Steve's cool. He and Alex were two of the few characters I wanted because of their moveset and boy, I wasn't disappointed.

Say what you will about Steve.

This track is one of the best in the game.

That one is nice.

But I like this one:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Steve's cool. He and Alex were two of the few characters I wanted because of their moveset and boy, I wasn't disappointed.



That one is nice.

But I like this one:

But have you considered...

Piano?

 

[Knight Dude]

Funny, I was just talking about how much I dislike minimalist UIs in games over Discord the other day

Guess it's not just in the games, eh?

De-friggin-lightful

Yeah, it's mostly effected logos in recent years. But I suppose in the context of games themselves, things like HP Gauges are usually much simpler now. Personally, I prefer that than the few years we had other genres that weren't FPS or FPS related, would remove health bars and just make the screen reddish or bloody as a health signifier.

If there's one UI element that needs to change, I think the extra small subtitles in a lot of games needs addressing.

 

[FreeFox]

I have the strangest relationship ever with Steve. It all comes back to base game speculation and its direct competition with Banjo Kazooie. There was this seemingly never ending war between the two factions for a spot in the game. Lots of memes would come and go including Ugly Steve and it was a pretty hard battle considering one was the biggest game in the world and the other was a seemingly forgotten mascot who had stopped receiving attention from its owners and developers. Things eventually changed when the Grinch leak happened and it finally seeemed like Banjo Kazooie had a chance to join the roster properly. It was a pretty mixed situation where I had my doubts for the leak (especially since there were inconsistencies) but it was my best shot against Steve supporters.

Sill, I was getting annoyed by the character and in my arrogance, I made a bet with my friends that if the character was ever added to the game, I would main him. That was how sure I was that Steve wasnt coming. Between my friends, he was the "kiddie meme character" so for the most part, my friends didnt mind my disdain for the character and some even encouraged it. I felt like I was in a great spot since I was right about Ridley (and the return of Ice Climbers and Pokemon trainer) and eventually was also proven right when voting against the Grinch leak and predicting correctly Kencineroar as the true leaked content (facts that I rubbed in some of my friends´ faces). I felt like nothing could stop me and gained even more confidence that Banjo-Kazooie would eventually join. My only fear was Vergeben´s comment about "Minecraft content" for Smash still on the back of my head.

It came time for the DLC and during E3, the impossible happened and Banjo Kazooie finally arrived. I rejoiced for their arrival and basically danced in what I though was basically the dead of Steve´s chance for joining smash. I could finally put to rest my fear of Minecraft getting the spot or joining in this smash iteration. We, B-K fans, had won the battle. I even took the chance to make a few jokes online and irl at the expense of Steve. By the time fighter pass came to be, Steve was just but a memory of the past. And I started to concentrate on what I would like to see for the FP2. Afterall, nothing could stop me now or so I though....

As always, I woke up to watch the presentation. There was no way I was missing it. It started and I was excited as I watched looking for clues of what the character may be and then it happened. I saw "cube dust" and my heart sank for a moment. I though "It couldnt be. No way he was getting added." And then the wall was broken and I saw the silhoette. It definitely was Steve. He had arose from the death and thrown me down back to Earth. I knew what was coming. I had made a bet and I was about to be proven wrong. It was time to pay my dues for my arrogance. I was angry at the situation but tried my best to gracefully take the L.

I started playing Steve and I hated it. Some of my friends would even tease me about the whole thing when they came to play smash (some even picked the stage to hammer the point home). They would remind me of the bet and I would have to play Steve. I sucked at playing the character but I knew I had to fulfill my bet. So, it was then that I decided that if he was going to be a main, I would kick as with him. I decided to practice to get better and even asked my friends for matches to hone my skills with the character. Slowly, I started liking playing the character and even became a natural part of my rotation between characters.

I had played so much in the Minecraft stage that I actually had music that I preferred to hear when playing there. It was when I realized I had warmed up to the character and I was starting to feel curious about the franchise. Could it be that there was more to Minecraft than just memes? I had my doubts and decided to take the chance to at least give the franchise a chance. While I wont say that I became the greatest fan of the IP, I will admit I had fun playing the two games available on the switch. By this point, my friends had stopped the playful teasing and Steve had become just a character I played with. I wasnt playing Minecraft Steve because I had to but because I liked doing it.

It also had its impact on how I acted in character speculation. I would rather now give the benefit of the doubt than just let first impressions or the circumstances surrounding the character dictate my behavior (sometimes I will joke about characters but its not true hate for them). Its been a long journey and a strange one at that. Especially since Steve went from hated rival to nuisance to the center of my mysery to a fun addition to the key to new possibilities and enjoyment. There is a saying that goes "Dont judge too soon. What might seem like a blessing might turn out to be the worst thing that has happened to you. What might seem like a tragedy might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. " Its probably rather appropiate here.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Steve was a running gag in another group I was in, so honestly Steve was funnier than anything. Definitely helps that he was after Banjo, because if he hadn't been, my opinion may have been more negative. As is, though, I really enjoy his inclusion.

I do like to mess around with Steve sometimes still (or rather, with Zombie, since that's the only one I use lol) and I do have fun with him in those instances. The music is really good (I'm particularly partial to Toys on a Tear myself), and I like that the stage has a bunch of different possible layouts.

Definitely deserved the spot, Minecraft is the best selling game of all time and defined a ton of peoples' childhoods.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Btw one thing I like is how 2 friends of mine assumed I would be pissed off that Steve was in because they know I want Dante a lot. You can bet your sweet bippy that they suffered many a minecart

 

[ZelDan]

Never played Minecraft

Don't care for its graphical style

Don't like how Steve's model looks in Smash (or in general)

Find his moveset one of the least fun to play

Don't find it fun to fight against

yeah I'm not crazy about Steve being in Smash.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Light good, Darkness bad,

Riku tho

 

[BlondeLombax]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; when I learned that Steve was getting added, I laughed pretty much nonstop that entire day. That being said, I think it's safe to say that he brought with him one of the single most creative & accurate movesets in the history of Super Smash Bros. It actually feels like it could be a legitimate Minecraft mod with how well made he is.

 

[zumaddy]

Despite Steve being the most famous of Pack 2 he's the one I'm most indifferent to

 

[Jondolio]

I initially wasn't really a big fan of the idea of Steve in Smash since I was Team Banjo (although very lowkey at that), but by the time he got in I stopped caring about who gets in, so Steve was fine. Didn't really get a reaction out of me for that reason, and I understood why he's in. I did pick up Minecraft recently - haven't played much of it since I mostly play with my friends, but I had fun messing around with it.

I do like his playstyle. It's complicated as hell but he can be really fun to mess around with. Not a big fan of the music though.

So yeah, Steve in Smash is... pretty cool.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Min-Min

I wasn’t a big fan of her inclusion tbh. I’ve only played Arms for a bit at the Nintendo Store but I didn’t like the gameplay, though I don’t like any arena fighters so that’s probably why. I like the characters & art style of the game, I just wish it was in a genre I actually enjoy like 2D fighters.

Arms was something I would’ve been okay with for the base roster but it was a really lackluster DLC choice IMO. I just feel like Nintendo DLC picks should be fan favorite choices instead of pushing recent titles. I do like that they picked Min-Min specifically though. I really like her design & I’m glad they decided to pick a woman since FP1 almost had none.

I don’t enjoy her gameplay at all. I find it very awkward & sort of boring to play as. I don’t mind fighting against her though, it’s fun trying to make your way through her constant stream of long ranged attacks.

I really like her stage. It’s fun to play on & has some good music.

Steve

Minecraft is in my top 10 favorite games of all-time & it’s my second most played game. So naturally, Steve was one of my most wanted characters. I did end up downplaying him a bit despite that since he was “up against” my two most wanted characters (Banjo & Master Chief).

Steve is one of the most deserving picks in Ultimate. Minecraft has touched the hearts of millions. It’s introduced just as many people to the wonders of gaming as Mario or Pac-Man, maybe even more. It’s one of the most important & legendary games of all-time.

I really like Steve’s moveset. I feel they did a pretty damn good job capturing the essence of Minecraft into a Smash fighter. I actively enjoy inventory management in games, so I really like that aspect of Steve. Despite his awkward stilted animations, I find Steve really smooth to play as. He just feels right in my hands. He’s not in my main rotation of characters but I love it when I do play as him.

The Minecraft stage is fantastic. I love playing on it & I love how there’s several variations of it. I had previously said that Dragon Quest had the most pathetic music representation in the game, but I take that back. Minecraft absolutely does. The only track I like is Halland, the rest is really boring & forgettable. It’s a shame that we couldn’t get any of Minecraft’s real music; it has so many good songs & I’ve heard some banging fanmade “Smashified” remixes of those songs on YouTube.

 

[subterrestrial]

Minecraft was a big part of my childhood and Steve has been one of my MW since the sm4sh days so seeing him actually join the roster was so surreal. I knew it was only a matter of time due to how big Minecraft is worldwide but I thought I was gonna have to wait until smash 6 or 7 lmao I was fully convinced the Banjo:Steve dichotomy was real but im glad I was wrong. also the rampant Steveposting and Grotesque Steve was hilarious. ngl im really glad they didnt 'smashify" him in-game because the ripped straight out of Minecraft look and stiff animations are perfect for him. anything else would've just looked uncanny and creepy like grotesque steve

Despite the seemingly infinite moveset potential a Minecraft character would offer, I always thought they would make his moveset sum Villager **** due to the sm4sh design philosophy at the time. Again im glad I was wrong because he was luckily ult dlc and got the special dlc privilege treatment with the TNT, Flint & Steel, Elytra, a Projectile Command Grab (lmfao), and the block placing mechanic I've always dreamed of. ima big fan of the resource management thing too I also enjoy playing Hero regularly. But playing Steve truly feels like a sandbox game you can rly get creative mid match and no two matches with him are ever the same due to his infinite block mixups. ALSO teching off a block to punish a move on hit is SO ridiculous, I've literally killed people for correctly landing their attacks lmao. Plus don't even get me started on aerial smash attacks. AND the Steve tech rabbit hole is so deep, people still discover new tech in the discord to this day. Honestly Steve is the only broken FP2 char I'm a fan of because I actually play him, trust me tho theyre all broken.

Zombie, Enderman, and Alex were all great additions as skins but I really hope they get their own unique moveset in smash 6; especially the last 2. Alex could have different specials based on other Minecraft stuff like magic, tridents, gardening, summoning mobs etc. And fully grown Enderman also has vast moveset potential.

(btw Steve is 100% returning in the next smash game)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Steve I think is the perfect example of how Smash character design has changed. Looking at Samus and Yoshi for example, you can see the inspiration but they play much differently from how they play in their own games. Super Metroid Samus wouldn't have to stand in place to charge a shot and her morphball is a vital part of her kit instead of being justification for a terrible roll and IMO one of the worst down specials in the game and Yoshi's a bulky heavyweight hwo has trouble recovering, which is ironic given his games are known for mashing the jump button to gain that last bit of height.

Steve on the other hand, they rebuilt the stages just to make sure his new skills work. He can reshape the stage as he goes, he can craft new weapons and heck, he can even put together traps which is totally a Minecraft combat move.

 

[SKX31]

Okay, so . 5 years of negotiating. Endless arguments between B-K and Steve fans. Vergeben's whole shebang about Minecraft content.

Punching stage gives me wood - and other materials. (And he's celebrating his Smash anniversary today!)

Steve and his group need no real introduction - I mean, it's Minecraft. Just as their road to Smash was incredibly thorny and difficult - what with all the negotiations, needing to redesign all the stages etc., their pre-reveal opinions were harshly divided and the road to their reveal was marked with a lot of questions. But yet, their October 2020 reveal caught a lot of people off guard: Not least since it came right as Steve was seemingly stuck in limbo. Well, Sonic punched Mario to the Minecraft verse (somehow) and the rest is as they say history.

Steve players has amassed quite a few notable results, even if Smashers were very divided on how effective he is for months on end. His most prominent players are probably Jake and Yonni: both of them have begun to place pretty damn well in bigger tournaments, with those two frequently challenging the bigger names and inching their way closer to more impressive placements. Yonni was just one game away from top 8 placement at a supermajor. Alongside more regional-level Steve mains, Jake and Yonni have helped cement Steve as a very effective character in most peoples' minds and gotten others more optimistic on Steve's abilities as of late.

Since Steve has his unique resource mechanic as well as weapon upgrades the Specials are vital to his gameplay. Neutral B does three different things depending on context: Mine, Craft and Create Block (I can't wait until Minecraft: Create Block edition comes out ) . Mine is relatively straightforward: sure, Steve starts every Smash match with 36 units of dirt, 18 units of wood, 3 units of iron and 2/3 redstone , the latter two of which are replenished should Steve lose a life without sufficient said material in stock. But he's gotta get more stuff somewhere. Oh and several moves do cost resources, so resource management is one of - if not the most important - thing Steve has to worry about. Resources are also gathered at stage-dependent rates, even as Battlefield and Omega stages have standardized rates. Luckily for Steve Gold and Diamond are "once you get them you have them until you craft them" resources. Craft is turning those resources into weaponry, and all his weapons get upgraded to the strongest material in Steve's hand. The damage per material is here:

• No weapon: 0.8x damage
• Wood or gold: 1.0x damage
• Stone: 1.1x damage
• Iron: 1.2x damage
• Diamond: 1.35x damage

One major reason why Diamond's so coveted. A 35 % damage increase is no joke. Gotta use the strongest tools while they last. There's another reason why it's so coveted: Steve's Durability system. Like Robin, Steve's sword, axe, pickaxe and shovel will lose durability points on each use. And when that reaches 0, the tool in question breaks apart. Thing is, Iron and Diamond have the highest durability. So yeah, get the strongest tools you can get (most of the time). Gold is a good emergency option since it improves Steve's frame data, but has low durability and relatively weak attack power.

So what are we gonna do with all of that dirt? Create Blocks! Steve can just decide to temporarily terraform the stage by placing blocks of materials in the air. No more than 8 blocks per Steve can be on screen at the same time, and they only last for a short while (especially if touched or attacked) - but the Blocks are very useful for multiple purposes. Such as barrier-creating, combo-extending or sending the rudest message to the opponent. The blocks do use up the lowest-cost material on Steve's hand - which can be a bit of a problem if Steve lacks enough Dirt or Wood, since he'd rather use Iron or other materials for, you know, other moves.

His other Specials (yeesh, I'm only just now done with Neutral B?) have quite a lot of utility. Minecart has befuddled countless opponents - for just a piece of iron and maybe a little redstone Steve sends out a Minecart that he can ride on as a burst option, or leave it and let opponents taste the wonkiest command grab in the game. It's in fact so good as a burst option regardless of skill level that opponents better be ready to see at least 5 minecarts tossed at them each stock. It also is a great recovery option, though it requires gold to gain good distance. Elytra is the return of Brawl's Glide mechanic (only with not much if any ability to gain vertical height unless carefully managed) - it has excellent horizontal recovery potential and as a bonus its hitbox makes it a good escape option. TNT is the "Luxury Weapon" Steve has - while it costs quite a lot to use (this uses up 50 "points" of resources, with each resource giving incrementally bigger points (dirt = 2, wood/stone = 5, iron = 10) ) it's immensely powerful, covers ledge scenarios extremely well and Steve can exploit both these aspects further by Down Smashing or even mining the TNT for those rare resources. No, Down Smashing the TNT does not hurt Steve if the Steve buffers shield right after the Down Smash.

Steve's normal attacks gain a lot of power from the mining and crafting, due to the above damage multipliers and durability. He has Mega Man's and Min Min's "Jab while Running / Jumping" mechanic, which gives his Jab its own flair. It's excellent at just pestering opponents - even though it can't lock unlike most other jabs. Up Tilt / Up Air are excellent anti-airs and combo starters / extenders: notably Up Air is as fast as 's infamous Up Air (with Gold it's even faster!). Down Tilt is a solid defensive option that also does a great job edgeguarding. His Smash attacks are usually very committal, but very powerful in their own ways - F-Smash for example has deceptively long range. F-Air is a solid spike, while B-Air is a slow but powerful - the Diamond variant makes it one of the strongest B-Airs in the game. D-Air and D-Throw summons an anvil: in the former case it's one of the most versatile stall-then-falls since Steve can decide to ride it or not (oh and mine it too), while D-Throw is a good combo starter.

Steve's weaknesses are however worth noting. Due to the above Steve's subject to an inevitable ebb-and-flow: periods when he's very strong and just ready to go with the Diamond weapons, alongside periods when he's without good weapons and need to play extensive keepaway. He really doesn't want to play with a 20 % penalty to his damage. As such Steve players have to be very careful around pressure - his reach is not the greatest. His movement stats are extremely underwhelming compared to the rest of the cast. It not only limits his advantage state some but also - combined with his lack of a traditional projectile - makes him have to get creative vs. most zoners. Getting KOed means that Steve's tools will revert to wood : he can save Gold and Diamond for the next stock, but getting KOed still is a pretty thing for him since he has to use his respawn invinciibility to craft. Careless use of his resources can render specific moves like D-Air ineffective until he can get iron back.

Casually Steve is a very volatile character, and really likes larger stages more than most. Not just since larger stages allow him more space to do stuff, but also since Steve does not like people ganging up on him when he has weak weaponry or few dirt / wood blocks. Still, he does have some moves that can clear the way for him (D-Tilt, D-Smash / U-Smash), but it's much easier for him when he has a lot of reserves. This ebb and flow relates to item play too - he doesn't have the movement stats to contest say Sonic on foot, but can deny a lot of stage control and effectively ensure he gets to an item first.

As for Steve's Challenger Pack, it's good overall. Minecraft World brings with it neat background cameos and interesting differences in its biome variants. The music is good, although only 7 tracks - I have to presume mainly licensing issues (although pace issues can be a factor too). The Spirits are likewise a good representation of Minecraft, no real complaints there.

All in all, Steve is a character who hews very close to Minecraft, and whose impact cannot be overstated. He and the other members of the Minecraft gang (Alex, Zombie, Enderman) join the game by giving no ****s, and he's a very effective character overall. I'm happy he's here.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Prominent Steve mains like Yonni hate the Hero matchup since Hero gains more out of his buffs than Steve does via crafting. So Yonni has resorted to some advanced camping: )

I did it, I solved the hero mu. pic.twitter.com/QE80ccHfbV

— Yonni (@FrYonni) April 1, 2021

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I like Minecraft. I agree that it is an important game within the halls of video game history. I understand completely why Steve was included in Smash.

And I hate it with a passion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like Minecraft. I agree that it is an important game within the halls of video game history. I understand completely why Steve was included in Smash.

And I hate it with a passion.

I'm curious, as you said, you like the game, so why do you dislike Steve's addition?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Steve is one of those characters that work perfectly in theory and satisfies the speculator part in me because Minecraft big deal blahblah but then he’s also mighty unplayable as Steve becomes a 2D Fighting Minecraft Simulator rather than a Smash character. Which is fine, he holds up in theory and it really shows how far Smash movesets can go and the moveset theorist in me absolutely adores it. In practice though, he’s just very much benched which is a shame because I like Minecraft itself more than other series introduced in Smash DLC

 

[Stepheon]

I remember when Steve/Alex were revealed. I wasn’t hyped over it, but I understood why they were chosen. Minecraft is massive. I was just like “Hmm. Okay.”

With the final reveal on the horizon, and it light of recent leaks, I am trying to temper expectations and excitement. I know leaks, especially from 4chan, are hardly ever legitimate, but I know others have been in the past. I have wanted Sora in Super Smash Bros since the days of Brawl.

Do I think he will be revealed on Tuesday? I am almost certain he will not be. Which is rather disappointing, but it’s what I’m expecting honestly. Do I want to be pleasantly surprised? Absolutely. I would be over the moon.

I am fully preparing myself for a Pokémon, Waluigi, Jonesy, Master Chief, or Crash Bandicoot reveal. Leaning more so on the side of the character being 1st Party.

That being said, I’ve been seeing things said about Sora’s potential inclusion that make me raise an eyebrow. Just some of the justifications and straw grasping I have seen at arguments against his inclusion. It seems a lot of people that don’t want him in have a very limited knowledge of the character, and Kingdom Hearts games in general.

My biggest “headtilt-question-mark” argument I’ve seen is that Sora will be a Mii costume, and that’s why the music is being requested. The leaks states “tracks” however, and to my knowledge, Mii costumes come with a track at best, not several of them. I am fully aware of the possibility of this being the case, but I feel like if Sora was going to be relegated to a Mii Costume, it would have been revealed along side Sephiroth’s reveal. That would’ve been the optimal timing for it.

Maybe I’m bias, but I’m trying to be as realistic yet optimistic as I can.

 

[---]

Updated the poll. This time favorite Vol. 2 Stages. A bit straight forward again, so I will try to make things more interesting for the remaining polls after this. Threw in Small Battlefield just for the heck of it and for those who might be tired of seeing Pokemon Stadium 2 non-stop in competitive play.

Sephiroth won in a landslide, though I think he's the least I've seen played as of late in competitive play. Even if you add both Pyra/Mythra together, their votes didn't beat out Steve who came in second. Min Min came in last, so I wish all of you who survive Ramen Tengoku 's wrath a happy Friday.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Man I hate this stage poll lmao, Minecraft World, Northern Crater and Mishima Dojo are all ****ing fantastic to me and I genuinely can't choose

 

[ForsakenM]

Self-realization that no one cares about but it's about Smash so...

I've often talked about how Geno is my top pick and that those I want other than him (of which there aren't many) like Waluigi, Spyro or to a much lesser extent Sora...it's almost unfair to put them in my top 3 or top 5 because I want Geno so much more than them it's more like having a top 10 and Geno being at the top and either Geno repeating or just blank up until you get to like #7 or so, and even that doesn't really represent the gap well enough either.

Welp, I finally found a #2 pick, something that I want almost as much as Geno: any character from Skullgirls at all, period, although my biases lie with Big Band, Peacock and Beowulf.

If anyone even pays attention to this post, something tells me that I may easily get some flack for wanting another fighting game character in Smash, but hear me out: not only is that NOT a bad thing as it opens more doors between the FGC and Smash players, but...well, frankly, I don't care! My love for this game transcends any hate I might get for wanting it to achieve greater heights.

There is nothing about Skullgirls that I dislike, not even remotely. From the art direction and style, to the characters, to the voice acting, to the lore...the mechanics, the gameplay options, the music (oh my GOD the music!)...everything about this game speaks to the cells of my body on a level I haven't found since playing SMRPG. For a game that originally dropped in 2012 and has faced as many hardships and deep wounds from fate as it has, I would become an ABSOLUTE MESS if any of the characters got into Smash at any point. The chances are extremely low of course, but man would that be awesome to see after all this time now that the game is FINALLY getting at least a little of the recognition it deserved.

First off, seeing a character from Skullgirls transition into a game like Smash would be a sight to behold, as Skullgirls is a 2D Fighter. I can only imagine how amazing a 3D model of any of these characters would look with the love of Sakurai and his dev team working with...checks notes Hidden Variables and Future Club. They are all super passionate about the game (I mean, after latest fallout of last year, they worked together and sold precious items to be able to get everything back together. This is something many of the devs are know for) and I know that it would turn out incredible. As far as what character they would pick, I think Peacock has the best shot from my list of personal wants, but I think Fillia as the mascot/poster girl would have the highest chance of getting in. My most wanted would be Big Band as I love him and his VA to death.

Spoiler: Character Art

Fillia

Peacock

Big Band

Beowulf

As far as a stage, that one may be hard in terms of picking a one. There are many good options, but there isn't really one single stage that represents ALL of Skullgirls. Little Innsmouth or Streets of New Meridian are pretty good choices, however one of the newer stages coming called Boardwalk seems like a pretty decent choice as well. In addition you could pick River King Casino or Rooftops Assault, but outside of that we start to have stages that start speaking for specific characters. I think the best overall choice is the Grand Cathedral: the majority of the original character stories (if not all of them) end up meeting here and it is a place of major importance for the majority of the cast in terms of the lore, and since Final Atrium is a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't played and is a BIT intense in it's color palette, I think Grand Cathedral holds up the best in these terms.

Spoiler: Stages

Grand Cathedral

Little Innsmouth (Day Version wouldn't load)

Streets of New Meridian

As for music...HOOOOOO BOY! Take your pick, hell, pick them ALL! Skullgirls doesn't have bad music and much of it wouldn't need remixed or wouldn't need much of one, being from a fighting game. Now it CAN be a bit slower in some regards, as the music in Skullgirls sounds like Castlevania meets Marvel vs Capcom 2 (and there is good reason for that) but much like any game there are music tracks that could easily just be ported over and they would work (RIP Pigstep) and Skullgirls is full of them. I'll just leave a "small" sampling, but I would very much look forward to any remixes that did happen, and would expect something similar to B&K where the intro ('The Legend of the Skull Heart') to Skullgirls gets a remix that incorporates bits of other songs but hits hard and fast, only to have it transition into the final boss theme ('Skull Heart Arrhythmia') or a remix of the character select theme ('Pick of the Litter') or maybe making both of Beowulf's stage themes into one ('The Crowd Goes Wild' and 'The Crowd Goes Home'). Lord help me if Yoko got her hands on Unfinished Business...

Anyway, here is a list incorporating songs popular with the Skullgirls community from OG 2012 Skullgirls as well as a couple tracks from their DLC endeavors, in order from older to more recent. There are MANY more than what is here, including ones that are in fact stage themes that play for battle, but many are for story moments that wouldn't fit in Smash without a remix of some sort and some of the stage music is a bit more peaceful and lacks the intensity that I think Sakurai tries to look for. On the other hand, some of them are almost too intense, or intense in a different way, which would either mean they are given a pass or a remix.

Spoiler: Skullgirls OST

Yeah, there is a lot there, but like I said there is MUCH more and this is only a handful of which I selected trying to place my mind in the dev seat as opposed to being a fan...I would have just linked the whole playlist otherwise! Maybe I should have done that anyway, but not sure how Smashboards likes playlists...whatever.

There are plenty of playable and non-playable characters who can get spirits in the game, and every classic mode is just making lots of references so I don't need to go into that.

Now, Skullgirls has three major hurdles, and two of them are their art direction. Firstly, most of the roster is female and many of the characters can easily fall into a Mai Shiranui category of being too sexy and their design core being about that. I mean, just looking at Cerebella and Valentine tell you enough of that story, and Valentine herself has CLEAR Mai Shiranui inspiration, but Miss Fortune has clear underboob and Eliza is rocking that sexy-Egyptian look. On top of this, even the not-so-sexualized character have some moves that sexualize them either in their movement of themselves or their clothing, so the choices would likely drop down to those who are the least sexualized in core design and those who could easily be censored without too heavy a loss. This is why I think Peacock has a real chance as she is the third character for the game and is a child and is very much not sexualized in design at all, but I think Fillia being the poster girl and being fairly easy to censor (less bouncing, cover her small midriff, no panty shots and maybe completely cover her legs) would still win out overall.

Skullgirls is also very ****ing dark. Fillia has a parasite who's mouth is out the back of her head, Peacock was a child butchered by the Medici mafia and rebuilt into a weapon in a lab, Painwheel's spine is part of her flight mechanic and she constantly feels pain, Miss Fortune attacks with her body parts coming off and she also got butchered but lived...Jesus, Double literally flips herself completely inside out before fighting. That's just the base game too: Squigly is a zombie girl who's parasite is a snake that lives inside her skull, my boy Big Band is basically RoboCop but if he was rebuilt with musical instruments, and Eliza's whole skeleton comes out as a parasite to fight AND she fights with her own blood! Considering how much of a 'good boys and girls game' Smash is supposed to be, these two hurdles are probably the biggest to overcome.

The last one is that, unfortunately, fate made it so Skullgirls just isn't a big game that has lots of demand. Other fighting games like Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Under Night In-Birth are all bigger and more popular, and now Melty Blood is making a big comeback as well. Street Fighter, Fatal Fury/King of Fighters and Tekken all got characters in and they are some of the biggest names out there, so it's much more likely that a franchise on their level would get a character long before Skullgirls, and these three could easily get another character in with how big and iconic they are. Maybe not within my lifetime, or ever perhaps, but one can dream.

Thank you for coming to my Skullgirls gushing session!

EDIT: Grand Cathedral messed up, fixed that, added a gif of Beowulf being himself.
EDIT2: Added link to gif of Double doing her thing that you can click on to see if you think that's a good idea.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

My thoughts on Steve

He's an important character for sure and an absolute gaming icon that does deserve to be in which is at least that, but I've never played Minecraft and I am not the target audience so while I can respect his inclusion a lot, I don't care for him myself. Also he's really lame to play against and watch and he doesn't really fit my playstyle.

Yeah I was pretty upset at the direction the pass was heading in once Byleth started, I didn't really like any of the FP2 characters until happened.

 

[PSIGuy]

Not that I think Nahobino is the last fighter, but
Snippet of an SMTV interview

It was around 2016, I believe, when I designed the main character of this game. Originally, we planned to release the game around the Olympic year [2020]. so we could predict the growing interest in Japan worldwide.

People have used "SMTV isn't out yet" as an argument against Nahobino, but I think that changes if Nintendo and Atlus originally assumed it would release smoothly in 2020 when they were finalizing details for Fighter Pass 2. A 2020 release would've given Sakurai plenty of time to play it and work on a character meant for release by the end of 2021. It's a similar scenario to Three Houses, which went from 2018 to 2019.

So I guess the topic I want to raise here is, how would a game intended for Smash promotion being delayed affect the fighter pack?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I remember when Steve/Alex were revealed. I wasn’t hyped over it, but I understood why they were chosen. Minecraft is massive. I was just like “Hmm. Okay.”

With the final reveal on the horizon, and it light of recent leaks, I am trying to temper expectations and excitement. I know leaks, especially from 4chan, are hardly ever legitimate, but I know others have been in the past. I have wanted Sora in Super Smash Bros since the days of Brawl.

Do I think he will be revealed on Tuesday? I am almost certain he will not be. Which is rather disappointing, but it’s what I’m expecting honestly. Do I want to be pleasantly surprised? Absolutely. I would be over the moon.

I am fully preparing myself for a Pokémon, Waluigi, Jonesy, Master Chief, or Crash Bandicoot reveal. Leaning more so on the side of the character being 1st Party.

That being said, I’ve been seeing things said about Sora’s potential inclusion that make me raise an eyebrow. Just some of the justifications and straw grasping I have seen at arguments against his inclusion. It seems a lot of people that don’t want him in have a very limited knowledge of the character, and Kingdom Hearts games in general.

My biggest “headtilt-question-mark” argument I’ve seen is that Sora will be a Mii costume, and that’s why the music is being requested. The leaks states “tracks” however, and to my knowledge, Mii costumes come with a track at best, not several of them. I am fully aware of the possibility of this being the case, but I feel like if Sora was going to be relegated to a Mii Costume, it would have been revealed along side Sephiroth’s reveal. That would’ve been the optimal timing for it.

Maybe I’m bias, but I’m trying to be as realistic yet optimistic as I can.

Requesting “tracks” plural doesn’t mesh well with a Mii Costume, but the music was alledgedly specifically requested for the presentation. If Sora was Challenger 11, it’d make more sense for the music to be requested for, yknow, the game. The tracks wouldn’t be requested for a Cuphead-type deal, but just for the three seconds of showcase that the Mii Costume gets in the presentation itself (Like how Forest Mushrooms played when Geno Mii showed up) It’s then possible Nintendo requested multiple tracks for the presentation so they could see which one fit best.

Most likely scenario is that the leak is fake though.

Self-realization that no one cares about but it's about Smash so...

I've often talked about how Geno is my top pick and that those I want other than him (of which there aren't many) like Waluigi, Spyro or to a much lesser extent Sora...it's almost unfair to put them in my top 3 or top 5 because I want Geno so much more than them it's more like having a top 10 and Geno being at the top and either Geno repeating or just blank up until you get to like #7 or so, and even that doesn't really represent the gap well enough either.

Welp, I finally found a #2 pick, something that I want almost as much as Geno: any character from Skullgirls at all, period, although my biases lie with Big Band, Peacock and Beowulf.

If anyone even pays attention to this post, something tells me that I may easily get some flack for wanting another fighting game character in Smash, but hear me out: not only is that NOT a bad thing as it opens more doors between the FGC and Smash players, but...well, frankly, I don't care! My love for this game transcends any hate I might get for wanting it to achieve greater heights.

There is nothing about Skullgirls that I dislike, not even remotely. From the art direction and style, to the characters, to the voice acting, to the lore...the mechanics, the gameplay options, the music (oh my GOD the music!)...everything about this game speaks to the cells of my body on a level I haven't found since playing SMRPG. For a game that originally dropped in 2012 and has faced as many hardships and deep wounds from fate as it has, I would become an ABSOLUTE MESS if any of the characters got into Smash at any point. The chances are extremely low of course, but man would that be awesome to see after all this time now that the game is FINALLY getting at least a little of the recognition it deserved.

First off, seeing a character from Skullgirls transition into a game like Smash would be a sight to behold, as Skullgirls is a 2D Fighter. I can only imagine how amazing a 3D model of any of these characters would look with the love of Sakurai and his dev team working with...checks notes Hidden Variables and Future Club. They are all super passionate about the game (I mean, after latest fallout of last year, they worked together and sold precious items to be able to get everything back together. This is something many of the devs are know for) and I know that it would turn out incredible. As far as what character they would pick, I think Peacock has the best shot from my list of personal wants, but I think Fillia as the mascot/poster girl would have the highest chance of getting in. My most wanted would be Big Band as I love him and his VA to death.

Spoiler: Character Art

Fillia

Peacock

Big Band

As far as a stage, that one may be hard in terms of picking a one. There are many good options, but there isn't really one single stage that represents ALL of Skullgirls. Little Innsmouth or Streets of New Meridian are pretty good choices, however one of the newer stages coming called Boardwalk seems like a pretty decent choice as well. In addition you could pick River King Casino or Rooftops Assault, but outside of that we start to have stages that start speaking for specific characters. I think the best overall choice is the Grand Cathedral: the majority of the original character stories (if not all of them) end up meeting here and it is a place of major importance for the majority of the cast in terms of the lore, and since Final Atrium is a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't played and is a BIT intense in it's color palette, I think Grand Cathedral holds up the best in these terms.

Spoiler: Stages

View attachment 332319
Grand Cathedral
View attachment 332321
Little Innsmouth (Day Version wouldn't load)
View attachment 332322
Streets of New Meridian

As for music...HOOOOOO BOY! Take your pick, hell, pick them ALL! Skullgirls doesn't have bad music and much of it wouldn't need remixed or wouldn't need much of one, being from a fighting game. Now it CAN be a bit slower in some regards, as the music in Skullgirls sounds like Castlevania meets Marvel vs Capcom 2 (and there is good reason for that) but much like any game there are music tracks that could easily just be ported over and they would work (RIP Pigstep) and Skullgirls is full of them. I'll just leave a "small" sampling, but I would very much look forward to and remixes that did happen, and would expect something similar to B&K where the intro ('The Legend of the Skull Heart') to Skullgirls gets a remix that incorporates bits of other songs but hits hard and fast, only to have it transition into the final boss theme ('Skull Heart Arrhythmia') or a remix of the character select theme ('Pick of the Litter') or maybe making both of Beowulf's stage themes into one ('The Crowd Goes Wild' and 'The Crowd Goes Home'). Lord help me if Yoko got her hands on Unfinished Business...

Anyway, here is a list incorporating songs popular with the Skullgirls community from OG 2012 Skullgirls as well as a couple tracks from their DLC endeavors, in order from older to more recent. There are MANY more than what is here, including ones that are in fact stage themes that play for battle, but many are for story moments that wouldn't fit in Smash without a remix of some sort and some of the stage music is a bit more peaceful and lacks the intensity that I think Sakurai tries to look for. On the other hand, some of them are almost too intense, or intense in a different way, which would either mean they are given a pass or a remix.

Spoiler: Skullgirls OST

Yeah, there is a lot there, but like I said there is MUCH more and this is only a handful of which I selected trying to place my mind in the dev seat as opposed to being a fan...I would have just linked the whole playlist otherwise! Maybe I should have done that anyway, but not sure how Smashboards likes playlists...whatever.

There are plenty of playable and non-playable characters who can get spirits in the game, and every classic mode is just making lots of references so I don't need to go into that.

Now, Skullgirls has three major hurdles, and two of them are their art direction. Firstly, most of the roster is female and many of the characters can easily fall into a Mai Shiranui category of being too sexy and their design core being about that. I mean, just looking at Cerebella and Valentine tell you enough of that story, and Valentine herself has CLEAR Mai Shiranui inspiration, but Miss Fortune has clear underboob and Eliza is rocking that sexy-Egyptian look. On top of this, even the not-so-sexualized character have some moves that sexualize them either in their movement of themselves or their clothing, so the choices would likely drop down to those who are the least sexualized in core design and those who could easily be censored without too heavy a loss. This is why I think Peacock has a real chance as she is the third character for the game and is a child and is very much not sexualized in design at all, but I think Fillia being the poster girl and being fairly easy to censor (less bouncing, cover her small midriff, no panty shots and maybe completely cover her legs) would still win out overall.

Skullgirls is also very ****ing dark. Fillia has a parasite who's mouth is out the back of her head, Peacock was a child butchered by the Medici mafia and rebuilt into a weapon in a lab, Painwheel's spine is part of her flight mechanic and she constantly feels pain, Miss Fortune attacks with her body parts coming off and she also got butchered but lived...Jesus, Double literally flips herself completely inside out before fighting. That's just the base game too: Squigly is a zombie girl who's parasite is a snake that lives inside her skull, my boy Big Band is basically RoboCop but if he was rebuilt with musical instruments, and Eliza's whole skeleton comes out as a parasite to fight AND she fights with her own blood! Considering how much of a 'good boys and girls game' Smash is supposed to be, these two hurdles are probably the biggest to overcome.

The last one is that, unfortunately, fate made it so Skullgirls just isn't a big game that has lots of demand. Other fighting games like Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Under Night In-Birth are all bigger and more popular, and now Melty Blood is making a big comeback as well. Street Fighter, Fatal Fury/King of Fighters and Tekken all got characters in and they are some of the biggest names out there, so it's much more likely that a franchise on their level would get a character long before Skullgirls, and these three could easily get another character in with how big and iconic they are. Maybe not within my lifetime, or ever perhaps, but one can dream.

Thank you for coming to my Skullgirls gushing session!

i ain’t reading all that
im happy for you
or sorry that happened

EDIT: i did read it, amazing job and im now super on board with someone from skullgirls joining!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Man I hate this stage poll lmao, Minecraft World, Northern Crater and Mishima Dojo are all ****ing fantastic to me and I genuinely can't choose

I chose Northern Crater specifically because One-Winged Angel can be played.

 

[Dinoman96]

How fitting is today that we're retrospecting on Steve considering that today, it's his one year anniversary of being revealed for Smash.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Oh boy it's Steve day.

I like Minecraft but I don't like Steve. I think he is just the stupidest looking character because he's pretty much a bunch of boxes put together. The whole grotesque Steve arc soured my opinion of him further, I don't like how his block placements can essentially block recoveries from happening and it's just as bad as I thought it'd be. His reveal trailer was boring, he's stiff to control and I just don't like the way he looks. Stupid character, good moveset other than the block placing but stupid character. I'm just glad Banjo & Kazooie got here first.

 

[Stepheon]

Requesting “tracks” plural doesn’t mesh well with a Mii Costume, but the music was alledgedly specifically requested for the presentation. If Sora was Challenger 11, it’d make more sense for the music to be requested for, yknow, the game. The tracks wouldn’t be requested for a Cuphead-type deal, but just for the three seconds of showcase that the Mii Costume gets in the presentation itself (Like how Forest Mushrooms played when Geno Mii showed up) It’s then possible Nintendo requested multiple tracks for the presentation so they could see which one fit best.

Most likely scenario is that the leak is fake though.

That may be the case, but in that same vain, they used music in Hero’s reveal trailer that is not present in Ultimate’s music selection for him, yet he was Challenger Pack 2. I don’t see the logic behind acquiring the rights to several tracks in order to showcase what, at best, will be a 5-10 second showcase of a Mii Costume for Sora. If that’s the case, acquire the rights to the orchestrated version of Simple & Clean or Dearly Beloved. Something quintessentially Kingdom Hearts that even a casual fan of the series would notice.

However, I agree the leak is most likely fake. I do find it impressive the leaker hit the nail on the head with the October 5th date. I want it to be real, but I’m tempering myself for fate’s design.

 

[Dinoman96]

One of the most interesting things about the old Banjo vs. Steve debates from 2018-2019 was that in a lot of ways, it was a microsm of the debates within the Smash community on what celebration mattered more for Smash: Nintendo History (Banjo-Kazooie) or Gaming History (Minecraft)?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I will say, the one major flaw with Minecraft representation in Smash is that the music choices are... Well they're not bad choices and the remixes are great but where's the base game soundtrack? I know it's plenty mellow but that didn't effect other tracks in the game.

I suspect a licencing deal fell through somewhere down the line.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

One of the most interesting things about the old Banjo vs. Steve debates from 2018-2019 was that in a lot of ways, it was a microsm of the debates within the Smash community on what celebration mattered more for Smash: Nintendo History (Banjo-Kazooie) or Gaming History (Minecraft)?

Plus it was a debate on the value of seniority and whose nostalgia holds the most weight

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

I'll be honest, Steve was my least wanted newcomer in Smash, so when I saw Mario going through the blocks, I cringed. It was mostly because I've never played Minecraft and I don't have any desire to play it. So there's nothing for me to connect to. I also didn't think his blocky animations would work in Smash.

That being said, it's not -that- bad. Sakurai's team actually did a great job with the moveset and although it still looks funny, it's not any more out of place than Game and Watch is. I appreciate the effort it took to get him to work. I can also understand the appeal, as Minecraft is just a gigantic franchise now and it totally makes sense to have him now.

Buuuut I really can't get the hang of his moveset, so I'm not a fan of playing him. Playing against him as Hero should be a good match-up but often times Steve just doesn't let me play, and it's damn annoying. I think plenty others have this problem as well.

 

[Schnee117]

Steve's a great addition even if the moveset was never gonna gel with me but the sheer effort put in is astounding, they really did not have to go that far with him at all but they did and it turned out really well. I love the stage having several different biomes to it and I like that they even included Zombie and Enderman alts. I think my only issue is the lack of music, particularly from Minecraft itself, but what we did get is excellent.

Choosing a favourite stage is hard.
Minecraft World is really fun and there's the previously mentioned biomes.
Northern Cave is a fantastic layout and I love the background story being the end of FF7 with the Jenova fight, the Highiwind escape and the Meteor on top of some excellent music

But I gotta go for Mishima Dojo, it's just a really cool aesthetic and I love the wall break mechanic. There's an abundance of music tracks to choose from and there's plenty of bangers in there, including some Go Shiina greatness which is what only just slightly makes it beat out Northern Cave for me

 

[Dinoman96]

Steve will always be neat because he's our first "true" western character in Smash.

Yes, beforehand we've had , but those characters have special asterisks surrounding them: the first three are fully owned by Nintendo and were made for Nintendo franchises originally born in Japan, and Banjo-Kazooie, while technically the first western owned third party in Smash, also have the special asterisks of previously being a co-owned Nintendo IP, which makes it not that far removed from games like Donkey Kong Country and Metroid Prime.

Steve is kinda special because he's the first western designed character in Smash with no special/deep history with Nintendo. The only asterisks he really has is, well, he comes from the best selling game of all time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Steve is one of my favorite additions. Sure, I can't really work with the character, but I'm glad he's in~

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I'm curious, as you said, you like the game, so why do you dislike Steve's addition?

I don’t like the over-saturation of third party properties. And Minecraft isn’t really significant to Nintendo history like Megaman or even Sonic (as the rival) - like, I don’t think “Nintendo!” When you say Minecraft. To me it feels like adding Minecraft is just an attempt to advertise to a different grouping of gamers, like smash needs the advertising. Smash is already hype. Granted, business wise I get it. But as an avid fan of Nintendo history - Steve’s addition is lame.

 

[SneakyLink]

Of all the Pass 2 characters, Steve was my most wanted. Before being revealed, I feared the Smash team would animate his limbs more or change the art to fit Smash more. I’m glad that didn’t happen and he is one of my favorites to play and watch.

Stage is nice and music is bouncy and vibrant.

 

[SNEKeater]

Not that I think Nahobino is the last fighter, but
Snippet of an SMTV interview


People have used "SMTV isn't out yet" as an argument against Nahobino, but I think that changes if Nintendo and Atlus originally assumed it would release smoothly in 2020 when they were finalizing details for Fighter Pass 2. A 2020 release would've given Sakurai plenty of time to play it and work on a character meant for release by the end of 2021. It's a similar scenario to Three Houses, which went from 2018 to 2019.

So I guess the topic I want to raise here is, how would a game intended for Smash promotion being delayed affect the fighter pack?

I mean I was already on the boat of thinking Nahobino as CP11 would require certain things to properly align, so it would be hard but not entirely impossible. After Doi's interview and him saying he designed the protagonist back in 2016 and that the game was planned for 2020, I'm quite convinced these 2 things aren't a problem for a potential inclusion.

I still think he's really unlikely to be the last DLC though.

 

[Staarih]

The thing I vividly remember about Steve is this hint right before the presentation:

fwiw, I think people will be excited by this. It's not a first party character for once.

Kind of weird that no data miners picked it up tho.

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) October 1, 2020

Someone went "Steve?" and that connected the dots to me ("data miner") and I was like, yup, it's gotta be him. And it was.

I've never played Minecraft but knew it was big (on Nintendo consoles too) and kinda felt Steve was a natural inclusion because of this. He does stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of the crew though, visually I mean, but I guess there's only so much "smashifying" you can do to a... block. I really like his play style even if it takes a while to get used to.